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Jack Ryan

Norwegian court: Disfellowshipping was against the law

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A Norwegian JW woman, who was sexually abused, was disfellowshipped for fornication. The woman first appealed inside the organization - without success. Feeling injustice, she then decided to sue Jehovah's Witnesses. The court decided last month that the disfellowshipping was against the Norwegian law and must be canceled. The court also ordered the local Jehovah's Witness organization to pay 100 000 NOK to the woman.

    Hello guest!
is the story, in a Norwegian newspaper.

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A "woman" (not a teenager) who repeatedly was abused by someone outside the congregation? 

Sounds fishy - don't you think?

Any case - we will see more and more of these type of cases as the post modern philosophy (which erodes all sense of morality) becomes the world doctrine.  All barriers to immorality will be removed and the law will be used as a weapon. Mischief by law....

I hope she enjoys her krone.... and the blow she gave the JWs.  In the end she will answer to the highest authority in the universe.   If she was humble she would have come back the way all other truly repentant) people come back...... 

The manipulation must have been really severe for her  to succumb  to the abuse more than once  and then she became a "victim" again when her victimhood was not accepted .  I wonder at what stage of the abuse this secret was revealed and by whom?

The victimhood of the post modern philosophy is really as excuse for anyone to do as they please. 

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8 hours ago, Arauna said:

A "woman" (not a teenager) who repeatedly was abused by someone outside the congregation?

Google Translation:

According to the woman, during a meeting with two of the elders in the congregation, she was informed that she would be excluded because of fornication. She thinks the reaction came after she said she had been sexually abused by a person outside the church.

Article not say that she told: Repeatedly abused.

Next what i would ask: Why she went to elders and told them about abuse?  Perhaps because elders are "Shepherds" who will help? Did she went to police too?

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It seems that the elders did not believe the woman when she said she was "abused". We don't know the whole story, we don't know the woman. I can think of a number of situations which may have incurred the decision to disfellowship. No one gets disfellowshipped for being sexually abused. (Especially not nowadays). 

I wonder if she went to the police to report the abuse. The article does not mention if she did.

 

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9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Why she went to elders and told them about abuse?  Perhaps because elders are "Shepherds" who will help? Did she went to police too?

That's what I wondered too. The whole story seems a little odd....

If this was someone outside the congregation, you would have thought she would feel very free to go to the police

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On 8/25/2019 at 3:07 PM, Jack Ryan said:

The court decided last month that the disfellowshipping was against the Norwegian law and must be canceled.

I wonder what that will do?

Will the wt abide by the law?

Will the wt appeal? 

Will Norway become a reproof only region? 

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On 8/27/2019 at 10:54 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

reaction came after she said she had been sexually abused by a person outside the church.

Consensual sex and then when you are found out you claim abuse?   ….   who ever posted this story and who believes it,  is terribly naïve.

 

On 8/27/2019 at 8:23 PM, Anna said:

If this was someone outside the congregation, you would have thought she would feel very free to go to the police

Fishy - very fishy...… her attitude in taking them to court proves she was not  innocent  because she wants revenge.  She got it.  Now we will see if she is ever repentant.   Does not seem she is repentant of her behavior though.... 

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1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Consensual sex and then when you are found out you claim abuse?

Perhaps yes, perhaps no. It seems how you and elders have suspicion that she was sincere. 

Maybe elders would be do better to ask police about it before making decision that she is "harlot" or "adulteress".

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Just now, Srecko Sostar said:

It seems how you and elders have suspicion that she was sincere. 

That means you are very gullible to believe this story.  They usually do not  disfellowship if someone goes to ask advice of elders in such cases and tell the truth. I do not know the details of this story but it seems she was discovered by other means and was not honest and upfront. How do you work with someone like that? ..... and then she took revenge by going to court...... she really sounds very repentant!   Lol! 

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@Arauna 

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

Only to those who hate Jehovah and his people

Oh dear, you still get Almighty God and the Org mixed up don't you ? 

Almighty God can be loved and served without the one loving being a JW.  And you use the word hate too freely IMO. 

I have no hate for anyone but i do have deep dislike for anyone deliberately misleading people. 

 

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7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Oh dear, you still get Almighty God and the Org mixed up don't you ? 

Playing games?  It does not hide the hate-OCD.

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13 hours ago, Arauna said:

Playing games?  It does not hide the hate-OCD.

You are the one that is playing games, just as you have been trained by your leaders. They too accuse people of things just to hide their own sins. You use this silly OCD excuse because you are frightened to answer simple questions. If only you knew how sad it makes you look. 

But I'll say again You do not know the difference between serving Almighty God through Christ, or, serving your GB and it's Org. When the GB are gone it will be such a shock to you. 

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40 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

Wouldn't be the first time a jw woman got disfellowshipped for being raped.

I personally never heard about such things. But it is possible that such decisions of the JW elders also happen.

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17 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Wouldn't be the first time a jw woman got disfellowshipped for being raped.

How naïve you are. What prohibits a person who has consensual encounters to say they were raped? … after the fact.  

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16 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But it is possible that such decisions of the JW elders also happen.

True - and they will only come to this conclusion when evidence seem to point on this direction. When a person afterwards takes them to court do you think that person had the right heart condition ? Were they sinning and then avoided the consequences of their pattern of deceit?  Not repenting for what they were involved with?

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On ‎7‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 3:15 AM, Arauna said:

How naïve you are. What prohibits a person who has consensual encounters to say they were raped? … after the fact.  

Silly me, I forgot you jw's believe children are committing fornication when they are molested.

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On 7/25/2020 at 3:32 AM, 4Jah2me said:

just as you have been trained by your leaders.

Seems you are playing up to yours. But then again, obscuring facts is a favorite here isn't it. Even some witnesses are gullible enough to accept a one-sided article as proof. I see an appeal in the horizon.

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This was the same scheme used in Canada

    Hello guest!

Now, Norway will have to explain how that court’s decision does not conflict with Norwegians new laws,  how the new law grants religious groups the right to govern themselves and choose their leaders.

In 2017, the Norwegian shifted its constitution to separate church from state after 500 years of being recognized as the same.

That judge will have to justify he has violated its own parliamentary laws governed by new legislation.

§ 2 shall sound:

Section 2. Ecclesiastal division

Soknet is the basic unit of the Church of Norway and cannot be solved from it.

The Church of Norway, as well as the individual parish, are its own legal subjects and have rights and obligations themselves, are parties to agreements with private and public authorities and have a party position with the court and other authorities.

Each parish belongs to one prostitute. Each prostitute belongs to one diocese.

Each parish shall be served by the priest, every prostitute of the prostitute and each diocese of the bishop.

Changes in the ecclesiastical division and the name of the church, parish, prosti and diocese are determined by the King. The Ministry makes the provisions necessary for the implementation of sectional changes and makes necessary changes in the application of applicable law. The decision-making authority according to this paragraph may be left to the diocese council.

 

This example is but one out of 3 acts the Watchtower needs to consider. Hopefully they will. Just like Bro Jackson told the Australian inquest, this is what happens when State tries to intervene in religious matters “without” understanding the scope of the matter in scripture, not verbatim.

This is why “gossip” is never a good thing, especially when it comes from uneducated individuals that don’t understand basic commonwealth laws.

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6 hours ago, César Chávez said:

This was the same scheme used in Canada

Article quote:

A new Supreme Court ruling that Jehovah’s Witnesses are free to banish and shun any member they wish, regardless of how they decide to do it, offers a powerful precedent for religious independence in Canada.

I would like to direct your attention how Court in Canada confirmed what WT lawyer David Gnam in UK tried to hide: JW's shun any member they wish. WT lawyer claimed before Court how: Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t use the word “shun” or “shunning”.   But this Court in Canada told The Truth, JW's not only using word shun, but have all rights to practice shunning over members (or ex members) they wish. - 

WTJWorg are so satisfied to use double measures in various court cases, and have no problem about own hypocrisy. Shameful! 

Article continue:

The top court’s decision rejects that view, bluntly refers to his “sinful” behaviour, and says it has no business making legal decisions about it. At issue were two episodes of drunkenness, one in which Wall “verbally abused” his wife, for which he was not “sufficiently repentant,” according to court records.

I don't clearly see how two episodes of drunkenness, one in which Wall “verbally abused” his wife is not something that can be  interesting to police or social  service or some other civil service in state. Drunkenness and abusing other people is something that is punishable in most countries. In his case somebody reported him to JW elders and not to secular authority for his "sinful behavior". If JW church have right, according to Canadian Supreme Court, to make decisions how they will "punish" "sinful behavior" of member, what is that different when some other church doing same according to their "religious beliefs", because as article say: But the Supreme Court has now said once and for all that the courts ought not to interfere in religious discipline.

Well, what is this different to "religious discipline", for example, to cut hand of thief or to stone adulteress because of  their "sin" -The top court’s decision rejects that view, bluntly refers to his “sinful” behaviour, and says it has no business making legal decisions about it. 

But all "civilized world" looks with disapproval when this sort of punishment is common practice in some societies. :))

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13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I would like to direct your attention how Court in Canada confirmed what WT lawyer David Gnam in UK tried to hide

Well, that's the prosecutor's perspective isn't it. They are supposed to undermine the truth, when they don't understand scripture law. However, you might try to attend a court proceeding to understand in the court system, prosecutors are obligated to exaggerate their stance, even if it becomes personal sometimes. That in itself is the problem with Scandinavian law, you have too many regulators for that region.

You also seem to dismiss the "fact" Norwegian new law also stipulates churches are now independent of state, and they have the right to run its organization as they require. Hence, making their own bylaws. Yet, it doesn't seem that country doesn't have a problem in the past about excommunication, and how well the devil is working these days.

Then you question the Watchtower bylaws as though they should be run like a government. Where in scripture can you "prove" such a notion?

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Child Sexual Abuse, Victim needs TWO Witnesses to accuse a Paedophile adult JW

Woman gets sexually abused or raped, Elders disfellowship her for fornication with no witnesses 

So where is the justice and love and mercy in either case ? 

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On 8/26/2019 at 3:34 PM, Arauna said:

 If she was humble she would have come back the way all other truly repentant

repentant to whom? Not the men on the GB nor the elders, because they mean NOTHING! 

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57 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

Well, that's the prosecutor's perspective isn't it.

Sorry, i am not follow you. Prosecutor's perspective? I made quotes from article that described Court ruling, decisions and explanations, and nothing from prosecutor or his perspective. WT lawyer who defended Organization made "perspectives" and Court made "perspectives". 

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

They are supposed to undermine the truth, when they don't understand scripture law.

With or without understanding, WT lawyers often undermine the truth. 

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

Then you question the Watchtower bylaws as though they should be run like a government. Where in scripture can you "prove" such a notion?

With or without scripture. With or without WT published material as "prove", WT Society want to act as theocratic state inside secular state. One popular Bible verse for that, for sure is, when 1st century followers were advised and recommended to go to elder's court of justice and not to secular courts, for their rights or because of lawsuits against fellow Christians. According to WT doctrines and policies, all elders are "equipped" to deal with all and every situation that can happen in "spiritual paradise" aka Organization aka JW Congregation. They formed "Judicial Committees" and other elder's bodies to fulfill various tasks in such process and proceeding. The existence of a "keepers"-brothers who monitoring (don't know English terminology in JW congregation, servant service, stewards or so) at meetings and congresses speaks of such a similarity too. Similarity is visible. 

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Sorry, i am not follow you. Prosecutor's perspective? I made quotes from article that described Court ruling, decisions and explanations, and nothing from prosecutor or his perspective. WT lawyer who defended Organization made "perspectives" and Court made "perspectives". 

That's why you are clueless in areas that are beyond your expertise

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

With or without understanding, WT lawyers often undermine the truth.

Incorrect. WT lawyers use both present secular law and Gods law combined to get the best possible solution into getting to the truth. Yours is just a matter of opinion, since you are only applying secular law. You can use the above as an illustration.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

With or without scripture. With or without WT published material as "prove", WT Society want to act as theocratic state inside secular state.

Incorrect again, secular law wants to treat the Watchtower as a regular corporation just like you, former witnesses. That isn't going to happen, while God continues to be the instrument of our faith.

If you have a problem with it, then lobby your government, that "only" the Watchtower should be looked at and penalize for just being present. I'm sure, there is enough false religions in your area that will agree with your attempts to dismantle sound Christian doctrine that comes directly from God, so you can feel about yourself.

Meantime, look over what you just posted and think hard what is your ideology.

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6 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Incorrect again, secular law wants to treat the Watchtower as a regular corporation just like you, former witnesses. That isn't going to happen, while God continues to be the instrument of our faith.

Regular or not, WT and other sister companies under GB directive are mix of many various entities in various forms of existence: IT company, Building company, Charity, Educational system, Religion, Civil participant for human and religious (political) rights in secular bodies, Financial company for collecting and multiplying money, and perhaps more.

Yes, WT is specific formation with "Priests and Kings" who wish and hope to take rulership over the Earth aka power over humankind. 

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      «We hope it does not take too long and will listen to the government's assessments as they come.»
      Reactions
      The ruling parties are careful to comment on the possibility of state aid cuts for Jehovah's Witnesses. But KrF's parliamentary representative Jorunn Gleditsch Lossius says she "responds":
      «If it is true that members of Jehovah's Witnesses can be excluded and excluded if they use the right to vote, I react strongly to this.»
      «Should state aid be withdrawn when religious communities urge members not to participate in democratic elections?»
      «The prime minister has now asked the individual county council to assess whether there have been violations of democratic rights and principles. And there will always be a delicate balance towards upholding freedom of belief.»
      Basic
      Kristin Ørmen Johnsen (H), chair of the Storting's Family and Cultural Committee, has one comment:
      «It is a fundamental right to be able to vote in elections, and it is unacceptable if someone is prevented from using their right to vote.»
      Left-wing faith and life-spokesperson Grunde Almeland says voting "one of the most fundamental rights of Norwegian citizens":
      «If authorities threaten individuals using this fundamental right with sanctions, it is, as I feel it, an abuse of power.»
      Undermines
      The Progressive Party (FrP), as the only government party, is clear that they do not want to distribute state aid to any religious community.
      «I think the matter gets extra serious when religion is used as an anti-democratic press», says Frps representative in the Family and Culture Committee, Morten Wold, and add:
      «Faith is a private matter. Once we have public support for communities of faith and beliefs, it is absolutely essential that they do not undermine democracy and violate fundamental human rights.»
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Picture in article. Photo: Xueqi Pang - the journalist.
    • By JOHN BUTLER
      I do find it kinda' funny that JW's love to talk about billions of people being removed / destroyed / killed / murdered at Armageddon. Billions of people.
      And for what ? Well JW's say it's for not serving God. But they will also say it's for not being a baptised JW. 
      Well we do know for sure that God either deliberately had, or deliberately allowed, the destruction of Jerusalem in circa 70 C E, and for what ? 
      Well the Bible shows us it was for not serving God properly, and for killing God's son. 
      BUT when I suggest that the Governing Body should be removed or destroyed, oh dear, the JW's they get really upset ya know. 
      Governing Body = 8 men.   Jerusalem = how many, men, women and children, thousands of them. 
      But oh dear, now it would be murder. So what was it back then ?  Your see JW's live in a dream world, wrapped up in cotton wool, they just cannot face the real world.
      The Governing Body do not serve God properly. That is clearly visible to anyone that honestly wants to see it. 
      The Governing Body are destroying JW Org, and if JW Org is God's true Organisation then the GB are deliberately working against God and against God's intentions. 
      Humans that deliberately work against God and cause problems for God do not last long on this Earth. 
      The Bible shows much proof of this, such as those that opposed Moses. 
      I am expecting the GB to be removed, one way or another. But only if God really wants to use the JW Org / Watchtower soc for His own purposes. 
      If God does not want to use those Orgs then it would seem sensible for God to set up a new Org for His purposes. 
      The only problem with the GB being 'removed' is that JW's will call it a 'sign of the times' and 'persecution', but if God causes the removal then I'm sure He will put them straight. 
      Those people that say that the GB cannot be removed / destroyed, are those people that worship the GB. And those people that worship the GB may probably need removing too. 
      The world is wicked, it belongs to Satan. The Earth is wonderful and it belongs to Almighty God.
      For God to save this Earth and for Him to save a few humans too, drastic things have to take place. Drastic things have to take place.
       
    • By Albert Michelson
      What is the good news?
       
      The Bible is clear that even if someone had been clearly selected by god if they deviate from the truth they are to be rejected. 
       
      Galatians 1:8-9 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed.  9 As we have said above, I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed.
       
      This holds even more weight for ones like the GB who are not clearly selected and who's claim to authority rests solely on a demonstrably false interpretation of scripture.
      The organization claims that the 1914 teaching is necessary for salvation and even goes as far as to claim that the 1914 teaching is the good news spoken of in the Bible.
      *** w67 12/15 pp. 753-754 pars. 3-4 What Now Distinguishes the Good News to Be Preached ***
      "What a joy-inspiring addition or enlargement to the good news now to be preached! Now has come the victorious kingdom of our God together with the authority of his Christ, his Messiah! As for Satan the Devil and his demons, they have only a short period of time until they are bound and imprisoned in the abyss after the “war of the great day of God the Almighty” at Armageddon. All this additional wonderful information has been true since the end of the “appointed times of the nations” in 1914, and particularly since World War I closed in the year 1918. Not before the “appointed times of the nations” ended in the fall of 1914 could the good news be preached of the newborn, established heavenly kingdom of God and of his Messiah. This, then, must be the good news that Jesus Christ in his prophecy said had to be preached first in all the nations. (Mark 13:10) This generation of human society that has seen and experienced the world events since the Gentile Times closed in 1914—this is the “generation” that will not pass away until all the things foretold have happened, including the preaching of the good news first in all nations.
      4 Jesus’ prophecy in Mark 13:10, “Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first,” has not been undergoing fulfillment during the past nineteen centuries. It is only since the second decade of our twentieth century that this prophecy has been undergoing fulfillment. This began to be realized by the International Bible Students Association and the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society since the end of the second decade of our century. In the magazine issue of July 1, 1920, of The Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence the article was published entitled “Gospel of the Kingdom” and based on the theme text, “‘And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.’—Matthew 24:14.”
       It is for this reason that the organization is chained to the 1914 teaching. As the scripture I quoted above demonstrates the Bible says that one who teaches a good news that is false is cursed. If the organization admits that the 1914 and 1919 teachings are false they will have to admit that not only were they not selected as gods channel but that they have been teaching a false good news for the majority of their existence. It is for that reason that they disfellowship and shun people who cannot conscientiously remain in the faith. It's easier to just eliminate the opposition then to actually address the real issues with your theology. 
      *** w86 4/1 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***
      Why have Jehovah’s Witnesses disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for apostasy some who still profess belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ?
       
      "Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. What do such beliefs include?
       
      That the great issue before humankind is the rightfulness of Jehovah’s sovereignty, which is why he has allowed wickedness so long. (Ezekiel 25:17) That Jesus Christ had a prehuman existence and is subordinate to his heavenly Father. (John 14:28) That there is a “faithful and discreet slave” upon earth today ‘entrusted with all of Jesus’ earthly interests,’ which slave is associated with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (Matthew 24:45-47) That 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens, as well as the time for Christ’s foretold presence. (Luke 21:7-24; Revelation 11:15–12:10) That only 144,000 Christians will receive the heavenly reward. (Revelation 14:1, 3) That Armageddon, referring to the battle of the great day of God the Almighty, is near. (Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:11-21) That it will be followed by Christ’s Millennial Reign, which will restore an earth-wide paradise. That the first to enjoy it will be the present “great crowd” of Jesus’ “other sheep.”—John 10:16; Revelation 7:9-17; 21:3, 4."
       
      This is supposedly a list of the fundamental doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses that all are required to believe. You will in most cases be disfellowshiped for not believing in one or more of them. Unfortunately the truth is most of them are false.
    • By Jack Ryan
      Seems that, so far, only one source mentions JWs....
      Following are Google Translated (into English) links:

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    • By Jack Ryan
      If the love you have for your children is predicated on their beliefs, you don't love your children you love YOUR beliefs
    • By The Librarian
      It was by the order of King Christian 4th. who had declared that the JHWH should be made known. He also had it placed on other buildings throughout Danmark, Sweden and Norway
    • By Jack Ryan
      In previous decades, when someone was disfellowshipped, they were told their time would be 6 months. Now it’s a full year?
      Why did that change from 6 mo to a year? and are they getting more ppl to come back with the increased time? With the less members staying in the org, you would think they want to lower the “jail time “
      Also are there any other religions that gives you months or years of time out, if you commit a sin, even if you actually want to come back?
      Also any former elders here? Why is there a standard set time for everyone? And why can they reject someone’s letter who wants to come back? Don’t they need more members ?
    • By Jack Ryan
      Jehovah's Witness Organization Redefines Shunning to Falsely.mp4
      Every JW visiting this page should MORALLY comment below and publicly state that this JW Lawyer is LYING through his teeth to the Canadian Supreme Court.
      If you don't, YOU participate in this gross sin. Because you ALL KNOW this is a false statement.
      Remember as well that this JW Lawyer is also an Officer of the Court.
      What the courts do not know is that JW's consider outright lying in court a part of "theocratic warfare" just like Muslims do. So it is a virtue to them.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. SMH.
      Can you spell P-E-R-J-U-R-Y?
    • By Jack Ryan
      "Sunday, December 30
      Asa’s heart was complete with Jehovah all his life.—1 Ki. 15:14.
      Each of us can examine his heart to see if it is fully devoted to God. Ask yourself, ‘Am I determined to please Jehovah, to defend true worship, and to protect his people from any corrupting influence?’ For example, what if someone close to you has to be disfellowshipped? Would you take decisive action by ceasing to associate with that person? What would your heart move you to do? Like Asa, you can show that you have a complete heart by fully relying on God when you are faced with opposition, even some that may seem insurmountable. You may be teased or ridiculed at school for taking a stand as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Or colleagues at work may taunt you for taking days off for spiritual activities or for not often working overtime. In such situations, pray to God, just as Asa did. (2 Chron. 14:11) Remain firm for what you know is right and wise. Remember that God strengthened and helped Asa, and He will strengthen you.
      w17.03 3:6-8 "

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    • By Jack Ryan
      This was a case where in June 1987, the United States Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit upheld the Witnesses' right to shun those who fail to live by the group's standards and doctrines, upholding the ruling of a lower court.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Has there been any cases after this, where DF cases went to court? Have there been cases in other countries were DF decisions were challenged and reversed?
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Here in the United States we have Cable TV with such things as "History Channel", "Discovery Channel", "Scifi Channel", and "A&E" the "Arts and Entertainment Channel".  Apparently around November 13 of this year they had a famous (?) TV star, Leah Remini,  who had been a Scientologist since she was eight years old turn Apostate, and she has done at least two TV seasons exposing the ills of the Church of Scientology", do an Expose' of Jehovah's Witnesses.
      I do not watch TV as a rule, and missed it, and I spent a few days looking for it and trying to download a copy.  It was not on YouTube, but I did find it under "Aftermath Jehovah's Witnesses" on the Russian equivalent of YouTube, "Rutube.ru". It would not download with my usual download software, so I had to find a free screen capture software, which took about four hours to get the settings just right, and I was able to download the two hour program from my monitor, as it was playing.
      Therefore, I watched the TV program three times, as I experimented with the settings to get a good screen copy to my hard drive..
      I could see both sides of the program viewpoints presented, and did not find us to be misrepresented in any way whatsoever ... but if there was EVER a clear example of the Law of Unintended Consequences, the horror the Governing Body has caused in disfellowshipping the way that it is currently done ... by ripping families apart, and creating  irreparable damage that can never be corrected with reinstatement, was chilling, and puts us in the same class as Scientologists ... which completely disregarding the horror and hardsip, and cruelty without any mercy whatsoever it creates locally, shames Jehovah's Name and Reputation over the whole planet.
      I don't believe there is anything a local Jehovah's Witness could do ... rob a bank ... have a harem ... have sex with horses ... etc., ad nauseum ... that would besmirch Jehovah's name and reputation globally as much as our current blatantly cruel public policies of destroying whole families for the sins of one person.
      I am very glad to have the education I have to know that the TRUTH is still the truth .... even though the 85% drivel has rotted and fermented into rotten sewage.
      Most JWs do NOT have this educational advantage ... so their lives are permanently destroyed.
      I don't expect much from people, and almost NOTHING from groups of people .... so for me, like getting one of those great salads at the Olive Garden Restaurant, and finding a big chunk of solid sewage in it ... I hold my nose, and eat around it.
      This TV Special is global news .... what could I possibly say to the average person that would clear the Name of God, that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, NOT THE TELEVISION PROGRAM, has corrupted by its Pharisaic policies that have real world consequences?
      The exact same thing happened in ancient Israel, and a system that God blessed and supported for a thousand years and more was abandoned by God.
      The exact same thing.
       
       
       
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      CAN A PERSON ... OR SHOULD A PERSON . BE DISFELLOWSHIPPED IN ABSTENSIA?
      Here is the situation .....  a person REPORTED to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused, and NOT convicted ( ... because he is a fugitive from Justice ...) .....

      Apparently he was at one time in a "Position Of Authority", which possibly alludes to his being an  "Elder", and he may have relocated to another State or even another Country. Possibly using an alias.
      The  various Congregation Elders cannot find him, the Society cannot find him, and the U.S. Marshal's Service cannot find him.
      Not having any indication to the contrary ... at least from the information given in the pseudo-Wanted Poster shown above, he is possibly still officially one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
      Whether he is or not, his bad example raises an interesting  aspect of trying to figure out how the disfellowshipping "system" protocol actually works.
      Can any of the Congregations  he went to disfellowship him without his being present  to answer charges ?
      ... and SHOULD he be?
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      Massive article in print tomorrow, a follow up from the excellent "The Elder"-article printed earlier, that was made available for us in English version here.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Tomorrow there's a huge follow-up, I will not share the full article now, due to respect of the amazing work that is done by the journalists, but I'm sure we will find a solution if you have som patience. Meanwhile there is a possibility to create an account and read the article in Norwegian here:

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. I have made a translation of the headline and the intro:
    • By Jack Ryan
      An article featured on the front page of the newspaper Stavanger Aftenblad (Norway) with the article in the 'magazine' section. Stavanger Aftenblad is a popular daily newspaper based in Stavanger, south-west Norway.

    • By Jack Ryan
      The pictures above is today's printed edition of the Norwegian newspaper Fædrelandsvennen. They have published the result of two years journalism where they have been digging deeply into the issues of PIMO life, the struggle to break free, and the consequences for mental health.
      Today they printed the first of seven articles as a result of this work, the story of "Fredrik" who is a fader, a story a lot of you will relate to. The next six articles will be in print the following days to come.
      All seven articles are now published online for subscribers. I will eventually provide translations of all articles into English here on this sub, but for now they have to stay this way. I would really appreciate if some of you would subscribe and read the articles through Google Translate. It will give you a better story, a complete layout with all the pictures and references. You can subscribe for only 1 NOK the first month, that is just a dime, 1/8 of a dollar. Just remember to unsubscribe after you register, so it doesn't keep running, you still keep your first month. If you need help subscribing, please feel free to dm me.
      This is the seven articles:

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. 1- The story of "Fredrik" a fader who is struggling to find his way and keep his children away from the Cult. Also talks about the mental breakdown he had while waking up.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. 2. A psychiatrist speaking about the mental damages done to all of us because of the way JWs raise their children based on the threat of shunning. She speaks out about the impact this has on children and the way the brain works when it is pushed on this. She is "Fredrik's" healthcare professional and have followed his journey the last three years.
       

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. 3. "Rita" , a df'd woman, telling about her story, being df'd at 19, then reinstated just to be with his family even though everyone knew she didn't believe. Tells the story about how her elder dad fixed the reinstatement.
       

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. 4. "Geir", he left as a youth before he got baptized, so he is not completely shunned. Tells the story on how this has affected his life, being an outcast from the rest of his family.
       

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. 5. A childcare professional speaking out after reading the other stories. Says she is shocked and says that this needs more attention from professionals. Promises to take this up the system.
       

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. 6. A massacre of the Shepherd-book. A PhD in Theology walks through it in detail and comments on the way they micromanage the life of JW's.
       

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. 7. The afterlife, an article about people who help those who have left.
      And for those who have bothered to read this post this far...."Fredrik", the dude on the front page, is me...
    • By Jack Ryan
      Det er livesending nummer 2 i Idol 2018 og 10 deltakere skal bli 9. Kveldens tema er «Dette er meg» og vi skal bli ordentlig godt kjent med finalistene vÃ¥re.
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      DO  WE STILL  DISFELLOWSHIP  THE  MENTALLY  ILL ?
      I was a teenager in the 60's,  and I had a good friend that on Scout camping trips I introduced to the Truth, and I was there in NYC at Yankee Stadium when he was baptized as one of Jehovah's Witness. He was a true "straight arrow", and pioneered, always dressed immaculately, and eventually over the years became an Elder.
      One night, at an Elder's Meeting, he announced to the other Elders that he was Jesus Christ, and that his mother was the virgin Mary, and of course he was disfellowshipped.
      He spent several years in private mental institutions until his insurance money ran out, then in a State institution for several years.
      He called me up, and told me the story, and I told him I was the Great Turtleman, and every November, before I hibernated, I rose from the swamp and gave toys to all the good little boys and girls.  I was just pulling his leg, but he was dead serious.
      Later, he was in England, while his wife was trying without success to get him to take his medications, and fell over a balcony at Heathrow Airport and got killed.
      DO  WE STILL  DISFELLOWSHIP  THE  MENTALLY  ILL ?
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      from 2016 the year that they started the return to Jehovah brochure.
    • By Jack Ryan
      a heartbreaking video has emerged online showing how far reaching and deeply ingrained this shunning policy is; a video showing JehovahÂ’s Witnesses clapping in applause as a little girl announces she is shunning her own sister.
      Little Melody, and the sister she doesnÂ’t have.
      The incident appears to take place at one of this years Watchtower conventions. The video was posted on youtube by the girls parents, apprently eager to share with the world how they had trained one of their children to pretend her sister didnÂ’t exist purely on the basis of religious dogma.
      The video was comment-protected once viewers began expressing concern and displeasure at what they saw, but at the time of writing the video itself is still live and can be viewed below on the family’s youtube page. (EDIT 11/09/2017 – The video has been removed, but we have linked to an alternate site which has a copy)

      t shows a little girl called Melody. She is ten years old, and was apparently baptised when she was 9. This means that Melody is now committed to the religion for life, and will be shunned if she ever leaves, or “unrepentantly” breaks any of its vast array of detailed rules.
      During the interview, Melody explains that she has a sister who was “disfellowshipped,” which is the Witness term for one who is excommunicated; someone who was thrown out of the faith rather than leaving of their own accord. We are not told the reason for the disfellowshipping, but one can be subjected to it for a wide range of reasons such as pre-marital sex, celebrating Christmas or birthdays, voting, taking a blood transfusion, joining the military, or simply questioning any of the doctrines of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
      Melody states that her sister was trying to contact her, and asking her to stay in contact despite Watchtower decreeing that she be shunned. Remember, MelodyÂ’s sister has probably lost all her family and friends at this point; everyone she ever knew and loved.
      Melody admits that she misses and loves her sister, but states that she was afraid that if she didnÂ’t cut her sister off completely, she might be tempted to keep some form of relationship going. Thus, she has decided to shun her completely, as Watchtower demands. She claims that this was to protect her relationship with Jehovah.
      The audience of JehovahÂ’s Witnesses watching this announcement applaud.

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    • By Jack Ryan
      This comes from the final talk at the Birmingham, AL Convention. Herd talks kind of low and there is some background noise, so here is a transcript starting at about 1:25.
      I thought this was interesting because it doesn't appear to be in the talk outline. Admittedly, I just skimmed through the outline quickly, so it might be in there. Either way, there is something twisted about comparing the shunning of children to casting out demons from heaven.
      Edit: For those wondering, this talk is from August 5. The part before when the transcript starts is Herd talking about King Asa removing his grandmother from her position.
    • By Jack Ryan
      An article in Aftenposten, Norway's largest printed newspaper by circulation.
      18,000 join together at Norway's biggest Bible convention
      Tens of thousands gathered at the Bible meeting in the Telenor Arena




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