JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

[Allen_Smith]

37 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Sigh....I don’t follow @JW Insider. If I was going to follow anyone, it would be @Arauna—I like her insights even better—but I don’t follow her either. Stop it, Allen, just stop it.  If I was going to use the same tactics as you or of those of your group, I would begin referring to her as your girlfriend, since you have liked her posts and she has commended some informational ones of yours. Enough!

Follow, admire, and elevate, whatever terminology works for you. That’s why I follow “only” God. If I followed a human and their idea of interpretation of scripture. I wouldn’t call myself Christian. No one should. This is why, I'm confident above all other religions, The Watchtower holds the truth. I am proud to be part of the Org.

If you follow Aruana, that’s up to you, but some people call that stocking. Please don’t compare me with what JWinsider and Anna are doing, it’s beneath your dignity, and insulting to Aruana.

But to a certain extent, you are correct, many in my group do show how fake the news is here, regardless if they get deleted in the end. Somehow, fighting a good fight for God is above anything, here. 1 Timothy 6:12

Since we are no longer friends, then I will add you to the list. I do consider myself a typical soldier of God. Always have been and always will.

[Srecko Sostar]

12 hours ago, Arauna said:

I am listening to those who come from China... and Russia (Russians come to assemblies in Georgia), Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan etc..... people with feet on the ground....

This people .... with feet on the ground ..... are they JW members or belong to some other "ideology"?

After i have read your respond and @TrueTomHarley respond about my comment, and how you two agree with me on "control issue", I have to ask you: Does your feet on the ground?

14 hours ago, Arauna said:

to want control other humans is morally wrong.....When a human wants to control anything about another human - he is showing satanic qualities....In future in paradise, all people will willingly subject themselves to Jehovah and his standards in free will.  They will never try to tell another person  what to do because all will be totally free and equal under God.. ...Total freedom and equality under God - this is the goal.... In future in paradise, all people will willingly subject themselves to Jehovah and his standards in free will.  They will never try to tell another person  what to do because all will be totally free and equal under God.

 How is possible that you don't see how you willingly subject yourself under men control, all that under idea how that is God's will? You condemn "control" as morally wrong and as satanic qualities but in the same time you are ready to say how "JW opposers" are wrong and not worth to listen?! One of main reason why "JW opposers" are opposing human influence and power inside WT Society is exactly what you expect from Future under Kingdom. To have  Total freedom and equality under God - this is the goal. 

Why do you want/wish total freedom and equality? Because you haven't it now under WT Society governing. Spiritual Paradise inside WT Society Organization about what JW members are proud about, according to what you have said, is not satisfied your expectations and need. 

Main issue is not about how this "world" and US, China and others suppressing our freedom, but problem is deeper. It is inside Organization/Religion you put your hope and trust and they disappointed you all, and you, in fact unconsciously, putting accent on that issue while speaking about outside world, external general problem between people and nations. 

In fact, absolutely same problem you have inside JW Organization. When will you come to be aware of it?  

[JW Insider]

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

For whatever it is worth, I find very enlightening your exchange with JWI on this topic. I gain much from both of your views. 

I'd love to respond to each of your questions, although I'm a bit uncomfortable with the idea that this comes off as a serious disagreement between Arauna and myself. She happens to be the one who makes the strongest statements against a position that I have now come to see as more correct than the position I held just a few years ago when I would have whole-heartedlly agreed with her.

I don't mean to position my own beliefs as the antithesis of Aruana's either, because I agree with her on the most fundamental principles behind her own reasons for accepting the beliefs she accepts. For example, it's obvious that all nations work in their own self-interests and any semblance of government working for the greatest benefit of the majority is not going to be found working in this world. The whole world lies in the power of the wicked one.

What I have found most interesting is that --and this is about me and my opinion-- when we widen our viewpoints and focus on the contradictions and hypocrisies as a starting point, we often find that there is a world of evidence and information that we would have formerly rejected, not because it wasn't good evidence, but because it didn't fit into our worldview.

I'm interested in the power of propaganda, and all of us should be if we are really interested in "the truth" on any matter. But pitting my evidence against someone else's just makes the other person believe they are being called naive or perhaps even unintelligent, for example. And being the recipient of the snide side of the "lol" makes me feel badly for the person offering it, because it usually means they are taking it personally.

So, I'd like to make clear, as most people already know, that I'm stating my beliefs about world events and world situations, not as an attack on anyone's view. I already know that most of these views are accepted by only a small percentage of people in the "West." And I have no problem with persons accepting views opposing my own. I expect this. This is no reflection on intelligence, willingness to learn. It's not about naivety. 

Also, there are a lot things I already accept as true from the "opposing" side of each argument. My own goal has been to try to accept ideas that fit evidence I have seen, and explain evidence that wouldn't make much sense, otherwise. But there are always ways to fit ANY evidence into a view if one is creative enough. If Stalin was pure evil, for example, then the reason there is no evidence for all the evil things we want to believe about him, is because he was SO EVIL that he killed everyone and everything that could have shown evidence against him. Same would go for Falun Gong organ harvesting. No evidence means that all the Chinese people in government are so evil that they allow no truth of any kind to get out even if it means killing or torturing all who would try. Then it's also easy for us to believe all other evil things we hear that fit the image we've been given. And this makes it easier for propagandists to foist new tales upon us to believe. It takes very little time to sweep up a third of the world to begin believing things that are either not true, or have no real evidence. 

We also live in a time when wrongs are magnified for political and ideological purposes. Let's say a group kills or rapes or tortures 40 people. It's a terrible and disgusting thing! But if it's an ideological enemy of the West, we are bound to see someone post somewhere that it was 400 people. Which number is more likely to be reported, the 40 or 400? Probably the first reports will be "anywhere from 40 to 400." At this point fake news enthusiasts such as governments and government agencies and crazy ideologists will step in and start manufacturing evidence for 4,000 then 40,000. The limits of belief are tested, but if it fits an existing view in the West, for example, it's not going to be difficult. 

At the same time I expect that the non-West is probably doing something similar in creating exaggerated views of the evil in the West.  

And the areas where this is done best are well chosen. Several people actually have died in large demonstration/protests in Ecuador, Haiti, etc. But, in Hong Kong, where no one has died from the demonstrations yet (even though there have been about 3 fake funerals, so far) the West gives many hours of attention, yet close to nothing on Ecuador and Haiti. The violence in a place can be mostly instigated from the right, in Venezuela, for example, and yet the Western media will be expected to focus on violence on the part of the left. Then there are areas where even the news outlets are confused about which side to favor because of competing ideologies. (Turkey, Kurds, Anti-Assad ISIS forces, etc.)

[TrueTomHarley]

56 minutes ago, Allen_Smith said:

If you follow Aruana, that’s up to you, but some people call that stocking.

Not that I know of.

Besides, I don’t follow her. I said so.

56 minutes ago, Allen_Smith said:

Since we are no longer friends,

It’s news to me.

3 hours ago, Allen_Smith said:

My dear friend TTH. As far as I can tell no one here is a true JW,

I haven’t changed that much in two hours.

[Matthew9969]

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 1:04 PM, divergenceKO said:

Are you telling God what to do? WOW! Setting yourself above God. I haven’t seen such a blasphemous comment. You just condemned your mortal soul, by sinning against God's Holy Spirit. Not to mention God's sovereignty.  I hope it was worth it to you. You can try to apologize, but that kind of sin is unforgivable.

 

Hey bub, it's your governing body who keeps on changing the spiritual food they dish out, which is supposedly from Jehovah, it's your governing body who are telling Jehovah what to say, and you are worshipping them, that's all on you.

[Vic Vomidog]

Everything about Jehovah’s Witnesses is “privilege this” and “privilege that.” None of it is true. I am here to tell you that it is all slave labor, and furthermore

[TrueTomHarley]

4 minutes ago, Vic Vomidog said:

Everything about Jehovah’s Witnesses is “privilege this” and “privilege that.” None of it is true. I am here to tell you that it is all slave labor, and furthermore

HEY! I THOUGHT I BANNED YOU!!!

Now you listen to me and you listen good, my fine mangy feathered “friend.” If you don’t stay banned once I ban you, I will wrap you around the end of a mop and swab the WorldNewsMedia studio floors with you!

[Witness]

@TrueTomHarley stated:  "There are no “typical” Witnesses here, in my view, except for a few that occasionally stray here, sometimes naively offer comments, thinking persons will be readjusted, and then leave shocked when they discover that no way will it happen. On a few occasions, I have chased them away—it is fine for them to stay here if they wish, but they should know the score before they do. They should not think that Witness, for example,  is some misguided sister that they can help with but a kind word or two."

Yes Tom, I have more power to mislead a JW than 8 men put together.  Incredible, isn’t it?    Although with wolves, there is power in numbers.  One thing about spiritual wolves among sheep, is that they rub shoulders with them, and gain their confidence.  They speak soothing words with poison on their lips.  Ps 140:3

Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. ¹⁶ By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? ¹⁷ Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. ¹⁸ A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. ¹⁹ Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ²⁰ Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.  Matt 7:15-20

Clear evidence that you reside among wolves is WT's failed, distorted, changed doctrine.  CLEAR EVIDENCE, ACCORDING TO CHRIST.  YET, IGNORED BY THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO REMAIN BLIND TO THE EVIDENCE.   2 Cor 4:1-4

Even the seemingly innocent ones led by wolves, can mislead a sheep through prophetic speculation; while also misleading oneself with one’s own, provocative lie. 

21 hours ago, Arauna said:

By the way, I watch China and Russia (allies) as fulfillment of the prophecies in Daniel 11 :40 onward. 

Perhaps you can explain how the focus of Daniel 11 switches from the trampling of the anointed "saints", over to the conquering of the entire world.  Is God's Temple found in a government of the world?  Is it found in a religion of the world?

It is found in the hearts of the anointed ones, who are found in the organization.  They are the target of Satan in the last days.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22   Rev 20:7-9

“Then the king will do whatever he wants. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god, (John 10:34-36) and he will say outrageous things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, because what has been decreed will be accomplished.”  Dan 11:36,37

 ^“It acted arrogantly even against the Prince of the heavenly army;(Rev 1:5) it revoked his regular sacrifice and overthrew the place of his sanctuary.”  Dan 8:11

"His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the regular sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation.”  Dan 11:31

“His power will be great,
but it will not be his own power.  (Rev 13:14,15; 19:20)
He will cause outrageous destruction
and succeed in whatever he does.
He will destroy the powerful
along with the holy people.”  Dan 8:24

 ^“He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s temple, proclaiming that he himself is God.”  2 Thess 2:4

"Then I was given a measuring reed like a rod, with these words: “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count those who worship there. ² But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Don’t measure it, because it is given to the Gentiles, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months."  Rev 11:1,2

"Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. 

Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders! Their record of faithful service, often over many decades, inspires our trust. "  W 02/8/1

This is doctrine of men, that contradicts God's decrees  found in the Bible. 2 Chron 13:9; 23:6,7; Num 18:7; Dan 9:27 (edited)    If JWs say they love the scriptures, and love God,  then I would hope they would research what is happening in their own corrupt organization, that calls itself "spirit-directed".  Rev 13:15  Otherwise, to ignore God's decrees  concerning HIS priesthood, is utter hypocrisy.  

The “man of lawlessness”/elder body conquers the priesthood by ruling over it; and halting, dissolving their priestly sacrifices of praise from their own lips; and instead, expecting them to regurgitate "fruit" that comes from a "bad tree"/wicked slave.  Matt 24:48-51 (edited)

The GB are not a conglomerate High Priest that directs the priesthood.  That only, is Christ.  Heb 5:5,6,9,10   

The word for "bad" in Matt 7:15-20 above, means "corrupt" "unfit for use", "worthless".  So, why do JWs continue in giving allegiance to 8 men who cannot produce "good" ("good constitution", "upright")  fruit, since the evidence in scripture shows that bad fruit (spoiled, discarded teachings) does not grow on a "good tree"?

We are, what we eat.  

 

 

 

"Iron and Clay"  4womaninthewilderness blogspot, Pearl Doxsey

 

 

 

[Anna]

22 hours ago, divergenceKO said:

Take it however you want, and accept it, Duh! I won't try to justify it that way.

I just happen to have more "respect" for God than just seeing it as sarcasm.

He's being sarcastic about Jehovah's Witnesses, not about God. 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

I have more power to mislead a JW than 8 men put together.  

If you don’t stop it with this self-aggrandizing twaddle, I am going to ban you.

Have you learned nothing from Allen Smith? Many times he has grumbled (with some bitterness) about how I have banned various ones of his group. Vic Vomidog, that perennial apostate,  also went down.

What makes you think that you are above my law?

[Anna]

I wish I could comment on Arauna's and JWI's political banter, but I am ashamed to say I don't know enough about China etc. to make any kind of valid contribution. What I do know is that it is SO difficult to get to the real truth. Unless you have lived it, and experienced it, you can't really be sure about the news, as most of it is propaganda anyway. And you really can't trust the Internet to provide the truth either. Just as a silly example; I was researching "ragweed", which is a plant responsible for allergies at this time of the year in many US states. I like to pick wildflowers and I brought home a plant with yellow flowers, which I know well, called goldenrod. My mother in law insisted it was ragweed. I knew goldenrod was not allergenic as it is a popular back of the (flower) border plant in England. So I Googled ragweed and half the pictures that came up were goldenrod! Of course goldenrod is not ragweed, not even close, but it shows that if the Internet can get something so simple wrong, then how much more precarious is the truth about very complex political and social matters, and also historical truth about people that are long dead. So personally I would not jump on the bandwagon of "popular" views. Not that it matters what I think anyway, but I'm just saying in order to really be fair, unless we are actual witnesses of a situation, it should be OK to  admit that we just can't be sure. I don't know if this makes sense 😂

[Witness]

54 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If you don’t stop it with this self-aggrandizing twaddle, I am going to ban you.

After all that we've been through,  and you're just now thinking about it?