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    JOHN BUTLER

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    • By 4Jah2me
      I do hear occasionally on this forum, the expression of, (oh dear it's gone now), I'll say Basic beliefs, Foundation beliefs, of Jehovah's Witnesses. 
      My point being, when were those basic foundations started ?  Yes we have Russell and Rutherford et al. So who decided what was what and when ? 
      We have things like 'hell fire' eternal damnation' ' soul in continual punishment' etc. But who basically found the truth from God's word about 'The dead are conscious of nothing at all' ?
      Then we have the 'resurrection of the dead',  those being split into heavenly and earthly. Who decided these things from scriptures ? And when ? 
      It would probably take me 10 years, which I probably do not have left, to research all the things I wish to know. 
      So here is a question. From 1960, what new serious Bible knowledge do we have from those whom regard themselves as the F&DS or top of the tree ?
      What have they given to the congregation that is of extreme importance ?  BUT, more importantly what have they given that they haven't changed since giving it ? 
      So we've lost the 7,000 year creative days. We've lost Armageddon in 1975, We've lost no blood / replaced with blood fractions. We've lost the Superior Authorities as God and Christ, and probably lots more. BUT what important beliefs have we gained since 1960 ? What IMPORTANT SCRIPTURAL input have those at the top made since 1960 ? 
       
    • By 4Jah2me
      Point 1. I really do laugh at this term "Only game in town"   As I've said before the JEWISH RELIGIOUS LEADERS would have said that serving God by obeying THEM and the Mosaic Law, was the only game in town. Jesus however proved those Religious leaders to be wrong. Jesus and his disciples carried over the good points of the Mosaic Law and discarded the bits no longer needed. (Such as animal sacrifices, circumcision etc). 
      Russell & Co came out of former religions. I presume they must have carried over some good points from those former religions, then made adjustments or changed doctrines.
      So why would it not be possible for people that have left the JW Org to form a new religion ?  Carrying over the good and disposing of the bad, of which there seems to be plenty....
      I'm not saying it will happen but it does dispose of this idea of 'the only game in town' brainwashing. JW's seem to be taught that there cannot be anything else ever. What if Russell had believed that, the Bible Students would have never been formed. 
      Point 2.  The 'Truth' / JW Org.
      As I read more and more on here I am finding out that the Governing Body / Writing Dept'  / Legal Dept' et al,  have deliberately told many lies.
      The latest I'm reading (on a new topic on here) but the info stems back a while, seems to contain information whereby the 'Org' / those in charge at the time, implied, that children cannot get baptised, and that blood transfusions were acceptable to the Organisation. It seems that this was written in order to get favours from a certain government. 
      Both of those things are lies but seem to be deliberately used for some form of dishonest gain.
      Then of course we have lawyers telling lies in court about shunning. 
      And C.S.A court cases have proved that elders and others have deliberately lied. And the American 'section' of the JW Org deliberately withholding information regarding such matters.
      Link this to misuse of scriptures, such as, Superior Authorities, which deliberately took away people's conscience / freedom of choice, in WW2.
      And I'm sure people here can come up with lots more examples of lies, deliberate wrongdoing, mistakes, misinterpretations, 'new light' corrections et al.
      Why am i writing all this ?  Well I am proving two points. 
      1. If it's your 'only game in town' then it's not a good one. 
      2. That calling it 'The Truth' is totally deceptive.
      I do not think you would like it if I gave you a meal that was three quarters yummy, but a quarter poison. The poison might well contaminate the good food !
      So, saying that the Org / GB are three quarters right does not help. 
       
       
       
       
    • By Bible Speaks
      How did you learn the Truth? 
      I was raised in the Truth. ?

    • By JOHN BUTLER
      "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,"
      2 Timothy 3 v 16
      Was this in it's way a small prophecy ?                 
      The 2nd book of Timothy was written 65 C.E.  However 1,2,3, John and Revelation were written much later.
      So we have two points, 1. The writings were not complete when Paul wrote that information. 2, The Bible had not been constructed so no idea would have been formed as to what the Bible would contain. 
      Were there other writings ? Would they be considered as Scripture? 
      It seems that Paul was inspired to write that "All scripture is inspired.... " 
       
    • By Bible Speaks
      “Send out your light and your truth. May these themselves lead me.” Psalm 43:3.  JEHOVAH is very considerate in the way he makes his purposes known to his servants. Instead of revealing the truth all at once in one blinding flash of light, he enlightens us progressively. Our trek along life’s pathway might be compared to a walk that a hiker takes down a long trail. He starts out early in the morning and sees little. As the sun begins to rise slowly over the horizon, the hiker is able to distinguish a few features of his surroundings. The rest he sees in hazy outline. But as the sun continues its ascent, he can see farther and farther into the distance. So it is with the spiritual light that God provides. He allows us to discern a few things at a time. God’s Son, Jesus Christ, provided spiritual enlightenment in a similar manner. Let us learn how Jehovah enlightened his people in ancient times and how he does so today.

    • By Srecko Sostar
      "clear, pure water of truth" ?? ...and famous question that can be hear from platform and in witnessing "Would you drink water from a glass with just one drop of poison in it?"
       
      Water That Leads to Life
      ..."Jehovah’s Witnesses invite you to taste the pure waters of truth." .....
      [Picture on page 9]
      "You can find the ‘waters of truth’ at your local Kingdom Hall"
       https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102009003
    • By Jack Ryan
      In paragraph 9 of this weeks Watchtower it was talking about how children’s comments at the meetings can prompt newly interested ones to recognise the ring of truth.
      I donÂ’t recall ever hearing it referred to as the ring of truth before. Is this a new phrase theyÂ’re going to try and get everybody using along the lines of, the truth, the brotherhood, this wicked system of things, etc etc.
       
    • By Queen Esther
      THE  TRUTH  ABOUT  CHRISTMAS......
      The year was 1928, when Jehovah's people came to understand the God-dishonoring roots of Christmas. Since then, the pagan roots of Christmas customs have become general public knowledge..... but few people have made changes in their way of life as a result. But, Jehovah's Witnesses are always willing to make the needed changes in order to become more acceptable as servants of Jehovah God.
      When shown that celebrating the birth of Jesus had actually become of greater interest to people than the ransom provided by his death; that the revelry of the holiday and the spirit in which many gifts were given did not honor God;  that the magi whose gift-giving was being imitated were actually demon-inspired astrologers;  that parents set an example for their children in lying by what they told them about Santa Claus;  that  "St. Nicholas"
      (Santa Claus) was admittedly another name for Satan the Devil himself;  and that such festivals were, as acknowledged  by Cardinal Newman in his "Essay on the development of Christian Doctrine" were "the very instruments and appendages of demon-worship"  the church had adopted....  When made aware of these things, Jehovah's Witnesses promptly and permanently ceased having any part in  Christmas  celebrations.
      Jehovah's Witnesses do have good times with their family and friends. But, they do not participate in holidays and celebrations that are linked with pagan gods (as is true of such holidays as Easter, New Year's Day,  May Day and Mother's day).  Read, 2.Cor. 6:14-17.  Like the early Christians,  Jehovah's Witnesses do not even celebrate birthdays. They also respectfully refrain from sharing in national holidays, that memorialize political or military events and also refrain from giving worshipful honor to national heroes.
      WHY ?
      BECAUSE  JEHOVAH'S  WITNESSES  ARE  NO  PART  OF  THE  WORLD !
      Reference, Proclaims Book,  pages  198-200....
      ( by  Brother  Roger B. Elder )     Thank  you  Brother  Elder !
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Transcript - Promoting Love and Respect for Truth.pdf
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
    • By Jack Ryan
      Governments who support “religious freedom” over the equal human rights and dignity of others condone, and even endorse discrimination.

      Tim Rymel, M.Ed., Contributor Author | Educator | Dad
      In April, Russia’s Supreme Court labeled Jehovah’s Witnesses an extremist religious group. “It effectively means that holding their beliefs and manifesting them is tantamount to a criminal act in Russia. They risk new levels of persecution by the Russian authorities,” said international legal counsel, Lorcan Price.
      In America, most of us think of Jehovah’s Witnesses as that occasional Saturday nuisance. They interrupt our morning breakfast or afternoon chores to tell us their version of the Christian faith. They cheerfully drag their families along for quiet strolls through the neighborhoods, and pass out Watchtower Magazines for us to throw away later.
      Annoying? Yes. Disruptive? Usually. But extremist? That depends.
      Growing up in the Pentecostal faith, I was taught that Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and Catholics were not Christians. Anyone who converted to those, or other non-mainstream Christian sects, was deceived by the devil. Though we didn’t use the word “extremist” to define those religions, we certainly saw them as a threat to the true people of God who were susceptible to “false teachings.”
      Religion, to paraphrase Merriam-Webster, is generally a belief in the supernatural with a commitment to keep up the attitudes and practices surrounding that belief. In other words, religion is more than just a belief it is an action. For some, that means attending church on Sundays. For others, it means killing people for believing the wrong things, or believing in the wrong way.
      The BBC noted that Al Qaeda’s purpose is to avenge “wrongs committed by Christians against Muslims.” The organization wants to implement a “single Islamic political leadership,” and drive away non-Muslims from areas it deems belong to the nation of Islam.
      ISIS, on the other hand, is a group of Scriptural fundamentalists who believe all other Muslims are apostates. William McCants, director of the Project on US Relations With the Islamic World at the Brookings Institution, says that ISIS wants “to restore the early Islamic empire called the caliphate and eventually take over the whole world.”
      Most of us can agree that Al Qaeda and ISIS are extremist groups. After all, they plan and implement terrorist attacks. They kill people, sometimes brutally. But is violence the only indicator of religious extremism?
      It could certainly be argued that when a religion becomes violent it becomes extremist. But even Christianity, in it’s many definitions, has a sorted history, which is seldom talked about and often dismissed. From the Spanish inquisition to the convert-or-die tactics used on Native American Indians, Christianity has been used to commit horrific acts of violence throughout the centuries. Judaism, from which Christianity arose, recorded shocking details in the Torah of the slaughter of entire populations, including women, children, and animals.
      Any religion, which purports to, alone, have all truth, and to, alone, have a direct line of communication to God, has a propensity toward extremist ideology. As University of Notre Dame Professor, Gary Gutting, points out:
      Any religion that denies the value and humanity of others is an extremist religion. Whether those actions lead to direct harm, or simply reduce protections through legislation, extremist ideology seeks to create one class that is believed to be more valued than another.
      The grandstanding that fundamentalist Christians have done since marriage equality passed in 2015 has created a growing, and disturbing trend toward extremist Christianity.
      The Oath Keepers, a vigilante Christian group, vowed to protect Kentucky County Clerk, Kim Davis, when she refused issuing a marriage license to a gay couple. They stated the judge in Davis’ case “needs to be put on notice that his behavior is not going to be accepted and we’ll be there to stop it and intercede ourselves if we have to.” And then, in an ironic twist to the story, the infamous Westboro Baptist Church, of “God hates fags” fame, picketed Kim Davis because of her multiple divorces and remarriages.
      Since then, dozens of “religious freedom” bills have been introduced across the country with the sole purpose of reducing or eliminating protections for the LGBT community in housing, employment, benefits, and even where they can go to the bathroom.
      The problem, of course, is that “religious freedom” is based on nothing more than a belief. Governments who support “religious freedom” over the equal human rights and dignity of others condone, and even endorse discrimination. In any such environment religious extremism is the outcome, threatening the very existence of democracy.
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/when-is-a-religion-extremist_us_590de8e3e4b046ea176aeb98
    • By The Librarian
      “What Is Truth?”
      THAT question was cynically posed to Jesus by the Roman Governor Pontius Pilate. He was not interested in an answer, and Jesus did not give him one. Perhaps Pilate viewed truth as too elusive to grasp.
      Pilate indifferently rejected the opportunity to learn such truth. What about you?
      Learn more about Jesus Christ:
       
       
    • By Bible Speaks
      25 "Therefore, now that you have put away deceit, each one of you speak truth with his neighbor, because we are members belonging to one another." (Eph.4:25) NWT
      Don't let your ears witness what your eyes didn't see. Don't let your mouth speak what your heart doesn't  feel.    Live a honest life for Jehovah! 

      IMG_8907.mov
    • By Bible Speaks
      42 "But we have renounced the shameful, underhanded things, not walking with cunning or adulterating the word of God; but by making the truth manifest, we recommend ourselves to every human conscience in the sight of God."
      (2 Cor. 4:2)

    • By Bible Speaks
      15O Jehovah, who may
             be a guest in your tent?
      Who may reside in your holy mountain?
       2 The one who is walking faultlessly,
      Practicing what is right
      And speaking the truth in his heart."
                 (Psalm 15:1,2)       Do not let your mouth say       what your heart doesn't feel. 
    • By Bible Speaks
      What Does the Bible Say About Christmas? ???????
      The Bible’s answer
      The Bible does not give the date of Jesus’ birth, nor does it say that we should celebrate his birthday. As McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia states: “The observance of Christmas is not of divine appointment, nor is it of NT [New Testament] origin.” Instead, an examination of the history of Christmas exposes its roots in pagan religious rites. The Bible shows that we offend God if we try to worship him in a way that he does not approve of.—Exodus 32:5-7.  History of Christmas customs
      Celebrating Jesus’ birthday: “The early Christians did not celebrate [Jesus’] birth because they considered the celebration of anyone’s birth to be a pagan custom.”—The World Book Encyclopedia.
      •December 25: There is no proof that Jesus was born on that date. Church leaders likely chose this date to coincide with pagan festivals held on or around the winter solstice.
      •Gift-giving, feasting, partying: The Encyclopedia Americana says: “Saturnalia, a Roman feast celebrated in mid-December, provided the model for many of the merry-making customs of Christmas. From this celebration, for example, were derived the elaborate feasting, the giving of gifts, and the burning of candles.” The Encyclopædia Britannica notes that “all work and business were suspended” during Saturnalia.
      •Christmas lights: According to The Encyclopedia of Religion, Europeans decorated their homes “with lights and evergreens of all kinds” to celebrate the winter solstice and to combat evil spirits.
      •Mistletoe, holly: “The Druids ascribed magical properties to the mistletoe in particular. The evergreen holly was worshiped as a promise of the sun’s return.”—The Encyclopedia Americana.
      •Christmas tree: “Tree worship, common among the pagan Europeans, survived after their conversion to Christianity.” One of the ways in which tree worship survived is in the custom of “placing a Yule tree at an entrance or inside the house in the midwinter holidays.”—Encyclopædia Britannica. https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/bible-about-christmas/

    • By Bible Speaks
      @caribbeangiirll shares with us: “My sister and I are out in service working the territory in Curacao, Netherlands Antilles. It was our first time doing territory work here since both of us were living in Canada and took the truth there. We had so much fun sharing the good news here.”
    • By Bible Speaks
      @almaguers123 from Corpus Christi,Texas, USA shares with us: “Our first part as a family!!! My husband finally made the truth his own and was baptized this year. So happy we almost couldn’t contain ourselves. Thanks to Jehovah’s undeserved kindness we are enjoying many blessings together.” Baptisms Corpus Christi Texas USA
    • By Bible Speaks
      "Ride in the cause of truth and humility."—Ps. 45:4.
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    • Kinda reminds me of a ringer. No! No! No! Don’t try to turn the table. It’s all about you and your accusations and being absolute. I have no one to impress. However, I don’t know if you understand what disclosure means. Maybe you’re not bound by laws, I am. Although when Barbara Anderson sued the Watchtower she lost. Did he tell you? Maybe you should dig deeper in your research. What you're saying, Jesus gave you that solid proof. Are you Joseph Smith? Work on your own grammar mistakes before you criticize someone else.  
    • César Chávez said:     Quite so. And since they are all truthful (except for Bowen), as opposed to JW leaders and their Writing Department, not believing them is not believing facts. Do you have any factual, logical reasons not to believe these people? They set forth all manner of indisputable facts. What can you offer? How do you know the allegations are false? Did God tell you? No, that's just one piece of evidence. The most solid piece is that the GB saw fit to remove him from the GB and reassign him to duty in the UK. Or do you have information that is more believable than what the GB based their actions on? Even if Jesus himself gave you that evidence, you most likely would not believe it. Two completely different situations. JW apologists, especially on this forum, routinely defend the GB only with emotionally based arguments, not facts and logical reasoning. As for proof, describe what sort of proof you would accept. When you try to nitpick you'd better be sure your nitpicks are on the money. Yours are not. What I said was (note the 's' on the end of 'apologists'): << The self-righteous JW apologists on this forum are pitiful. >> A lesson in English (I think this applies in Spanish, too): A word like "apologists" is plural. Plural words are normally accompanied by "are" not "is". Comprende? Anna said: Well then, it won't have any GB members in it, past or present, who demand virtual worship from JWs. Or the many JW apologists who lie through their teeth to defend Mommy Watchtower. Back in 1994, in a conversation with GB member Albert Schroeder, I challenged him with a text from Luke that obviously condemned JW end-times teaching. He was blindsided. His defense? "That scripture can't apply to us, because we're Jehovah's people!" Wow! Defending Watchtower teaching by denying that the Bible applies to JWs. That hypocrisy is endemic to the JW religion. LOL! Coming from someone who NEVER contributes anything of value, that's rich!
    • Sigh.... He’s back. Arguing with every single point, as was his wont, even the ones inconsequential to the thread—like the retort to the unreasonably chatty greeting from JWI with mention of concern of his atheism.  This is the fellow that The Librarian told me privately, “Please stop arguing with Alan.” She knew what I was then finding out—that under no circumstances will he ever yield the final word. I did stop, and sure enough, he went away. But he’s back. Leading off with an insult to Trump, no less, though it has absolutely nothing to do with anything, and will likely fall flat to an apolitical audience, and those not apolitical will divide 50/50, so that he will unnecessarily antagonize some that he is trying to convince. Still he must get it in, and thus reveals—much as I hate to attribute wisdom to @James Thomas Rook Jr. that he has full-blown TDS and identifies with the leftists. He’s back. Oozing with contempt for anyone with whom he disagrees: “So are you claiming you don't worship the Governing Body? Don't let your fellows know, or you'll be disfellowshipped for apostasy,” he taunts.   
    • Something like what you are doing? What you are saying, witnesses should believe ex-witnesses. How does that make sense? Why should I believe anything an Ex-GB had to say in his book? Then you have no proof. Why should anyone believe anything you have to contribute? More hearsay. However, I know of your affiliation with AD1914 CARM. It doesn't impress me one bit.  I have. I also know many cases have been overturned. So how about giving some concrete evidence instead of dead talking points? I believe you were directing your comment to AlanF in which case I responded to. I think you need to put on your spectacles sister if you think I was talking about you. Don't be so quick to judge when you have erred.   New International Frontiers in Child Sexual Abuse 2019 Theory, Problems and Progress General Prevalence The reported prevalence of CSA continues to be disturbingly high. A recent meta-analysis found high levels of victimisation in most nations for both girls and boys; globally, 1 in 8 children (12.7%) had suffered CSA, with rates of 18% for girls and 7.6% for boys (Stoltenborgh et al. 2011). Even in the USA, where substantial efforts have been dedicated to prevention for several decades, and where there is some evidence to indicate a decline in recent years, the most recent national study found that 21.7% of all 14- to 17-year-olds reported experiencing some form of sexual victimisation in their childhood, and in the past year, 16.4% of girls and 9.4% of boys aged 14–17 reported such an experience (Finkelhor et al. 2015). These data included 12.9% of girls and 5.1% of boys aged 14–17 reporting they had experienced attempted or completed rape. A national study from 2006 in the USA found 4.5% of participants reported experiencing contact CSA by a parent or adult caregiver, before sixth grade (Hussey et al. 2006).  Developing Nations In Yemen, where there are no laws setting an age for marriage or criminalising rape in marriage, families made desperate by war and hunger are selling their daughters as child brides. Child brides are exposed to daily rape and beating (Youssef 2017). The market in China for trafficked and enslaved child brides from other countries such as Myanmar is growing (Baker 2017). Despite recent progress, child marriage remains a massive problem, with an estimated 700 million women alive today being married as a child.  Western Nations In Western nations, this problem is exemplified by recent selected events in the USA, France, Australia, and the UK. In the USA, a substantial number of states have amended civil statutes of limitation to give survivors of child sexual abuse a more reasonable amount of time in which to commence civil legal proceedings for compensation for their injuries. However, many other states, including Massachusetts, New York, and Pennsylvania, have resisted reform, influenced by powerful institutions – most notably the Catholic Church and Agudath Israel of America. Some have described the strategies used by the Catholic Church as “mafia-like” (Kirchgaessner 2016).  England In England, a number of scandals have been revealed regarding organized criminal gangs that have been operating with impunity for years on a mass scale, with a succession of revelations of entire towns being epicentres of CSA. In these cases, the criminal gangs have comprised exclusively or mostly men from British-Asian backgrounds, with this thought to have been one factor influencing authorities’ reluctance to intervene due to a fear of being perceived as racially motivated.  Definition of the Concept In Chap. 2, I will cover in much more detail the complex problem of defining the term “child sexual abuse”. It is a contested concept, and different definitions have been used in research, policy, epidemiology and law. Child sexual abuse is generally understood at a minimum to include a range of acts covering penetrative abuse, masturbation, oral sex, fondling, and involvement in pornography, and other acts to sexually gratify the abuser in circumstances where the child cannot or does not give true consent. The World Health Organization (1999, 2006) states child sexual abuse occurs when the child is involved “in sexual activity that he or she does not fully comprehend, is unable to give informed consent to, or for which the child is not developmentally prepared and cannot give consent, or that violate the laws or social taboos of society”.
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