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A CIRCUIT OVERSEER STATES, "YOUR FAITH IS GARBAGE AND NEEDS TO BE TORN DOWN"

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2 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Amateur drivel 

I agree.

He should have used clip on wireless microphones with the receivers plugged into the mic jack of his video camera,  I have AZDEN mic system that will take two wireless clip-on microphones on separate channels and combine them at the camera. 

It would have made for much more consistent sound when he was outside.   Also ... there was no explanation about what the SUBJECT of his disfellowshipping hearings was all about, ( all hush-hush ... can't tell you...) so it seems that his whole spiel was about an ignorant and clueless CO, of which we know from experience, there is no shortage.

No news there.

I was once explaining to s high ranking Elder type about how I view duty to put up with the shortcomings of the Elders sort of like being in the Marines, and you have to obey the officers even though ..... and he cut me off in a loud angry voice "I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT THE MARINES!" ...  and so I was not able to explain my viewpoint at all.

And that elder had ASKED .... for.... my viewpoint.

What he accuses is entirely believable, ONLY because I have seen similar things over and over and over.  He, however, provided no proof .. or even relatable context to make HIS story anything but noise.

Although the author of this video may have some legitimate concerns, he did not provide any background information, such a "who?, what?, when?, where?, how?, and /or why?", so like his compressed air train horns for his truck, although impressive, had no meaning.

Without enough information to check any story he might be trying to tell for accuracy, it is worth what it is.

NOISE.

Fool me a hundred times   .jpg

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13 minutes ago, Witness said:

It's one video in a series.  This is #10, I believe. 

Since there appears to me to be nothing new here, I will not be watching the previous 9 videos, unless there are  good reasons to, and there does not appear to be any.

How about a quick synopsis?

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People should know D’fd people, pretending to be witnesses. I love this kind of propaganda. Especially when a professed “anointed one” in their own mind clearly stated how they wholeheartedly hate deception. Thanks for making my day. 😁

I liked my suicidal wife part. That’s an attention getter to further the cause. Appeal to how society is viewing current events. LOL! 😁

When a true witness understands what the appeal is, they will understand how ones former thoughts were garbage, and now that that stuff has been thrown away, you have graduated from being a spiritual child to spiritual maturity. 😉

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The word “garbage” is of course propaganda. The word “waste” would be noteworthy. But I do love the spin.

It would fall in line with past thoughts of mistaken Christianity. To our present understanding of the new life in Christ. Rules for Holy living. Put on the new self. Colossians 3:5-14

However, it would be nice to see what the overseer actually said. 😉

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There's a simple message in this video that doesn't require watching all 10 of them, or waiting to hear the "rest of the story".  The reason  I posted it is only to show the contradiction of Watchtower’s teachings, and what the consequences are for not having FAITH in the organization. Rev 13:4  What was told him on the day of baptism is also quoted in the Bible Teach Book:

 Baptism represents something very important. When you are immersed in water, it means that you have died to, or abandoned, your former way of life. When you come out of the water, you will begin a new life doing God’s will. It shows that you will serve Jehovah from now on. Remember that you are not dedicated to a human, an organization, or a work. You have dedicated your life to Jehovah.  "Should I Dedicate My Life to God and be Baptized?"  par 24

Hundreds of people are disfellowshipped every year for rejecting the organization, but STILL maintain their faith in God and Christ.  What the C.O. stated is exactly what the organization believes.  Rev 13:15   If one doesn’t put faith in the organization, their faith is garbage.   

Watchtower 79/3/1, pg 12-18, the article is entitiled, "FAITH IN JEHOVAH'S VICTORIOUS ORGANIZATION"

God is NOT an organization.  We are to put faith only in Him and His Son.  

 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments. Exod 20:4-6

Only those who see the hypocrisy and face the day they question it, will understand what this man is going through.    I just hope there is a JW here asking the same questions as this man has.  

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

The word “garbage” is of course propaganda.

 

3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

However, it would be nice to see what the overseer actually said. 😉

I agree that we (as listeners of this video) are in position to accept or reject this testimony in full or partially. .....BUT..... having knowledge of "the other side" (CO, elders) it would not be surprising that some of them are so sure in own authority and spirituality, self-righteousness to such measure/level in which some of them would dare to make proclamation how someone's faith is "garbage". Of, course we don't know what looks (what was looked) like relationship between CO and this man before this KH parking lot conversation.   

 

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GB Helper quote: "That person's relationship with JHVH is forever ruined. JHVH discards the person like a piece of garbage."

GB terminology: sinful person is garbage

CO terminology: someone's (person's) faith is garbage

"Garbage" is in WTJWORG lexic. And can be using for determining some person's spiritual or literal position inside WTJWORG or in front JHVH God.

 

 

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21 hours ago, Witness said:

Hundreds of people are disfellowshipped every year for rejecting the organization, but STILL maintain their faith in God and Christ. 

It really is not about rejecting the organization, it's because not everyone who has faith in God qualifies to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. It's about rejecting God's standards. For example, you may have faith in God, but believe the Trinity. Or you may have faith in God but see nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas, or practicing homosexuality, or living an immoral life style, or smoking......etc.

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2 hours ago, Anna said:

It really is not about rejecting the organization, it's because not everyone who has faith in God qualifies to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. It's about rejecting God's standards. For example, you may have faith in God, but believe the Trinity. Or you may have faith in God but see nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas, or practicing homosexuality, or living an immoral life style, or smoking......etc.

 

You are saying it is assumed that all those disfellowshipped for rejecting the organization, will reject God's standards as well.  I doubt the elders have the ability to peer into the future and determine that the person they are disfellowshipping , will soon become trinitarians, homosexuals, etc. 

God's standards require rejection of idolatry.  Exod 20: 4,5; Judges 10:14; Isa 44:9;46:3-5; Acts 4:12; 7:49-51; 17:24;25; Rev 13:1:4-7

God's standards require rejection of false prophesy.  Deut 18:20-22; Ezek 13:9; Matt 7:15-20; 24:24; 2 Tim 4:3,4; Acts 20:28-30; 1 John 4:1; Rev 13:11,15

JWs may say they have faith in God, but practice both idolatry and tolerate false prophesy.  

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Practice and tolerance of what is wrong, often times comes very quietly and imperceptibly.

If the premise is correct; the devil rules the world and seduces people. In that case; devil can and do every trickery to spoil what is true and right and justice/correct. In that light, WTJWORG are NOT IMMUNE on the same. Human History, or if you wish more precisely, Bible History, from Adam to nowadays proves this simple and cruel reality.

Every single free moral agent, free will human, proves one and single fact - all are corruptible, can be spoiled by bad and half true or by lie

To have the conviction that an individual or organization is in every respect correct and "having the truth" (religious or some other moral truth) is often the way to appear, to happen just the opposite. Perhaps not necessary on every particular issue. Problem that exist is in this; Organization ask from you, even demand from you to be loyal to all doctrines. They not allows your personal choice to "pick" what you feel as truth, but to carry all what they as Organization found to be The Truth.  

Sometimes, a certain Dilemma, before which we sometimes find ourselves, is the moment when we can be relieved of the trap of the deception in which we fall. But the liberation process of this kind does not always succeed. The fallacy, which is within us, provides a strong resistance and people around us (power of collective/group), who are loyal to the same deceit, working to encourage us to stay in the trap. 

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10 hours ago, Anna said:

It really is not about rejecting the organization, it's because not everyone who has faith in God qualifies to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. It's about rejecting God's standards. For example, you may have faith in God, but believe the Trinity. Or you may have faith in God but see nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas, or practicing homosexuality, or living an immoral life style, or smoking......etc.

@Anna I cannot believe you said / wrote this. Are you drunk ?

I left the JW Org because of God's high standards. Because the GB and it's Org are going against God's high standards. 

Are you totally blind to the Child Abuse within JW Org ?

Are you blind to the shunning of people that leave the JW Org for the right reasons ? 

Are you blind to the lies / misuse of scriptures / changing of use of scriptures ?

Do you think JW's have a higher standard of morals than other people ? 

Are you so blinded by the smokescreen of hypocrisy in the JW Org ? 

Are you so dominated by those 8 men in charge and by the Elders that act as policemen ? 

Sorry Anna, I think that your comment is so naive. 

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5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

 I cannot believe you said / wrote this. Are you drunk ?

John, You should bring it down a few notches. I should say up front that I am not a moderator but was given some admin privileges only to be able to move posts around and keep topics better organized.

So I'm not speaking as any kind of moderator, and I do not have (or condone) the use of those kinds of privileges to discipline or censure people. People can say just about anything they want about another person's beliefs here. But we shouldn't say just anything we want about the individual. We shouldn't presume to impute bad motives or a bad state of mind (as in drunkenness).

I didn't want to respond to a matter before hearing it, so I ended up watching the video. (I use the term "watching" loosely. Because it was YouTube, I was able to turn it up to 2x speed and then repeatedly click forward on the red line so skip about 3 seconds and then watch 3 seconds over and over. This gives the general idea of a 10 minute video in just over 2 minutes.)

I thought the person sounded angry, perhaps understandably, but also very haughty. I thought it interfered with his message, if not his credibility. Seems he and his wife heard a few statements and we have no idea if he is quoting them exactly or really putting them in context. We have to allow that people have different personalities and different views and reactions, but we can't give credit to an idea just because we agree, and then discredit another view (as naive and drunken, for example) just because we disagree.

Instead, we should deal with the subject matter raised, not the specific individual's motives and state of mind.

I also fail at this. Many of us do. But I hope you aren't upset that I point it out.

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7 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

John, You should bring it down a few notches. I should say up front that I am not a moderator but was given some admin privileges only to be able to move posts around and keep topics better organized.

So I'm not speaking as any kind of moderator, and I do not have (or condone) the use of those kinds of privileges to discipline or censure people. People can say just about anything they want about another person's beliefs here. But we shouldn't say just anything they want about the individual. We shouldn't presume to impute bad motives or a bad state of mind (as in drunkenness).

I didn't want to respond to a matter before hearing it, so I ended up watching the video. (I use the term "watching" loosely. Because it was YouTube, I was able to turn it up to 2x speed and then repeatedly click forward on the red line so skip about 3 seconds and then watch 3 seconds over and over. This gives the general idea of a 10 minute video in just over 2 minutes.)

I thought the person sounded angry, perhaps understandably, but also very haughty. I thought it interfered with his message, if not his credibility. Seems he and his wife heard a few statements and we have no idea if he is quoting them exactly or really putting them in context. We have to allow that people have different personalities and different views and reactions, but we can't give credit to an idea just because we agree, and then discredit another view (as naive and drunken, for example) just because we disagree.

Instead, we should deal with the subject matter raised, not the specific individual's motives and state of mind.

I also fail at this. Many of us do. But I hope you aren't upset that I point it out.

@JW Insider Yes I'm upset that you choose to point it out. You are talking like an Elder. This isn't one of your Kingdom Halls so don't try to dominate me. 

Have you ever read Billy the Kid's comments, saying that I need medical attention ?  That's ok is it ? 

And TTH has mentioned my past situation causing me problems etc. 

My comment to Anna was about her comment not about the video. 

OK, let's get down to basics. what exactly was Anna saying about people that reject the JW Org ? 

She was saying that ex-JW's rejected God's standards. I'm an ex JW so does that include me ?

Anna was saying that ex JW's are not good enough to serve God. That is just what the GB and JW Org want people to believe. It's part of the brainwashing. It stops many JW's asking any questions. 

I was hurt by Anna's comment and I'm equally hurt by yours. But then you are both JW's so what more should I expect. 

I think TTH has said this is basically an open forum and we must all accept what others say. Things hurt me and I try to 'let it go by' (quoting Joe Cocker) but I don't expect people to talk down to me as if they are an Elder in a KH. 

Are you an elder ? Your name makes me think you are a 'spy' 'Insider'. Whistleblower.  But probably an Elder too.

Maybe you should stay in the 'Private Club' which is probs more 'soft' for you. 

If @admin thinks I'm out of line I'm sure they will give me a warning or ban me from the forum. 

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I focused on “God’s standards”, but after reading the comment by Srecko and John, I realized I missed this part highlighted :

14 hours ago, Anna said:

It really is not about rejecting the organization, it's because not everyone who has faith in God qualifies to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. It's about rejecting God's standards.

Typically, JWs believe qualifying to be a JW is following God’s standards.    One must enter into a religion formulated by men to “qualify” for life, which is why a person becomes a Mormon, a Seventh Day Adventist or a Catholic.  They gather their flock and pin them down with rituals to be observed and interpretations called doctrine that must be adhered to.  When men rule over men, God’s standards which are based on Christ’s teachings, do not exist.  The captive treasure that the Watchtower uses for its unique validation as “the truth”, are the anointed ones.  Rev 20:7-9; 13:10

 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.  Col 2:8

The “elemental spiritual forces” that instigate the need of an earthly organization, a labeled religion to serve God, is sourced in Satan.   The man in the video who is being slandered because of his desire to put faith in the truths of the Bible, is beginning to wake up to this fact.   He has every reason to be angry.  

 

 

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17 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Yes I'm upset that you choose to point it out. You are talking like an Elder. This isn't one of your Kingdom Halls so don't try to dominate me.

OK.

18 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Have you ever read Billy the Kid's comments, saying that I need medical attention ?  That's ok is it ? 

No it's not OK. I didn't happen to see that one, but I don't doubt you. I've seen similar from him. If you thought that what he said was unnecessarily harsh and judgmental, I hope you or someone else said something. Even if he would have felt like "elders" were trying to dominate him, he should know that such statements are as hurtful as more blatant types of bullying. It's the unnecessarily harsh judgment of the person's motives or state of mind that I think we should avoid.

20 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And TTH has mentioned my past situation causing me problems etc. 

I think I remember that from him -- a couple of times, in fact. I didn't take it as overly harsh but I was sensitive to your reaction. Sometimes we choose to reveal a portion of our background and experience in order to add credibility to our comments. In such cases, we legitimately open up that background itself to scrutiny and assumptions about its relevance, or import. BTK regularly tries to discredit my own experiences and background as either false or ill-motivated. He has that right, because I have given him that right in choosing to share my experiences as they relate to my opinions. I think that to some extent you open yourself up to criticism about your own views when you admit that they are based on experiences. If we don't like your opinions on a matter we might feel cornered by your first-hand knowledge of the issue, at least anecdotally. So our best defense is to say that your opinions are "tainted" by your experience instead of "informed" by your experience. It's a very weak response, but for those who come here to learn about people's experiences, the weakness of that kind of argument against the opinion/experiences probably becomes obvious to others.

46 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

OK, let's get down to basics. what exactly was Anna saying about people that reject the JW Org ?

I'll let her answer that. I admit there were some weaknesses in her argument, with respect to addressing your view of the organization, just as I suspect there were weaknesses in all of our responses. But I appreciate you bringing it back to the basics of what she was saying.

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      Celebrating Jesus’ birthday: “The early Christians did not celebrate [Jesus’] birth because they considered the celebration of anyone’s birth to be a pagan custom.”—The World Book Encyclopedia.
      •December 25: There is no proof that Jesus was born on that date. Church leaders likely chose this date to coincide with pagan festivals held on or around the winter solstice.
      •Gift-giving, feasting, partying: The Encyclopedia Americana says: “Saturnalia, a Roman feast celebrated in mid-December, provided the model for many of the merry-making customs of Christmas. From this celebration, for example, were derived the elaborate feasting, the giving of gifts, and the burning of candles.” The Encyclopædia Britannica notes that “all work and business were suspended” during Saturnalia.
      •Christmas lights: According to The Encyclopedia of Religion, Europeans decorated their homes “with lights and evergreens of all kinds” to celebrate the winter solstice and to combat evil spirits.
      •Mistletoe, holly: “The Druids ascribed magical properties to the mistletoe in particular. The evergreen holly was worshiped as a promise of the sun’s return.”—The Encyclopedia Americana.
      •Christmas tree: “Tree worship, common among the pagan Europeans, survived after their conversion to Christianity.” One of the ways in which tree worship survived is in the custom of “placing a Yule tree at an entrance or inside the house in the midwinter holidays.”—Encyclopædia Britannica.
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    • By Bible Speaks
      @caribbeangiirll shares with us: “My sister and I are out in service working the territory in Curacao, Netherlands Antilles. It was our first time doing territory work here since both of us were living in Canada and took the truth there. We had so much fun sharing the good news here.”
    • By Bible Speaks
      @almaguers123 from Corpus Christi,Texas, USA shares with us: “Our first part as a family!!! My husband finally made the truth his own and was baptized this year. So happy we almost couldn’t contain ourselves. Thanks to Jehovah’s undeserved kindness we are enjoying many blessings together.” Baptisms Corpus Christi Texas USA
    • By Bible Speaks
      "Ride in the cause of truth and humility."—Ps. 45:4.
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