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What Does the Bible Really Teach?


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1 hour ago, Dwayne Reed said:

Shiwii,

Were you ever one of Jehovah's Witnesses?

 

What revelance does that have on the topic? The Bible is our guide, right?  So our answers must come from the Bible and nothing else,  because that is the only inspired word of God.  

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Kurt....I personally want to thank you for your honest and open opinion of the publication....WHAT DOES THE BIBLE TEACH?.and Yes, I am one of Jehovahs Witnesses. You are so right that this book gives

Actually, Hebrews 13:8 says, "Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever."  That has another to do with whether he had a beginning or not. Jesus did not become the way to salvation until

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2 hours ago, Dwayne Reed said:

Just wanted to see if could simply answer a yes or no question with a yes or no answer.

I cannot determine if your reply is a yes or no.

No, you are trying to get away from the topic because you have no Biblical support for your belief. That's fine, I just won't follow you into the rabbit hole.

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Sorry to rile you, but you are assuming way too much. Asking a side question and you answering yes or no does not take us away from the topic. The topic is still here.

What you have failed to see in all of this is that the Thousand Year Reign is when all of these things described at Revelation chapter 20 occur.

You have not explained away my reply regarding the "last day." If the resurrection does not occur during Christ's Thousand Year Reign, then Jesus will not have accomplished what his rule is designed to do, before he hands it back to his God and Father. (1 Cor. 15:27, 28) The last enemy death will not have been brought to nothing(1 Cor. 15:25, 26) if the physical resurrection has not occurred. 

Your misunderstanding of my reference to "come to life" as symbolic does not explain away that the purpose of the Thousand Year Reign is to restore what Adam lost - perfect human life for all faithful humans. 

The Thousand Year Reign serves no purpose if everyone that can have the possibility of perfect human life on a restored earthly paradise are not present to be judged. This will require that the dead "who practiced vile things" be resurrected, as John 5:29 reveals, in order to be judged during the Thousand Year Reign.

You want to see a Scripture that says, in black & white, 'The resurrection will occur during the Thousand Year Reign." But it is only evident by an ability to reason with soundness of mind and considering everything the Bible has to say on the topic. 

With proper Bible study it becomes evident that the "Thousand Year Reign" and "Judgment Day" are the same. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20120901/judgment-day/

You vaguely say you were never one of Jehovah's Witnesses but this statement of yours compelled me to ask. You said, "no amount of teaching from any Elders, WT's, Awakes, shepherding calls, brothers/sisters,...? " I wonder if you would even answer truthfully. This statement makes it hard to believe that you weren't. Were the elders making shepherding calls on you to help you see the light?

another side note: Bible discussion should be an effort to appeal and reason together, not to win an argument. Your approach seems aggravated with an effort to belittle, rather than an effort to appeal.

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I understand and agree with you that this and other discussions should be about reasoning, however we cannot reason if we are not dealing with facts and merely using opinions. 

 

6 hours ago, Dwayne Reed said:

What you have failed to see in all of this is that the Thousand Year Reign is when all of these things described at Revelation chapter 20 occur.

I am reading Rev 20:4&5 as they are written, these verses do not say during, but rather spell out exactly how things are going to take place and when. Yes, the chapter centers around the thousand years, no argument here on that. The fact is that each section of chapter 20 deals with something specific. This chapter is written chronologically, event after event and how each derives from the last. It would make no sense for Satan to be released after death and been abolished. Verse 4&5 tell us exactly in which order who is resurrected and when, there is no grey area here. Before the thousand years the first resurrection, after the thousand years, the rest. What you are trying to do is gather the events and contain them within the thousand years, which is just not possible. 

 

7 hours ago, Dwayne Reed said:

You have not explained away my reply regarding the "last day." If the resurrection does not occur during Christ's Thousand Year Reign, then Jesus will not have accomplished what his rule is designed to do, before he hands it back to his God and Father. (1 Cor. 15:27, 28) The last enemy death will not have been brought to nothing(1 Cor. 15:25, 26) if the physical resurrection has not occurred. 

I think here you believe that the thousand years and the "last day" are synonymous, which they are not. While I agree that "Judgement day" is probably not a single day, it is not the 1000 year reign, there is no scripture to support this either. 

7 hours ago, Dwayne Reed said:

Your misunderstanding of my reference to "come to life" as symbolic does not explain away that the purpose of the Thousand Year Reign is to restore what Adam lost - perfect human life for all faithful humans. 

I answered you based on your "symbolic death" but you didn't clarify, instead you simply state I misunderstand. You will need to help me understand your thought then. By answering the questions I raised on this, you will be helping me understand. 

here it is again:

On 5/6/2016 at 2:30 PM, Shiwiii said:

You are believing then, that these ones will not "come to life", that is come to know God, until after the thousand year reign? So then these will not understand what is happening around them, not gain understanding, not realize Jesus is who He says He is, until after 100 years and then be subjected to judgement? no amount of teaching from any Elders, WT's, Awakes, shepherding calls, brothers/sisters, nothing until its time of judgement? Is that what you believe? It appears that way based on your thoughts on these ones being dead as in dead to their former way of life, and NOT coming to life as in a resurrection, but rather knowledge. Do you also think then that these that do not "come to life" until after 1000 years are the same ones who Satan gathers to make war with the saints? 

 

7 hours ago, Dwayne Reed said:

The Thousand Year Reign serves no purpose if everyone that can have the possibility of perfect human life on a restored earthly paradise are not present to be judged. This will require that the dead "who practiced vile things" be resurrected, as John 5:29 reveals, in order to be judged during the Thousand Year Reign.

judgement is after the thousand years are completed. Rev 20:7 tells us when the thousand years were over, and verse 11 starts telling us about the judgement. Again, I think you have the thousand year reign and the last day as synonymous. John 5:29 does not reveal that "during" anytime period. This is interjected bias on your part for a resurrection during the thousand years. John 5:29 does tells us what will happen AT judgement, some resurrected to life and others resurrected to judgement.  Hebrews 9:27 tells us that after death comes judgement. This tells us plainly that there is no second chance. Both John 5:29 and Heb 9:27 speak of the same thing, but neither are talking about during the thousand year reign. 

 

7 hours ago, Dwayne Reed said:

You want to see a Scripture that says, in black & white, 'The resurrection will occur during the Thousand Year Reign." But it is only evident by an ability to reason with soundness of mind and considering everything the Bible has to say on the topic. 

We already have scripture that states otherwise!

It is YOU who is trying to say it doesn't mean what it says, and that is why I am asking for scripture to support YOUR claim.

You made a statement about belittling, but not you want to imply a lack of the ability to reason with soundness??? I'm giving you scripture that contradicts your claim. What you are doing and believing in is the same thing the serpent did to Eve. The serpent tricked Eve by asking if God really said they would die? Instead he made Even think that God was lying, kinda like you are doing by saying that when Rev 20:4&5 don't really mean before the thousand year reign and after. 

 

7 hours ago, Dwayne Reed said:

With proper Bible study it becomes evident that the "Thousand Year Reign" and "Judgment Day" are the same.

I have read your links and they too lack biblical support for its claims. There is no scripture to support this resurrection during the thousand year reign. Instead, like you, there is an assumption that judgement day and the 1000 year reign are one and the same. Included in some of the wording is "Judgement day will thus see the restoration of mankind to its original perfect state." How exactly is the term judge being used here? It is not, it is inventing a double meaning to the term judge. We see in Rev 20:12 that this is when the actual judging takes place, and this is after the thousand year reign, verse 7 tells us this. 

 

9 hours ago, Dwayne Reed said:

You vaguely say you were never one of Jehovah's Witnesses but this statement of yours compelled me to ask. You said, "no amount of teaching from any Elders, WT's, Awakes, shepherding calls, brothers/sisters,...? " I wonder if you would even answer truthfully. This statement makes it hard to believe that you weren't. Were the elders making shepherding calls on you to help you see the light?

because I am not ignorant to the ways the WT works, does not mean I have ever been part of it. 

 

7 hours ago, Dwayne Reed said:

For those who would like to learn how Judgment Day and the Thousand Year Reign coincide, please refer to: What Does the Bible Really Teach? APPENDIX: Judgment Day - What Is It?

I disagree, if one wants to know then read the Bible. 

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It is quite interesting how the title of this booklet is similar to the question satan had to Eve. 

Both are questioning what God has told to man and interjecting an opinion outside of what God had said. 

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It is quite simple why resurrection will take place before Satan is released at the end of Thousand Years.

Those that "practiced vile things"  . Romans 6:7, 23 helps us to understand that those that have died have already paid the wage for what they did before they died. So, there is no further judgment for what they did before they died.

They will be judged for what they do after being resurrected. They must put faith in Jesus and take a stand for pure worship.

 

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3 hours ago, Dwayne Reed said:

It is quite simple why resurrection will take place before Satan is released at the end of Thousand Years.

Those that "practiced vile things"  . Romans 6:7, 23 helps us to understand that those that have died have already paid the wage for what they did before they died. So, there is no further judgment for what they did before they died.

They will be judged for what they do after being resurrected. They must put faith in Jesus and take a stand for pure worship.

 

Your first sentence is refuted by the Bible itself at rev 20:4&5. 

Romans 6:7, if you read from verse 1 through to verse 7 you will see the actual context. When someone believes in Jesus, they then have died with Him of their former self. This has more to do with living for Christ for the sake of what He did for us. It has nothing to say about what you do for yourself in the means of dying. You cannot cover your own sins by your own death, or else there would be no reason for Jesus to have come and done it for us. Verse 23, yes sin deserves death and it is our belief in Jesus that gives us the free gift of God, eternal life. 

All will be judged according to what they did in their body in this lifetime. There is no second chance.  

2 Corinthians 5:10  "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil." 

Hebrews 9:27 " And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,"

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You are taking Romans 6:7 and 23 out of context. If you read it in context with the chapter as a whole you will see it. If you choose to selectively take a single verse then you will see what YOU want to see. Hebrews 9:27 and 2 Cor 9:10 spell a different picture than what you want to believe. 

Again, we are talking about a resurrection DURING the thousand year reign.

Again, you have provided no scriptural support for your belief, only speculation. 

I have to conclude since this has been going on this long and you have not supported a resurrection DURING the thousand year reign, then it means that you cannot do so with scripture. I get it and fully understand. You believe it, I don't based on the Bible. So what does the Bible really teach? Not a resurrection during the thousand year reign as the book implies. 

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If death does not free the unrighteous from sin there would be no hope for the 'evildoer' that Jesus promised would be in paradise. (Luke 23:43)

"And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15) 

What good would be served by raising millions of people from the dead whose former lives were filled with vile deeds, only to tell them that they are vile and then execute them? The indication of the Scriptures is that when Haʹdes gives up those dead in it, they will be ‘judged individually according to the deeds’ they do following their resurrection. (Rev. 20:13) The resurrection will afford them an opportunity to live.

As Hebrews 9:27, 28, “it is reserved for men to die once for all time” due to sin inherited from Adam, “but after this a judgment” that is made possible by the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ and that gives men the opportunity for “salvation.”

Those who did good things will no doubt find it easier to continue in that course, and, if they keep on doing good right on through the final test following Christ’s thousand-year rule, it will be shown that theirs was a “resurrection of life.”

Those who practices vile things will be granted the opportunity to change their ways and gain salvation, but in the case of those who do not do so, it will become evident at the time of that final test that theirs was a ‘resurrection of condemnatory judgment.’

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