JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

[JW Insider]

29 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Give them permanent “W”s

Ah! Now I know where that "NI" came from in your Scrabble game. It was for "Needs Improvement"!

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, Melinda Mills said:

I would say it another way: False religion is a snare and a racket.   Not hard to correct. 

That's true, but it would not attract as much attention. Rutherford had been a political marketer before following Russell/WT/Bible Students. This is why he would ADV/ADV/ADV. And why gimmicks like putting David and Abraham on a property deed were important to him. This is why he used the title "Judge."

But I think it was Covington who figured out that he could do much better in the courts if we agreed to be recognized as a religion. Religious rights were easier to fight for than unspecified rights or civil rights of a group who would otherwise be seen only as "peddlers." Tresspassing laws were decidedly against peddlers, but the United States was being recognized in the twentieth century as much more amenable to a variety of religions, and we weren't the only religion asking for (and getting) expanded rights.

[TrueTomHarley]

14 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Ah! Now I know where that "NI" came from in your Scrabble game. It was for "Needs Improvement"!

Grumble, grumble. Do you think I can get my Scrabble-cheating brother to take even the slightest interest in spiritual things? But when it serves his purpose, suddenly he becomes a Fred Franz.

[Anna]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

5 hours ago, Anna said:

This got me to wondering whether her "attack" on religion (besides Orthodox) was actually personal, and whether her attack on evangelism specifically, was even more personal

No. Unless she is very very subtle. The main thrust of the laws do not even specifically target religion, though she may be no friend of it. Others have point it that way.

It doesn't have to be the main thrust does it?

You have probably researched this subject a lot more than I have in view of your book about it . I do know that the main thrust of the law is counter-terrorism, however, it appears that certain amendments to it definitely target evangelism, in other words "restrictions on sharing beliefs, including where and who may share them" and "the amendments to the Religion Law restrict those who can share beliefs to people with permission from members of state-registered religious groups and organisations" and "the amendments also restrict the beliefs that can be shared, specifies a restricted list of places where beliefs may be shared, and explicitly bans any beliefs from being shared in residential buildings, or on another association's property without permission" quotes from HERE.  I am sure there is more, but to me just this, appears not even subtle, since there would be no problem IF permission was given. The question is, in the case of Jehovah's Witnesses, why isn't permission given?

It looks a lot like somebody was doing somebody else a favor....in return for other favors perhaps? Politicians are just people after all...

[divergenceKO]

On the internet, the above list can be a lot bigger. Satan has had a good control over apostates. Then again, it wouldn't be the end of days without them, would it. If he has influence here, there is no stoppage in those groups.

1.       Silent-Lamb

2.       Advocates for Jehovah’s Witness reform on blood (AJWRB).

3.       Barbara Anderson’s own website. The most evil female ever to enter Bethel only to choose fame. Fame that never happened. I mentioned it, since I didn’t see her website on the list.

4.       The Catholic Church. It includes the majority of traditional churches.

5.       Friends of Jehovah’s Witnesses (Formerly known as the Jehovah's Witness reform movement).

Many, Many more. Including some here.

[Melinda Mills]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

2 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

I would say it another way: False religion is a snare and a racket.   Not hard to correct. 

That's true, but it would not attract as much attention. Rutherford had been a political marketer before following Russell/WT/Bible Students. This is why he would ADV/ADV/ADV. And why gimmicks like putting David and Abraham on a property deed were important to him. This is why he used the title "Judge."

But I think it was Covington who figured out that he could do much better in the courts if we agreed to be recognized as a religion. Religious rights were easier to fight for than unspecified rights or civil rights of a group who would otherwise be seen only as "peddlers." Tresspassing laws were decidedly against peddlers, but the United States was being recognized in the twentieth century as much more amenable to a variety of religions, and we weren't the only religion asking for (and getting) expanded rights.

Thanks for this part of the history of the restoration of true worship.  However, it also brings out my point that we should retire this kind of talk, since today we certainly believe that Jehovah always had witnesses, and we are not a new religion, but a restoration of true worship.  In my opinion, I certainly think we were in religion in those days but not aware of our rights - or our rights were not quotable in the society of the day. Jesus was not recognized as a true prophet or as the coming Messiah in his time either, although he certainly was.    If we go back to this kind of talk, then we should not talk about the true religion, restoration of true worship or Jehovah's Witnesses is not a new religion, which points we had several tracts and books relaying  over the years in modern times.  For example:

*** rs p. 202-p. 203 Jehovah’s Witnesses ***
How old is the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

According to the Bible, the line of witnesses of Jehovah reaches back to faithful Abel. Hebrews 11:4–12:1 says: “By faith Abel offered God a sacrifice of greater worth than Cain . . . By faith Noah, after being given divine warning of things not yet beheld, showed godly fear . . . By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed in going out into a place he was destined to receive as an inheritance . . . By faith Moses, when grown up, refused to be called the son of the daughter of Pharaoh, choosing to be ill-treated with the people of God rather than to have the temporary enjoyment of sin . . . So, then, because we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also put off every weight and the sin that easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us.”

With reference to Jesus Christ, the Bible states: “These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God.” Of whom was he a witness? He himself said that he made his Father’s name manifest. He was the foremost witness of Jehovah.—Rev. 3:14; John 17:6.

Interestingly, some of the Jews asked whether the activity of Jesus Christ represented “a new teaching.” (Mark 1:27) Later, some Greeks thought the apostle Paul was introducing a “new teaching.” (Acts 17:19, 20) It was new to the ears of those who were hearing it, but the important thing was that it was the truth, in full harmony with God’s Word.

The modern-day history of Jehovah’s Witnesses began with the forming of a group for Bible study in Allegheny, Pennsylvania, U.S.A., in the early 1870’s. At first they were known only as Bible Students, but in 1931 they adopted the Scriptural name Jehovah’s Witnesses. (Isa. 43:10-12) Their beliefs and practices are not new but are a restoration of first-century Christianity."  End quote

 

Bold text mine
 

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, Anna said:

I looks a lot like somebody was doing somebody else a favor....in return for other favors perhaps?

I would certainly never say that it was impossible. I took the word of some what I thought were respectable sources that the laws were not aimed primarily at religion. But sometimes even respectable sources don’t know their knee from their elbow.

[Matthew9969]

Than you guys and girls for verifying jw idolatry.

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

*** rs p. 202-p. 203 Jehovah’s Witnesses ***
How old is the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

 

2 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

The modern-day history of Jehovah’s Witnesses began with the forming of a group for Bible study in Allegheny, Pennsylvania, U.S.A., in the early 1870’s. At first they were known only as Bible Students, but in 1931 they adopted the Scriptural name Jehovah’s Witnesses. (Isa. 43:10-12) Their beliefs and practices are not new but are a restoration of first-century Christianity."  End quote

What a remarkable introduction for the restoration of "first-century Christianity" in 1931.  One to put down in the history books for all JWs. 

Something to be proud of?... 

The interview with J.F. Rutherford that appeared
in the San Diego Sun, March 15, 1930

"But how will you identify King David or any of the other representatives from God?' Rutherford was asked. 'I thought all that out before I wrote the deed,' the judge replied with a twinkle in his gray eyes. 'I realized the possibility of some old codger turning up bright and early some morning and declaring he was David. The men whom I have designated to test the identity of these men are officers of my societies and have consecrated themselves to the Lord, they will be divinely authorized to know impostors from the real princes.'"

Time Magazine of Mar 31, 1930 wrote: "Judge Joseph Frederick Rutherford 60, lives in a ten room Spanish mansion, No 4440 Braeburn Rd, San Diego, Calif. Last week he deeded No 4440 Braeburn Road, and adjacent two car garage and a pair of automobiles to King David, Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthae, Samuel and sundry other mighties of ancient Palestine. Positive is he that they are shortly to reappear on earth, Said he: 'I have purposely landscaped the place with palm and olive trees so that these princes of the universe will feel at home ..".

The San Diego Sun of Jan 9 1931 wrote: "A gaunt unshaven tramp has been the lone claimant for the $75,000 Southern Californian mansion of David, king of Israel, since it was deeded to the Biblical character a year ago. This was revealed today by Judge James Rutherford, temporary owner of the luxuriantly furnished Spanish type mansion at 440 Braeburn Rd in the exclusive Kensington Heights district. In one of the oddest deeds ever recorded, Rutherford, president of the International Bible Students Association and the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, has placed in trust the magnificent estate for ancient kings and prophets of Israel. The slayer of Goliath and his companions may occupy the 10 room modern home with it's landscaped gardens and patio as soon as their credentials are approved by Rutherford and officials of his societies, divinely authorised to recognise them.

One morning as I was going from the house to the garage, a queer looking creature approached me, tipped his dirty hat and cried 'Howdy Judge, I'm David' 'Go and tell that to the winds', I told him and he left without arguing the matter. I could see at a glance that he was not David. He didn't look like I knew David would look.' Asked how he expected David and his distinguished brethren to look, Rutherford, without hesitation, opened his huge Bible and pointed to a verse which said that the Princes of the Universe would be risen from the dead 'as perfect men'. 'I interpret that to mean', the tall dignified Judge declared, 'that David, Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jepthae, Joseph and Samuel will be sent here to wrench the world from Satan's grasp, clothed in modern garb as we are, and able, with little effort, to speak our tongue.' Rutherford pictured the arrival of the biblical delegation perhaps in frock coats, high hats, canes and spats.

At Beth Sarim (House of Princes) as Rutherford has named his mansion, David will find the most modern appliances that science has devised. When the distinguished guests walk up the circular stairway to the second floor, they will find a large office with red leather chairs and shiny flat topped desk with inverted lighting. Even French telephones await the touch of the princes. Opening a wide door, the native sons of Palestine will behold a large bathroom, resplendent in shiny black tile with needle shower and an amply filled medicine chest. What a thrill giant shouldered Samson, who wrecked a palace with his bare fists might find in the gold safety razor and strop! Rutherford built the second floor bedroom, which he temporarily occupies, large in order to accommodate several of the expected owners. With wide pane windows that look out on the purple Cuyamacas to the East and California's first mission to the north, the bedroom is almost severe in it's furnishings. The rulers of the universe will have simple tastes, the judge apparently believes, although the austere end tables sported gaily covered fiction magazines. Rutherford has imported some Koniach, Wasser from Cologne, Germany to freshen the princely faces after shaving. A black skull cap hangs over one of the bedposts.

The coming of David and his companions will be the greatest news story of the ages, Rutherford predicted. 'I am not a publicity seeker,' Rutherford said with a twinkle in his kindly brown eyes, 'but I feel that the world should know about their arrival. It will be a great news story.' Word of his 'House of king David' has reached into every corner of the world, the judge stated. 'Everywhere I went people asked me about this place,' Rutherford said. 'In Chicago a millionaire manufacturer offered to build another house for David, but I declined the offer. 'Literally thousands have driven here to see this place,' Rutherford continued. 'Many have come to the door and my secretary has shown them about the place.' The patio with it's silver pool and olive and palm trees is gay with flowers. Down toward the canyon, paths have been landscaped to allow David and his friends to walk in meditation. Many of the fruits and trees, native to their Palestine, will greet the rulers when they arrive. In the two car garage next door stands a new, yellow 16 cylinder coupe which will be turned over to the rulers along with all the personal property on the place. 'Everything will be theirs, the house, the land, the furnishings and even the clothes if they need them,' Judge Rutherford said. 'What will I do? Oh, don't worry about me. I'll manage somehow.' the judge smiled. He had another 'Watch Tower' residence on Staten Island and practically an entire floor at Bethel. The seven famous men will not have long to rest at their San Diego estate because they soon will lead the forces of the Lord to vanquish the minions of Satan at the battle of Armageddon, Rutherford believed. 'But they will win out. The Lord will punish the devil and will show that the preachers and the politicians have been giving the people false counsel,' Rutherford said confidently. Rutherford will sail May 9 for Europe where he will speak before conventions in Berlin, Paris and London."

 

As my rather frank mother would have said, “the guy is a crackpot”.   

 

[Srecko Sostar]

https://web.archive.org/web/20060218124721/http://members.cox.net/tzdaniels/pictures/Time_March_31_1930.jpg

8 hours ago, Witness said:

10 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

The modern-day history of Jehovah’s Witnesses began with the forming of a group for Bible study in Allegheny, Pennsylvania, U.S.A., in the early 1870’s. At first they were known only as Bible Students, but in 1931 they adopted the Scriptural name Jehovah’s Witnesses. (Isa. 43:10-12) Their beliefs and practices are not new but are a restoration of first-century Christianity."  End quote

It is impressive how Russell and Rutherford doing "fine job" and have been fine example of Opposers to established religions of their period of time. Reasoning book calling this two men as restoration leaders, who Reinstated true doctrines and true religion as it was in 1st Century.

But, Jesus, as Opposer to Jew Religion established system, never mentioned that it would be needed to build house with olive trees for Ancient Princes in 1929. 

As curiosity, what would people say when those Ancient Princes would ask for women. Few for each of them?

What was the subject, content of Rutherford's effort to restore, with building house for ANCIENT princes? Christianity or Old/New Jew Kingdom? 

Comfortable San Diego accommodation  in 1929 is Type and Modern Warwick is Anti-Type for GB Princes :))  

What about 1931 period doctrines and practices? To what sort of "restoration" do they belong? To which period of time do they belong? To 1st Century Christianity time? If they do belong to that period, why they are not stayed as actual beliefs and practice of modern JW? If Modern JW of our time acting as Opposers to practices and beliefs of Restoration in Russell' and Rutherford' time .... than who is True Restorer of 1st century Christianity inside WT Society and JW org?    

 

Does this statement is really valid from today's standpoint?  "Their beliefs and practices are not new but are a restoration of first-century Christianity."  - Reasoning Book quote

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I have been able to locate  an eight minute and 38 second recording  of Brother Dave Gardner, from the 1960's whose historical research contributed greatly to our current understandings and perspectives.

This was before the Society banned cigarettes, later if memory serves, in the early 1970's.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What about 1931 period doctrines and practices? To what sort of "restoration" do they belong? To which period of time do they belong? To 1st Century Christianity time? If they do belong to that period, why they are not stayed as actual beliefs and practice of modern JW? If Modern JW of our time acting as Opposers to practices and beliefs of Restoration in Russell' and Rutherford' time .... than who is True Restorer of 1st century Christianity inside WT Society and JW org?    

 

Julius Caesar--Brother Dave Gardner.mp4

[Witness]

Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom p. 89  (jv chap. 7 pp. 72-89)

“House of the Princes”

Brother Rutherford had a severe case of pneumonia after his release from unjust imprisonment in 1919. Thereafter, he had only one good lung. In the 1920’s, under a doctor’s treatment, he went to San Diego, California, and the doctor urged him to spend as much time as possible there. From 1929 on, Brother Rutherford spent the winters working at a San Diego residence he had named Beth-Sarim. Beth-Sarim was built with funds that were a direct contribution for that purpose. The deed, which was published in full in “The Golden Age” of March 19, 1930, conveyed this property to J. F. Rutherford and thereafter to the Watch Tower Society.

Concerning Beth-Sarim, the book “Salvation,” published in 1939, explains: “The Hebrew words ‘Beth Sarim’ mean ‘House of the Princes’; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there might be some tangible proof that there are those on earth today who fully believe God and Christ Jesus and in His kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth.”

A few years after Brother Rutherford’s death, the board of directors of the Watch Tower Society decided to sell Beth-Sarim. Why? “The Watchtower” of December 15, 1947, explained: “It had fully served its purpose and was now only serving as a monument quite expensive to keep; our faith in the return of the men of old time whom the King Christ Jesus will make princes in ALL the earth (not merely in California) is based, not upon that house Beth-Sarim, but upon God’s Word of promise.” *

[Footnote]

At the time, it was believed that faithful men of old times, such as Abraham, Joseph, and David, would be resurrected before the end of this system of things and would serve as “princes in all the earth,” in fulfillment of Psalm 45:16. This view was adjusted in 1950, when further study of the Scriptures indicated that those earthly forefathers of Jesus Christ would be resurrected after Armageddon.—See “The Watchtower,” November 1, 1950, pages 414-17.

 

Apparently, this crazy endeavor of Rutherford's, is excused because the house "fully served its purpose", as a "monument" "that there there might be tangible proof of a belief held out by JWs today.  

The Bible's promises were not enough to put faith in.