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On 10/26/2019 at 3:54 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

That goes back to the old adage that people who play the violin often have OTHER nasty habits.

But not violinist have nasty habits, some of them are good people, some who have tragic upbringings and or was formerly someone who was a nasty person who turned over a new leaf. 

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You guys are getting too personal...... really .  It does not bring honour to jehovah  if we (myself included) get personal.  It serves no edifying purpose....

To see words as "how dare you"  etc indicates a spirit of arrogance.  God can speak for himself..... he does not need us to show indignation on his behalf...... just like muslims who think they have the right to kill for god./ or in his name.

On 10/17/2019 at 1:34 PM, Witness said:

was a wallflower in the organization.  I

Not prepared to only preach.... I understand completely.  

You and Pearl.... where do you go for meetings as instructed by Jehovah. Where is the nation you belong to as stipulated in Isaaih 2:2-4....... a nation which comprises people if all tribes on the earth. .....? And prays to Jehovah....... and accepts christ as only a man of flesh?....... and preaches world-wide in fulfillment of Matt 24:14

While I u understand the imperfections of humans (GB are humans as you are) I also understand that jehovah worked with Israel before Jesus was born...... and they did many terrible things.. 

You spend so much time on here breaking down those who serve jehovah..... no building up. Using the word of God as a misleading weapon. This is NOT the fruit of the spirit from God.  I am not deceivied by you no matter how sincere you may personally feel. 

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10 hours ago, Arauna said:

You spend so much time on here breaking down those who serve jehovah

It is far far far easier—and more alluring—to tear down than it is to build up.

However, it is more noble to do the latter.

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33 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is far far far easier—and more alluring—to tear down than it is to build up.

However, it is more noble to do the latter.

I can agree.

But, we all know also this. If you want to build new house on the same place where is old one, you have to do first step - tear down the old - and make place for new. 

Same is with ideology, doctrines, beliefs and faith. You have to tear down all what is old, poorly built and not good enough ... than there will be place (in our heads) to introduce new and better. 

Illustration with house/head is correct.  In verbatim situation perhaps you can choose some other place for building new house. But you can't replace own head with new head. :))) So, all battles are in our heads. Perhaps all what is received stay forever in some corner of our mind. But every old idea have to be disassembled into small pieces, into such small pieces that they can never be assembled again. 

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2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

than there will be place (in our heads) to introduce new and better. 

It would be nice if you could provide a preview of this. 

I see no evidence of the “new and better,” only an emphasis on demolishing what is. 

In fact, that is why JWs became JWs in the first place; they tired of the “new and better” promises that always turned out to be but empty words.

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5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But, we all know also this. If you want to build new house on the same place where is old one, you have to do first step - tear down the old - and make place for new. 

I can agree in certain aspects of this comment. The 16th century protestant reformation began a good concept to break away from the papacy and the church fathers distinct preservation of the old standard of keeping the bible from the public.

It was unfortunate that the dominant church sought to execute those like Martin Luther and William Tyndale that made any attempts to have the people read and understand the bible for themselves to see for themselves the mistakes of the church. I personally respect Tyndale for that brave move that eventually got him killed by the church.

Another place I can agree with tearing down the old house to build a new house is exactly what Russell did in his day. He decided to forgo his parent’s teachings and that of the ranking Christendom of his day to start from scratch to understand the bible as Jesus spoke of it to the first century Christian.

A revision to the view of the reformer movement but with a better understanding that is placed before today’s society.

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9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It would be nice if you could provide a preview of this. 

I see no evidence of the “new and better,” only an emphasis on demolishing what is. 

In fact, that is why JWs became JWs in the first place; they tired of the “new and better” promises that always turned out to be but empty words.

That is because i am not source or medium to provide you religious spiritual light you looking for. As ex member of your church i have been in position you are now. "New and better" coming from Organization of people who take a lead. And as we all know these men do err, they are imperfect and are not inspired. And they proves that on daily basis.

Here i will connect another comment:

6 hours ago, Ray Devereaux said:

Another place I can agree with tearing down the old house to build a new house is exactly what Russell did in his day. He decided to forgo his parent’s teachings and that of the ranking Christendom of his day to start from scratch to understand the bible as Jesus spoke of it to the first century Christian.

 

A revision to the view of the reformer movement but with a better understanding that is placed before today’s society.

Russell was "rebellious" and looking for something "new and better". And he find something of that in Adventist teachings. And he accepted something what was "new and better", in his eyes and thinking. Because that what was "new and better" for him already existed in another "false religion" he latter left because of disagreements with established structures and doctrines. 

And what Russell have done? He moved some "new and better Adventist's stuff" into his movement, updated some old thoughts, made some modification, brought some "new" ideas. When he found, how there is no "hell" in Bible, did he introduce "new and better"? If people around believe in hell and you say how hell not existing, is that "new"? Maybe to some degree for them, but in fact no. You just say, make claim how hell not existing and said something Opposite to first common idea.   

What was replacement for "hell"? Death in Armageddon. Excommunication from congregation. What was purpose of hell? To explain people how they have to be good and not make God displeased and angry. 

In both cases, in religion with "hell", and in religion without "hell", we have expressed need to keep members to be in "fear" of God (and of human who operate in the name of God, too). And here you have how with time Religion of any sort, even Russell's WT Society operate and have not "new and better", but working in same frame under different terminology and scene.  

Teaching flock to be good is common task to all religion. And teaching them to be loyal to church they belong is also not something new.

 

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11 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

t would be nice if you could provide a preview of this. 

I see no evidence of the “new and better,” only an emphasis on demolishing what is. 

How many times on this forum have I said that the OLD system of justice, set in place by God, and used successfully for several THOUSAND years, where all hearings and trials on matters civil and religious were held in the City Gates of every town and city in Israel ... where Jehovah's Jewish Witnesses were actually WITNESSES to the inner workings of their ruling government ... not only in a general sense, but in EACH SPECIFIC CASE where adjudication was required?

A dozen times?

 We HAD a system that worked perfectly, ... where all city residents could watch the proceedings, and speak up from the back of the crowd, if they felt the need to ... where all witnesses called to testify could be challenged by anybody IN the crowd ( who might know the truth if they were lying) ... and where the administration of Justice in all matters by judges was completely open and subject to instant review by trial participants, local and out-of-town Jews, and even the passing foreigner.

There is only one problem with the system we have now ... where trials are held in secret, no outsiders hear the testimony,  where no recordings are allowed, and no person can have an advocate or legal representation, and even the REASON for banishment and expulsion is kept secret from everyone except the "insiders".

IT'S TYRANNY, .... for the express and deliberately DISGUISED reason to consolidate fear, power, and obedience to the Governing Body and their assigns, and completely remove that chain of command from any objective review, and ANY ACCOUNTABILITY WHATSOEVER.

.   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .

But I got news for you Bubba TTH .... the times, they are a-changin. 

That which has been kept in secrecy is being exposed, and those policies and procedures that have been arbitrary, capricious, and contrary to the administration of Justice and Mercy, is rotting from within, in the light of the information age we are now in.

I hope to live to see the day when all the things we have that are REALLY True, good, worthy and honorable are not contaminated  by organizational self-serving power and money grabs.

Currently, the GB has no accountability to anyone on Earth, BECAUSE they cannot be fired.

Jehovah watches as we, just in the times of ancient Israel, his organization on Earth was corrupted, and before he lowered the boom on them, he allowed it to increase for centuries.

There is a very real reason the WTB&TS discourages comprehensive education.

So you will not know the difference between a "Kangaroo Court", a "Star Chamber Court", and a being "Sent to Coventry", and not understand the nuances and implications of those systems of governance .... among many, many other things.

...and so that they can rule without ANY accountability, with COMPLETE impunity .....

..... as no one understands, or will recognize the difference.

 

 

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