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Bubba Johnson Jr

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8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

and he commanded the soldiers to go down and snatch him from their midst and bring him into the soldiers’ quarters.

hehehe, do not forget - you are in this "lion cave", "prison" voluntary, you entered in it by your own free will and choice. :))

....i am not sure about part where - but if a spirit or an angel spoke to him - because that would be contrary to official teachings how people in JW Church are not "inspired". If someone today would go with claim how spirit or angel spoke to him, people, not only worldly but JW people especially, will be very suspicious about mental health of that individual. :))

But you are Writer of books. You have licence to write what ever you like. Artistic freedom..... i almost wrote Arctic freedom but google translate put red line under word to alarm me. :)))))

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20 hours ago, Bubba Johnson Jr said:

#1 We will not know the "day or the hour" until it occurs, but we have enough evidence to see that we are, as David Shafer said "right on the cusp of the Great Tribulation

This is true. But then again this will always be true because the end is closer now than at the time we became believers.

  • (Romans 13:11, 12) . . .And do this because you know the season, that it is already the hour for you to awake from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than at the time when we became believers. 12 The night is well along; the day has drawn near.. . .

Since the late 1600's, especially, religions that focus on where we are in terms of chronology and prophecy have claimed we are at the cusp of the Great Tribulation. The Millerite movement apparently produced at least 100,000 people who could be convinced that 1843/1844 was the end. A Millerite named Barbour was able to convince Russell from his updated version of Miller's chronology that Barbour had used to prove 1873/1874 was the end. The Watchtower said that the signs were unmistakable that the last days had begun in 1799 and the Watchtower pointed to heavenly signs in the sun and stars in the early 1800's as proof. The evidence is so overwhelming now, today, that it would seem crazy to deny that we are deep into the last days, and yet we should keep in mind that the evidences seemed just as overwhelming to Miller, Barbour, Russell and others, and probably just as overwhelming to Paul's contemporaries.

And we truly HAVE been on the cusp of the Great Tribulation ever since 70 C.E. when the first part of the prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem was fulfilled. Remember that Jesus said that "immediately after those days, the sun would be darkened" etc. As Peter said, it could be 1,000 years off, and yet we are still to live as if the parousia could be within our lifetime. If we happen to survive to that time, we were on the cusp, and if we happen to die before that time, we were on the cusp, because our next waking second after our death, should be in the resurrection.

 

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This above is so funny, just as funny as the overlapping generations.  A JW excuse to keep people in the Org.

Tell them the 'end is nigh'  and also tell them they have to be a baptised JW to survive. Scaremongering and blackmail rolled into one. 

Well I suppose it does keep the $$$$$$ rolling in.  

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21 hours ago, Bubba Johnson Jr said:

#2 I would never add anything to an illustration developed by the "faithful and discreet slave" to help us to understand what Jesus Christ is saying to us NOW.

I hope you know that the ruler I added to the illustration was just a joke, to show how anxious some people are to get any additional information about the timing of the Great Tribulation. The joke is actually based on comments that Russell made, and a related comment here by someone else about how Russell had used just such a method on a rough illustration of the Great Pyramid at Giza. He took the original illustration from C. Piazzi Smyth's book (1864) about the Great Pyramid, and tried to measure various lengths to show where all the prophesied dates in the pyramid landed and finally ended. Most of this was borrowed from Joseph Seiss who had not only done the same thing, but who had "teased" the readers of his book (MIracle in Stone, 1877) by producing an illustration which didn't exactly predict the end date but showed the reader the "known" dates, in an illustration and then tempted the reader with just how easy it would be to see where the dates of the Great Pyramid finally dropped off. He said he wouldn't include that date in the text of his book because it might not be prudent. It was clearly designed to tempt readers to get out a ruler and measure it for themselves.

    Hello guest!

C. Piazzi Smyth himself and Seiss, elsewhere, had predicted dates for the end from the 1880's up until the early 1900's as each previous date failed.

So my joke was NOT intended to add any further information about what we could know, but only because I agree with Jesus and Paul about the silliness of any such attempts:

  • (Acts 1:7) 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.
  • (1 Thessalonians 5:1) . . .Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you.

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37 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Not so much as it encourages people not to blow off Jesus’ words as nothing:

’”What I say to you, I say to all; keep on the watch.”

It is enough just to know that there will be a judgement time. And it is enough to know that God will decide when. 

Anything beyond that goes beyond the things written. 

Keep on the watch does not mean make false announcements. It does not mean frighten people into staying in an organisation.  People should be content with the 'mana', God's word the Bible. People should not need threats or blackmail. 

As the song goes 'Where is the love?' 

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45 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

So my joke was NOT intended to add any further information about what we could know, but only because I agree with Jesus and Paul about the silliness of any such attempts:

  • (Acts 1:7) 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.
  • (1 Thessalonians 5:1) . . .Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you.

Oh, Ok. I misunderstood the joke. Was my explanation clear. I tried to keep my thoughts together long enough to type them out. This was something that just dawned on me because of comments in recent WT studies. I realized that I did not fully understand those scriptures in 1 Thess. 5. The JW Library and other web sites by WT Society makes it easy to research the scriptures thoroughly. Up to the present understanding. I appreciate your comments.

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56 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

’”What I say to you, I say to all; keep on the watch.”

Absolutely TTH! I see from your comment that you understand the significance of the heightened understanding of these things. We do not become angry and attack others simply because what is being discussed does not hold any personal interest. However, you are certainly correct about Jesus' words, 'what I say to you, -(let the reader use discernment)*my comment - I say to ALL, keep on the watch!'

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27 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It is enough just to know that there will be a judgement time. And it is enough to know that God will decide when

And it is enough to know that He won’t get around to it for a long time—it is “a long ways off.” That way, hit the ‘snooze’ and catch a few more zzzzz’s

’Keeping on the watch’ is a bear.

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It is enough just to know that there will be a judgement time. And it is enough to know that God will decide when. 

Anything beyond that goes beyond the things written. 

Keep on the watch does not mean make false announcements. It does not mean frighten people into staying in an organisation.  People should be content with the 'mana', God's word the Bible. People should not need threats or blackmail. 

As the song goes 'Where is the love?' 

These are the things that are written:

"Do not love either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16  because everything in the worldthe desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world" (1John 2:15)

John, honestly, what percentage of people would you say "love" the things in the world?

"....... you know the season, that it is already the hour for you to awake from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than at the time when we became believers. 12  The night is well along; the day has drawn near. Let us therefore throw off the works belonging to darkness and let us put on the weapons of the light. 13  Let us walk decently as in the daytime, not in wild parties and drunkenness, not in immoral intercourse and brazen conduct, not in strife and jealousy. 14  But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not be planning ahead for the desires of the flesh". (Romans13:11-14)

 “But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you  as a snare. For it will come upon all those dwelling on the face of the whole earth. 36  Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that must occur and in standing before the Son of man.” (Luke 21:34-35)

The above scriptures I conveniently extracted from a July 2016 study WT article "Why must we keep on the watch". 

The article concludes: "Through the pages of the Bible, God and Christ tell us what they have in store for us in the immediate future and how we can keep on the watch. We have to pay attention to our spirituality, to our relationship with Jehovah, and to Kingdom priorities. We must be aware of time and events so that we can be ready for what is coming. (Rev. 22:20) Our life is at stake!

Perhaps you might want to peruse the article to check that there is nothing beyond what is written in the scriptures.

    Hello guest!

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bubba Johnson Jr said:

I realized that I did not fully understand those scriptures in 1 Thess. 5.

 

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Perhaps you might want to peruse the article to confirm that there is nothing beyond what is written in the scriptures.

Moreover, if they really wanted to pump everyone into fever pitch, as John charges they do, they would not have let 1Thess 5:2-3 go unmentioned during last week’s assigned Bible reading—the verse about “whenever they are crying ‘peace and security.’ They would have hyped it to the heavens. Instead, they let it pass unnoticed.

I think they are sailing a “steady as she goes” course among treacherous waters, doing their best not to overhype nor underhype. I just don’t like to second-guess their every move. Everyone knows what a pain a back-seat driver is. I don’t want to be one.

Does John want to go back to what he once was doing, reasoning that it is enough to know that the end is “out there somewhere?” This course I believe we are “not allowed” to take—not by the GB, but by Jesus, if we would prove ourselves faithful to him. Does John point to things he thinks the GB does wrong? (Does he ever!) I note how Miriam and Aaron began to speak against Moses on account of his Cushite wife—and how Jehovah really, really didn’t like that, and He let them hear about it. This was so even though Moses actually did have a Cushite wife.

As much as it is good to roam history in the spirit of “he who does not know history is doomed to repeat it,” it is probably one of those things we are just going to have to accept that we do from time to time. The presumed motivation for so searching past publications is so that we do not yet again emerge with egg on our face when something doesn’t turn out as anticipated. I think it is fair to assume that we may—for the alternative is to forget all about “keeping on the watch”—the opposite shoal, which is even more dangerous than the one we are trying to navigate.

To the extent that the intent is to appear “respectable” by never again having to backtrack on prior expectations, I think the intent is misguided, though certainly understandable. Paul was described as a “pest” who was leading a “sect.” Witnesses today can expect no more. Christians then were considered the “offscouring” of the earth. Witnesses today can expect no more. 

What we have on this site is multiple players trying to make the case that the doers are doing it wrong—overlooking the fact that in most cases they themselves are doing nothing. Witnesses just have to accept that it will be that way. Malcontents and renegades will pick up the same refrain as you-know-who, the one who “accuses our brothers day and night before our God.”

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Request please:  would people refrain from down voting or up voting the arrow on the left because it throws the whole thread out of sinc and makes it harder to follow replies. It seems to be automatically set on "sort by votes" so if you want to see the chronological order of comments you have to keep clicking  "sort by date". It just gets to be a pain after a while.

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4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

This above is so funny, just as funny as the overlapping generations.  A JW excuse to keep people in the Org.

WILL YOU STOP SNORING SO LOUD!? I CAN’T HEAR MYSELF THINK!

You know, the more I think about it, the more I think John is right. Yes, I will backtrack some.

I now think that the end is probably a long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long ways off.

Tennis, anyone?

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@AnnaI would say 99.9% of the human race love the things of the world, including most JW's. Remember it was not that long ago I was one. JW's here in the UK are still having new houses built for them, still working long hours, still buying new cars. Still having parties, rather strange fancy dress parties actually, Elders dressing up as Batman and Incredible Hulk and putting photos up on their Facebook pages. No different to people of the world. Those things are not bad of course but what I'm saying is that most JW's here in the UK are 'still using the world to the full'. It would be stupid to try to pretend that JW's are much different to  anyone else in their daily lives. I've mentioned one young Elder before that spends a lot of time in his local pub and rides a bicycle to the pub but has to push the bike home due to his not being able to balance it to ride it home. :) I think it funny in a way, but I'm just relating it here to 'things of the world'. 

As for @TrueTomHarley well no hope I suppose. He dodges the points I make because he knows they are true. 

And poor old Tom is caught up with GB propaganda about the GB being equal to MOSES. Tom Tom, we've had this discussion so many times before.

MOSES WAS INSPIRED OF GOD AND PROVED IT. The GB are not inspired of God and admit it. Mose had direct contact with God and was given direct instruction BY GOD. The GB pretend to be the F&DS but CANNOT PROVE IT. AND, by their MISTAKES  you will know they are frauds. Does that not make any sense to you ? 

I know that God will have an honest loving organisation before the judgement comes. But at this moment in time the JW Org is not that honest loving organisation, and the GB are not serving God in an honest loving way. 

When an organisation has to use threats, lies and scaremongering to keep it's congregants, and has to make up rules that go beyond the scriptures (just as the Pharisees did),  and has to 'clean the outside of the dish or bowl' but not the inside, then it is obviously not God's true organisation. 

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21 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

WILL YOU STOP SNORING SO LOUD!? I CAN’T HEAR MYSELF THINK!

You know, the more I think about it, the more I think John is right. Yes, I will backtrack some.

I now think that the end is probably a long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long ways off.

Tennis, anyone?

Tom shows his fear of truth by trying to hide truth with sarcasm.  

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10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I hope you know that the ruler I added to the illustration was just a joke, to show how anxious some people are to get any additional information about the timing of the Great Tribulation.

First, everyone should stick to the subject matter, rather than submit rolling commentaries to distract from that subject matter. It seems that’s where your deception lies. Adding meaningless rhetoric to impress the otherwise ignorant person, that seems to think, you have brought in new light by your ignorant approach.

But it’s good you clarified your deception. Russell, didn’t really care for the pyramidology other than to prove there were other means of concluding the gentile times. This is why Rutherford didn’t care for it either, and dropped it from the Bible Student ideology. That doesn’t mean, those independent Bible Student Congregations that supported the ideology didn’t continue to promote it.

It continues to amaze me how little you know about the bible Student era. How embarrassing! Especially when you are desperately trying to equate the Watchtower with Miller’s Adventism. When those that Russell associated with, disappointed him in the end, were at least far right with the second Adventist.

Some Modern-Day Bible Students do consider to be part of that past, however, not all congregations feel the same way.

To an extent, people need to understand even with the simplest of phrases like “Bible Student” since everyone renewing their faith in understanding scripture was and continues to be a BIBLE STUDENT!

While we are neither "Millerites" nor "Adventists," yet we believe that this much of this parable met its fulfillment in 1843 and 1844, when William Miller and others, Bible in hand, walked out by faith on its statements, expecting Jesus at that time. They were composed like all other earthly companies of two or more classes; one class had the Spirit in their hearts as well as its light in the Word (oil in their vessels and in their lamps) others had only the light of the Word (oil in the lamp).

The disappointment of that company of Christians (which was composed of many of the best Christians from all denominations) all are well aware of, but it was foretold in the parable: "While the Bridegroom tarried they all slumbered and slept." As a general arousing of the church to the investigation of God's Word had attended the preaching of Mr. Miller, and the Word was more studied than ever before, especially the Prophecies, so when his calculations seemed to end in such bitter disappointment, a spirit of drowsiness followed; some slumbered, some slept, and many vagaries—dreamings incidental to sleep soon sprung up.

PAROUSIA AND EPIPHANIA

Many Bible students hold that this parable began to have its fulfilment in the Millerite Movement, which in 1844 culminated in a disappointment. For some fourteen years prior to that time a cry had gone forth throughout the Church that the time of the Second Coming of Christ was at hand. History tells us that many noble characters of all denominations believed the Message and, in the strength of their faith, went forth to meet the Bridegroom. But they were disappointed, in that the Bridegroom tarried…An increasing number of Bible students believe that this latter cry sounded forth just thirty years after the disappointment of the followers of William Miller; namely, in 1874. They do not claim that Jesus came in the flesh then; but, on the contrary, they hold that He is never to come in the flesh—that He is flesh no longer, that He has "ascended up where He was before"—to the spirit plane—far above angels.

The movement noted by our Lord in this parable corresponds exactly to one which began with the "Miller movement," and which is still in progress. That, though begun by a Baptist, was an undenominational movement, joined in by the most devout and faithful of all denominations. Accounts of those times, of their fervency of zeal, etc.,

Pastor Russell while he didn’t agree with Adventism did find it to be a starting point to good things ahead for a better bible understanding. He might have commented with things like giving an accolade to Miller that ex-witnesses enjoy quoting but was done out of respect for the clergy class.

Does that mean Russell respected all, clergy class? No! Those that disrespected him as a Pastor would receive in kind as arguments went, through publications.

Another thing opposers do is try to read between the lines to spin the narrative their way. Mainly, you just proven my argument, when its far from it when understanding things as a whole rather than convenience.

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I would say 99.9% of the human race love the things of the world, including most JW's. Remember it was not that long ago I was one. JW's here in the UK are still having new houses built for them, still working long hours, still buying new cars. Still having parties, rather strange fancy dress parties actually, Elders dressing up as Batman and Incredible Hulk and putting photos up on their Facebook pages. No different to people of the world. Those things are not bad of course but what I'm saying is that most JW's here in the UK are 'still using the world to the full

Thank you for supporting the point I was trying to make. Yes, the majority of mankind, which includes many, many JWs, love the things in the world. So as you see, it's not enough to

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

 know that there will be a judgement time

I am sure you will agree that anyone who is concerned about this situation is moved to frequently remind the brothers and sisters of the urgency to keep on the watch.  Hence the magazine  "Why we must keep on the watch"

    Hello guest!

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