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4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

and who thereafter regarded me as her star pupil for a time, and expressed such disappointment when she found that it was not so.

JWs tend to strive to become "star pupils" of 8 men who have gained control over "Bible teachings", a term you have used.  They have gained control over all JWs as their head; yet, only Jesus is our Head.  I would hope each JW would become a star pupil of Jesus Christ.  Matt 20:25-28; 1 Cor 1:12,13   If that was the truly the desire of a JW, it would not be long before one would realize that the "turf" he or she was once defending was based on the teachings of men other than the teachings of Christ.  Under those circumstances, one becomes a defender of truth in Jesus Christ.  

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10 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

It would be hypocritical to suggest someone’s opinion in this forum should natter more or above others. I recall a person by AllenSmith34 that didn’t get that consideration. Especially by people like “witness” that complained to the Librarian, I would imagine for his/her style of commenting on realistic views from opposers that want to command an audience but are too weak to accept criticism, from their misapplied views, and supporting false images thereof, and yet believe in their hearts, they are Christian.I guess the same can be side about Morris in a liquor store shopping for “spirits” that are NOT against any scriptural law other than the effect it takes after over-consumption. Then there is scriptural responsibility.The fact this has come about on this particular month reminds me of Alastor

 

 

Criticise away Kid you know you love it.  I'm sure we can all take it. 

Do all your pedophile Elders and congregants think they are Christians too ?  And all those that worship your GB, do they think they are Christians ? Get real Kid, see the truth in all of it.  Come down out of the clouds. 

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32 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

It would be hypocritical to suggest someone’s opinion in this forum should natter more or above others. I recall a person by AllenSmith34 that didn’t get that consideration. Especially by people like “witness” that complained to the Librarian, 

Whoops.  You said once, "who is this Allen Smith?"  I never complained about you to the Librarian, Allen, although I know you most likely turned me in for something.  

 

And....this is extremely off topic.  

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On 4/5/2019 at 11:47 PM, BillyTheKid46 said:

Now let's get this POST back on track. Morris, a liquor store, and why opposers think Morris is an alcoholic without 100% proof, 

Yeah! once again, the Terminator, brash as he is, nails it.

I like this reproduced letter, and judging from the wording, I even imagine I know which helper wrote it:

While I appreciate the concern of the brother who “witnessed” this, I also have some concerns about the assumptions made. Please keep in mind, there are a number of circumstances that others may not be aware of. For example, using the purchase in connection with visitors, graduates from Gilead or the Branch Committee School. Also, over what period of time will these [bottles] be used? As far as dedicated funds, some of our brothers had businesses prior to coming to Bethel. I will not get too personal on Brother Morris’s circumstances in that regard. It does point out that our dear brothers are a “theatrical spectacle,” so please assume the best of our dear brother. Thank you.

One can be forgiven for imagining @Jack Ryan is having steamy sex over in his domain, so orgasmic is he over this. He has posted TWELVE (at least) separate topics about this!

He is among the ones (those who have gone atheistic) who lectures everyone else about his superior skills of critical thinking. And yet he so clearly—you couldn’t ask for a better example—lets his wishful thinking drag him along as with hooks in his jaws. He leads with his heart, not with his head at all.

Look, IF the brother was a deadbeat flatout drunkard on someone else’s dime, then yes, this is a video that would be consistent with it. But BECAUSE there exists such a video, the reverse is not by any means true. Far more likely is it that one of the factors the Bethel helper mentions is the reality.

Anybody who knows how to think knows this is so, and yet Jack does not know it. He knows what he wants to think, and that is enough for him to fit any circumstance into his foregone conclusion. And yet he would boast of his “critical thinking” skills.

“While I appreciate the concern of the brother who “witnessed” this, I also have some concerns about the assumptions made. Please keep in mind, there are a number of circumstances that others may not be aware of,” the helper says.

No alcoholic could guzzle liquor the way Jack guzzles assumptions. And yet he would tell us that he has broken away from religion and has learned to use his intellect!

He is either incredibly deceitful or incredibly stupid. Take your pick,

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On 4/4/2019 at 6:18 PM, BillyTheKid46 said:

It’s like a former Bethel member giving up insinuations and then, say, but really, I don’t know the reason why they were dismissed, it’s my assumption they were for that reason. That’s hilarious.

I referred specifically to a period of time from mid 1976 to mid-1977 when I saw drunkenness and saw persons getting in trouble for drunkenness. During that time the reasons for weekly dismissals were announced by Knorr from "morning worship" which included Knorr's comments every weekday morning after the day's text and comments. He often went into great detail about the exact reasons that persons were dismissed, and it was almost always for theft or some kind of immorality. Persons were dismissed every week, but during that time there was never an announcement of someone being dismissed for drunkenness.

It was after mid-1977 that announcements about the reasons for dismissals stopped, and this is why we could not assume to know the reasons for dismissals from that point on.

In any case it's still true then, that I saw drunkenness and misuse of alcohol by younger members at Bethel, but never heard of a case where a person was dismissed for it. I cannot say it didn't happen. Yet I did know persons who got away with repeated drunkenness who were never dismissed.

I have never seen a member of the Governing Body drunk. I never even suspected it. One of several persons who claimed that he had seen such a thing, had his own issues with alcohol in my opinion. The only member of the Governing Body I knew well was Bert Schroeder. (I saw and worked near Sydlik, Gangas and Swingle on a daily basis but never got to know them very well.) He hosted a Gilead party in his room after every graduation. Invariably, there were some very talented persons in the Gilead class musically, and a great Flamenco style Spanish guitarist at the very first "Gilead party" I attended in the Fall of 1976. Brother Schroeder served alcohol in his room, but I don't recall him drinking at all, not that it would have been a problem if he did. Everyone else also drank moderately. This was very early and memorable in my Bethel years, and it was the first Bethel "party" I attended.

But among younger Bethelites, alcohol seemed to me to be a bigger problem than I had expected. In 1978, I went to Europe for about 6 weeks, part of it with the Schroeders, and part of it to work at the Athens branch, and part of it to attend various international conventions and visit and stay at 8 European branch offices - not in any official capacity of course, just as a free hotel room. Just before the trip, my brother had just sent me a 5-gallon bottle of Seagrams 7, which I had not opened and I asked my three roommates not to open while I was gone. It was empty when I came back.

Several young brothers at Bethel had lamps that were made from these 5 gallon whiskey bottles, and I gave away the empty bottle to a brother who wanted to make a lamp out of it. Who knows? It might have been passed down to someone who is still there.

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On 4/5/2019 at 11:47 PM, BillyTheKid46 said:

regardless if there was someone as a Bethel Member, that truly knows nothing 

 

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

my brother had just sent me a 5-gallon bottle of Seagrams 7, which I had not opened and I asked my three roommates not to open while I was gone. It was empty when I came back.

See, Billy? You achieved the very opposite of what you intended, didn’t you?  ‘Slash and burn’ is not always the way to go.

 

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I gave away the empty bottle to a brother who wanted to make a lamp out of it. Who knows? It might have been passed down to someone who is still there.

Hey, look at the cool lamp that Brother Imbiber left me in his will!

 

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  • Similar Content

    • By Queen Esther
      THE VIDEO OF BROTHER ANTHONY MORRIS    ( source, our  Brother  Jose Antonio Gutierrez Garcia )
      My dear brothers and sisters,
      I respond to those who have asked for my opinion. Therefore, those who do not know what I am talking about, do not ask me.
      The past days, I received in the mailboxes of my Facebook and Youtube pages, a video that is circulating among the apostates of our Faith. Evidently it has been sent to me as a joke.
      Of all of you my deep disgust is known for all those who are not satisfied with their distance from our community, now they have dedicated their poor lives to be our satellites, whining how poor they are, and looking for ways to intoxicate weak minds like their own.
      The video in question tries to convince those who want to swallow it, that one of the members of the governing body, Brother Anthony Morris, is in a liquor store, buying a lot of bottles of whiskey, a very high price on the bottle, and spending a large amount of dollars.
      Do you know what it is to EDIT A VIDEO? I explain it to you.
      It is a process by which an editor places fragments of video, digital effects and any other audiovisual material on a tape or a computer file. To edit a video is simply to MANIPULATE it, that is, to join some images to others, eliminating some, enlarging or reducing others already edited, incorporating music and sound, digital effects, titles and any other material.
      That can be done with bad intentions. It is a way of cheating.
      Well, brothers, the idea is this.
      FIRST, I have no doubt that apostates are human beings. But, that is precisely his unforgivable sin. Because if they were pigs or literal dogs as the Bible calls them, they would have some mercy from Jehovah. Now, they are intentionally sinning against the holy spirit, by attacking the holy people of Jehovah.
      SECOND, everything, absolutely everything that these people do, aims to slander, blaspheme and lie against our people. Proverbs 18:48 says that "the mouth of the wicked causes bad things to bubble up." And Psalm 35:20 says: "For it is not peace that they speak, but against the quiet of the earth things of deceit are still plotting."
      THIRD, the video in question is EDITED. It is not a continuous image, but it is formed by different cuts, attached to each other at the will of the person who recorded it. Does that matter a lot? You are right. Because it raises unanswered questions, such as where is it that the brother takes the bottles with his hands? Where is it that the brother goes with his cart and the 8, 10 or 12 bottles (depending on who tells the story) to the box and pays them? Where do you see that the cart that the brother of the store takes out, carries those bottles?
      Moreover, my brothers, let us suppose that Brother Morris really buys a few bottles of whiskey. Do we know its final use? Is it for your own consumption or is it for the Bethel house, where many guests are received among travelers, Bethelites, volunteers, civil authorities, etc., etc.? The hypocrites will say that we can not drink alcohol. That is false, I can drink the wine or the liquor that the Bible authorizes me, without the excess that leads to drunkenness.
      But there are even the hyper-hypocrite people who accuse the brother of spending the money that the "poor little" brothers donate in the contribution boxes of the whole world. And who knows what is paid in cash? Where is the teller's testimony telling us the amount paid? Who claims that Brother Morris paid with Bethel money or did it out of his own pocket? Many may not know, but we have brothers who were millionaires before leaving their businesses and keep monthly revenues to devote exclusively to the Kingdom. But the hypocrite will say that they make a vow of poverty and of course, according to them, that means becoming hermits, wearing sacks and asking for alms in the streets.
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      SUMMARIZING:
      I'm sure they read these apostates, simple people to whom it's easy to cheat. Let's see if your mind manages to assimilate these words: Whatever you do, say what you say, you can spend the rest of your sad lives plotting, make the videos that you like, slander what you like, deceive those who are like you .. .... but LIVE GOD, you will never get the attention of the world Jehovah's Witness community. You are indifferent to us. We know that the hour of your punishment is approaching and we are moving away from you lest we spill your blood. It is true that some "presumed witnesses" pay attention to you, even cowards who remain in the congregations betraying their brothers without being discovered.
      1 John 2:19 says: They came out from among us, but they were not of our kind; because if they had been of our class, they would have stayed with us. But [they left], so that it would be shown clearly that not everyone is of our class
      TO MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS:
      Few words to say. It is more of the same. YOU DO NOT READ, NEITHER LOOK, NEITHER HEAR, nothing that comes from our opponents. They take refuge in what we are forbidden by Jehovah, to speak to them and that is why they speak in the desert, boasting that because we do not answer them, they are right. Stupid, the youngest of the witnesses would sweep you off the map, with the biblical arguments that we have. The great tribulation is prepared. Everyone that the angels catch in contact with this hybrid apostate offspring will be dead. I call them hybrids because they come from the union of two individuals of the same genus but different species, humans and demons.
      MAY JEHOVAH BLESS YOU WITNESSES OF JEHOVAH FAITHFUL.

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    • For a brief time, Mike Tussin was a roommate of mine. He drove me nuts in taking literally the admonition to read God’s Word “in an undertone day and night.” In time, he learned that he had better not do it in my presence. I logged some of his exploits in No Fake News but Plenty of Hogwash. He was one of the most squirrelly characters that you will ever hope to meet, and yet—people are a mix—he had the most telling common sense, knack for nailing aspects of human nature (though mixed with an odd naïveté), no fear whatsoever of man, and the ability to simplify the complex. I can hear him now explaining to someone or other just how it worked with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, composed of anointed Christians. This would have been in the early 1970s. “They study and study their Bibles and one of them notices a point and discusses it with the others. They continue to turn it over and over. If their discussion reaches the point of agreement, that idea finds its way into the Watchtower—that’s how God’s people are fed spiritually today. “Now, in your own personal study, you may have noticed that point, too, maybe even before they did. And if this was Christendom, you’d go out and start your own religion over it.”  He captured it. I like the idea of ‘they’re not the only people who can think’ as well as the notion of waiting on headship and not running ahead. Present your idea, but if it doesn’t get adopted, don’t lose your cookies over it. The ship cannot sail in every direction at once. Rumor has it that Sputnik came up for discussion at the Bethel table after 1957, but it was aborted before takeoff. Might that date not be a milestone in the last days stream of time commencing with the outbreak of World War I in 1914–a year marking the first time in history that the entire world went to war at once? 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It’s one of the few major accomplishments of men that has NOT been quickly put to military use—though that could ever change—the way that airplanes were. No sooner had they been invented then they were strafing the towns of Europe and dogfighting each other in the skies. In contrast to 1957, World War I was not only perceived by just about everyone, but it was instantly perceived as a negative. Probably that’s what the other GB members pointed out, sending the three Bethel “astronauts” pitching the notion hurtling off like Darth Vader in his crippled craft, careening off to the pantry for a donut or two. Hmm. Maybe an update could incorporate robocalls from the cloud. What year did they begin? Truly, they cause men to raise their faces and curse the heavens. Truly, they too, are instantly perceived as a great evil, as any time-share owner in the Everglades knows. You know, as I read the 1960 speech, I can see how the idea might come up for discussion at Bethel. 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    • You know, I can see how the idea might come up for discussion at Bethel. Despite my innocuous take expressed about it—a take that has mostly played out (but may someday not)—there certainly were military overtones in JFKs speech rallying Americans to support a moon launch.  We set sail on this new sea because there is new knowledge to be gained, and new rights to be won, and they must be won and used for the progress of all people. For space science, like nuclear science and all technology, has no conscience of its own. Whether it will become a force for good or ill depends on man, and only if the United States occupies a position of pre-eminence can we help decide whether this new ocean will be a sea of peace or a new terrifying theater of war. I do not say that we should or will go unprotected against the hostile misuse of space any more than we go unprotected against the hostile use of land or sea, but I do say that space can be explored and mastered without feeding the fires of war, without repeating the mistakes that man has made in extending his writ around this globe of ours. There is no strife, no prejudice, no national conflict in outer space as yet. Its hazards are hostile to us all. Its conquest deserves the best of all mankind, and its opportunity for peaceful cooperation may never come again. But why, some say, the Moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask, why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas? We choose to go to the Moon! We choose to go to the Moon...We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win, and the others, too.
    • Good start. Just noticed the latest post. Does Russell make any distinction for 1844 other than to suggest it was a great disappointment for the second coming churches? Did he use 1844 to further his calculation? Does he mention 1844 to be part of his calculation? Does he stipulate 1910-1911 is referenced in scripture? It far more interesting, that some continue to project Russell as an Adventist, when Russell was “clearly” criticized for having a negative view of Adventist. It speaks volumes to those that continue to portray a false narrative. “So today, when prophetic time or anything relating to the Lord’s Second Advent is mentioned, many Cry ‘Adventist,’ as if to say, ‘Can any good thing come out of Adventism?"- even though they admit that many prophecies containing time are not yet fulfilled, and that the second coming of the Lord is the most prominent topic of Scripture." "We have great sympathy for both the First Adventists (the Jews) and the Second Adventists, though only a few of either realized the truths they So nearly apprehended, yet failed to grasp, each being blinded by false expectations. Our Adventist friends have failed to recognize both the manner and the object of the Lord’s return as taught in the Scriptures; consequently they have not been expecting to ‘see him as he is,’ but as he was. They consider the object of his coming one which will fill the hearts of all except the saints with dismay and terror; that his object is to gather the elect, destroy all others of mankind, and burn up the world."   Interesting how conflicted people start with William miller’s account of chronology, 1844. I wonder if Brown and Miller were the only ones to make calculations on the 1260 days, 2520 days. CHRONOLOGY--Prominent Dates. Q76:1: QUESTION (1910)--1--Should we consider it necessary to call attention to other Prominent dates than 1874, 1878, 1881 or 1914? Should 1911 be included?   ANSWER--I am glad that question is there, my dear brothers and sisters. You will notice that in my own teachings and writings I am careful to avoid any other dates than these. I know nothing about other dates. In the third volume of Scripture Studies there is a suggestion, but it is offered only as a suggestion, merely that a certain measurement in the Pyramid (not in the Word of God) Looks as though it might point down to 1910 or 1911, but we do not say that it does mean anything, but merely throw out a suggestion. Don't anticipate, don't say things are to occur, for we do not know, at least I don't, and don't believe anyone else does. My advice is to follow the Apostle when he says, "We speak those things that we know." Don't say anything about those things that you do not know. Quite likely you will wish you had not after a while. Nineteen hundred and fourteen is the time when the "Gentile Times" will end. What does that mean? I do not know, but I think it is when God lets go in a general sense of the word, and permits things to take their course; and we can readily suppose, as the Apostle says, that the course of nature would be set on fire, because of strife. In the world of mankind, I shall expect a time of great trouble, which the Bible marks out as having its beginning about October, 1914, but I think, dear friends, that it is more important, instead of telling of the time of trouble, to tell about the good things. The poor people who get into the time of trouble will have all they want of it then. I have enough now, and so have you. The Scriptures say that through much tribulation shall we enter the kingdom, and if we pay attention to our duties, we will get enough without taking time to tell them about the time of trouble. The world will not be profited by our telling, either. We do not wish to scare anybody. It is indeed a spectacle, when that kind of suggestion is made by a conflicted person. Were there any earlier works of Miller 1844 disappointment? History shows, there were some. Some that paint a more precise picture than that of Miller. Therefore, Russell did not have any influence with Miller’s 1844 prediction nor did Russell use it as basis for comparison. "When the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat; when the earth and the works that are therein shall be burnt up."   At the present time the blessings of peace seem to be nearly general throughout the nations of the earth. This I deem a very favourable sign. War, however, with its train of abominations, may not finally terminate till about A. D. 1914, or perhaps A. D. 1956; neither do I think that the seventh thousand years, or great Sabbath of the world, or the beginning of Christ's third day, will commence before A. D. 2046 ; and this belief or conclusion I take to be no less deducible from a variety of the prophetic numbers, than from the figurative language employed by Christ concerning the three days, and the three measures of meal, during the time of which the whole world shall be gradually leavened by the kingdom of God.   As I have calculated the prophetical numbers, it will be 206 years from A. D. 1840, before the beginning of the seventh thousand years, or the great Sabbath of the world, when God's rest shall begin to be glorious, and when Christ, that glorious Sun of Righteousness, by the brightness of His coming into those temples, It is indeed sad when people try so hard to end up empty. As stated earlier by an architect of misrepresentation said, it’s an embarrassment. I agree it is.
    • It is worth a simulated launch, I guess—presenting the idea—but I’m glad that it blew up on the pad. It would have been lost on most people. Relatively few catch the implications of anything. They take it at face value—“Space: The final frontier: these are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise—it’s continuing mission: to seek out new world’s, to boldly go where no man has gone before.” On a flight to Damascus, Bill had a vision of such. Some odd fellow that he took for an angel presented the idea to him right there on the Shatner wing. Like Paul, it disoriented him completely for a time, and the other passengers heard of the disturbance, sure enough, but witnessed nothing themselves. As a boy, I never once trembled when they launched a rocket from Cape Canaveral. I always took it in the spirit of advancing technology, advancing exploration. It’s one of the few accomplishments of men that has NOT been quickly put to military use, as airplanes were.  In contrast, WWI was not only perceived by just about everyone, but it was instantly perceived as a negative. Probably that’s what the other—how many were there then—GB members pointed out, sending Bert and his co-astronauts scuttling off to the pantry for a donut. Robocalls from the cloud, on the other hand, ARE perceived as an instant evil, as any time-share owner in the Everglades knows.
    • If you think they use it for their own purposes then why do you donate?  That is not logical. It depends on what you define as own purposes, private purposes, public purposes, necessities, etc.  I think you really should be more thankful to be associated with the organization and what it does for us.
    • My donations are always by check, and written thereon is "for local needs". It's like paying taxes, some of which are used to make hydrogen bombs, and ICBMs. Not my problem. Jesus and the Apostles needed NONE of those things you mentioned, Arauna. If you are NOT inspired of God, as the GB admits they are not ( February 2017 Watchtower), you do need all of those things you mentioned. They are actually essential, as I would freely admit. .... and HEY!, I am just guessing about all of this ... as is everyone else. And Arauna .... did you get NOTHING out of the "Follow Jesus" Assemblies? Jesus set the example . We are either following that example, or ..... WE ARE NOT. The fact of the matter is that the GB DOES use the billions for their own purposes. but, I am, as you stated, "no one to criticize" ... as I do not follow Jesus' example either. If I had that kind of money, I would buy a Chinook double rotor helicopter, instead of Rolex watches, and cartoons of Caleb and Sophia, etc. uh ... for Witnessing on beautiful Pacific Islands, of course ....    
    • Just one question for you:  when you go to meeting or field service you get to use many videos that were made to be easily accessible for all ages and peoples.  Do you have any clue what equipment costs?   Many poor congregations in Africa receive projectors from the organization because they cannot afford it. They do still print bibles and watchtowers etc. Do you think they must remain in the Jurassic age when it comes to using technology or will it be ok by you if they venture to use the newest tech to support the brothers? You have a budget to fulfill your responsibilities at home.....dont you?  Why not broaden out and see that they also need money to provide services in almost 1000 languages?   I think we need a little more gratitude and less criticism...  ALL you see is "billions" which you try to imply are used for their own purposes....  They are always in need of funds to make it stretch further..... because we do get all our spiritual needs fulfilled without cost.  You need not give any donation if you feel they waste it.  You can use all amenities without giving a dime!   
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