If the Body of Christ is united and, in your estimation, it is only the eight that have gone renegade, disfellowship them already and be done with it!

[TrueTomHarley]

11 minutes ago, The Librarian said:

learn to start new threads and follow topic titles or find a new forum.

 

Well... I started the deviation this time. (or did I? One thing just so easily flows into another.)

At any rate (this can be put into a new topic, but I don’t know whether I will participate or not), I cannot get my head around your fixation on this, Witness. If the Body of Christ is united and, in your estimation, it is only the eight that have gone renegade, disfellowship them already and be done with it!

What’s 8 out of 144,000? As soon thereafter as you actually DO something, the sheep will notice and go where you think they ought.

[The Librarian]

New club rule!

WHEN IN DOUBT, START A NEW TOPIC!

 

[Witness]

4 hours ago, The Librarian said:

New club rule!

WHEN IN DOUBT, START A NEW TOPIC!

 

Good way to put it.  Thanks.  

[Witness]

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If the Body of Christ is united and, in your estimation, it is only the eight that have gone renegade, disfellowship them already and be done with it!

I will ask you this first.  In the organization, IS the anointed Body of Christ united under the Watchtower’s regulations?

Watchtower 16/1 pg 24:  In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study. (Gal. 1:15-17) Such efforts would cause divisions within the congregation and work against the holy spirit, which promotes peace and unity. 

So, no, they are not unified.  Who stands in their way?  Who makes sure they don’t become unified? 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@TrueTomHarley " it is only the eight that have gone renegade, disfellowship them already and be done with it! "

Now that would be a good start point.  If God wants that done it will surely happen. 

But then a lot of 'rule changing' and rebuilding would be needed too, to make the JW Org worthy for God to use.   

[TrueTomHarley]

5 hours ago, The Librarian said:

New club rule!

WHEN IN DOUBT, START A NEW TOPIC!

 

Even if I just want to insult the old pork chop?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I got that nick name because my Mom would tie a pork chop around my neck, to get the puppy to play with me.

[TrueTomHarley]

32 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I got that nick name because my Mom would tie a pork chop around my neck, to get the puppy to play with me.

I don’t quite know why, but I am somehow reminded of Amos Moses, who’s daddy would use him for alligator bait:

Now everyone blamed his old man
For making him mean as a snake
When Amos Moses was a boy
His daddy would use him for alligator bait
Tie a rope around his neck and throw him in the swamp
Alligator bait in the Louisiana bayou

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

"If the Body of Christ is united and, in your estimation, it is only the eight that have gone renegade, disfellowship them already and be done with it!"  - True TomHarley

 

Hmmmmmm ... and just who is there on Earth today that could do it?

Jehovah did not interfere when the Nazis and the Japanese Empire were trying to take over the world. 70 years ago, and he did not help or harm any nation involved in the conflict, or any individual, inside or outside of the Truth.

There is NOBODY on this Earth, able to fire the Governing Body.

..... er .... except in the Russian Federation.

 

 

 

 

[Witness]

If the Body of Christ is united and, in your estimation, it is only the eight that have gone renegade, disfellowship them already and be done with it!

They will be removed by the organization. But, there's more to it than simply disfellowshipping them, as if that will repair the organization.   

God chose His priesthood in the anointed since Jesus walked the earth. Matt 16:18; John 15:16; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17    Within the last century, men have gradually dismissed their role as His priests, by setting a new (“new” since the organization’s inception) “uncircumcised” priesthood called the elder body to “minister” in their place. (Rom 2:28,29); Dan 8:13;9:27;12:11;  Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2 

The elders have gained authority over God’s chosen priesthood at the direction of head anointed ones who have left their covenant with God.  The elder body are believed to be divinely chosen by God to direct the organization, even though God chose his priesthood through an anointing. 

During all of this, the term “spirit-directed” is applied by Watchtower’s leaders, to the image of the organization.  Although the GB admit to not being “inspired” themselves, through their proclamation of this, they have sanctioned divinity, or given “breath”/spirit to the organization.  Uninspired men direct an “inspired” organization, as they would have you believe.

Two major entities co-rule the organization; the GB who are spiritual “Jews”/”Israel” (Rom 9:6-8) and the elder body who are spiritual “Gentiles” not anointed.  Scattered among all “nations” within the congregations are anointed ones. (Ezek 28:25) The organization is a fortress ruled primarily by “Gentiles”.  It calls itself a “mountainlike organization” - “Zion”.  It claims to be an eternal standing fortress of strength. However, is the Kingdom comprised of spiritual “Israel”, Christ’s kings; or “Gentile” rulers? How can Zion incorporate those who are not anointed? Heb 12:22;Rev 1:5; 5:9,10; Rev 14:1 

Interestingly, it also compares itself to Moses’ day and the early nation of Israel.  But, if one looks at how God directed His people then, it was through His chosen priesthood; and the pattern followed was the heavenly pattern shown him.  Heb 7:11,12;8:1,2,5-10; 9:11; 2 Cor 5:17   When Korah challenged God’s direction through Moses and Aaron, he and his companions lost their lives for attempting to usurp the authority already in place by God. Numbers 16:3-7,10,11,18,20,21,35,40    Of course, the Watchtower changes the meaning of this event by pointing to Korah’s example to bolster a counterfeit priesthood that JWs are to obey.  JWs are admonished, “do not be like Korah” (Jude 1:11); but Jude was writing to the anointed ones when speaking of apostate “dreamers” who reject GOD’s authority.

To give credence to their own “uncircumcised” elders in power, they state:

Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Why? Because, through his holy spirit, Jehovah has appointed the older men to their positions. (Hebrews 13:7, 17) How can that be?

19. In what way are elders appointed by holy spirit?

¹⁹ These older men meet the requirements that are set out in God’s Word, which is a product of God’s spirit. (1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-9) Hence, their appointment can be said to be by holy spirit. (Acts 20:28)

So, God appoints the elders via the Bible, simply because God’s Word is inspired?  What a hypocritical usage of God’s Word; especially in the light of decades of hidden child abuse where elders are directly responsible for allowing it to happen. 

Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders! w02 8/1 p. 13-14

Through this statement, unyielding power over God’s own appointed priesthood (and ALL JWS) is blatantly obvious.  If someone threatens you in another circumstance by saying, “don’t challenge my authority”, wouldn’t you agree that it appears as an abuse of power and a trampling down of your own ability to discern your personal relationship with God? Yet, this is how the “Man of Lawlessness”/elder body “tramples” down the anointed priesthood/Temple. Dan 8:10,11; 2 Thess 2:3,4  Even among these chosen ones, kingly/priestly authority is earned through their righteous deeds and actions, because they are serving the overall vision of God as His servants, just as anyone’s actions should be recognized as approved by God and Jesus Christ – not by men.  Matt 25:19-23; Phil 2:12 

Elders, on the other hand, are christened by an earthly organization and its leaders through cherry-picking scriptures from the Bible; and as a result use their “position” to lord it over over the congregations.  Luke 22:24-27   They are not slaves for God, but pawns of an early corporation; and with all JWs, they are slaves to an idol that appears to be “spirit-breathed” by God.  Isa 40:25; 45:20-22; Rev 13:2,15

A combination of dual authority come against the anointed ones in the last days.  One is “from the sea”, the abyss, a fabrication from Satan’s domain with a progressive rulership he has installed.  Rev 13:1,2; Isa 57:20  It is his creation that “overcomes” the anointed ones. 

It began to speak blasphemies against God: to blaspheme his name and his dwelling—those who dwell in heaven. ⁷ And it was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. It was also given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation.   Rev 13:6,7

Knowing that our “war” is against “the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this darkness, against evil, spiritual forces in the heavens” (Eph 6:12)…

…and the weapons used are not literal weapons of the world but

they have divine power to demolish strongholds. ⁵ We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.  (2 Cor 10:3-5)

…here is an example of the opposing side of this war of truth against lies regarding the anointed ones:

“So anointed ones do not think that they are better than others. They know that Jehovah does not necessarily give anointed ones more holy spirit than he gives his other servants. And they do not feel that they can understand Bible truths more deeply than anyone else.” WT 16/1 p. 22, par 6

What is the scriptural basis for this statement?  They didn’t provide any.  It is the opinion of a “wicked slave”. Matt 24:48-51   In other words, the anointed are to keep quiet and dismiss the laws written on their heart through the “pouring out” of Holy Spirit during an anointing; (Heb 8:10; Eph 1:7-10; 1 John 2:27), to be used for teaching the people (Mal 2:7), and be fearful that “Gentiles” will disfellowship them if they use scriptures to contradict the blasphemous declaration above.  

Does this sound like something God would tell His anointed ones?  Can you imagine Him telling a Temple priest, “Listen, obey and you will be blessed because you submitted to the authority of those unanointed elders”?

No!  He said,“This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”  Matt 17:5

He would also say to His Temple (1 Cor 3:16,17):

‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Enough of your detestable practices, people of Israel! ⁷ In addition to all your other detestable practices, you brought foreigners uncircumcised in heart and flesh into my sanctuary, desecrating my temple while you offered me food, fat and blood, and you broke my covenant. ⁸ Instead of carrying out your duty in regard to my holy things, you put others in charge of my sanctuary. ⁹ This is what the Sovereign Lord says: No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and flesh is to enter my sanctuary, not even the foreigners who live among the Israelites.

The elders have indeed “entered” God’s sanctuary by exploiting the minds of the Temple priesthood with a Harlot’s lies that they support.   Can you see that Watchtower’s quote is mocking God by saying an anointing into a priesthood under Jesus Christ, our High Priest really means nothing?  Truly, the organization and its leaders use the effects of psychological entrapment to a theory; no, a delusion, to keep its members in place through obedience to men.  2 Thess 2:9-12; Col 2:8; Rev 13:10 And that by remaining in the organization, one will receive eternal life, as long as one listens and obeys what is really, a lie.   

 This statement plays on the quality of humility that God’s people should possess, but as Paul said,

Who are you to judge another’s household servant? Before his own Lord he stands or falls. And he will stand, because the Lord is able to make him stand.  Rom 14:4

Disfellowshipping is a judgment of “death”.  Any judgment concerning life or death, should only come directly from Jesus Christ. 

The second power in place that works in tandem with the “Beast from the sea” is from the “earth”, meaning from God’s anointed people, who are His dwelling.  Isa 60:13; 66:1; Jer 25:29,30,35,36; 23:1-8

It is the “false prophet” that breathes spirit into the image or concept of the Beast, that rules over God’s anointed ones.  Rev 13:11

“It was permitted to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast could both speak and cause whoever would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.” Rev 13:15

w63 7/1 p. 410-411 What kind of offenses are regarded as disfellowshiping offenses? These include persistence in sexual offenses, stealing, lying, dishonest business practices, rebellion against Jehovah’s organization, slandering, drunkenness, apostasy, teaching of false doctrine and other wrongs. 

Revelation concerns God’s appointed/anointed priests who are under the heavy-handed rule of “Gentiles” and fallen anointed ones directing this blasphemy.  I know it may sound hard to believe, but remember, Satan is the Master of deceit and lies.  He uses the gifts of power, authority and riches to persuade people to do his bidding, which is to destroy as many as he can, especially those who are to rule with Christ in the Kingdom. He offered Christ the same gifts in the wilderness. Luke 4:7  False prophets appear as ministers of light” which aid Satan to formulate his end time deception to come against the remnant during the last days.  Matt 7:15-20; 2 Cor 11:3,4, 13-15; 2 Thess 9:3,4;9-12; Rev 12:3,4,15,17

The “war” that rages now, is between the “kings of the earth”, the anointed who battle using either truth or lies. (Rev 1:5)  It is a LIE that the priesthood must submit to “Gentile” rule. 2 Chron 23:6,7  It is a LIE that the GB should be the sole source of spiritual “food” and can easily dismiss those who reject this doctrine.  Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:14-17  It is a LIE that the organization is Zion and a spiritual “temple”, when God’s Temple are His “living stones” of Christ’s Body. Matt 16:18; John 2:19-21; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Eph 2:20-22

Fast forward to who will disfellowship the Governing Body.  It will be the organization itself. 

The Beast from the Sea has ten horns and seven heads. Rev 13:1; (Rev 12:3) Dan 7:23  All of these symbolize ruling authorities over time.  In order to accomplish removing the GB, “ten horns” (horns are kings) are anointed who “have not received a kingdom” by being sealed in “heaven”, and who give their authority over to the Beast.

“The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they will receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. ¹³ These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast.”  Rev 17:12,13

Insurrection within the Watchtower organization will occur. If these scriptures applied to the UN and “Christendom”, has Christendom “given breath” to the UN? Is it “spirit-directed”? Rev 13:15  Do people “worship”/revere the UN? Rev 13:4 Do people laud the UN worldwide by saying, “Who is like the UN?  Who can wage war with it?” Rev 13:4  No, this is said by the organization’s leaders concerning their fortress.  Dan 11:38   Most importantly, has the UN spiritually conquered the anointed “saints”? Dan 7:21; Rev 13:7; Rev 11:7 Has it deceived the anointed and “gathered them together” in one place? Luke 19:43; 21:20; Rev 20:7-9

If the “King of the North” was Russia, why is it that the anointed in other parts of the world are not affected by that power?  God’s chosen people are already at risk of losing their “crown” of life, as are all JWs, by submitting to the “Gentile” elder body/Man of Lawlessness and the Harlot/GB’s lies. Rev 3:11; James 1:12

“The ten horns you saw, and the beast, will hate the prostitute. (the false prophet of Rev 13:11)  They will make her desolate and naked, devour her flesh, and burn her up with fire.¹⁷ For God has put it into their hearts to carry out his plan by having one purpose and to give their kingdom to the beast until the words of God are fulfilled.” Rev 17:16,17

As time has passed, the GB have made their way into the limelight.  Their actions are become very transparent on many fronts and more times than not, in an unsavory light. Already, many people have left the organization, simply because of their rule.  Can you see how God could easily direct the organization to disfellowship them, by bringing more issues to light that will facilitate the necessary removal of their position, in order to save the image of the organization?  2 Pet 3:10; Luke 8:17

What needs to be kept in mind, is that both the Beast from the Sea and the “false prophet”/Harlot/Beast from the Earth, are thrown into the “Lake of Fire” with Satan, at the culmination of Armageddon.  Rev 19:20; 20:10,14     

 

[Space Merchant]

One thing for certain. There are those who say they are of the church of the Christ, but behind the mask that they where, they insert tradition of men and defile God's justice, order and structure and what he is all about, and what his son was all about. Such ones will say they are Christians and yet they do not do any self sacrifice regarding God at all.

When it comes to being in union with the Christ, you can see such by the fruits produce by true ones and the foil pesticide laced fruit produced by those that think they are Christians.

That being said, the non-religious themselves can tell who is really of God and his Christ and who is not within this world of hate in the days of the end times.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

After all is said and done ...  or said with a million words, and NEVER done .....

There is NO ONE ON EARTH that has the authority to fire the Governing Body.

PERIOD.

They as a body  CAN  NOT   be disfellowshipped.

There currently exists NO mechanism to do that.