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A CIRCUIT OVERSEER STATES, "YOUR FAITH IS GARBAGE AND NEEDS TO BE TORN DOWN"

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10 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

regurgitation from mother wt.  no real thoughts of your own I see.

I guess no different from those brainwashed thoughts against the Watchtower you have. When you decide to say something intelligent, speak to John or James, they enjoy obtuse commentaries, since my views come from scripture, not from the Watchtower. Read the Bible, you might learn something. Then teach it to James and John, so they can blame you for quoting scripture and attack your faith or the organization you attend.

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3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

That's a very revealing statement about where you would love to live, but it would certainly explain a Lot (and Lot's wife, even more so).

Yikes! should I apply your own wisdom here? Something tells me, your intelligence is diminishing, TTH

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10 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

WDS ... the gift that keeps on giving.

Well, at least I'm giving. What is your humorless interaction give but a stain in social life? I think the ones that are drunk are people like you and John. So, don't be stingy, share!

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2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But there is a big difference between profanity against an ideology and directing profanity at a specific person. For example, you are well aware, I'm sure, that that "Allen Smith" was banned after repeated warnings not about profanities but about wild, raging rants that were directed at specific people. Allen acted the part of a cyber-bully. He was not just judgmental but was threatening. Personally I felt badly for persons who might have felt bullied and threatened, but I also considered that all the persons who participated here had already seen many examples from him, that ranged from pathetic to deranged. Therefore, it was likely understood that his threats were not actually meaningful and they therefore carried more "entertainment" value than anything else.

Do you have examples where this Allen Smith used profanity to others or in this forum? it seems to be a serious allegation that merits proof. I hope you do, and are not blowing smoke, and are deliberately lying to move away from your own horrid conduct, I'll be waiting for that proof.

That way we can compare what the word "bullying" means especially to someone like you that insulted my life giver regardless of how many times you wish to have others think you didn't. That's just contempt in your part, not mind. Therefore, we can see what kind of bullying goes around here especially to have someone like you accept an apostate ideology that consists of nothing more than bullying from opposers.

Then people can see how you want to use double standards to rebuke one person but not others. That way TTH, your hypocrisy continues to know no bounds. This will also prove, that 99% of the nonsense in this forum is for "entertainment" purposes that have no other value except that. 😋

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7 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Well it's good that Jesus Christ read the heart of Saul, when Saul was persecuting the early Christians isn't it ? Otherwise the Apostle Paul would not have existed.

Isn't this something we all should remember? 

 

Great point John

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11 hours ago, Anna said:

My answer was to" Witness" who suggested that faith in God was enough to please God, and therefor those who leave the org. but still have faith in God are "ok".

Is that really what I said, Anna?

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Oh @JW Insider it's probably not worth the effort to answer you but I have a bit of time before my darling wife puts my dinner on the table for me.

Let's start with a Quote "You probably know that there were infamous cases of immorality that Paul referred to in his letters even to the very Corinthian congregations that Paul himself had "planted." 

Are look Paul made the immorality known. Whereas, the Elders of the JW congregations hid it all in leters to their HQ and in filing cabinets. Why did the elders hide it ? Because on instructions from the GB. That's why it is all coming into the open now. It follows scripture about 'nothing being hidden that will not be revealed' ...

Quote " But when the Org sees it as a problem, .. "  The Org didn't see it as a problem. It was put 'in their face' by victims of abuse. The problem the GB saw was the cost of the court cases and compensations. 

Why do you use examples of people 'of the world' such as Isaac Newton etc ? They were not 'supposed to be guided by God's Holy Spirit' were they ? 

Your GB pretend to be the 'Faithful and discreet slave' providing the PROPER FOOD at the RIGHT TIME'.  BUT they have to keep changing the food as they give poison instead. So how can they be guided by God to do that ? Do you really think God deliberately misguides His people ? 

Quote "I can't see how it "suits themselves."  The Armageddon threats are obviously to frighten people to get baptised and serve the JW Org. I'm sure we've had quotes on here where the Watchtowers would say the only way to 'get saved' through Armageddon was to be in the Org. More members = more donations.  But then, as with the 7,000 year creative days, it all falls apart and can be seen as lies.  

Quote "the inability to question 1914" ? Are you suggesting more lies ? 

Quote "It's now just a matter of fully implementing the processes that have been put in place." And the two witness rule, what of that ? I'm sure in my own mind that the scripture was not for that use. 

Quote " I  think we agree completely on shunning. I have no doubt at all that we have been implementing the shunning practice in an unchristian, unscriptural, and unloving manner. "

So are we looking at a 100% turnaround on it then ? I very much doubt that.  Remember ,'By their works you will know them'.

Quote " I would never claim we are more moral than any other group of people.".  That's one thing we can agree on then. :) 

But that being the case, thousands of JW's are hypocrites. So it's an unclean Org. 

Quote "If enough Witnesses perform their Christian duty, however, even a mass of disfellowshippings will automatically produce changes. "

I was hoping for a mass 'leaving the JW Org when I left, but it didn't happen. I was hoping that would have produced change.

Enough for now , my wife is calling me to dinner. 

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4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

You are asking how it can be logical I guess that someone can be right on some things and not on others. I think you probably already know of many examples. Isaac Newton was right on a surprising number of things, but was wrong on some things,

If you don't mind for my interruption in your's conversation. 

Isaac Newton or other similar person hasn't, as i know, created Organization in which people will worship someone or something. Isaac not made GB of self and few friends of him who interpreted Bible or some other Holy Book.

Religious nation as JW members, expecting more from GB than followers of Isaac would expected from him. Isaac was not made statements how he and his friends are only channel for spiritual food. :))

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Just as with Rutherford, I can't see how it "suits themselves." It's because of misinformation that they have believed for the same reason that we have believed it. GB are chosen not because of their ability to question, but because of their "loyalty."

Saul of Tarsus believed in his strong "misinformation", that was based on Scriptures. He was "chosen" by JHVH for two  task. One task was to persecute Jesus's followers. Second task was that to put Saul under power that will change his "suited misinformation" and his wrong, misdirected "loyalty".  

Would Saul became Paul without his "wrong" way of worshiping? In fact, What was wrong with his faith in God when Scriptures teaches him to be zealous for JHVH name and to excommunicate (prosecute and persecute) all Jew who not worship god according to the Law?  

Dear JW Insider. Can i, by some of your perspective, make conclusion, how GB are in same/similar position and how in their "loyalty" and "misinformation zealous" also making forms of "prosecution and persecution" of those who disagree with the GB Law, because they see how their (god's) Organizing and Interpretations of Divine Will is Process of Rowing to the Some More Perfect and Final Point of worshiping god in the future? 

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I have heard persons say that they wish they could only hire Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses,

This is interesting. I have some specific personal experience about this. In one period of time i was jobless, and working many jobs including gardening. One day (between 2002-2005 i think) sister Tekla, while working on reception desk in Zagreb Betel received telephone call from one woman (Adventist) who are looking for JW who will gardening (shearing the grass and similar) in her garden. Tekla called me and i made phone call to this Lady and was working there for several seasons. Well, this Adventist woman was show more confident in JW than in her brothers from her congregation :))  (A little self praise and humor  - she was lucky that i was that one who get this call from Betel ahahhaha)      

 

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6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Are look Paul made the immorality known. Whereas, the Elders of the JW congregations hid it all in leters to their HQ and in filing cabinets. Why did the elders hide it ? Because on instructions from the GB. That's why it is all coming into the open now. It follows scripture about 'nothing being hidden that will not be revealed'

OK. I see where you are coming from on this now. I don't know that the GB instructed the hiding from authorities and others in the congregation, but they certainly have known about the hiding, and have gone along with it, and could have ordered exposure of the problem instead of continued hiding. (In the past, hiding apparently happened in most, but not in all cases.) From that perspective, exposure of such crimes and sins would undoubtedly have reduced the problem. Especially the problem of repeat offenders. There are some cases that will probably never come to light in this system due to the systemic nature of trying to protect the reputation of an organization and leaders at the expense of protecting children.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Quote " But when the Org sees it as a problem, .. "  The Org didn't see it as a problem. It was put 'in their face' by victims of abuse. The problem the GB saw was the cost of the court cases and compensations.

They were late in their correct responses to this problem, in my opinion, but they do see it as a problem. Even if it's exposure and cost. But I know that many have seen it as a problem of justice for the victims, too. Unfortunately, that had previously been dismissed by some in power as less important.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Why do you use examples of people 'of the world' such as Isaac Newton etc ? They were not 'supposed to be guided by God's Holy Spirit' were they ?

Just an analogy to show how someone can be both right and wrong at the same time.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Your GB pretend to be the 'Faithful and discreet slave' providing the PROPER FOOD at the RIGHT TIME'.  BUT they have to keep changing the food as they give poison instead.

There are huge scriptural problems with this claim of the GB to be the exact and complete fulfillment of the FDS. I've dealt with that elsewhere. But we can't forget that it is a Christian duty to try to feed spiritual food to fellow Christians. The GB truly believe this is their duty and they also know that they are not perfect, and must admit to providing wrong guidance at times and sometimes bad spiritual food, too, in the form of false doctrines and false predictions. They probably thought them right at the time, but you are right, that it was not all 'food at the proper time.' 

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So how can they be guided by God to do that ? Do you really think God deliberately misguides His people ? 

People guided by God have made mistakes in Biblical times, when the very same persons had the privilege of seeing Jesus personally, or were even inspired at other times to write books of the Bible. Yet, the GB make no such claim about themselves that they are inspired in this same way. They feel that intensive Bible study, organizational experience, faith in Jehovah, meditation and prayer will all combine in some spiritual way to guide them. Other people have made claims that they claim inspiration, and the distinction gets blurry. And some Witnesses teach "present" truth as immutable in such a way that they, too, have blurred the distinction. In any case, God is not misguiding. It's just that people are so imperfect that we must learn to trust and obey God as ruler rather than sons of men in whom no salvation belongs.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Quote "the inability to question 1914" ? Are you suggesting more lies ? 

No. The inability to question something is often because something just seems so clear and obvious that we just can't imagine that it could ever be wrong. Or it has been repeated so often that we can't imagine it could be wrong. We don't question things we are "sure" of. It happens to all of us, and then we might be surprised some day to find out we were wrong after all. But by not questioning, we probably will never have to find out.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But that being the case, thousands of JW's are hypocrites. So it's an unclean Org.

So the early Corinthian congregation must also have been an unclean organization. Jesus' organization of his apostles must have been an unclean organization, too.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So are we looking at a 100% turnaround on it then ? I very much doubt that.  Remember ,'By their works you will know them'.

I think it will come close to that. It won't come immediately, but there will be some countries soon, I think, where we won't be allowed to preach unless we stop shunning family members for example. We will agree, and shunning will become a personal, private thing. Most Witnesses don't want to shun, we just do it because we are told it is loving. When there is no longer any threat of getting in trouble for not shunning, most of us will see that it is more loving not to shun. The change will happen organically from that point.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Enough for now , my wife is calling me to dinner.

Food at the proper time.

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well, this Adventist woman was show more confident in JW than in her brothers from her congregation :))

That experience could be used at the next convention. Of course, it could be for other reasons. I know some Witnesses here who don't want other Witnesses doing their lawns and landscaping out of concern for privacy among the friends, or just to avoid business dealings and potential misunderstandings. We also had a brother in our congregation who ran a gas station only a quarter mile from the KH, and he was so taken advantage of that an announcement had to be made from the platform that brothers should pay their debts and not expect credit when doing business with fellow Witnesses.

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I had a Brother call me up at 7:30 in the morning, many years ago, asking in desperate need if I had any money I could lend him.  I checked my resources, and told him I had $4.00, which I was planning to use for lunch money that day, but he was welcome to that.

...... and he hung up on me.

That hamburger at lunch was especially delicious !

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4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

OK. I see where you are coming from on this now. I don't know that the GB instructed the hiding from authorities and others in the congregation, but they certainly have known about the hiding, and have gone along with it, and could have ordered exposure of the problem instead of continued hiding. (In the past, hiding apparently happened in most, but not in all cases.) From that perspective, exposure of such crimes and sins would undoubtedly have reduced the problem. Especially the problem of repeat offenders. There are some cases that will probably never come to light in this system due to the systemic nature of trying to protect the reputation of an organization and leaders at the expense of protecting children.

According to who, you, Anna, James? that's laughable. But now you can be friends with John. That's what opposers go for, to have a conflicted person saying I'm a witness when they are not. But all these conclusions fit nicely with the post, it's all garbage. Since you like making serious allegations, I hope you have proof. I will challenge your idiotic allegations. Where's your proof the GB instructed anyone to destroy, hide, burn documents. Where's your proof, Allen Smith used profanity and you warned that person. Where's the proof, that was a reason that person was "deleted" while RYAN continues as a member. I contacted that person, and that person is mounting a legal challenge for you personally. Therefore, don't weasel your way out, the posts have been recorded.

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BillyTheKid46:

I have somewhere in my 12TB array of 4TB USB hard drives documents from the WT that prove all the assertions you deny here and now. In about two days time I could find, correlate and present them to you .... but in the meantime my recollections only will have to give testimony that you are suffering from a major case of agenda driven WDS .

Since you are a Jehovah's Witness in good standing, I will give you a 20% discount to search for them, print them out for you and mail them to you .... after your check clears the bank.

My usual rate is $105 an hour, and I would need a two day's retainer to get started.  I would refund any funds not used.

Care to put your money where your mouth is?

 

 

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James Thomas Rook Jr

It might be you have about 2TB’s of false allegations and speculations marred with personal assumptions. The same kind of stored information by dimwitted apostates.

However, I wouldn’t allow such a damaged person mail what would be clearly tainted material without the option of a refund.

But if you wish to take the challenge JWinsider, AKA TrueTom, I will go one step further to allow a secular court deliberate on such a matter with your supplied information. However, If the evidence does not satisfy the court, I will compel the court to charge you personally.

Care to take the Challenge?

Therefore, In God I trust, and slanders go to jail.

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19 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

deliberate faults of JW Org. 

Whether this is deliberate or not is a matter of opinion of course. In any case, I would hesitate to say that anyone makes deliberate mistakes unless they are truly evil. So you are suggesting that the GB are evil. Well, I do not think they are evil.

19 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Quote " For example there are those who condone things that God hates and implicitly rejects (eg. practicing homosexuals). "

I see you didn't mention Pedophilia then. You really are blind. 

No one condones Pedophilia.

19 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

That is because those people serve the Org as their god. They do not look for truth, they are just spoonfed and accept it all. Even when the meanings of scriptures are changed by the GB or writing dept', the congregants do not even question it, they dare not for fear of being disfellowshipped. Those poor people do not know any other life, they are trapped inside that giant bubble, and frightened to look for God themselves. They rely on men that are not anointed with Holy Spirit, to guide them. The blind leading the blind, and we know what happens next. 

You make very general sweeping statements here about what and how Witnesses believe. Most of the Witnesses I know (I would say 99.9%) have a deep and private relationship with God themselves, with Jesus as their mediator. It must be just your idea to somehow involve a third party, the GB,  in this relationship. I do not know anyone who does that!

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2 hours ago, Anna said:

It must be just your idea to somehow involve a third party, the GB,  in this relationship

That seems to be the trouble with those who apostatize in this manner. They were idolators themselves, but having realised it, they just can't come clean and admit it, they have to accuse everyone else in the organisation they have now renounced of the very practice they themselves engaged in.

They turn themselves into "once-duped" but now "enlightened"victims to gain sympathy and acclaim from their newfound peers. Their self-appointed crusade might provide some temporary relief for the resentment and embarrassment they feel, but needs constant repetition.  

The sad thing is that they think they left the organisation they now oppose. But, actually, they were rejected. :(

1John 2:19: "They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort."

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5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

James Thomas Rook Jr

It might be you have about 2TB’s of false allegations and speculations marred with personal assumptions. The same kind of stored information by dimwitted apostates.

However, I wouldn’t allow such a damaged person mail what would be clearly tainted material without the option of a refund.

But if you wish to take the challenge JWinsider, AKA TrueTom, I will go one step further to allow a secular court deliberate on such a matter with your supplied information. However, If the evidence does not satisfy the court, I will compel the court to charge you personally.

Care to take the Challenge?

Therefore, In God I trust, and slanders go to jail.

Spoken like a true arrogant WT lawyer .... or Gerritt Losch.

The bottom line is, you said NO, to my challenge.

 

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      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. "But we have renounced the shameful, underhanded things, not walking with cunning or adulterating the word of God; but by making the truth manifest, we recommend ourselves to every human conscience in the sight of God."
      (2 Cor. 4:2)

    • By Bible Speaks
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. O Jehovah, who may
             be a guest in your tent?
      Who may reside in your holy mountain?
        Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. The one who is walking faultlessly,
      Practicing what is right
      And speaking the truth in his heart."
                 (Psalm 15:1,2)       Do not let your mouth say       what your heart doesn't feel. 
    • By Bible Speaks
      What Does the Bible Say About Christmas? ???????
      The Bible’s answer
      The Bible does not give the date of Jesus’ birth, nor does it say that we should celebrate his birthday. As McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia states: “The observance of Christmas is not of divine appointment, nor is it of NT [New Testament] origin.” Instead, an examination of the history of Christmas exposes its roots in pagan religious rites. The Bible shows that we offend God if we try to worship him in a way that he does not approve of.—Exodus 32:5-7.  History of Christmas customs
      Celebrating Jesus’ birthday: “The early Christians did not celebrate [Jesus’] birth because they considered the celebration of anyone’s birth to be a pagan custom.”—The World Book Encyclopedia.
      •December 25: There is no proof that Jesus was born on that date. Church leaders likely chose this date to coincide with pagan festivals held on or around the winter solstice.
      •Gift-giving, feasting, partying: The Encyclopedia Americana says: “Saturnalia, a Roman feast celebrated in mid-December, provided the model for many of the merry-making customs of Christmas. From this celebration, for example, were derived the elaborate feasting, the giving of gifts, and the burning of candles.” The Encyclopædia Britannica notes that “all work and business were suspended” during Saturnalia.
      •Christmas lights: According to The Encyclopedia of Religion, Europeans decorated their homes “with lights and evergreens of all kinds” to celebrate the winter solstice and to combat evil spirits.
      •Mistletoe, holly: “The Druids ascribed magical properties to the mistletoe in particular. The evergreen holly was worshiped as a promise of the sun’s return.”—The Encyclopedia Americana.
      •Christmas tree: “Tree worship, common among the pagan Europeans, survived after their conversion to Christianity.” One of the ways in which tree worship survived is in the custom of “placing a Yule tree at an entrance or inside the house in the midwinter holidays.”—Encyclopædia Britannica.
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • By Bible Speaks
      @caribbeangiirll shares with us: “My sister and I are out in service working the territory in Curacao, Netherlands Antilles. It was our first time doing territory work here since both of us were living in Canada and took the truth there. We had so much fun sharing the good news here.”
    • By Bible Speaks
      @almaguers123 from Corpus Christi,Texas, USA shares with us: “Our first part as a family!!! My husband finally made the truth his own and was baptized this year. So happy we almost couldn’t contain ourselves. Thanks to Jehovah’s undeserved kindness we are enjoying many blessings together.” Baptisms Corpus Christi Texas USA
    • By Bible Speaks
      "Ride in the cause of truth and humility."—Ps. 45:4.
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