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Um, reading TTH's comment above concerning the Trinity, it seemed to me to fit well into the idea of the GB calling themselves the 'Faithful and Discreet slave'. Following on Tom's logic then the 'burden of proof' is for the GB to prove they are that 'slave'. 

Quote "With very few exceptions, all ‘proof’ of the Trinity is based on taking literally certain passages which, if they were spotted anywhere else, would instantly be dismissed as figures of speech. I can picture these yo-yos reading of ‘crocodile tears’ and seizing upon it as proof that the writer is a crocodile."  

I can picture the GB 'reading of ‘crocodile tears’ and seizing upon it as proof that the writer is a crocodile." ' 

The default position favors the Ex Witness....  :) :) :) 

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I wonder why the Anointed of God, although self admittedly NOT inspired of God, the ones supplying "food at the proper time", etc., seem to be completely devoid of common sense of any kind, on any sub

I've seen a lot of love and long-lasting friendships. I've seen some awful things too, and heard about many more. But the congregations I have been in over many years (from age 0 to 66) have had very

I definitely agree with that. No matter how sure I might sound, I am just giving an opinion on what I believe a Scripture might mean. Even if I don't have any doubts about it, it doesn't make it true.

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On 6/11/2019 at 10:02 AM, BillyTheKid46 said:

Well, like James attempt of trying to exalt you as a scholar, you are far from understanding theological scholarly works.

I have always deferred to you whenever you showed evidence that I was wrong and you were right. And, assuming I am right about your past avatars, this has actually happened more than once.

On 6/11/2019 at 10:02 AM, BillyTheKid46 said:

Therefore, what you are saying, you are willing to accept what suits you to contradict the Watchtower.

What I am still saying is that I am willing to accept where the Biblical evidence leads. And most of the time it leads me support the Watchtower. You have already seen this many times, but those areas where I support the Watchtower hold no interest to you. The biggest discussions always ensue over those areas  where the Biblical evidence leads away from the Watchtower's traditional views. These are for the most part chronology-related, or doctrines that we ended up getting locked into, because of our chronology doctrines (generation, etc.).

I have been very clear that I'm sure the Bible does not support our chronology teachings. I can now say that I have no doubts about this. The pseudo-archaeology we have used to try to get "outside" support for our chronology is undoubtedly also against the WT view, and it also happens to support the Bible's view. But I'm more interested in what the Bible itself says about our chronology doctrines.

I am 100 percent in agreement with our teachings on Soul, Trinity, Paradise Earth, War, Neutrality, Elders, Smoking/Recreational Drugs/Alcohol, Morals, Pagan Roots of Worldly Holidays, Meetings, Our Ministry, using God's Name, the Ransom, Jehovah's Sovereignty, His Eternal Purpose, and probably hundreds more specific understandings of scriptures that vary from the way that most of Christendom understands them.

Also, it doesn't "suit me" to contradict the Watchtower in those areas where the Bible evidence leads away from certain traditional teachings we have not broken free from yet. These differences sometimes result in painful realizations. Sometimes it's the realization that many are suffering (or have suffered) unnecessarily. The difference in the way certain young brothers are now treated in several countries where they were once told not to accept any kind of alternative service when their conscience would have allowed it is an example. We now know that there have been literally hundreds or even thousands of abused Witness children for whom any kind of justice was made difficult due to a policy that put the reputation of the organization first. 

Any difference between my own views and those of the Watchtower must always be based on Biblical evidence, prayer, meditation, conscience, reasonableness, and always FIRST giving the benefit of any doubt to the elder men who publish our teachings in the publications and through approved representatives. This way, if I find there are areas of doctrine I can no longer support in good conscience, it is no longer based on any doubt or conflict. There are also certain areas where I am still trying to follow the Bible's counsel to "make sure of all things." Those areas where I am "making sure" I am also willing to discuss here. And I'm happy to hear any Bible evidence you have that is appropriate.

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1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I see you once again attempt to twist methodology to your advantage. When, will you learn.

Well, like James attempt of trying to exalt you as a scholar, you are far from understanding theological scholarly works.

Ok... here goes:

I officially recognize BTK46 as the BEST scholar in this group! (seriously...)

But his perspective is so screwed up he misinterprets EVERYTHING!

... it's like a child having a beautiful, playful, happy,  expensive pure-bred AKC registered puppy ....

... and he EATS it!

 

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52 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

You have discredited yourself by accepting only those biased scholarly “opinions” of the NWT interpretation.

You are wrong again. But that is not unusual. You have a terrible track record when you make such assumptions. I accept and appreciate the many scholarly opinions that support the accuracy and value of the NWT. I do not even support all the opinions of those scholarly works that I referenced. In many cases their opinions about the accuracy or inaccuracy of certain passages are colored by their own theological bias.

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Which JW scholars, as you “state” have criticized the Watchtower interpretation that the Watchtower has had the ability to revise certain linguist understandings by newly found evidence, which other Bible writers continue with the basic formula of the 15th century?

I didn't state this. Again, you completely make up things that I supposedly stated. As you can see I stated nothing like this and nothing even related to this. And furthermore I don't believe it's a problem to revise based on newly found evidence. Why would anyone?

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14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The WTS has never claimed that the NWT was itself spirit-directed, or inspired in any way. If that had been claimed it would not have made sense to make the 2013 Revised Edition so different.

Ohh, sorry JW Insider, but they had not needed to made specific naming, numbering was/were some specific work, action and move that organization and leading people inside it had made, was been spirit-directed. ....

Because..... the whole organization with all guardians of doctrine who has made approval, gave green light for, of every Bible edition ......  is spirit-directed......supposedly.

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On 6/11/2019 at 12:05 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Because..... the whole organization with all guardians of doctrine who has made approval, gave green light for, of every Bible edition ......  is spirit-directed......supposedly.

Then you are right back to the points you were making with Outta Here about whether "spirit-directed" means the same as "inspired."

This is a big topic to explore:

It would be easy to imagine that the two words mean the same thing. We wouldn't be surprised at all if we looked up "inspired" in any dictionary and found one of the definitions to be "directed by the Holy Spirit" and perhaps another to be "directed by evil spirits." In fact the expression "borne along by holy spirit" in the Bible means inspired. Some translations say "carried along by Holy Spirit." The NWT now says:

(2 Peter 1:21) . . .For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were moved by holy spirit.

The word translated "moved" refers to "being driven" (in fact the German word fuhren, to drive or to be conducted, is allied with the Greek word phero used here). If you conduct something, like a cow through a field, you are directing that cow. If you are blowing wind into the sails of a toy boat, you are driving or conducting or directing that boat. So being moved by holy spirit means being spirit directed, and here, it also means inspired.

In our definitions among JWs, we treat the idea of spirit and holy spirit a lot more passively than the NT does.  We no longer say that a specific person is spirit directed. Only that the organization as a whole is spirit directed.

There was a time when "we" (Bible Students and early Jehovah's Witnesses) might even say that Russell or Rutherford was spirit directed. But we didn't stop there. We even thought that Russell was himself spirit directing the Society after he died. (Therefore he could even write a book post-humously and be considered the author, even though only about half of what was in there was actually based on his own earlier writings.) A woman could be spirit-directed in writing a book supposedly directed by one of the fallen angels who came down before the Flood of Noah's day. With a few corrections, her book could be re-packaged, promoted and sold through the Watch Tower Society. Just a few years ago Brother Herd from the Governing Body recommended the book as interesting reading after he found it in the Bethel Library.

A politician in England who agreed with Rutherford could be considered to be have the spirit of the Old Testament prophets, and be a prophet just like Rutherford was considered to be. There was no shame in stating that Rutherford had the spirit of the Old Testament prophets. There was no shame in stating that Russell was the "angel of the church of Laodicea" the "seventh messenger" of Revelation, and that he was personally the "faithful and wise servant" who provided food to the domestics at the proper time.

Then, in Rutherford's day, there were those "flashes of light" in Jehovah's temple. Not always considered to have been from Holy Spirit, but at least considered to have been directed from angels. We considered "1935" and the new understanding of the "great multitude" (great crowd) to be one of those flashes of light in God's holy temple, and we considered the new understanding that the "higher powers"/"superior authorities" were no longer the secular authorities to be another of those "flashes of light." But then we changed our view on the latter "flash" completely (180 degrees), and changed many of our views on 1935 too.

The Watchtower publications have explicitly stated that they do not feel that the translation (NWT) is inspired. But (and this is mostly for John and Billy) the Watchtower has found scholarly support for the translation in general. See here for example:

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/new-world-translation-accurate/

 

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Literalness. Unlike paraphrased translations, the New World Translation renders words literally as long as doing so does not result in awkward wording or hide the thought of the original writings. Translations that paraphrase the Bible’s original text may insert human opinions or omit important details.

Um, I think this has been disproved. I think the word BIAS comes in somewhere. 

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2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

If you believe I screw everything up, I must have learned from the “best” JAMES THOMAS ROOK JR, the screw-up of us all

It would be useless for me to ask you for any facts to back up that statement, Billy, as we BOTH already know there aren't any .... as does everyone else reading your Phineas T. Bluster blusters .... so I will just make this conciliatory comment ...

"Why Billy, I did not know you were a student of mine!".

 

 

 

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