Firstborn or First created?

[Jesus.defender]

Firstborn or First created?

Colossians 1:15 - ‘the firstborn (Greek: prototokos 4416) of every creature’.

JWs use this verse to teach that Jesus was created at a point in time as an angel.

They ignore the evidence and insist that the word ‘firstborn’ here means ‘first created’, ‘the eldest in Jehovah’s family of sons’.

The Bible teaching:

1) ‘Firstborn’ (Greek: prototokos) does NOT mean ‘first-created’ (Greek: protoktisis). First-created (Protoktisis) is never used of Christ in New Testament.

Question:Where is it used of Jesus in New Testament?

Question: Why didn’t Paul use the term ‘first-created’ (protoktisis) in Colossians 1:15 if he meant that Christ was the first one created by Jehovah?

2) Ask: What does ‘firstborn’ (Greek: prototokos 4416) mean?

Answer: ‘Pre-eminent, Ruler, Sovereign, First in rank’.

It is used in other passages which refer to Christ:

i. Romans 8:29 ‘that he might be the firstborn among many brethren’. ‘Prototokos’ presents Christ as the pre-eminent member of the group (S. Zodhiates NT, p 1249).
ii. Colossians 1:15. ‘The firstborn of every creature’ Christ is the one pre-eminent and supreme ruler over all creation (S Zodhiates NT, p 1250). v.16 ‘By him were all things created’ means that Christ Himself is not part of Creation (John 1:3).
iii. Colossians 1:18 ‘He (Christ) is the head of the body, the church: who is the
beginning (arche), the firstborn (prototokos=Ruler) from the dead; that in all
things he might have the pre-eminence (proteuon)’.
‘Arche’ means ‘first cause’ (Revelation 3:14, Colossians 1:18) and is parallel to
‘prototokos’ in Colossians 1:15,18, both asserting Christ’s pre-eminence.
Note: ‘Proteuon’ (pre-eminence) present tense is used only in Colossians 1:18 and indicates not an acquired right to be ruler and pre-eminent, but an inherent right by virtue of His nature. Christ, being the Creator, deserves to have pre-eminence.
iv. Hebrews 1:6 ‘And again, when he bringeth the firstbegotten(prototokos=Ruler) into the world, he saith ‘And let all the angels of God worship Him’.
Alternately, translate this as ‘And when He again brings the firstborn into the
world’, refers to Christ’s second coming when Christ as King will be worshipped
by the angels. Christ is exalted even above all the angels.
v. Revelation 1:5 ‘And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the
firstbegotten (prototokos=Ruler) of the dead, and the prince (arche = chief) of the kings of the earth.’ Here ‘prototokos’ means that Christ is first of those to be
resurrected, and prince (arche) means ruler of earth’s kings at His second coming.
Note: JWs compare Christ as the firstborn of all creation with the firstborn son of Pharaoh. This is nonsensical, because it is true that Pharaoh parented his son, but it is not true that ‘all creation’ parented Jesus.
3) We must understand what the original speaker or writer intended by the words which he used. The ancient Hebrews used the term ‘firstborn son’ when referring to the preeminent son, regardless of whether or not he was the first son born to the parents. The son with the title ‘firstborn’ had the right of primogeniture which meant that:
i) He acquired a special blessing (Genesis 27);
ii) He became heir of a double share of the father’s wealth (Deuteronomy 21:17);
iii) He replaced his father as the family head. He had authority over his brothers;
iv) He represented the father in civil and religious matters;
v) He had some holiness because through him flowed the common blood of the tribe (Genesis 49:3; Deuteronomy 21:17).
Key: The term ‘firstborn’ does not refer to the first one born, but to the pre-eminent one in the family. Consider these examples where the son with the title ‘firstborn’ was not born first:
(1) David was the last born son of Jesse, yet Psalm 89:27 says of him: ‘Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth’. (v.20 onwards refers to David).
(2) Ephraim was the second born son of Joseph: ‘The name of the second called he Ephraim.’ (Genesis 41:50-52). Yet ‘Ephraim is my firstborn’ (Jeremiah 31:9). This was because of his pre-eminent position. Manasseh was born first to Joseph, but Ephraim became the firstborn because of his pre-eminence.
(3) Jacob (Israel) was the second son born to Isaac, after Esau, yet God says of Israel, ‘Israel is my son, even my firstborn.’ (Exodus 4:22). Esau says of himself, ‘I am Esau thy firstborn’. (Genesis 27:19). Esau means that he was born first and should have the birthright. God means that Israel, though born second, took the pre-eminent position. Hence, in this sense Christ is firstborn because of His pre-eminence, not because He was created first as JWs think.
(4) Solomon was born to David later, and the line of the kings came through Solomon,yet Amnon was born first (I Chronicles 3:2).
(5) Isaac was born 13 years after Ishmael, yet Isaac took the pre-eminent position in the family.(Genesis 17:19).
(6) Judah was the fourth son born to Jacob (Genesis 29:35), yet Judah received the dominion and line of Christ, even though Reuben being born first forfeited his right of primogeniture due to fornication (Genesis 49:3,4)
4) Firstborn can be rendered metaphorically, not meaning born first. Examples include:
i) Job 18:13 ‘the firstborn of death shall devour his strength’. As the firstborn son held the chief place, so Job refers to the chiefest (most deadly) disease that death possessed;
ii) Isaiah 14:30 ‘The firstborn of the poor shall feed’, means the poorest of the poor.

Conclusion: Firstborn does not mean born first or created first. Rather, it is a title of first rank, or pre-eminent position. Paul calls Christ the firstborn (prototokos = Ruler).

Ask: What does Psalm 89:27 mean by calling David firstborn, when he was the last born son?

Ask: Why didn’t Paul use ‘first created’ (protoktisis) of Christ in Colossians 1:15 if he intended to teach that Christ was the first one created by Jehovah?

[Melinda Mills]

Jacob got rights of first born but he was not first born; same with David, Jehovah gave him right of first born in relation to kingship. Jesus is therefore the greater David. Jehovah is developing his purpose since the time of the first rebellion in the Garden of Eden, so all his sayings reflected that he was developing for the future saving of the human race.

(Psalm 89:27) And I will place him as firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth.

 

[John Houston]

But where one was the first one born, was it correctly used? As when Jesus was called firstborn by his mother? Was he not the very first child born to her? And was not Jesus the first child born to God, among all the other sons in heaven, of all creation he was the first, because before anything came into existence it came by the will of God, not the Son. There has to be a Father. A Father makes a Son, not the other way around. Like the egg before the chicken? We know the chicken came first, because God with his Son created life first, not the egg, the animal,right? So his " ONLY BEGOTTEN " the one formed by his hands only, came first. And as the scriptures state all other life came through Jesus. So simple, common sense. One enitity with no beginning with a Son who was his only begotten.

[Jesus.defender]

On 6/25/2019 at 1:44 AM, Melinda Mills said:

Jacob got rights of first born but he was not first born; same with David, Jehovah gave him right of first born in relation to kingship. Jesus is therefore the greater David. Jehovah is developing his purpose since the time of the first rebellion in the Garden of Eden, so all his sayings reflected that he was developing for the future saving of the human race.

(Psalm 89:27) And I will place him as firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth.

 

Jacob was not first CREATED

[Jesus.defender]

On 6/25/2019 at 1:24 PM, BillyTheKid46 said:

1:15 ὅς ἐστιν εἰκὼν τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ἀοράτου, πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως. The ἐν ᾧ (“in whom”) of 1:14 switched the focus from God (ὅς, 1:13) to Christ and thus made it possible to attach the lengthy hymnic description of Christ (running to six verses) by means of a further simple ὅς (“who”). The language used is unlike other traditional formulaic summaries of the gospel introduced elsewhere by the same relative pronoun (such as Rom. 3:25; 4:25; 8:34), which focus on the cross and resurrection of Christ. But the same phrase (“who is the image of God”) is used in 2 Cor. 4:4.

 

Show me the source for this, please. which Bible, etc?

 

 First creation was Jesus in heaven and firstborn as a man on earth."

That is NOT what the Bible teaches. You are twisting things to suit your theology.

Let me guess, the WATCHTOWER taught you this.

If Jesus created ALL things, then He cant have been created. The word "other" which the watchtower deceitfully inserts into your translation is NOT found anywhere in the original.

[Jesus.defender]

On 6/25/2019 at 3:57 AM, John Houston said:

But where one was the first one born, was it correctly used? As when Jesus was called firstborn by his mother? Was he not the very first child born to her? And was not Jesus the first child born to God, among all the other sons in heaven, of all creation he was the first, because before anything came into existence it came by the will of God, not the Son. There has to be a Father. A Father makes a Son, not the other way around. Like the egg before the chicken? We know the chicken came first, because God with his Son created life first, not the egg, the animal,right? So his " ONLY BEGOTTEN " the one formed by his hands only, came first. And as the scriptures state all other life came through Jesus. So simple, common sense. One enitity with no beginning with a Son who was his only begotten.

Address the verses i gave. Not just give your opinion.

[Space Merchant]

According to the fact that early Christians were Subordinationist and that Jesus is Only Begotten, the answer is pretty clear.

[Jesus.defender]

On 6/25/2019 at 1:44 AM, Melinda Mills said:

Jacob got rights of first born but he was not first born;

 

You obviously did NOT read my post.

what you SHOULD of said was "Jacob got rights of first born but he was not first created"

On 6/25/2019 at 1:44 AM, Melinda Mills said:

same with David, Jehovah gave him right of first born in relation to kingship. Jesus is therefore the greater David. Jehovah is developing his purpose since the time of the first rebellion in the Garden of Eden, so all his sayings reflected that he was developing for the future saving of the human race.

Jesus is greated than david because Jesus CREATED david!

On 6/25/2019 at 1:44 AM, Melinda Mills said:

 

(Psalm 89:27) And I will place him as firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth.

 

 

[Jesus.defender]

On 6/25/2019 at 1:24 PM, BillyTheKid46 said:

First creation was Jesus in heaven and firstborn as a man on earth.

Wrong. The watchtower has LIED to you.

Jesus created ALL things.

the watchtower inserted the word "other" just before the word "things".

But, the original does NOT say that!

6ὅτι (because) ἐν (in) αὐτῷ (Him) ἐκτίσθη (were created) τὰ (-) πάντα (all things) ἐν (in) τοῖς (the) οὐρανοῖς (heavens) καὶ (and) ἐπὶ (upon) τῆς (the) γῆς (earth), τὰ (the) ὁρατὰ (visible) καὶ (and) τὰ (the) ἀόρατα (invisible), εἴτε (whether) θρόνοι (thrones) εἴτε (or) κυριότητες (dominions) εἴτε (or) ἀρχαὶ (rulers) εἴτε (or) ἐξουσίαι (authorities); τὰ (-) πάντα (all things) δι’ (through) αὐτοῦ (Him) καὶ (and) εἰς (unto) αὐτὸν (Him) ἔκτισται (have been created).

[Space Merchant]

3 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

what you SHOULD of said was "Jacob got rights of first born but he was not first created"

Quote

This is Yacob/Jacob, not Jesus. Jesus himself as been called the firstborn of creation as well as the firstborn out of death (out of the dead), and evidence to such is that Jesus himself is the first of the Firstfruits.

1 hour ago, Jesus.defender said:

But, the original does NOT say that!

How so?

1 hour ago, Jesus.defender said:

6ὅτι (because) ἐν (in) αὐτῷ (Him) ἐκτίσθη (were created) τὰ (-) πάντα (all things) ἐν (in) τοῖς (the) οὐρανοῖς (heavens) καὶ (and) ἐπὶ (upon) τῆς (the) γῆς (earth), τὰ (the) ὁρατὰ (visible) καὶ (and) τὰ (the) ἀόρατα (invisible), εἴτε (whether) θρόνοι (thrones) εἴτε (or) κυριότητες (dominions) εἴτε (or) ἀρχαὶ (rulers) εἴτε (or) ἐξουσίαι (authorities); τὰ (-) πάντα (all things) δι’ (through) αὐτοῦ (Him) καὶ (and) εἰς (unto) αὐτὸν (Him) ἔκτισται (have been created).

Incorrect in every sense. The Textus Receptus is not the original, and or the later manuscript sources, which is known to everyone to have been corrupted. We have the original early manuscripts concerning such that proves your claim as nothing more than a fallacy, and it only too a single minute to point this out.

2 Cor. 4:4 and Hebrews 1:3 are also marginal references that also holds more evidence.

That being said:

The Father takes delight in the Son. The Son marvels and rejoices over the works of the hands of the Father.