Jump to content

Jack Ryan

The French Speaking Baptist Church of Stratford is now located in the former Jehovah's Witnesses Kingdom Hall at 494 Milford Point Road.

Topic Summary

Created

Last Reply

Replies

Views

Jack Ryan -
Witness -
137
2398

Top Posters


Recommended Posts

17 hours ago, Ray Devereaux said:

No one can be held responsible for the action of another.

This go to sphere of hierarchy.

Parents are responsible to their minor children. Boss is responsible for his employee. Commander is responsible for his soldier. Church /leaders) is responsible for believers. 

Why? Because instructions, lessons, direction for acting, guiding etc. coming from those people who are in power and making influence on lower levels of group. In that sense GB carrying responsibility and have to bear effect/ outcome of decisions they have put on members as obligation that they must do or not to do.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 9/9/2019 at 6:51 PM, Ray Devereaux said:

Banned.jpg

I don't believe this can ever happen. I would recommend witnesses pass the word around to stay off this site.

This club is open to anyone. If you want to join a JW only club here it is:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

This go to sphere of hierarchy.

Parents are responsible to their minor children. Boss is responsible for his employee. Commander is responsible for his soldier. Church /leaders) is responsible for believers. 

Why? Because instructions, lessons, direction for acting, guiding etc. coming from those people who are in power and making influence on lower levels of group. In that sense GB carrying responsibility and have to bear effect/ outcome of decisions they have put on members as obligation that they must do or not to do.  

 

It's a little bit more complex than that. Yes, parent's are definitely responsible for their minor children, even when their minor children are out of  sight, the responsibility for what the children do is still the parents, because the parents should be watching them.  However, is an employer responsible for what his employee does outside his employment? If the employee does something bad while on vacation (robs a bank) would his employer bear responsibility? Obviously not. Now if the employer planned the robbery with the employee, and got the employee to carry it out, then the employer will hold some liability. But it is still the employees choice, whether to go along with the plan or not. I don't think the claim "he made me do it" would hold up in court.

It always seems to me that when people try to hold the GB responsible for their choices in life, its like they forget that no one actually MADE them do anything. That it was the persons personal conviction, that whatever the direction the GB gave was correct, and therefor they followed it. We have to make the choice whether to follow it or not. Now if the direction proved wrong, then sure, we can blame the GB for the bad outcome, but it was STILL our choice and we have to get up and move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/10/2019 at 9:58 PM, Witness said:

The building of kingdom halls is looked upon as bringing “honor to Jehovah”, and it is not by coincidence that the Warwick Bethel has as its address, 1 Kings Drive. (1 Kings 8:13)  Buildings mean something  sacred to JWs.  I have watched a JW video of an assembly hall compared to the early temple,and how it must be treated with care as the early temple was.    They have great value as a place of consecrated worship.  Does it bring “honor to Jehovah” when these dedicated buildings are put up for sale?   If you say this thought would not be applicable at such a time, then how would anyone know that building a kingdom hall to begin with, brought "honor to Jehovah"?  How is it, one knows that God receives honor at the completion of  building a kh, but not privy to what He thinks when the 'for sale' sign is posted?

It is the hypocrisy, that is in play.  Hypocrisy and the idolatry of placing spiritual value in the work of man's hands.  Ps 135:15  

Something is only as good as what it is on the inside.  Any structure has value to the Witnesses when it is used for pure worship. I know an old church that was converted to a KH. So it's not about the building, but about what goes on on the inside. Once a building stops being used for the purpose it was built for and is put on the market, it becomes immaterial to the JWs what or who occupies it after that. This proves there is no idolatry or placing of spiritual value on the building itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Anna said:

Something is only as good as what it is on the inside.  Any structure has value to the Witnesses when it is used for pure worship. I know an old church that was converted to a KH. So it's not about the building, but about what goes on on the inside. Once a building stops being used for the purpose it was built for and is put on the market, it becomes immaterial to the JWs what or who occupies it after that. This proves there is no idolatry or placing of spiritual value on the building itself.

A very 'practical' viewpoint.  As a young Catholic, I would set up a shrine to  the "Virgin Mary" in my bedroom for the month of May.  I didn't think much of the statue until I dressed up the temporary shrine with bouquets of flowers and anything else I could think of that would make it appealing.  I prayed to Mary in front of that statue...just for the one month.  The rest of the year, Mary was put on the book shelf and left there.  There is no doubt in my mind that any JW would believe I was committing idolatry, which I was.

Definition of “shrine”:

shrine is a place of worship which is associated with a particular holy person or object.

Shrine comes from the Latin scrinium meaning "case or box for keeping papers." Think of a shrine as a niche or case in which the spirit of someone special is kept. It could be a statue or some other form of commemoration to either a person or a relic. A shrine can be as small as a tiny mantel in your house or it can be as massive as a building commemorating, or shrining, a sacred person. (vocabulary.com)

 

Armenian Branch Dedication Video

David Splane:

“Is it your desire to dedicate the Branch facility, the assembly hall and the school facility to Jehovah today?”  (met with applause)

You say this isn’t idolatry?

wp16 No. 2 p. 10:

“Originally the word “shrine” represented a case that held sacred relics. The meaning has since broadened; it now refers to a place considered sacred, religiously or otherwise. Religious shrines are dedicated to the worship of a deity or the veneration of a “holy” person.

“Many of the world’s major religions have shrines, and countless millions of people visit them. In professed Christian lands, there are numerous churches and shrines dedicated to Jesus, Mary, and the saints.”

Is it not a shrine if it is dedicated to “Jehovah”?  Is it not a shrine if it is called a kingdom hall or assembly hall?

“How, then, should Christians view pilgrimages to and worship at shrines? (video - “The dedication week started off with a welcome night, where many traveled long distances to attend.  And some had not seen each other for a long time”)

Taking into account Jesus’ command that true worshippers worship God with spirit and truth, it is clear that worship rendered at any shrine or sacred place has no special value to our heavenly Father. Additionally, the Bible tells us how God views the veneration of idols in worship. It says: “Flee from idolatry” and “guard yourselves from idols.” (1 Corinthians 10:14; 1 John 5:21) Therefore, a true Christian would not worship at any place that is viewed as holy in itself or one that encourages idolatry. Thus, on account of the very nature of shrines, true Christians refrain from worshipping at them.”

Every time a building is ‘dedicated to Jehovah’; and its finished product is spoken as bringing honor to "Jehovah”, idolatry is encouraged; even if at a later point in time, the building is sold.  This building and discarding of dedicated kingdom halls, assembly halls, and Bethels, reminds me of Isa 44:9-20  Yet, it is not a new idea with the organization, since it also is “worshiped”. Rev 13:4,8  To verify this, JW believe salvation is not possible without it.  We worship God who is our salvation.  Christ also deserves our worship, since “there is no other name under heaven” by which we must be saved.  Acts 4:12; Rev 5:13,14

 But an organization as man’s salvation?  Built in Satan’s realm?   Any bit of truth, such as stated above in the article, is not put into practice by your leaders. (like child abuse)

2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."  Matt 23:2,3

 

All who make idols are nothing,
    and the things they treasure are worthless.
Those who would speak up for them are blind;
    they are ignorant, to their own shame.
10 Who shapes a god and casts an idol,
    which can profit nothing?
11 People who do that will be put to shame;
    such craftsmen are only human beings.
Let them all come together and take their stand;
    they will be brought down to terror and shame.

12 The blacksmith takes a tool
    and works with it in the coals;
he shapes an idol with hammers,
    he forges it with the might of his arm.
He gets hungry and loses his strength;
    he drinks no water and grows faint.
13 The carpenter measures with a line
    and makes an outline with a marker;
he roughs it out with chisels
    and marks it with compasses.
He shapes it in human form,
    human form in all its glory,
    that it may dwell in a shrine.
14 He cut down cedars,
    or perhaps took a cypress or oak.
He let it grow among the trees of the forest,
    or planted a pine, and the rain made it grow.
15 It is used as fuel for burning;
    some of it he takes and warms himself,
    he kindles a fire and bakes bread.
But he also fashions a god and worships it;
    he makes an idol and bows down to it.
16 Half of the wood he burns in the fire;
    over it he prepares his meal,
    he roasts his meat and eats his fill.
He also warms himself and says,
    “Ah! I am warm; I see the fire.”
17 From the rest he makes a god, his idol;
    he bows down to it and worships.
He prays to it and says,
    “Save me! You are my god!”
18 They know nothing, they understand nothing;
    their eyes are plastered over so they cannot see,
    and their minds closed so they cannot understand.
19 No one stops to think,
    no one has the knowledge or understanding to say,
“Half of it I used for fuel;
    I even baked bread over its coals,
    I roasted meat and I ate.
Shall I make a detestable thing from what is left?
    Shall I bow down to a block of wood?”
20 Such a person feeds on ashes; a deluded heart misleads him;
    he cannot save himself, or say,
    “Is not this thing in my right hand a lie?”

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Anna said:

Now if the direction proved wrong, then sure, we can blame the GB for the bad outcome, but it was STILL our choice and we have to get up and move on.

 

8 hours ago, Anna said:

It's a little bit more complex than that.

Yes Anna, it is always little bit more complex than we can say at a moment :))

If JW members dare to blame GB for wrong directions, they doing that in own head and thoughts perhaps shared with one or two trustful JW friends, not in comment at meetings.

On other hand, we all can testimony how GB not wish to take any blame for wrong instructions, but to spread "responsibility" on all who, supposedly, act in too much zeal for worship or how they misunderstand  some article and public talk. :)) 

It is complex, for sure. One of reason for that is Sort of Culture developed in Society/Organization (not unique problem in WT only but in other organizations too) how Higher Hierarchical Class is less "guilty" because God "appointed" them on/to position of lead and guide. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Anna said:

It always seems to me that when people try to hold the GB responsible for their choices in life, its like they forget that no one actually MADE them do anything. That it was the persons personal conviction, that whatever the direction the GB gave was correct, and therefor they followed it. We have to make the choice whether to follow it or not. Now if the direction proved wrong, then sure, we can blame the GB for the bad outcome, but it was STILL our choice and we have to get up and move on.

It if was just that easy.  Experience by those who do so, will say that no one gets up and moves on without being shunned or disfellowshipped for doing so.  So, although no one actually made an individual do anything, it is stipulated that any who are independent of GB direction, are "apostate"; especially if it is expressed verbally.  

But you know these things already.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

we all can testimony how GB not wish to take any blame for wrong instructions, but to spread "responsibility" on all who, supposedly, act in too much zeal for worship or how they misunderstand  some article and public talk. :)) 

Yes, it does appear like that sometimes. Perhaps though it really IS due to misunderstanding 😀. It can happen so easily, especially with the written word. This is why it's always better to call someone, rather than text 🙂.

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

One of reason for that is Sort of Culture developed in Society/Organization (not unique problem in WT only but in other organizations too) how Higher Hierarchical Class is less "guilty" because God "appointed" them on/to position of lead and guide. 

But if you know the Bible, then you believe the opposite: "Then that slave who understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do what he asked will be beaten with many strokes. But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him"   (Luke 12: 47-48) (This scripture is actually talking about the Faithful and discreet slave/GB).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Witness said:

 Experience by those who do so, will say that no one gets up and moves on without being shunned or disfellowshipped for doing so.  

That's because they DON'T just get up and move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Anna said:

That's because they DON'T just get up and move on.

In other words, you recognize that speaking up against the GB’s mistakes can cause one to be shunned; however, no one can walk away, not even quietly without being shunned.  I can count four individuals close by, who are not disfellowshipped but are treated as such, just for walking away.    You also know these things.

A true Christian who follows the path of Christ, would speak up for truth and expose error, right?  Isn’t that the emphasis the organization takes when it comes to “christendom”?  Why should upholding truth  stop just because eight uninspired men say they represent Christ?  

Matt 24:24  Even the anointed/"elect" are stumbled by the end time, "false christs".  John 16:2; Rev 13:11,15  

Christ was not a coward; following in his footsteps requires speaking out for his truth., not swallowing lies or just walking away.   Matt 5:10,11

Eph 6:12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      A collage of photos of Liza Jade Parker and her children were displayed during a graveside service Saturday afternoon celebration her life. Parker died last week when her car crashed into a heavily wooded median along the northbound lanes of Interstate 95 in Old Town.
       
      An estimated 250 people gathered Saturday afternoon in a small cemetery in Wytopitlock to celebrate the young mother whose life was abruptly cut short last week in a crash off Interstate 95 in Old Town.
      Liza Jade Parker, 26, died after her car crashed Sept. 24 into a heavily wooded median strip along the northbound lanes of Interstate 95 in Old Town. Her two small children, 5-year-old Mason Worcester and 1½-year-old Tiaona Robinson, were secured in car seats and suffered minor injuries.
      Parker’s car was not found until the following day, when it was spotted by a passing tractor-trailer driver, according to police.
      Saturday’s graveside service took place on a sunny, cool, crisp autumn day at Evergreen Cemetery, where her great-grandparents, Dale and Wilma Dow, are buried.
      Set up near the Dows’ grave was a display of photos of Parker and her children, a framed poem, pink flowers and candles and some mementos from her childhood, including the tiny pink dress she wore home from the hospital shortly after she was born.
      “I wouldn’t have it any other place and neither would Liza,” her brother, Rory Parker of West Palm Beach, Florida, said before the service began.
      Parker’s grandmother, Marilyn Dow, said she and her husband, Rodger, were devastated by the untimely death because out of all of their 12 grandchildren, she was the only granddaughter.
      “Liza was his diamond. That’s what he called her. It’s terrible at home, terrible. You can’t expect anything different,” Dow said.
      “We would feel the same if we lost any of our family members, any of our other grandchildren but the difficult part is that she was the only granddaughter,” Dow said. “ She was Puppa’s girl. They had a wonderful relationship.”
      Dow said she, Liza’s mother Shauna Dow and several other family members were drawing strength from the Jehovah’s Witness community to which they belong.
      On hand were family, friends and many of the people who were part of the support network that helped her beat an addiction to heroin more than a year ago.
      Parker’s success on that front captured the attention of Gov. Paul LePage, who held her up as a role model during a visit from former U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price and senior presidential adviser Kellyanne Conway.
      During the service, Brother Rory Merrill from the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Bangor shared memories about the young mother that family and friends told to him.
      Common themes from those who knew her included her devotion to her children, her smile and the twinkle in her eye and the strength and courage she showed during her battle with addiction.
      Rory Parker had this to say:
      “Liza did not suffer. She left this world in the best possible version of herself and her life. She was amazing. I miss my sister. I love my sister and always will.”
      Parker was reported missing after she did not show up in Howland for a meeting with her son’s father in Howland scheduled for Sept. 24.
      It’s still not clear what caused the crash, which remains under investigation by Maine State Police.
      “It was just an accident. She drifted off the road,” her brother Rory said. “She died instantly. She did not suffer.”
      Parker died from head and neck injuries she suffered in the crash, according to autopsy results released Wednesday by Mark Belserene, spokesman for the state medical examiner’s office. Belserene also said the manner of her death was ruled accidental.
      https://bangordailynews.com/2017/10/02/news/bangor/hundreds-gather-to-mourn-young-bangor-mother-who-died-in-i-95-crash/
    • By The Librarian
      3 Day KH I worked on back in the 1980's...Waterbury, Connecticut.
    • By The Librarian
      3 days because there were 3 KH auditoriums in one.....A LOT of work
  • Forum Statistics

    62,035
    Total Topics
    116,651
    Total Posts
  • Member Statistics

    16,534
    Total Members
    1,592
    Most Online
    Marek Markus
    Newest Member
    Marek Markus
    Joined




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.