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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It is enough just to know that there will be a judgement time. And it is enough to know that God will decide when. 

Anything beyond that goes beyond the things written. 

Keep on the watch does not mean make false announcements. It does not mean frighten people into staying in an organisation.  People should be content with the 'mana', God's word the Bible. People should not need threats or blackmail. 

As the song goes 'Where is the love?' 

These are the things that are written:

"Do not love either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16  because everything in the worldthe desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world" (1John 2:15)

John, honestly, what percentage of people would you say "love" the things in the world?

"....... you know the season, that it is already the hour for you to awake from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than at the time when we became believers. 12  The night is well along; the day has drawn near. Let us therefore throw off the works belonging to darkness and let us put on the weapons of the light. 13  Let us walk decently as in the daytime, not in wild parties and drunkenness, not in immoral intercourse and brazen conduct, not in strife and jealousy. 14  But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not be planning ahead for the desires of the flesh". (Romans13:11-14)

 “But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you  as a snare. For it will come upon all those dwelling on the face of the whole earth. 36  Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that must occur and in standing before the Son of man.” (Luke 21:34-35)

The above scriptures I conveniently extracted from a July 2016 study WT article "Why must we keep on the watch". 

The article concludes: "Through the pages of the Bible, God and Christ tell us what they have in store for us in the immediate future and how we can keep on the watch. We have to pay attention to our spirituality, to our relationship with Jehovah, and to Kingdom priorities. We must be aware of time and events so that we can be ready for what is coming. (Rev. 22:20) Our life is at stake!

Perhaps you might want to peruse the article to check that there is nothing beyond what is written in the scriptures.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-july-2016/why-keep-on-the-watch/

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bubba Johnson Jr said:

I realized that I did not fully understand those scriptures in 1 Thess. 5.

 

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Perhaps you might want to peruse the article to confirm that there is nothing beyond what is written in the scriptures.

Moreover, if they really wanted to pump everyone into fever pitch, as John charges they do, they would not have let 1Thess 5:2-3 go unmentioned during last week’s assigned Bible reading—the verse about “whenever they are crying ‘peace and security.’ They would have hyped it to the heavens. Instead, they let it pass unnoticed.

I think they are sailing a “steady as she goes” course among treacherous waters, doing their best not to overhype nor underhype. I just don’t like to second-guess their every move. Everyone knows what a pain a back-seat driver is. I don’t want to be one.

Does John want to go back to what he once was doing, reasoning that it is enough to know that the end is “out there somewhere?” This course I believe we are “not allowed” to take—not by the GB, but by Jesus, if we would prove ourselves faithful to him. Does John point to things he thinks the GB does wrong? (Does he ever!) I note how Miriam and Aaron began to speak against Moses on account of his Cushite wife—and how Jehovah really, really didn’t like that, and He let them hear about it. This was so even though Moses actually did have a Cushite wife.

As much as it is good to roam history in the spirit of “he who does not know history is doomed to repeat it,” it is probably one of those things we are just going to have to accept that we do from time to time. The presumed motivation for so searching past publications is so that we do not yet again emerge with egg on our face when something doesn’t turn out as anticipated. I think it is fair to assume that we may—for the alternative is to forget all about “keeping on the watch”—the opposite shoal, which is even more dangerous than the one we are trying to navigate.

To the extent that the intent is to appear “respectable” by never again having to backtrack on prior expectations, I think the intent is misguided, though certainly understandable. Paul was described as a “pest” who was leading a “sect.” Witnesses today can expect no more. Christians then were considered the “offscouring” of the earth. Witnesses today can expect no more. 

What we have on this site is multiple players trying to make the case that the doers are doing it wrong—overlooking the fact that in most cases they themselves are doing nothing. Witnesses just have to accept that it will be that way. Malcontents and renegades will pick up the same refrain as you-know-who, the one who “accuses our brothers day and night before our God.”

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Request please:  would people refrain from down voting or up voting the arrow on the left because it throws the whole thread out of sinc and makes it harder to follow replies. It seems to be automatically set on "sort by votes" so if you want to see the chronological order of comments you have to keep clicking  "sort by date". It just gets to be a pain after a while.

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4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

This above is so funny, just as funny as the overlapping generations.  A JW excuse to keep people in the Org.

WILL YOU STOP SNORING SO LOUD!? I CAN’T HEAR MYSELF THINK!

You know, the more I think about it, the more I think John is right. Yes, I will backtrack some.

I now think that the end is probably a long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long ways off.

Tennis, anyone?

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@AnnaI would say 99.9% of the human race love the things of the world, including most JW's. Remember it was not that long ago I was one. JW's here in the UK are still having new houses built for them, still working long hours, still buying new cars. Still having parties, rather strange fancy dress parties actually, Elders dressing up as Batman and Incredible Hulk and putting photos up on their Facebook pages. No different to people of the world. Those things are not bad of course but what I'm saying is that most JW's here in the UK are 'still using the world to the full'. It would be stupid to try to pretend that JW's are much different to  anyone else in their daily lives. I've mentioned one young Elder before that spends a lot of time in his local pub and rides a bicycle to the pub but has to push the bike home due to his not being able to balance it to ride it home. :) I think it funny in a way, but I'm just relating it here to 'things of the world'. 

As for @TrueTomHarley well no hope I suppose. He dodges the points I make because he knows they are true. 

And poor old Tom is caught up with GB propaganda about the GB being equal to MOSES. Tom Tom, we've had this discussion so many times before.

MOSES WAS INSPIRED OF GOD AND PROVED IT. The GB are not inspired of God and admit it. Mose had direct contact with God and was given direct instruction BY GOD. The GB pretend to be the F&DS but CANNOT PROVE IT. AND, by their MISTAKES  you will know they are frauds. Does that not make any sense to you ? 

I know that God will have an honest loving organisation before the judgement comes. But at this moment in time the JW Org is not that honest loving organisation, and the GB are not serving God in an honest loving way. 

When an organisation has to use threats, lies and scaremongering to keep it's congregants, and has to make up rules that go beyond the scriptures (just as the Pharisees did),  and has to 'clean the outside of the dish or bowl' but not the inside, then it is obviously not God's true organisation. 

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21 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

WILL YOU STOP SNORING SO LOUD!? I CAN’T HEAR MYSELF THINK!

You know, the more I think about it, the more I think John is right. Yes, I will backtrack some.

I now think that the end is probably a long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long ways off.

Tennis, anyone?

Tom shows his fear of truth by trying to hide truth with sarcasm.  

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I would say 99.9% of the human race love the things of the world, including most JW's. Remember it was not that long ago I was one. JW's here in the UK are still having new houses built for them, still working long hours, still buying new cars. Still having parties, rather strange fancy dress parties actually, Elders dressing up as Batman and Incredible Hulk and putting photos up on their Facebook pages. No different to people of the world. Those things are not bad of course but what I'm saying is that most JW's here in the UK are 'still using the world to the full

Thank you for supporting the point I was trying to make. Yes, the majority of mankind, which includes many, many JWs, love the things in the world. So as you see, it's not enough to

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

 know that there will be a judgement time

I am sure you will agree that anyone who is concerned about this situation is moved to frequently remind the brothers and sisters of the urgency to keep on the watch.  Hence the magazine  "Why we must keep on the watch"

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-july-2016/why-keep-on-the-watch/

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Concerning "Loving Things of the World" ....

We are very fragile, big ugly bags of mostly water and require a LOT of things :of the world to stay alive, and healthy, and emotionally stable.

I have 16 pet chickens ( two died of heat exhaustion, from being run around the yard by my dogs, after flying out of their temporary enclosure, and I buried them this morning in the yard with little plastic pipe "tombstones" which I melted into the side with a soldering iron their names and date of death, which was yesterday).

And yet ... today at Golden Corral, my wife and I ate fried chicken, and I pondered "Am I a hypocrite, for loving both live chickens ... and those crispy fried??"

I looked at myself in the mirror, and noticed my eyes are in front (predator), and the chickens' eyes are on the side of their heads (prey), and decided that  that is the natural order of things, and I should just get used to it, without recriminations.

Besides .... "Love Never Fails" .... and with the fried  chicken .... it's no one we know.

 

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    • The bible itself says that we must not have fellowship with those who are brazen in conduct.  There is no "threat".  When a person is a spiritual threat to other brothers and sisters and does not stop brazen conduct......then only, after they have been requested many times to stop unacceptable behaviour,  are they disfellowshipped.  These are the ones who usually then defame JWs and hide the truth-  that they were disfellowshipped because of a Christian conduct,  be it repetitive lying, stealing, fornication etc...... a practice of some und of unacceptable behaviour. Many realize the need to change and come back into the fold - others become more brazen..... and defame JWs.   I see you did not like this comment. ...... it says a lot about you.  People like to blame "others" .... never themselves.... Adam blamed eve.... lol.
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    • We do have very good reasons, the math for 1914 wouldn't work out otherwise Yes, I think we would laugh. After all, messing around with numbers to "fit something you want it to fit" sounds pretty cultish. When looking at this subject again, in light of Br. Splane's talk about types and antitypes, and how he said that (paraphrased) we have to make sure that when we are talking about types, that they are genuine types, because the word of God says they are puts a whole different slant on it. Then the idea is enforced even further when he says who is to decide if a person or event is a type, if the word of God doesn't say anything about it and he quotes Br. Shroeder: ( We need to exercise great care when applying accounts in the Hebrew Scriptures as prophetic patterns or types if these accounts are not applied in the Scriptures themselves). Therefor reading the account in Daniel 4 without any preconceived ideas, I see these main lessons: verse 17  "This is by the decree of watchers, and the request is by the word of the holy ones, so that people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men.”  Lesson: (quite self explanatory really) Jehovah can do what he wants because he is the ultimate sovereign. verse 27  "Therefore, O king, may my counsel be acceptable to you. Turn away from your sins by doing what is right, and from your iniquity by showing mercy to the poor. It may be that your prosperity will be extended". Lesson: Listen to Jehovah and do right, otherwise Jehovah will discipline you. verse 37  “Now I, Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar, am praising and exalting and glorifying the King of the heavens, because all his works are truth and his ways are just, and because he is able to humiliate those who are walking in pride. Lesson: similar to above, and also proof that Jehovah carries out his discipline.  ---------------- The reasoning put forward as to why this particular chapter of Daniel (4) has greater meaning (paraphrased from WT October 2014) is that the book of Daniel has a central theme, that of God's Kingdom, and keeps pointing forward to the establishment of that Kingdom under the rulership of his Son, Jesus. For example what it says in Daniel 2:44: "“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever.” I can see that Daniel Ch 2 is talking about Neb's. dream of the statue, representing subsequent rulerships, and that during the feet period God's Kingdom will come. In my opinion this is one valid and definite description of when the Kingdom will come. Then Chapters 7 and 8 are full of cryptic beasts, Chapter 9 prophesy about the coming of the Messiah including his cutting off, chapter 11 more cryptic descriptions, this time involving the king of the north and south, and the last chapter (12) the time of the end with Michael standing up. I need an encoder! I must admit, because of my more practical disposition, when we studied the Daniel book, I did not pay enough attention. My son was quite small and I had my hands full, and I can't even remember if we studied it again after that? For example what are these numbers about?: Daniel 12:11  “And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days. 12  “Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days!" (It's ok, no need to answer, I can look it up myself).   ,Sorry, I was being confusing. I didn't mean 607 was special. I meant what happened when counting 2520 years from that date, I meant that 1914 was a very significant year. (have to go, will carry on later)
    • My daughter would play her album Time After Time, over and over. When I found out that Eva Cassidy had already died when the album came out, it kind of made a few of the songs sound even more "haunting" than they already were.
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