THE TRINITY

[Space Merchant]

@James Thomas Rook Jr. What? Cannibalism?

The Baptism's origin in general began with ritual washing, to the Jews known as the Mikveh, to John the Baptist, it was more than baptizing people in regards to repentance of sin, it is more of passing from death unto life, as in biblical context can be seen from a bird's eye view of the Jordan River, as professed by a Hebrew Professor I had mentioned before.

I can go on in further detail, but I will keep it brief until I see Srecko's claim, which will evidently be lackluster when the Mikveh and what we see in the Didache can easily be used here, in conjunction with my response on child baptism, as well as being against infant baptism.

[Srecko Sostar]

6 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Animals cannot preach

Balaam's Donkey did, and Stones can preach too, according to Bible.

6 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Yes, and it is reasons as such Baptismal Regeneration exist as well as infant baptism, in addition, sprinkle of water when Scripturally, and even in the Didache, you are to submerge the one who sought baptism.

Well, you put very big importance on how much water have to be used for baptism of some individual. According to your reasoning sprinkling with water is big problem but to be minor candidate is just by Bible principles :)))   

You have great mind, but in some details you failed, again. :))

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

being against infant baptism.

Difference between infant and 6 year old is enormous. When 6 year old decide to join some Religious Structure to be life time member that must be blessing for that child and his parents. To be Unitarian, in your case, or to be Seven Day Adventist or to be JW from such young age is good, firm platform that such individual will stay, in most, Member for Life Time in Particular Organized Religion, and that such Individual will not Changed his Religion when get older. Because such Individual already knows, from age 6, that Only his Religion is Only True One. And how SDA and JW are not True Religions. :))

If that is the case with Your Bible Unitarian Religion, would you like, have wish, that people here on this Forum, and other people, join You to be Unitarians? :)) Or, Unitarianism allows people to be separated in various Religions that hold similar teachings and as such are close to /part of Restoration Movement Family? 

If some JW want to be Biblical Unitarian, what he have to do? What teaching of JW he would need to left, to change? Does he have to be baptized again in your Church?    

[JW Insider]

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If some JW want to be Biblical Unitarian, what he have to do? What teaching of JW he would need to left, to change? Does he have to be baptized again in your Church?  

Except for a couple of statements I could not fully agree with, I really appreciated your line of reasoning/questioning.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

SCENARIO 89643:

Several Brothers go on a camping trip with relatives, who they have been witnessing to for some time.  One relative decides he wants to be Baptized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and in the morning they all go to the lake and Baptize him, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit .... with no mention whatsoever of the contract of fealty to the Watchtower or any Earthly organization.

Not a single one of the "100 Questions" was asked .... but in the eyes of God and Christ it was a valid baptism.

What kind of flak can they each expect to get when this new Brother shows up at the Kingdom Hall?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Billy ... your last two posts provided the key to the puzzle .....

 

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

This is one dimensional dense ideology. There are kids more spiritually mature than you James! There are more spiritually  mature kids than Anna, and "Winsider 

I truly believe that kids are great. And how they are sincere little people. In comparison to "mature", "spiritual"  people, like You or me, or @James Thomas Rook Jr.,  @Anna and @JW Insider you had mentioned. 

We all here, can be or not have to be "spiritual" by your' or someone else Measurement Tool , but more important question is: Are we always Sincere ... like children??!!  

[Space Merchant]

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Balaam's Donkey did, and Stones can preach too, according to Bible.

Lol, is that so?

Can you show me a verse whereas Ba’laam’s donkey was preaching and teaching the gospel truth and the Messianic Age to the people of the nations?

This I’d like to see, for perhaps this will be as alien and unfounded of what you stated about Chloe.

Ba’lam, some of Be’or was a man who sought after ill reward, and I doubt you would be interested in the events regarding him because it negates what you have talked about before concerning younger people, as is his involvement with Balak.

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well, you put very big importance on how much water have to be used for baptism of some individual.

I put a very big importance in baptism because I understand and know the origins of Baptism itself and how it came to be with the Christians of old.

How much water? No.

According to the origins of the Baptism, or the ritual washing, one must be immersed in the water, not have a bucket and or a bowel of water dropped on their head.

We can take into example the people of whom John the Baptist had baptized, all of them were brought underneath the water and back up as well as proclaimed the word of God to the people (Matthew 3:1, 2; Mark 1:4; Acts 19:4, etc.),  Maybe Phillip and the Ethiopian Eunuch as seen in Acts 8, perhaps the example concerning Jesus, for John put him under, and brought him back up, and as soon as he came out of the water, God gave the spirit to Jesus and had spoken, for John the Baptist became witness to God speaking at this point of time, even acknowledged this event taking place (Matthew 3:13:17); this also correlates with an elementary question that is deem complex for anyone when it comes to why John the Baptist baptized his people in the Jordan River.

There is no biblical reference nor is there any hermeneutics in regard to sparkling water unto a person who sought after baptism.

In short, regarding baptism, one must be Immersed, one must be a hearer and understanding of the word, the teachings, and one only seeks baptism if he or she declares their faith and their dedication to the one True God, who is El Shaddai and on he is such and from here on out, like Jude and others, maintain faith and be strong in it.

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

According to your reasoning sprinkling with water is big problem but to be minor candidate is just by Bible principles :)))   

Not my reasoning, but okay for making yourself look silly.

If you can show me some hermeneutics of John sprinkling water unto Jesus, perhaps you can convince me otherwise.

That being said, one should question your reasoning when you make accusations against Jesus, his followers as well as prophets of God on occasion.

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You have great mind, but in some details you failed, again. :))

On the contrary,  how is it I had failed when you cannot even given evidence to your claim? It mirrors what you had stated about Chloe and Barak, which shows you are enshrouded by the dense nature of your mind and your form of thinking, Srecko.

Please...

19 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Difference between infant and 6 year old is enormous. When 6 year old decide to join some Religious Structure to be life time member that must be blessing for that child and his parents.

Of course there is a different. An infant cannot make a decision to act upon something and or take action on practically things such as moving a chair to sit down, if hungry, taking what he or she seeks from the fridge and or pantry, the action and decision to understand that this so and so is his or her guardian and takes order from said guardian as well as ask said guardian for various things, let alone be trained on something and understand it, an infant cannot do this. So why baptize an infant, a baby who cannot preach something that is not understood? Dare I say, if you ask a baby who God is after speaking about God for 2 minutes, the response? Nothing but a smile and curiosity.

A child, who is aware, can speak and able to understand can do what is mentioned above however, such as a 6-year-old, nowadays some as young as 4 or 5 can do these things, taken, they are raised right, i.e. reading, playing the piano and knowing all things regarding such.

When it comes to reading the Word of God, a child can seek it should they choose, willingness to learn about God and so forth. The Bible makes it clear to pass on wisdom to the children concerning God (remember, something you yourself has laughed at). In Jesus’ day and before that, children were taught about who God is and learn about it, when Jesus was a boy, his people, including his human parents, Mary and Joseph, taught him about God. According to the Law of the Jews, the Jews, as soon as they can gain insight and understanding, capable of being vocal and so forth, adhere to learning about the God of Israel, for Jesus himself, even as a boy, he affirmed the Shema Yisrael Law, a Law given to Israel by God through Moses, and this command is followed, to observe, to teach, to recite, to read concerning the God of Israel. The Shema command is carried over into the New Covenant due to Jesus affirming this in the gospel of Mark and Matthew, and even Apostle Paul affirmed the Shema Command, which is followed to and taken seriously to this day.

Granted you are using my experience, as a 6 year old, I wanted to learn about God, I made the decision myself because not only I believe in God, but I uphold my faith in regards to what his Son, Jesus had taught, and likewise, the foremost commandment of which the law hangs concerning wisdom, is what I and many others take seriously.

19 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

To be Unitarian, in your case, or to be Seven Day Adventist

It’s called Seventh Day Adventist. They are not Unitarians and or align themselves with Unitarianism of any kind, nor are they Restorationist, for they had since abandoned their Restorationist roots and uphold Trinitarianism and all things in connection to it. They themselves also brush over the Shema Yisrael Command, given to Moses by God; affirmed by Jesus and his followers.

For the sake of agreement, yes they originated from Restorationism at the peek of Christianity in America during the Great Awakening, but it only took a small amount of time for them to abandon Restorationist roots, as is with others. Also regardless of this, SDAs are against the Reformation.

19 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

to be JW from such young age is good, firm platform that such individual will stay, in most, Member for Life Time in Particular Organized Religion, and that such Individual will not Changed his Religion when get older.

Free will (something else you also had a problem with regarding both Jesus and Peter, etc.). When a person reaches the age, they can make the choice to leave or to remain, likewise, to remaining living with loved ones, friends and or relatives, and or leaving, parting ways. I stated this before to you, one of which in that deceased Glasgow thread of yours.

19 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Because such Individual already knows, from age 6, that Only his Religion is Only True One. And how SDA and JW are not True Religions. :))

Of course there is a different - do not be ignorant. An infant cannot make a decision to act upon something and or take action on practically things such as moving a chair to sit down, if hungry, taking what he or she seeks from the fridge and or pantry, the action and decision to understand that this so and so is his or her guardian and takes order from said guardian as well as ask said guardian for various things, an infant cannot do this.

A child, who is aware, can speak and able to understand can do what is mentioned above however, such as a 6-year-old, nowadays some as young as 4 or 5 can do these things, taken, they are raised right.

When it comes to reading the Word of God, a child can seek it should they choose, willingness to learn about God and so forth. The Bible makes it clear to pass on wisdom to the children concerning God (remember, something you yourself has laughed at). In Jesus’ day and before that, children were taught about who God is and learn about it, when Jesus was a boy, his people, including his human parents, Mary and Joseph, taught him about God. According to the Law of the Jews, the Jews, as soon as they can gain insight and understanding, capable of being vocal and so forth, adhere to learning about the God of Israel, for Jesus himself, even as a boy, he affirmed the Shema Yisrael Law, a Law given to Israel by God through Moses, and this command is followed, to observe, to teach, to recite, to read concerning the God of Israel. The Shema command is carried over into the New Covenant due to Jesus affirming this in the gospel of Mark and Matthew, and even Apostle Paul affirmed the Shema Command, which is followed to and taken seriously to this day.

19 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If that is the case with Your Bible Unitarian Religion, would you like, have wish, that people here on this Forum, and other people, join You to be Unitarians? :))

Join me? Since when? And I really do not care of what they follow, my only concern is slander and stupidity, and utter shenanigans that demands a refutation, nothing more.

That being said, it is humorous to see you speak of Unitarianism, if the last time you assumed all of us are the same, as in accepting of interfaith ideologies that was never part of the church of the Christ, a mistake Butler paid when he used that same source. Alluding to such will reap nothing for you and it is evident by my own responses I am against the interfaith practices, and my absolute hatred for the Kairos Movement.

19 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Or, Unitarianism allows people to be separated in various Religions that hold similar teachings and as such are close to /part of Restoration Movement Family? 

It depends, on what form of Unitarianism are you talking about. Unitarian Interfaith allows such to some degree, but what you have stated have nothing in conjunction with speaking a truth and speaking slander.

More so, as how we are, Biblical Unitarians, we take all things in total seriousness, especially concerning the history of things concerning the Bible and of God and his Son and many other things, a tap of ill information or a lie will irritate us and result in debate and or refutation if need be, a swift rebuke.

19 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If some JW want to be Biblical Unitarian, what he have to do? What teaching of JW he would need to left, to change?

I care very little if JW wants to be changes their faith, for their decision is not with me, but with the one who has mold them and what is true to themselves as a single soul, let alone and or a Unitarian of any kind who wants a JW, perhaps a Gnostic, Calvinist, believer, agnostic, atheist, Muslim, or perhaps a toaster, etc. Anyone can jump into a faith and or religion and or following, but it does not hide the fact of stupid persons who dwell upon slander only to make themselves look like fools. Among all other things, the truth from the Bible itself proves factual over petty feelings on those who want to water down who God is and Jesus, more so, they would rely on cherry picking to do it.

That being said, a person who converts to any and or other faith, even a community, already makes the decision themselves of what they want to abide by because to them they know that it is the right path, be it positive and or negative.

19 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Does he have to be baptized again in your Church? 

What church are you talking about? The only true church is the one that Jesus has built, we in him, in union with him, he in union with us, his God in union with him and us. Dare I ask, have you skipped Matthew 16 and Acts 2?

I am awaiting your claim still, but you continue to evade what is making asked of you, like always, Srecko, more so, some of these things had already been answered concerning you.

That being said, speaking of you folk and baptism, a friend of mine who is a proclaimer of the message, Soulja of God, not to me confused with Solider, was the son of a father who has left his family, and a mother who is pretty much a prostitute. Long story short, if he had not learned about God, and what God’s message would convey, I would be seeing his tombstone rather than he himself. When he was 8, he learned about God when he got his hands on a Bible that was in Spanish, his native/birth language.

Although both our paths are different, we have one goal, and that goal is concerning God’s Kingdom, as well as speaking out against slander and hypocrisy, despite the fact he is more aggressive than I am concerning such, but clearly, concerning what the Bible teachings.

The good thing about being a man of God, you can to meet people as well as meet those want to learn of who God is but either never got the chance and or understand. Like Phillip, we teach and explain and they put the application, should they seek said information, be it man, woman or child, it is their decision and choice by means of their free will,  if they wish to accept.

So let's have it, about that claim of yours concerning baptism...

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

We can take into example the people of whom John the Baptist had baptized, all of them were brought underneath the water and back up as well as proclaimed the word of God to the people (Matthew 3:1, 2; Mark 1:4; Acts 19:4, etc.),  Maybe Phillip and the Ethiopian Eunuch as seen in Acts 8, perhaps the example concerning Jesus, for John put him under, and brought him back up, and as soon as he came out of the water, God gave the spirit to Jesus and had spoken, for John the Baptist became witness to God speaking at this point of time, even acknowledged this event taking place (Matthew 3:13:17); this also correlates with an elementary question that is deem complex for anyone when it comes to why John the Baptist baptized his people in the Jordan River.

 

May i ask, How many 6 year old male and female has been there, according the Bible books you used here, to support this practice and your standpoint - baptizing children (minor, under age children, not to mention Jesus cca 30 years of old as TRUE EXAMPLE  to follow, verified by written words in holy book :))) 

According to nowadays standard we can talk about age 18 (in Europe) as lawful  age to make independent, competent DECISIONS. 

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Can you show me a verse whereas Ba’laam’s donkey was preaching and teaching the gospel truth and the Messianic Age to the people of the nations?

I guess how this Inspired Donkey, inspired by holy spirit, preached God's Words (you can call that gospel, message, warning or else) no matter was this Donkey preached that words to one person or to the people of nations :))) 

 :)) animals today also praise the Lord :))  with or without "preaching and teaching", in forms and shapes that perhaps you would expect - :)) (talking about forms when individuals or organized groups spreading, what they call, god's words)

Of course i don' t like how this god's creatures kill each other for food but i can't do nothing about it !

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

On 7/10/2019 at 7:00 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

According to your reasoning sprinkling with water is big problem but to be minor candidate is just by Bible principles :)))   

Not my reasoning, but okay for making yourself look silly.

If you can show me some hermeneutics of John sprinkling water unto Jesus, perhaps you can convince me otherwise.

That being said, one should question your reasoning when you make accusations against Jesus, his followers as well as prophets of God on occasion.

Main issue of our conversation is - baptism of children, and NOT water. :))) 

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

A child, who is aware, can speak and able to understand can do what is mentioned above however, such as a 6-year-old, nowadays some as young as 4 or 5 can do these things, taken, they are raised right, i.e. reading, playing the piano and knowing all things regarding such.

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart knew music notes before letters with 3 year of age, with 5 made simple composition and gave concerts. Well he was better candidate for baptism than many children today :))) 

 A child, who is aware, ....Aware of WHAT? That his parents are deceived by religious leaders and teaching him uninspired, error doctrines and instructions that he and his parents MUST OBEY even if THEY ALL TOGETHER, AS PARENTS AND FAMILY DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY, BUT DESPITE THAT MUST OBEY AND LISTEN??? !!!

AWARE .... please who is silly? Me? :))) Or you who gave statement that CHILD is Aware ......of adult people wrongs and religious misconceptions ??!!