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9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

All want to do that, to be in control of

I agree with you. ......

Unfortunately, to want control other humans is morally wrong.  Most apostates here do not like any form of control over them  - even when it comes from God...... who actually is the only one who has the right to prescribe one set of principles for all. We are all meant to be equal under God. If every person sets their own rules there will never be peace and unity.

When a human wants to control anything about another human - he is showing satanic qualities. We never should try to control anything which belongs to, or is part of another human.  Total freedom and equality under God - this is the goal.  This is respect for another human's free will to choose what they want.

Unfortunately, some Witnesses are imperfect in their love and still tend to like to control others without respect for their free will.  Jehovah even allows those who oppose him to express their free will.

In future in paradise, all people will willingly subject themselves to Jehovah and his standards in free will.  They will never try to tell another person  what to do because all will be totally free and equal under God.

Society will then function perfectly because the law of love will prevail. No laws are necessary if one truly loves others.  One will not covet anything which is another's or take anything from them or dominate them in an way by being egotistical, selfish or greedy.

Jehovah will step into mankind"s affairs when humans have reached a point of totalitarian domination - soon they will use our modern technology (our arrogant achievements) to dominate mankind in a most unjust way....... history of mankind (estranged from god) repeating itself. 

By the way, I watch China and Russia (allies) as fulfillment of the prophecies in Daniel 11 :40 onward.   Soon we will see the worst domination on earth mankind has ever experienced...... if jehovah does not step in ...no flesh will be saved.   We have reached the apex of our tech achievements and like everything else .... our tendency to dominate (imperfection) will bring this dire situation about.

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On 10/14/2019 at 3:10 AM, Arauna said:

Yes, seen footage of eyes bound and hand bound muslims (hands behind their back) standing on knees for hours and beaten when they fall over

I've heard about these. Some footage actually turned out to be footage from Abu Ghraib. People have passed off footage of Indonesian police beating fellow Indonesians with the purpose of fooling persons into thinking it was about treatment of Uyghurs, or more recently, beatings by Hong Kong police in HK (where actual damning video is available).

Social media even made use of pictures of muslims supposedly crying over their situation when it was later shown that the most famous of these pictures was actually just a meme from China's version of SnapChat (called Tik Tok) where the original picture was of a Muslim woman and the "crying effect" had been implemented on the picture. It was not even part of the original.

On 10/14/2019 at 3:10 AM, Arauna said:

I have seen  testimonies of other Chinese who happened to belong to Falon  Gong exercise groups.... talking of the processing for body parts and immediate excecutions to harvest.

When I worked in NYC, Falun Gong groups would take over the sidewalk of half a city block and set up posters of picture of torture and bloody beatings. I didn't realize at the time that Falun Gong was a Buddhist-styled cult trying to renew its image and be seen in the West merely as an innocent "exercise group." The cult has been caught lying about the torture both in word and pictures for many years. But as an anticommunist media outlet, preaching the end of communism in a divine day of reckoning, they were quickly subsidized by anticommunist groups and governments. Today they get their message out in NYC by offering the Epoch Times newspaper for free in most of the same HUNDREDS of places where the free network owned daily newspapers are available.


The claim about processing for body parts has been debunked, too, by the way.

Everyone who thinks that Falun Gong is harmless should look at all the available evidence. One can start first by just getting a glimpse of their beliefs as described here at spitfire.com just for a start. The following excerpts are from an hour long podcast also available on the site:


Introduction: We begin with brief review of the Falun Gong cult and its connections. Part of a constellation of organizations and individuals working with former Trump chief of staff Steve Bannon to neutralize China, Falun Gong has garnered the support of CIA derivative Broadcasting Board of Governors in the effort.

The Falun Gong teaches that: post menopausal women can regain menstruation, considered mandatory for spiritual evolution; gays are demonized; mixed race people are demonized; cult members are discouraged from seeking modern medical treatment; space aliens are inhabiting human bodies and are responsible for modern technology such as airplanes and computers; tiny beings are said to be invading human bodies and causing “bad karma;” master Li Hongzhi knows the secrets of the universe; master Li Hongzhi can levitate and walk through walls; master Li Hongzhi can install a physical “Falun”–swastika–in the abdomen of followers which revolves in various directions; Falun Gong teaching demonizes feminists and popular music; there will be a “Judgement Day” on which communists and others deemed unworthy by master Li Hongzhi will be neutralized.

Falun Gong–largely through its Epoch Times newspaper–has established a major social media presence and is a key ally of President Trump’s re-election effort: “. . . . In April, at the height of its ad spending, videos from the Epoch Media Group, which includes The Epoch Times and digital video outlet New Tang Dynasty, or NTD, combined for around 3 billion views on Facebook, YouTube and Twitter, ranking 11th among all video creators across platforms and outranking every other traditional news publisher, according to data from the social media analytics company Tubular. That engagement has made The Epoch Times a favorite of the Trump family and a key component of the president’s re-election campaign. . . . .”

Program Highlights Include: The enormous amount of money under control of Falun Gong; similarities to the Unification Church; the anti-communist dogma of the cult (again, not unlike the Unification Church); the role of the internet and social media–Facebook, in particular–in the growth of Falun Gong’s operations; the spin put by NBC on Falun Gong’s beliefs.

There is a very graphic picture of the supposed harvesting of organs here. As real as it looks, the caption of the picture says that it is a reenactment for the media. When the group flooded the sidewalks of NY and London with pictures of "actual" bloody repression, it was admitted by members that these were made from re-enactments because no actual pictures are allowed to come out of China.

Note that the idea is meant to look as shocking and revolting as the "fact" that the Germans were using ground up babies to lubricate their tanks and other war machinery during WWII. This was a "fact" that I learned in school in Missouri as late as 1965.

The problem with such claims is that if true they would be unmanageable. If it were really true that there are more Falun Gong members in China than members of the CCP, and there are literally about 100,000 of these organ harvestings going on per year, then how would one stop a Falun Gong member from getting an actual picture out?

(A lot of people have the idea that there are no foreign journalists in China, they are all over the country. A lot of people believe that Chinese people cannot get any Internet outside of the Chinese CCP controlled Internet. It's a little more money, but it's done through the use of a VPN service, just as many people use here and in other countries. You can talk to Chinese people in mainland China this way, even through Western-owned social media apps.)

Most media I can find is still very much on the side of the Falun Gong, who appear to be undergoing mostly unwarranted persecution. It seems likely that this is based on so publicly denouncing the Chinese government by using Western-sourced media piped back into China, which evidently includes unwarranted lies about violence used against Falun Gong.

But on the issue of the organ harvesting, what I find most interesting here is that in an article below DEFENDING Falun Gong, we also have an admission that the claims of organ harvesting started, not from Falun Gong, but from a Japanese journalist who "heard about it." For those who know the historical and the current situation between Japan and China, this is suspicious. Currently there are journalists in Japan, and even a leader, who is willing to deny the "Rape of Nanking" (Nanjing) which is the equivalent of 'holocaust denial' in the West.

note the following from https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-21/what-is-the-falun-gong-movement-and-does-china-harvest-organs/9679690


Organ harvesting: is that really happening?

According to Falun Gong itself, the ongoing suppression has led to the imprisonment of tens of thousands of practitioners, and claimed some 3,000 lives — but the claims of horror don't stop there.

In 2006, a controversial Canadian report brought the world's attention for the first time to a horrific allegation: that the Chinese Government was secretly harvesting organs of Falun Gong followers.

The report said the Chinese regime was performing some 60,000 to 100,000 transplants per year — about six times the official total of about 10,000 — and that this means that there are unacknowledged organ sources in China, the primary one being imprisoned Falun Gong practitioners.


Acknowledging widespread scepticism towards the report, one of the authors of the original report, David Matas, a prominent human rights lawyer, told the ABC that "there is new evidence every day".

But Benjamin Penny, an expert of religious and spiritual movements in China and a professor at Australian National University, told the ABC that he does not think organ harvesting is an ongoing practice.

"Certainly, we know that many practitioners are in prison. That's well known and there's no controversy about that," Dr Penny said.

"But organ harvesting is an entirely different question. Organ harvesting is a claim that was not initially made by Falun Gong itself but by a Japanese journalist who heard about it.

"My view on it is that I have not seen evidence which convinces me that is true. But I've not seen any evidence that convinces me that it's not true.


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Falon Gong gong - are not allowed to do it in their own home...... privately. 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

My view on it is that I have not seen evidence which convinces me that is true. But I've not seen any evidence that convinces me that it's not true.


I am listening to those who come from China... and Russia (Russians come to assemblies in Georgia), Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan etc..... people with feet on the ground.... and I know the communist history.....

The Perestroika and the capitalist aberrations in China are OVER..... past tense.  Chinese imperialism is HERE and they mean business according to the state propaganda and the new level of surveillance on their citizens. Comply with the totalitarian government or feel the pain.

(I can see when drone footage comes from Indonesia or not.  I am not as naive as you surmise.) I know Islam better than most people..... and I know its terrible dangers..... but injustice is something I hate - even if it is on my religious enemy. I can never condone separation of children from their parents for state re-education.

Read the latest UN Migration compact 2018..... and you will see that media now ALL have guidelines to adhere to and most are silent on neo-communism. Journalists are re-trained to not write about certain subjects..... or become unemployable.

The Pope and heads if abrahamic religions is signing a new compact in may 2020 - to unite these religions in purpose.  JESUS HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM IT.  A new religion and value system will soon also be here.

The true conditions under Islam is not reported, the Christian murders in Africa and middle east is not reported, the take-over of African assets by Chinese is not reported..... even the harbours in USA that are run by Chinese and Russians are not reported - even when they have military connections to their motherland.

I do not argue with people who believe the lame news media about the non-threatening stance of communism.  I have read how it has spread though philosophy into the west and is now infiltrated everywhere...... in a brilliant subversion move.... the old communist tactic.

I also do not believe that majority rule (democracy) or capitalism is the answer to mankind"s problems.  Super- Capitalism looks like communism and it is busy importing a form of technocratic communism into the entire Western world. Junker and Van der Hoffstadt in EU meetings openly claim that China is the future model to follow.... .

Human governments do not work.... and America is as rotten to the core in the upper echelons of society....as UK is. One just needs to look at the millions they are making in poor countries such as Ukraine and the elite collaborations with China,(sitting on company boards) and human trafficking- especially children.

I am not so naive as to believe that both sides if the political isle in USA  still has honest people left.  Most are rotten to the core and corrupt - in it for influence and money...... not the benefit of the people.   The Epstein cover ups have proved that the judicial system is totally rotten. The few decent persons cannot fight against the tsunami  of injustice, cover-up and wickedness much longer.

So, while I pull apart communism I also realize the wickedness and futility in the west.....

That is why I am a JW - I realize that the world system from all sides is so corrupt that only jehovah can fix it.....

The money powers behind this new oppressive government will be so powerful that the usual government methods of voting cannot fix it - jehovah will have to step in to remove the rulers of this world and their invisible coordinator.

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8 hours ago, divergenceKO said:

I understand the power you have. You must be confused on whom the bad ones are. Try a little honesty.



Don’t tell me Vic Vomidog went down! If so, Anna will rejoice. She has said that she never liked him. And with good reason. Vic is a rotter through and through. He appears in my first book.

Ivor E. Tower, who is actually a published religious scholar specializing in “new religions,” was kind enough to review “Tom Irregardless and Me.” Vic (the skunk) is included in his paragraph:

The book is about real people and issues, although the author has changed the names of rank-and-file members to preserve name anonymity. Tom Irregardless is an elder who uses the spurious word “irregardless” liberally in his Bible talks. Other characters include John Wheatnweeds, who hinders members from their house-to-house ministry by spending inordinate amounts of time expounding the text of the day before they set out. Then there is posh brandy-sipping Bernard Strawman, who receives frequent visits from the publishers, but continues to raise facile objections to their faith. Vic Vomidog, an apostate, repeatedly seeks to hamper their work. Other chapters are about real JW celebrities such as Prince, who is the subject of an entire chapter.”

Vic has gone down, has he? Sometimes when the squabbling here becomes intense, I would wish that everyone was banned and the entire WorldNewsMedia forum simply be devoted to coverage of my books. I’ll speak to Admin about it.

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9 hours ago, Arauna said:

I am fully aware of my inadequacies and the futility of wasting my time here..... also another kind of OCD ? Lol

For whatever it is worth, I find very enlightening your exchange with JWI on this topic. I gain much from both of your views. 

There are no “typical” Witnesses here, in my view, except for a few that occasionally stray here, sometimes naively offer comments, thinking persons will be readjusted, and then leave shocked when they discover that no way will it happen. On a few occasions, I have chased them away—it is fine for them to stay here if they wish, but they should know the score before they do. They should not think that Witness, for example,  is some misguided sister that they can help with but a kind word or two.

Even you (though I have not seen it) can be expected to come in for criticism from some of the friends, who will confuse being knowledgeable about world affairs with violating neutrality.

I’ll throw in a few teasers which vary in relevance—comment on them as you see fit. (Same goes for JWI) I value both.

The “terrible trade deals” with China that Trump carries on about (and most of the U.S. business community agrees that they are indeed terrible from the US point of view) were based on the assumption that if China became prosperous, its own citizens would demand government not Communist and would lean to a more democratic model. Instead, the very opposite is happening. True or no?

The reason that theft of intellectual property proves so intractable to negotiate is that the communist government and those molded by it really doesn’t understand the concept. True or no?

I know almost nothing about Falun Gong. The first time I heard of them it was in connection with a subway gas attack in Japan, and from that point on figured that it was some wacky cult. Was that story a plant?

The son of a local sister who recently died, and I was at her funeral, is the author of a book on Unit 731, a Japanese wartime atrocity roughly the equivalent of Hitler’s camps, from the same WWII era. The reports of organ harvesting mirror things documented there, though there it was more medical experiments than harvesting, like in some German Camps.



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My dear friend TTH. As far as I can tell no one here is a true JW, I’ve said it before. No one here speaks for the Watchtower. That is especially true for JWinsider. In order for that to happen, a JW would need to adhere and comply fully with scripture.

This site is meant to give spiritually weak people the platform to speak out against the Watchtower. Those of us, or at least I never, thought I could convince anyone here about anything within what their tormented minds have already decided. I never cared for it. I know my group doesn’t care either.

What they do care, is “sitting the record straight” about many deceptions, misleading, misguided, misrepresentation and plain false allegations about the Watchtower and Bible Truth.

You have not chased anyone away. But you have “banned” people at your leisure. A little like “if you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen” scenario. It is apparent you prefer to have opposers (around) than true “defenders of the truth”. There’s a difference. That doesn’t mean you can ban everyone. Someone will come in to defend the Watchtower from slander. They will defend God’s truth within the Watchtower from ex-witness bashing. Something too common here.

The point is, this site has a “false” presentation about “News regarding JW.org, Watchtower, IBSA including... “ that make people think this is NOT an apostate site, when indeed it is.

If you don’t want defenders of the truth, change your website platform to exclude the Watchtower and stop advertising this site as a JW friendly site.

I just want to make sure your words are honest and realist.

Now, I agree with Melinda, you should close this post. It’s gone rogue!!

Of course, I mean after one of you makes a disingenuous comment as the last word in this post. I understand strength and pride.

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38 minutes ago, Allen_Smith said:

Now, I agree with Melinda, you should close this post. It’s gone rogue

No, don’t @Melinda Mills (are YOU the owner?)—not yet.  Let me answer Allen first.

I may not get to till it tomorrow, though. Perhaps I can bump it up. If my meetings with Vic Vomidog, Dr Max “Ace” Inhibitor, Professor Adhomenen, Arguis Maxus, and a few others go well, maybe I can get back here tonight. 

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