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TrueTomHarley

There is Nothing New Under the Sun

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We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have taken advantage of no one.” (2 Corinthians 7:2)

“Nevertheless, you say, I was “crafty” and I caught you “by trickery.” (2 Corinthians 12:16)

”There is nothing new under the sun” (Ecclesiastes 1:9)

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3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have taken advantage of no one.” (2 Corinthians 7:2)

“Nevertheless, you say, I was “crafty” and I caught you “by trickery.” (2 Corinthians 12:16)

”There is nothing new under the sun” (Ecclesiastes 1:9)

So, are you comparing the apostles to the governing body and the organization?  Just asking.

I agree with scripture, there is “nothing new under the sun”, except for its magnitude in the last days.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Witness said:

So, are you comparing the apostles to the governing body and the organization?  Just asking.

I was comparing them to you and your constant complaining that have shoved you out of the spot where you think you belong. Just answering.

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I was comparing them to you and your constant complaining that have shoved you out of the spot where you think you belong. Just answering.

Maybe you were, maybe you weren't.  Just in case you were...

 What I “preach” about concerns the condition of “craftiness” that you and the anointed ones live under.  Personally, I feel relief knowing that I can now approach God and Jesus without anyone telling me how to do it.  This is what God wants for us, an authentic personal relationship with Him and His Son.  It's called stepping out of the darkness and into the light of Christ.  John 8:12; 1:4,5; 2 Cor 4:6; 1 Pet 2:9

My disfellowshipping was a spiritual “killing” for “apostasy”.  I was told if ever I changed my mind, I would be considered for reinstatement, which is such a laughable proposition.  I would be reinstated into an organization.  I would not be "returning to Jehovah" because God and the organization are two different entities.  Isa 46:5  One, is a practicing lie under the presence of the “man of lawlessness”. Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4  It is a "god of fortress" set up by a "king" who rules over spiritual Zion, the true Temple of God.  It is a "god unknown to his ancestors", that "he will honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts."  Dan 11:38

The organization is the "different" Beast, that arises to trample the anointed ones. God's chosen people have never had to face anything like it, until now.    Dan 7:7; Rev 13:1,2,7  It holds authority over the "saints"...and you.  

If you would just open your spiritual eyes…

2 Thess 2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us(apostles, with whom many JWs compare with the GB) whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. (1914) Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness  is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, (the anointed ones 1 Cor 3:16,17) proclaiming himself to be God.

God's Temple is not "Jehovah's spiritual temple", otherwise known as the organization - that "different" Beast.  It is in the hearts of the anointed ones.    1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22

Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper timeFor the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. 2 Thess 2:1-12

Before God's people have ever suffered destruction, He revealed His message to His servants and sent them to warn His people of their pending doom. 

 “Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets”  Amos 3:7

These servants were considered the one's telling the lie by the majority of the people. They were viewed as crazy, with a message of little use.  Think of all the prophets God sent and the people's reactions.  

"They say to the seers, 'See no more visions!' and to the prophets, 'Give us no more visions of what is right! Tell us pleasant things, prophesy illusions.'"  Isa 30:10

Revelation is a book that God reveals to His servants (the anointed ones) who care to heed it's message.  Rev 3:18  It is a warning message concerning the sins of God's holy people, just as He has made known when His people fell into sin throughout the ages.  Rev 1:1 

Your leaders offer you a spiritual paradise of peace and security. This is their "prophetic" message. Jeremiah dealt with this same issue among Israel.

"The dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious.  "Peace, peace", they say, when there is no peace".  Jer 8:11

Look around you, can't you see there really  is no peace in the organization?  It cannot save you from the nations as God did for His people when they obeyed His directions.  Isa 48:18   If you had eyes that were open to the sins committed by God's people you would see the lie for what it actually is.  You would understand that you "serve the lie."

Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.  1 Thess 5:1-3

By the way, God doesn't choose the prominent ones to get His message across.   He chooses the despised ones, those least expected to carry His message.  1 Cor 4:13   But, of course, those who are despised are viewed as the haughty ones, while those who are held in "high esteem", get away with murder.  Gal 2:6; John 16:2-4; Matt 5:11,12; Rev 13: 11,12,15; 11:1-3,7-10

I am not surprised at what you think about me.  I also am not surprised at how you value the GB who have successfully pulled the wool over your eyes.  Matt 23:12

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Witness said:

Maybe you were, maybe you weren't.  Just in case you were...

Sigh.....

I answered a little snarkily because I was trying to avoid what i got anyway—yet another endless tirade that amounts to little more than they, the ‘bad’ anointed are doing it wrong and you, as one of the outmaneuvered ‘good’ anointed, would do it better.

I just can’t take it anymore.

No, I do not think they are the apostles. Nor do they. Yes, they are taking the lead of those who brought an accurate understanding of the Bible to me.

I mean, it’s not as though I heard it from you.

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26 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I mean, it’s not as though I heard it from you.

If I have an opportunity to share truth, I will.  I know you are not the only fish in the pond who comes here to read.  Matt 13:47-50

Besides, wasn't it you who kept asking me questions and resurrecting a recent thread?  

 

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1 hour ago, Witness said:

Besides, wasn't it you who kept asking me questions and resurrecting a recent thread?  

 

Sigh......

Yes, it is because I am thinking of leaving the faith and I knew that you must have all the answers.

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41 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Sigh......

Yes, it is because I am thinking of leaving the faith and I knew that you must have all the answers.

Huh.  It would be a miracle if you "left" your faith in the organization.  But, marvelous things do happen.     

I have full confidence in knowing the answer to this question. 

“After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him. 67 So Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?”68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go?  John 6:66-68

Sigh... I fear you may not know the right answer, since your leaders always throw you a curve ball. It’s interesting how those who turn to Jesus Christ, once leaving the WT,  speak about Christ, not feeling the need to continually back up his words with “organization” or, “faithful and discreet slave”.   Does God reject them for doing so?  Will they survive WT's rendition of Armageddon?  They are "killed" by your leaders for following Jesus Christ.  Rev 13:15; 11:7

These are the things I know.  

 

 

 

 

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For almost two years, I have read many outrages idealism coming from opposers. I find it disheartening to know how embedded they have become to do Satan’s bidding in a natural world.

For almost two years, I have read some within the Watchtower brotherhood compare themselves to opposers without realizing or perhaps they do, when they question the Watchtower authority, they also question God’s role with secular authority. If they find the secular authority to be a crime against humanity, then they must believe the Watchtower GB to be a crime against humanity, since God’s domain runs parallel.

This is truly sad when the outward definition to satisfy a troubled heart is this. “Providence.” What is the definition of this word, and how can it be applied to God’s authority over, man.

It’s sincerely a shame many that are now confused and conflicted with the way the Watchtower is moving forward are not only questioning the Watchtower abilities but also questioning God sovereignty. Many have become dismissive under their human emotion to say, we all have our own personal opinion if we want to, it doesn’t stop us from supporting God’s mission on earth, and our opinion certainly doesn’t affect others.

The word PROVIDENCE once again comes into question. Who has this personal authority to relegate others on earth to question God’s authority? A Pharisee, an Unchurch fellowship, and un-conformist, a None-Church fellow, an atheist? If you are seriously looking to blame one within these groups, look no further, all these groups are within you.

Then the understanding since 1879 should become clear with many in the organization comprised of the Watchtower in accordance with scriptural understanding to continue a standard of PROVIDENCE LEADERS.

In an earthly expression, these leaders come by different names. However, which leaders of Christianity are following Christ example?

Only God and Jesus know who the 144, 000 saints (anointed) will be. There is no predisposition for an anointed to automatically know he/she was chosen. Their earthly experience along with God’s Holy Spirit will guide those that have given of themselves to deserve such a role.

While the apostles along with whomever Jesus appointed were NOT without sin, they accepted the role of Jesus faithful followers, even unto death.

Did it make the Apostles infallible? No! Did it make those following Jesus infallible? NO! then why do opposers demand the Watchtower GB to be seen as infallible. Does it have to do with their teachings in the spirit of scripture?

Does it mean there have been no one fallible within the ranks of the anointed class? I can remember, Judas Iscariot, and Raymond Franz. Were the Apostles condemned by the Jewish people for the actions of Judas? Then why do opposers condemn the Watchtower GB? If they haven't condemned Raymond. Yet, Jesus and the Apostles were condemned just like the Watchtower GB for being the faithful servants.

Did Judas receive at that moment by hanging himself the fate of the second death? How about Raymond Franz. For leading people astray.

Has anyone on earth claimed to be “infallible?” YES! The early Papacy claimed such honor by being Christ-like or stating they were the reincarnation of Christ himself. This would indeed bring into question how the original sin was washed away to make such a claim since Christ himself did not wash away any of the Apostles original sin. Then we would have to look at POPES, John Paul ll, and Benedict the XVl.

This is to show the mentality of those that have trained their hearts to hate, without a real logical explanation, other than just to have anger and animosity toward fellow Stewart's completing a task on earth that is found in scripture.

How about those that claim to be anointed. If a person has personal grievances about the contribution of other anointed? How then can that person be of the anointed class? That person can’t, since the first rule of Jesus instruction was to through away the old self, and start the commission anew. How does hate then factor into such a high honor? It doesn't.

Scripture has NO double standards to its understanding, nor does it have a clause where anyone can pick and choose which commandments to obey. Just like the apostles obeyed all of Christ new covenant and the laws of God, so to do the anointed need to approach life with such vigor and zeal.

Without that understanding, it is by name only that people subject their personal actions to ridicule and not having any claim to the righteousness of God’s gift found in God’s Holy Spirit.

Back in the day, the Watchtower analyzed there were about 3000 anointed left. Now the figures have gone up to about 33,000. Does this mean all of those that claim divine inspiration actually have it? NO! To an extent, personal emotion at times gives a person compulsion to feel a certain way.

Therefore, what is Jesus truth? The text of John 8:12 was entered as an example.

What does the proper context of Jesus saying, “I am the light of the world” really mean within John 8:12-30.

I Am the Light of the World

12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” 13 So the Pharisees said to him, “You are bearing witness about yourself; your testimony is not true.” 14 Jesus answered, “Even if I do bear witness about myself, my testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going, but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16 Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father2 who sent me.

Is this not the same argument being presented by opposers about the Watchtower GB? It has similarities to understand the actions and conduct of those believing in themselves as an anointed to see the conduct of a Pharisee with such a claim. A claim of denial, that was apparent with the Pharisees with Jesus. While the Watchtower GB is neither Jesus nor the Apostles, they continue a vital role commissioned by God and Christ to “continue” to the very last day.

When an anointed moves to a different understanding of scripture than the first century Christian under the direction of Christ, that chosen path is exposed as it was done with Raymond Franz.

Was he really removed because of his man-made crisis? Was he removed because some suggest, it was due to not supporting 607BC and 1914AD? NO! He was removed because his spirituality became conflicted. Therefore, a conflicted person cannot possibly think, God’s Holy Spirit dwells within themselves. Remember Jesus saying to an Apostle "get behind me Satan." Can we compare the early stages of Christianity with today? NO! Jesus new covenant was coming to pass and written for our modern day understanding. While that understanding was being cultivated, the Apostles were learning the way of Christianity through Jesus.

In modern time, Bible Study is meant to adhere to what is already known about Jesus and the Apostles on what the framework was to obeying God’s written commandments. No need for anyone to relearn the steps of the Apostles since they have been written into law.

Then the proper intent with the correct context of John 8 is by describing the difference between light and darkness. Raymond Franz started in “light” but eventually fell into “darkness.” How did ancient Israel see the heavenly manna and the springs of life? Who brought those things to ancient Israel?

That was the purpose of Christ saying in John 8. A person being full of God’s Holy Spirit, would understand exactly that. They would not contrive excuses as to why other anointed should not be or have failed in their task until GOD himself exposes such a person for judgment.

The first thing Raymond lost, can be seen in Proverbs 3:5. The second thing Raymond lost is found in 1 John 4:1. The third thing Raymond lost was the ability to pray fully and resort back to scriptural understanding, rather than following his heart and mind. Fourth thing Raymond lost is found in 1 Corinthians 14:33 which in general subjected his bible understanding to a confusing ideology. Much as it’s been done here time after time by opposers that don’t understand this cited text of Corinthians.

Of course, there are many more, but Raymond’s heart once conflicted and confused, made it impossible for God to leave such a bad apple, inside a barrel of apples to rot the rest.

1 Corinthians 31:12, 1 Peter 5:8

It is also possible some former Bethel members will contradict certain facts, with experiences they personally had. However, there is still an amount of loyalty to this fallen brethren that exists today, and that loyalty is also misplaced within the confines of a conflicted and a confused person.

2 Corinthians 11:14, 2 Corinthians 10:5, James 1:5

How then can anyone ask a conflicted person anything to do with Bible understanding instead of trusting in God for any misplaced personal understanding? 2 Timothy 2:7

The resemblance of an infraction of God’s Law however trivial might seem, NOT in keeping with the spirit in which God gave Christ the privilege of his sacrifice. A true anointed person full of spirit would know just that.

Thanksgiving

3 We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers, as is right, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing. 4 Therefore we ourselves boast about you in the churches of God for your steadfastness and faith in all your persecutions and in the afflictions that you are enduring.

The Judgment at Christ’s coming

5 This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— 6 since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels 8 min flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

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Billy .......

I think the proof that you are delusional rests in the rambling epic tome you just posted, with the expectation that not only anybody would read it in its entirety before falling asleep at the keyboard, or that anyone who did manage to stay awake would facepalm slap their foreheads in realization and exclamation " WOW! He has a POINT!"

It COULD be salvaged, if someone was paying you by the word .... and I am sure they would take your word for how many words you could bill for, rather than be forced to read it.

I would read it through, if you could keep it short.

VRERRY short.

........ like ... one or two paragraphs short.

 

 

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Only ignorant fools would make such a claim as James Thomas Rook JR.

But then again, he is the court jester here. Perhaps making such a demand can go even further by applying it to witness, or is there where your obtuse gesture draws the line. 😉

I can see the same example JWinsider applied to John Butler. Can it be? But it does show where the unintelligent Bible goers are in the scheme of not wanting to understand or wish not to understand to obey God and his laws. 😏

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11 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Only ignorant fools would make such a claim as James Thomas Rook JR.

But then again, he is the court jester here. Perhaps making such a demand can go even further by applying it to witness, or is there where your obtuse gesture draws the line. 😉

I can see the same example JWinsider applied to John Butler. Can it be? But it does show where the unintelligent Bible goers are in the scheme of not wanting to understand or wish not to understand to obey God and his laws. 😏

 

There ya go Billy!

I KNEW you could do it!

THREE paragraphs ... but all very short!

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O.K. , I will bite ... pray tell what you perceive  Billy OH Billy, as my Bible lawbreaking.

Hmmmmmm?

Many dozens of times I have admitted on this forum of being a Barbarian, but that is more of a cultural thing ... so you probably have quite a list that would justify such serious and profound accusations.

Please be specific.

And to show you are NOT delusional, please prove it, and provide scriptural backup.

I await your scathing specific condemnations.

2019-05-21_014906.jpg

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If I were to be a committee right now with your barbarian views, I would have to say, you should have been D’fd long ago if you haven’t already. Remember, it’s your personal actions on display.

Being anonymous gives everyone certain anonymity to biblical judgment. But don’t feel bad, you’re NOT alone in this, here.

strife.jpg

Proverbs 17:19-20

Contrast the upright and the wicked

19 Whoever loves transgression loves strife; he who makes his door high seeks destruction. 20 A man of crooked heart does not discover good, and one with a dishonest tongue falls into calamity.

Galatians 5:19-21

The spirit of the Flesh

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy,4 drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God

Calling yourself a barbarian doesn’t exclude personal Christian conduct just because your behavior is in secret. Which is ironic since your keep accusing the GB of keeping secrets. How dense is that?

However, The above definition; definitely applies to you and others here.

Therefore, explain to everyone, how you imitate Christ with your supposed Christian behavior? And how this unchristian conduct exempts you from biblical law?

Keep in mind, if you think it, then you are what you think.

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I keep no secrets, Billy ... everything I do is open and "in your face", as I care nothing about any consequences ... mainly because I do not actually stick burglars' heads on a pole in my front yard, even though the idea does appeal to me.I

I asked you to specifically to enumerate the horrors you accuse me of, and you choked, and replied with irrelevant gibberish.

I was giving you an opportunity to PROVE you are not a slanderer, are not a liar, and not delusional.

You failed to do any of those things.

You stand convicted by your very own slanders and lies against me as a bitter, irrelevant agenda driven Watchtower policy wonk, as well.

Exactly what I would expect from a Greek speaking Watchtower Lawyer, or lawyer wannabe.

You know why Watchtower Lawyers can swim in the Atlantic Ocean without any fear of being eaten by Sharks?

.... Professional Courtesy.

 

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4 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Being anonymous gives everyone certain anonymity to biblical judgment. But don’t feel bad, you’re NOT alone in this, here.

You are AGAIN guilty as homemade sin of what you accuse ME of ... the irony is so thick you could cut it with a knife.

My name here is EXACTLY as shown on my birth certificate, my home mortgage, my Publisher's Record Card, how I am known in the Congregation ( ..actually, casually it is Tom Rook ...), my driver's license and my US Passport..

Again you have condemned yourself with your own words .... unless you really ARE BillyThe Kid46, and that's what is shown on your birth certificate, how you are known in your Congregation. and that is what is shown on your Driver's License, etc.

 

Every posting you make you shoot yourself in the foot ... AGAIN.

Part of my being a Barbarian is that I find it all very, very funny.  Like watching a Daffy Duck Cartoon where it is Duck Season and he gets his face rearranged continually from being shot.

Or as Daffy might say .... "He's Dispichible!"

 

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That only means, a heretic can’t handle the truth even if it’s thrown like a pizza in their face.

I compiled one transgression that is enough to prove the many. Denial, well, as I said, explain how your conduct is exempt? Did you bother to answer that before you started your rant? However, your dishonesty lies with NOT confronting your own Elder body with this gibberish as you call it. Personally, I call it GARBAGE! From opposers.

I don’t recall, where you have seen an Elder from your congregation here to see your strife, and divisions. Give me your address and phone number I’ll gladly pass it along. This invitation goes for others, here. You can IM the info.

One thing for sure. For a person riddled in comedy, you make a poor one.

 

You can add this to yourself, and other opposers here "

Or as Daffy might say .... "He's Dispichible!"

 

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BillyTheKid46:

There is something despicable about a man who weaponizes Scripture to try and intimidate others, for his own aggrandizement.

That is who you are, Billy, clear to the bone.

Your logic and reasoning is SO FLAWED, you think you can compile ONE of anything, in a nebulous foggy cloud of thought, and make assumptions about everything else.

Just FYI, I have had sustained discussions about my philosophy with an Elder Body in the past, in fact, several Elder Bodies in different congregations all over the country, over the years ... but my being a Barbarian means that I ignore  uninspired, and error ridden  Organizational pontification..

Been there ..... done that. 

I make them mad, and they make me sad. 

We're even.

If I am wrong about any subject ... I of course have to pay the price for being wrong

If THEY are wrong, I STILL pay the price, in full,  for taking their bad advice,  and they pay no price whatsoever.

... and so far, my track record is light years better than theirs about being right on matters the Bible does not speak about, and about 50/50 in things it does speak about.

... and as far as confessions go ...... as far as I know, the Watchtower has only apologized ONCE since 1870 ... for screwing up peoples' lives.

2019-05-21_215527.jpg

When the Body of Elders assembled to interrogate me asked me specifically what my views of the Governing Body was, about a year and a half ago, I replied:

"I will have to agree with what they published in the February, 2017 Watchtower ... that they are neither inspired, or infallible" .

The Coordinator said "Oh yeah, I remember reading that ... "  The other two Elders looked at him in astonishment, as  they had not, or did not remember it.

They could not release me from "ROOM 101" fast enough.

Several years before that I had a body of elders surround me in an aisle way at the Kingdom Hall, after the Watchtower Study,  and I could no escape them without pushing one or more aside, and one asked me without any preamble whatsoever, what I thought of the Governing Body.  My reply was spontaneous and instantaneous:

"I do not think of them at all!"

They left me alone after that. .... until "next time".

 

 

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5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

My name here is EXACTLY as shown on my birth certificate, my home mortgage, my Publisher's Record Card, how I am known in the Congregation 

I do respect that for the sake of showing guts. I really do.

 

5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

actually, casually it is Tom Rook

I would appreciate it if you would go by James. Or, just tell me if you insist upon Tom and I will go to James.

I am really curious. Can it really be, with you being so open and all, that you have triggered no sanctions in the congregation? You never let on that you have, one time relating a current field service experience when you were packing a gun and the sisters  commented how they should fell safe.

As deliberately as offensive, accusatory, and outrageous as you are—have you truly never heard about it?

As an experiment, I am going to quote a Bible passage that was recently cited on our weekly program. See if you can spot the words I have cleverly substituted (look very hard).

Looking intently at the Sanʹhe·drin Paul said: “Men, brothers, I have behaved before God with a perfectly clear conscience down to this day.”  

At this the high priest An·a·niʹas ordered those standing by him to strike him on the mouth.  

Then Paul said to him: “God is going to strike you, you whitewashed wall. Do you at one and the same time sit to judge me in accord with the Law and, transgressing the Law, command me to be struck?”  

Those standing by said: “Are you reviling the high priest of God?”  

And Paul said: “You lying son of a b***h! I’ll revile you if I want, you odious fool! Your mother’s midwife probably slapped her instead of you!!!”

There. Did you catch it? Honestly, why don’t you be more like Paul actually was?

 

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