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Shiwiii

Do jw's believe in a rapture?

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I tried looking at the jw website and doing a search, but there was no real answer. 

There was reference to Elijah and when Paul was caught up to the third heaven, but no real answer. 

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18 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

doesn't seem to be a consistent view of what constitutes a "rapture".

I don't understand, what doesn't?

 

I mean a rapture where people will be taken up to heaven and not left here on Earth when Jesus comes back to take them. 

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6 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Just curious if the regular jw believes in a rapture. I mean I do, but I wonder if jws do. 

Yes, the regular JW believes in a rapture (although some still do not yet know that this is what they believe, because the teaching is rarely repeated). The primary scriptures that indicates the "rapture" have now been explained to be a sudden (instantaneous) taking of that person, while still alive, from earth to heaven. The reason we avoid the term "rapture" is because most of Christendom believes that the person keeps their physical body, and we believe that the physical body is instantly turned into a spiritual body at the time of the "rapture."

Other scriptures that seem to refer to a rapture have not been interpreted to refer to this same "rapture" event:

(Matthew 24:39-41) . . .and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. 41 Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken along and the other abandoned.

Those verses (and equivalents in Luke) might be another reason that some JWs are not yet aware that they believe in a "rapture." But the recently clarified explanation for the verses below has changed the way we speak about the rapture.

(1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17) . . .because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air. . .

(1 Corinthians 15:51, 52) 51 Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Note the 2015 Watchtower:

*** w15 7/15 p. 18 par. 14 “Your Deliverance Is Getting Near”! ***
So, what is this gathering work that Jesus mentions? It is the time when the remaining ones of the 144,000 will receive their heavenly reward. (1 Thess. 4:15-17; Rev. 14:1) This event will take place at some point after the beginning of the attack by Gog of Magog. (Ezek. 38:11) Then these words of Jesus will be fulfilled: “At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father.”—Matt. 13:43.
Does this mean that there will be a “rapture” of the anointed ones? Many in Christendom believe, according to this teaching, that Christians will be bodily caught up from the earth. Then, they expect that Jesus will visibly return to rule the earth. However, the Bible clearly shows that “the sign of the Son of man” will appear in heaven and that Jesus will come “on the clouds of heaven.” (Matt. 24:30) Both of these expressions imply invisibility. Additionally, “flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom.” So those who will be taken to heaven will first need to be “changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.” (Read 1 Corinthians 15:50-53.) Therefore, while we do not use the term “rapture” here because of its wrong connotation, the remaining faithful anointed will be gathered together in an instant of time.

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5 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Jacob sod pottage.

 
Similar, perhaps. But note that the common defintion, doesn't necessarily connote the incorrect baggage. Shiwiii clarified: 
 
14 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

I mean a rapture where people will be taken up to heaven and not left here on Earth when Jesus comes back to take them.

And Google provides the following as the top definitions in this context.

rap·ture
/ˈrapCHər/
   
noun: North American
 
(according to some millenarian teaching) the transporting of believers to heaven at the Second Coming of Christ.

  verb: North American

(according to some millenarian teaching) transport (a believer) from earth to heaven at the Second Coming of Christ.

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7 hours ago, JW Insider said:

And Google provides the following as the top definitions in this context.  

noun: North American
  
(according to some millenarian teaching) the transporting of believers to heaven at the Second Coming of Christ.

These definitions confirm the incorrectness of applying the term "rapture" if this is what it is understood to mean. It might make sense to someone who believed that Jesus was "transported" to earth when he came to offer the Ransom Sacrifice.

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2 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Souls... not physical bodies will be taken up. 

I understand the point you are making ... and it is a good extrapolation ... except a "soul" is someone ( OR SOME LIVING CREATURE ...) who breathes atmospheric oxygen mix.   The reason we do NOT have to bleed fish (often caught in nets by the thousands ...) is that they ARE not souls. They do not live and breathe air.

I eat clam chowder at least four times a week.

How would you bleed a clam?

They are CHANGED in the twinkling of an eye ... to another life form ... not extracted.

Uh... people, not clams.

 

 

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35 Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies. 37 And as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but just a bare grain, whether of wheat or of some other kind of seed; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and gives to each of the seeds its own body.... 
 

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35 Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies. 37 And as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but just a bare grain, whether of wheat or of some other kind of seed; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and gives to each of the seeds its own body.
35 Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies. 37 And as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but just a bare grain, whether of wheat or of some other kind of seed; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and gives to each of the seeds its own body.
 

 

oops

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42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 
 

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8 hours ago, Outta Here said:

These definitions confirm the incorrectness of applying the term "rapture" if this is what it is understood to mean. It might make sense to someone who believed that Jesus was "transported" to earth when he came to offer the Ransom Sacrifice.

No one is claiming those definitions are the best, just that the common definition of rapture as a change of state need not carry the false baggage of believing that physical bodies go to heaven.

I have no problem with the word transported in this case either, as long as we know we are talking about the "life force" of the Son of God being transferred into the womb of Mary. Note:

*** w62 3/1 p. 160 Questions From Readers ***
The Greek word at Hebrews 11:5 rendered “transferred” in the New World Translation has the meaning of “transfer,” “transport,” or “change the place of.” It seems that the experience of the apostle Paul throws light on this matter, since he was transferred or caught up to the third heaven; whether in the body or out of the body, he was not able to say. In this state he caught a vision of the future spiritual paradise of the Christian congregation. (2 Cor. 12:1-4) Apparently it was in a similar state of spiritual rapture or ecstasy, while having a vision of the earthly paradise (Enoch not knowing anything about a spiritual one), that God took Enoch away or put him to sleep.

*** w70 6/1 p. 327 par. 9 Do You Have “Faith to the Preserving Alive of the Soul”? ***
Enoch was thus “transferred so as not to see death,” but first “he had the witness that he had pleased God well.” (Heb. 11:5) How so? The Greek word rendered “transferred” at Hebrews 11:5 means “transfer,” “transport” or “change the place of” and is suggestive of what happened to Paul. He was transferred or caught up to the “third heaven” miraculously, receiving a vision of the future spiritual paradise of the Christian congregation. (2 Cor. 12:1-4) Enoch, who knew nothing about a spiritual paradise, was apparently in a comparable condition of rapture . . .

Perhaps it's a North American thing, but I don't see a problem with Jehovah transporting the life of Jesus from heaven to earth, and then knowing that he was "caught up" to heaven when his life was transferred (transported) from earth to heaven.

*** ws17 February p. 7 par. 15 Jehovah’s Purpose Will Be Fulfilled! ***
Jehovah transferred the life of Jesus, his first creation, from heaven to earth. (John 1:14)

(2 Corinthians 12:2-4) . . .I know a man in union with Christ who, 14 years ago—whether in the body or out of the body, I do not know; God knows—was caught away to the third heaven. 3 Yes, I know such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know; God knows— 4 who was caught away into paradise and heard words that cannot be spoken and that are not lawful for a man to say.

(1 Thessalonians 4:17) 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord.

(John 14:3) 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be.

(Acts 1:9) 9 After he had said these things, while they were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their sight.

*** w56 4/15 p. 239 Was Jesus a God-Man? ***
If Jesus had been a mere incarnation, then it would not have been necessary for God to transfer his life to an embryo in the virgin’s womb and to have Jesus born as a helpless infant, subject to human parents;

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7 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Perhaps it's a North American thing

Perhaps it is. I appreciate the references but I have a more than sneaky feeling that we just do not know what the mechanics of this transference of life really entail. I have no problem at all in accepting the fact that these things have occurred or will occur, but the attempted explanations of how I find inadequate.

There are a number of instances.

  • Enoch's transference so as not to "see death".
  • The materialisation of fully fleshly human bodies by spirit creatures
  • The restoration of life to a corpse
  • The transfer of Jesus from heaven to earth, from spirit to human form
  • The resurrection of Jesus from human death to spirit life
  • The 3rd heaven experience of Paul
  • The resurrection of humans from human death to spirit life in the heavens
  • The instantaneous transference of humans from human life on earth to spirit life in heaven
  • The resurrection of humans from death to human life on earth across the passage of time
  • The releasing of Satan from the abyss.

"Above my pay grade" is the best I can do with these matters up to now. And I am happy with that. :)

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21 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I understand the point you are making ... and it is a good extrapolation ... except a "soul" is someone ( OR SOME LIVING CREATURE ...) who breathes atmospheric oxygen mix.   The reason we do NOT have to bleed fish (often caught in nets by the thousands ...) is that they ARE not souls. They do not live and breathe air.

I eat clam chowder at least four times a week.

How would you bleed a clam?

They are CHANGED in the twinkling of an eye ... to another life form ... not extracted.

Uh... people, not clams.

 

 

I was on my work tablet, didn't want to say to much because typing on a tablet is time consuming, so thank you for clarifying my point.

 

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