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8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

and he commanded the soldiers to go down and snatch him from their midst and bring him into the soldiers’ quarters.

hehehe, do not forget - you are in this "lion cave", "prison" voluntary, you entered in it by your own free will and choice. :))

....i am not sure about part where - but if a spirit or an angel spoke to him - because that would be contrary to official teachings how people in JW Church are not "inspired". If someone today would go with claim how spirit or angel spoke to him, people, not only worldly but JW people especially, will be very suspicious about mental health of that individual. :))

But you are Writer of books. You have licence to write what ever you like. Artistic freedom..... i almost wrote Arctic freedom but google translate put red line under word to alarm me. :)))))

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20 hours ago, Bubba Johnson Jr said:

#1 We will not know the "day or the hour" until it occurs, but we have enough evidence to see that we are, as David Shafer said "right on the cusp of the Great Tribulation

This is true. But then again this will always be true because the end is closer now than at the time we became believers.

  • (Romans 13:11, 12) . . .And do this because you know the season, that it is already the hour for you to awake from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than at the time when we became believers. 12 The night is well along; the day has drawn near.. . .

Since the late 1600's, especially, religions that focus on where we are in terms of chronology and prophecy have claimed we are at the cusp of the Great Tribulation. The Millerite movement apparently produced at least 100,000 people who could be convinced that 1843/1844 was the end. A Millerite named Barbour was able to convince Russell from his updated version of Miller's chronology that Barbour had used to prove 1873/1874 was the end. The Watchtower said that the signs were unmistakable that the last days had begun in 1799 and the Watchtower pointed to heavenly signs in the sun and stars in the early 1800's as proof. The evidence is so overwhelming now, today, that it would seem crazy to deny that we are deep into the last days, and yet we should keep in mind that the evidences seemed just as overwhelming to Miller, Barbour, Russell and others, and probably just as overwhelming to Paul's contemporaries.

And we truly HAVE been on the cusp of the Great Tribulation ever since 70 C.E. when the first part of the prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem was fulfilled. Remember that Jesus said that "immediately after those days, the sun would be darkened" etc. As Peter said, it could be 1,000 years off, and yet we are still to live as if the parousia could be within our lifetime. If we happen to survive to that time, we were on the cusp, and if we happen to die before that time, we were on the cusp, because our next waking second after our death, should be in the resurrection.

 

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This above is so funny, just as funny as the overlapping generations.  A JW excuse to keep people in the Org.

Tell them the 'end is nigh'  and also tell them they have to be a baptised JW to survive. Scaremongering and blackmail rolled into one. 

Well I suppose it does keep the $$$$$$ rolling in.  

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21 hours ago, Bubba Johnson Jr said:

#2 I would never add anything to an illustration developed by the "faithful and discreet slave" to help us to understand what Jesus Christ is saying to us NOW.

I hope you know that the ruler I added to the illustration was just a joke, to show how anxious some people are to get any additional information about the timing of the Great Tribulation. The joke is actually based on comments that Russell made, and a related comment here by someone else about how Russell had used just such a method on a rough illustration of the Great Pyramid at Giza. He took the original illustration from C. Piazzi Smyth's book (1864) about the Great Pyramid, and tried to measure various lengths to show where all the prophesied dates in the pyramid landed and finally ended. Most of this was borrowed from Joseph Seiss who had not only done the same thing, but who had "teased" the readers of his book (MIracle in Stone, 1877) by producing an illustration which didn't exactly predict the end date but showed the reader the "known" dates, in an illustration and then tempted the reader with just how easy it would be to see where the dates of the Great Pyramid finally dropped off. He said he wouldn't include that date in the text of his book because it might not be prudent. It was clearly designed to tempt readers to get out a ruler and measure it for themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramidology#Joseph_A._Seiss

C. Piazzi Smyth himself and Seiss, elsewhere, had predicted dates for the end from the 1880's up until the early 1900's as each previous date failed.

So my joke was NOT intended to add any further information about what we could know, but only because I agree with Jesus and Paul about the silliness of any such attempts:

  • (Acts 1:7) 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.
  • (1 Thessalonians 5:1) . . .Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you.

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37 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Not so much as it encourages people not to blow off Jesus’ words as nothing:

’”What I say to you, I say to all; keep on the watch.”

It is enough just to know that there will be a judgement time. And it is enough to know that God will decide when. 

Anything beyond that goes beyond the things written. 

Keep on the watch does not mean make false announcements. It does not mean frighten people into staying in an organisation.  People should be content with the 'mana', God's word the Bible. People should not need threats or blackmail. 

As the song goes 'Where is the love?' 

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45 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

So my joke was NOT intended to add any further information about what we could know, but only because I agree with Jesus and Paul about the silliness of any such attempts:

  • (Acts 1:7) 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.
  • (1 Thessalonians 5:1) . . .Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you.

Oh, Ok. I misunderstood the joke. Was my explanation clear. I tried to keep my thoughts together long enough to type them out. This was something that just dawned on me because of comments in recent WT studies. I realized that I did not fully understand those scriptures in 1 Thess. 5. The JW Library and other web sites by WT Society makes it easy to research the scriptures thoroughly. Up to the present understanding. I appreciate your comments.

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56 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

’”What I say to you, I say to all; keep on the watch.”

Absolutely TTH! I see from your comment that you understand the significance of the heightened understanding of these things. We do not become angry and attack others simply because what is being discussed does not hold any personal interest. However, you are certainly correct about Jesus' words, 'what I say to you, -(let the reader use discernment)*my comment - I say to ALL, keep on the watch!'

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27 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It is enough just to know that there will be a judgement time. And it is enough to know that God will decide when

And it is enough to know that He won’t get around to it for a long time—it is “a long ways off.” That way, hit the ‘snooze’ and catch a few more zzzzz’s

’Keeping on the watch’ is a bear.

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    • @JW Insider and there's your 15 minutes of fame!
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    • Probably depends on the book or article and the particular writer assigned. For example, 1914 is mentioned in Chapter 8 but the whole big section on 1914 with charts and diagrams in "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" were moved to the Appendix, whereas they had previously been in the main text. The 2018 Watchtower Study edition never mentioned 1914 once. The 2018 Watchtower Public edition only mentioned 1914 once.* The 2019 Watchtower Public editions never mentioned 1914 once. *And only as a fulfillment for Jesus' prophecy about wars and reports of wars, NOT as a fulfillment related to Christ's enthronement. Compare this to 76 mentions in the Watchtower for 2014. This is not enough to measure a trend yet, but it's something to watch for. *** w79 9/15 p. 23 par. 8 The “Cup” That All Nations Must Drink at God’s Hand *** Why did Jehovah call King Nebuchadnezzar “my servant”? Because He used him to punish the people of Judah for their refusal to listen to His prophets. 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For this reason Jehovah spoke of him as “my servant” and gave him the domination over other nations of this world. In this capacity Nebuchadnezzar was a type of Jesus Christ. The 100 plus teachings that would be impacted by the October 2014 Annual Meeting talk, and the subsequent Watchtower in March 15, 2015 would include these 42 from the book "You May Survive Armageddon into God's New World": 80 more of these were included in a 1981 Watchtower: *** w81 3/1 p. 27 Do You Appreciate the “Faithful and Discreet Slave”? *** OVERWHELMING CREDENTIALS The “faithful and discreet slave” has abundant credentials. Following is a partial list of Scriptural and prophetic designations applying to or being represented in the remnant of Jesus Christ’s anointed followers since the notable year 1919: (1) Noah’s wife, Gen. 7:7; (2) angels sent to Lot, Gen. 19:15; (3) Rebekah, Gen. 24:64; (4) Joseph and Benjamin, Gen. 45:14; (5) gleanings left behind, Lev. 19:9; (6) two spies to Rahab, Josh. 2:4; (7) Barak, Judg. 4:14; (8) Jephthah, Judg. 11:34; (9) Naomi and Ruth, Ruth 2:2; (10) David’s Israelite warriors, 2 Sam. 18:1; (11) Jehu, 2 Ki. 10:11, 15; (12) Mordecai and Esther, Esther 4:13; (13) Job, Job 42:10, 13; (14) King’s daughter, Ps. 45:13; (15) men of loving-kindness, Ps. 50:5; (16) intimate group, Ps. 89:7; (17) Shear-jashub, Isa. 7:3; (18) light of the nations, Isa. 60:3; (19) big trees of righteousness, Isa. 61:3; (20) ministers of our God, Isa. 61:6; (21) cluster preserved, Isa. 65:8; (22) servants called by another name, Isa. 65:15; (23) men trembling at God’s word, Isa. 66:5; (24) new nation born, Isa. 66:8; (25) Jeremiah, Jer. 1:10; (26) Jehovah’s people in the new covenant, Jer. 31:33; (27) enduring watchman, Ezek. 3:16-27; (28) man in linen, Ezek. 9:2; (29) cleansed people, Ezek. 36:29-32; (30) dwellers in center of earth, Ezek. 38:12; (31) the host of heaven, Dan. 8:10; (32) sanctuary restored (cleansed), Dan. 8:14; (33) they that are wise, Dan. 11:33; (34) the happy one who is keeping in expectation, Dan. 12:12; (35) all flesh receiving the spirit, Joel 2:28; (36) Jonah, Jon. 3:1-3; (37) apple of Jehovah’s eye, Zech. 2:8; (38) liberated remnant, Zech. 2:7; (39) a Jew, Zech. 8:23; (40) sons of Levi, Mal. 3:3; (41) wheat, Matt. 13:25; (42) sons of the kingdom, Matt. 13:38; (43) workers for the vineyard, Matt. 20:1; (44) those invited to marriage feast, Matt. 22:3-14; (45) chosen ones, Matt. 24:22; (46) eagles, Matt. 24:28; (47) faithful and discreet slave, Matt. 24:45; (48) discreet virgins, Matt. 25:2; (49) brothers of the king, Matt. 25:40; (50) little flock of sheep, Luke 12:32; (51) beggar Lazarus, Luke 16:20; (52) sheep in “this fold,” John 10:1-16; (53) branches of the vine, John 15:4; (54) royal palace of David, Acts 15:16; (55) heirs with Christ, Rom. 8:17; (56) the remnant, Rom. 11:5; (57) branches in the olive tree, Rom. 11:24; (58) holy ones or saints, 1 Cor. 6:2; Rev. 16:6; (59) temple, 1 Cor. 6:19; (60) new creation, 2 Cor. 5:17; (61) ambassadors for Christ, 2 Cor. 5:20; (62) congregation of God, Gal. 1:13; (63) part of Abraham’s seed, Gal. 3:29; (64) Israel of God, Gal. 6:16; (65) body of Christ, Eph. 1:22, 23; (66) soldiers of Christ Jesus, 2 Tim. 2:3; (67) house under Christ, Heb. 3:6; (68) holy priesthood, 1 Pet. 2:5; (69) holy nation, 1 Pet. 2:9; (70) association of brothers, 1 Pet. 2:17; (71) seven congregations, Rev. 1:20; (72) twenty-four persons of advanced age, Rev. 4:4; (73) spiritual Israel, Rev. 7:4; (74) locusts, Rev. 9:3; (75) two witnesses, Rev. 11:3; (76) two olive trees, Rev. 11:4; (77) seed of the woman, Rev. 12:17; (78) New Jerusalem, Rev. 21:2; (79) the bride of Christ, Rev. 22:17; 19:7; (80) Jehovah’s witnesses, Isa. 43:10.
    • @Srecko Sostar  Here in the UK we would say that you have 'opened up a can of worms'  with your words above.  You have opened the way to hundreds of questions.  And although @Witness gives some very fine comments, she/he also opens the way to many questions.  For God to fulfil his 'plans' I would think He would need some kind of 'united people' Earth wide. And hence He would need to guide those people by using/sending His Holy Spirit to them.  But as the GB and presumably the Writing Dept et al, admit to not receiving God's Holy Spirit  then I presume God cannot be using them at this time. No i don't expect humans to be perfect or to act perfectly. But I do expect anyone chosen by God, to become leaders in God's chosen 'united people', to be inspired by God's Holy spirit so as to do their jobs properly.   As you say Srecko, God works through His Holy Spirit. He has always done so in the past, why would He not do so now ?  
    • It was Splane's "historic" (they called it) Annual Meeting talk in October 2014, especially when he referred to how Brother Bert Schroeder had counseled exactly this, many years earlier. Schroeder's statement was kind of a "motto" that Brother Splane repeated as the primary takeaway for this new way of looking at these portions of Scripture. That point was rewritten in the March 15, 2015 Watchtower, p.18 as follows: “Humans cannot know which Bible accounts are shadows of things to come and which are not. The clearest course is this: Where the Scriptures teach that an individual, an event, or an object is typical of something else, we accept it as such. Otherwise, we ought to be reluctant to assign an antitypical application to a certain person or account if there is no specific Scriptural basis for doing so.” The original video is now here: https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODPgmEvtAnnMtg/pub-jwbam_201410_1_VIDEO "Types and Antitypes." It starts at about 2 hours:8 minutes into the video. At 2h:13m:07s he says: "Now we know that these [ones spoken of by Jesus and Paul] are genuine types because the word of God says they are. But here is the question: Who is to decide if a person or an event is a type, if the word of God doesn't say anything about it? Who is qualified to do that? Our answer? We can do no better than to quote our beloved Brother Albert Schroeder who said, 'We need to exercise great care when applying accounts in the Hebrew Scriptures as prophetic patterns or types if these accounts are not applied in the Scriptures themselves." Wasn't that a beautiful statement! We agree with it. After giving several examples of this "typology" (as he called it) from several different religions, including religions the Bible Students had been part of. And these religions often applied these types to themselves, just as the Watchtower applied many of them to Bible Students and Witnesses in modern times.  Brother Splane repeats that the most important problem with them is that these applications were not found in the Scriptures themselves. He even asks, "If the study of a certain subject makes chills run up and down your spine, could it possibly be mistaken?' And the answer was YES!" Then at 2h:19m:22s he repeats this idea again, and says: "Well, in recent years the trend in our publications has been to look for the practical application of Bible events and not for types where the scripture themselves do not identify themselves as such. We simply cannot go beyond what is written!" There's a funny thing Splane does in the video where he almost makes it look like the Pyramid idea came from a Brother A. Smith who wrote the Society from time to time to tell them his ideas about how the Pyramid told of God's purpose. He gives the impression that Russell only mentioned it once, but that this brother was so "emotionally" involved with the idea that he wrote to the Society about it several times. You can compare this to the actual things that Russell and Rutherford said about the Pyramid, and draw your own conclusion as to what Brother Splane is doing here. I also think it's curious that Albert Schroeder had died many years before, and this particular idea had been first expressed by others and finally by Brother Schroeder, too, several years before he died. Evidently not enough members of the Governing Body agreed with it at the time. But, even though it was now several years later, Brother Splane in 2014 can say it was a beautiful statement, and that 'we agree with it.'
    • I was just kidd8ng about thor, I know he doesn't really exist. So when Christians get together for Thanksgiving and pray to Yaweh, you jw's are calling Yaweh a pagan god....this is blasphemy of the highest sort.
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