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17 hours ago, Arauna said:

To tyranize against GB because they conduct business is not taking into account that Jesus said we can use "unrighteous riches" for him.

Did Jesus say we could use our material riches for him?   This contradicts his words in Luke 18:22:

 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” 

“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”  Matt 6:19-21   

There is no scripture that I know of, indicating where Jesus put any value on accumulating money or riches and providing these riches for him. Matt 21:12,13

Do you remember it was Satan who offered Jesus the kingdoms, their glory (and their riches) in the world?  Do you think he has, in the last days, made a pact with Satan, that he’ll now take riches from JWs for himself to build his own kingdoms in the world?

 “Unrighteous riches” convey a different, spiritual meaning:

 

 “When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” 20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God.” Acts 8:18-21

No one, can buy the gift of life with money or material riches, as the WT is telling you. 

17 hours ago, Arauna said:

Remember the prophecy of the final situation where we will not be able to 'buy or sell' if we do not conform (morally- the good and bad values of jehovah) to this system and NOT give our worship/ moral obedience to the state. 

Our test will be great because you will become persona non grata when your digital bank account with all your money is locked because you accept the ransom sacrifice of Jesus or do not practice LGBT. 

Undoubtedly, the world will suffer in extraordinary ways that we haven’t experienced before.  But, you are reading into a symbolic book, Revelation, an incorrect view the meaning of “buy and sell”.  In three instances, the book uses the word “buy”. 

“I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.”  Rev 3:18,19

I know you don’t think Christ is offering us literal gold, and we do not buy this gold with literal money.  This ‘treasure’ in gold refers to eternal life gained from the outpouring of his blood.  We “buy” this, not with literal riches in the world (that Wt teaches as “unrighteous riches”) but through repentance, obedience, and faith in his sacrifice.  We pay for it with our pure, clean, refined devotion to God. Mal 3:2-4; 1 Cor 3:13,14; John 17:17 We pay back Jesus by offering ourselves as obedient servants to his commands.  John 15:10; 2 Cor 5:15

 The symbolism of “buying” continues in Rev 13:17, where the “Beast”/false prophet of Rev 13:11,12 admonishes one to “buy” ITS spiritual “riches” produced by the organization that it directs.  (The WT also refers to the Wild Beast of Rev 13:1 as an "organization")  If one decided to reject this spiritual commodity, they are spiritually, symbolically “killed”. Rev 13:15  Now, isn’t this what the GB expects of all JWs, to “buy” whatever “food” comes from the “faithful and discreet slave” who “sell” it under the stipulation that no other spiritual commodities are acceptable?  How does a JW pay for it? With their devotion, servitude and respect for the organization and its leaders.  One must bear the “mark of the beast/organization” to take part in this spiritual transaction.  There’s a lot of controlled buying and selling by all parties, in the org.  2 Cor 11:2-4

 

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18 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The idea of keeping up with the Watchtower and Awake! lining up with 4 years of college did work its way into this article in 1983:

I am reminded of LeRoy Green—he would have said something like this. Leroy Green, who in the mixed congregation would drawl on without the slightest self-consciousness about “working for the white man” down in Mississippi. LeRoy Green, who retired from the railroads after 30 years with an intact pension. LeRoy Green, who in his 80s, was sought after by the younger brothers so they could jam with him. LeRoy Green, who, as I learned from relatives at his funeral, turned down an offer to tour with B.B.King, out of concern for his family and spirituality. LeRoy Green, with the most deep and infectious “hee-hee-hee” laugh you have ever heard, who I tried to line up to one day give my own funeral talk. It would have been one not to miss. I would have raised myself up from the dead to hear it: “Hee hee hee. Yeesss, that Tom Harley, he was a good ol boy. But he’s deeead now—D-E-A-D!”

Unfortunately, LeRoy Green died first. He would have been one to say—I think I do recall him saying it—that keeping up with theocratic publications was the equivalent of a 4-year college education.

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8 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

dropouts who just read a lot of awake magazines?

Definitely not dropouts...... one can keep learning without going to university.  One can get very talented people who have NO degree.......in science or art but still attain an extremely high level of competency.  

We have many engineers who are in the truth and they DO read a lot of Awake magazines ...and also magazines pertaining to their secular jobs to remain up  to date.

 

12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

the equivalent of a 4-year college education.

Any subject that one has studied for 12 years is equal to a college education. The first two years of college education teaches one the basic terminology and mechanisms. The third and fourth year are more advanced. It is only at master and doctorate level  one can say one us a master at one facet of a subject. 

Most witnesses know the basics of the bible in first year and after that start to build their knowledge. Bring me a doctor of theology that understands that Jesus is not God, that the soul of jesus died at his death, that keeping parts of the law such as sabbath and tithes are incorrect....... and I can go on and on........

It depends on the individual JW to maintain the first two year skills given to them and improve on it by self-study  and preparing well for the meetings. 

 

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Witness,  if you have the idea that God did plan for a financial system in this wicked world to exist and we should see  "unrighteous riches" as symbolic...... then go ahead and believe what you want.

I believe that God allowed a financial system to exist after Adam and Eve sinned and it therefore is unrighteous. What we earn from it is also "unrighteous."  BUT we can serve God by means of our unrighteous riches by paying for things (petrol, our time we can use to gain unrighteous riches) etc.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Arauna said:

Bring me a doctor of theology that understands that Jesus is not God, that the soul of jesus died at his death, that keeping parts of the law such as sabbath and tithes are incorrect....... and I can go on and on........

Yes, but this what you are talking about, going to theology, philosophy, interpretations ..... and not to science in strict way of what science is. Something that scientist can prove with scientific methods.  

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On 11/4/2019 at 7:44 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

Pretty much like this verse, from this week’s Bible reading:

“They originate with the world; that is why they speak what originates with the world and the world listens to them.” (1 John 4:5)

Seconded. 

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10 hours ago, Arauna said:

if you have the idea that God did plan for a financial system in this wicked world to exist

God never had plans for a financial system to exist in this world.  Mankind was plunged into darkness because of Adam and Eve's sin. The "ruler of this world" has aided in our development of a financial system.   God has offered us "riches" in Jesus Christ that we either accept or discard for earthly riches instead. Eph 2:1-5

It depends on the cravings of the individual.  

Tell those who have the riches of this world not to be arrogant and not to place their confidence in anything as uncertain as riches. Instead, they should place their confidence in God who richly provides us with everything to enjoy.  1 Tim 6:17

“Listen! Whoever is thirsty, come to the water!
    Whoever has no money can come, buy, and eat!
        Come, buy wine and milk. You don’t have to pay; it’s free!
2 Why do you spend money on what cannot nourish you
    and your wages on what does not satisfy you?
Listen carefully to me:
    Eat what is good, and enjoy the best foods.
3 Open your ears, and come to me!
Listen so that you may live!
I will make an everlasting promise to you—
    the blessings I promised to David."  Isa 55:1-3

Come to me, all who are tired from carrying heavy loads, and I will give you rest. 29 Place my yoke over your shoulders, and learn from me, because I am gentle and humble. Then you will find rest for yourselves 30 because my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”   Matt 11:28,29

 

 

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3 hours ago, Witness said:

God never had plans for a financial system to exist in this world

Exactly my reply...... that is why it is called "unrighteous riches". 

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"We have great sympathy for both the First Adventists (the Jews) and the Second Adventists, though only a few of either realized the truths they So nearly apprehended, yet failed to grasp, each being blinded by false expectations. Our Adventist friends have failed to recognize both the manner and the object of the Lord’s return as taught in the Scriptures; consequently they have not been expecting to ‘see him as he is,’ but as he was. They consider the object of his coming one which will fill the hearts of all except the saints with dismay and terror; that his object is to gather the elect, destroy all others of mankind, and burn up the world."   Interesting how conflicted people start with William miller’s account of chronology, 1844. I wonder if Brown and Miller were the only ones to make calculations on the 1260 days, 2520 days. CHRONOLOGY--Prominent Dates. Q76:1: QUESTION (1910)--1--Should we consider it necessary to call attention to other Prominent dates than 1874, 1878, 1881 or 1914? Should 1911 be included?   ANSWER--I am glad that question is there, my dear brothers and sisters. You will notice that in my own teachings and writings I am careful to avoid any other dates than these. I know nothing about other dates. In the third volume of Scripture Studies there is a suggestion, but it is offered only as a suggestion, merely that a certain measurement in the Pyramid (not in the Word of God) Looks as though it might point down to 1910 or 1911, but we do not say that it does mean anything, but merely throw out a suggestion. Don't anticipate, don't say things are to occur, for we do not know, at least I don't, and don't believe anyone else does. My advice is to follow the Apostle when he says, "We speak those things that we know." Don't say anything about those things that you do not know. Quite likely you will wish you had not after a while. Nineteen hundred and fourteen is the time when the "Gentile Times" will end. What does that mean? I do not know, but I think it is when God lets go in a general sense of the word, and permits things to take their course; and we can readily suppose, as the Apostle says, that the course of nature would be set on fire, because of strife. In the world of mankind, I shall expect a time of great trouble, which the Bible marks out as having its beginning about October, 1914, but I think, dear friends, that it is more important, instead of telling of the time of trouble, to tell about the good things. The poor people who get into the time of trouble will have all they want of it then. I have enough now, and so have you. The Scriptures say that through much tribulation shall we enter the kingdom, and if we pay attention to our duties, we will get enough without taking time to tell them about the time of trouble. The world will not be profited by our telling, either. We do not wish to scare anybody. It is indeed a spectacle, when that kind of suggestion is made by a conflicted person. Were there any earlier works of Miller 1844 disappointment? History shows, there were some. Some that paint a more precise picture than that of Miller. Therefore, Russell did not have any influence with Miller’s 1844 prediction nor did Russell use it as basis for comparison. "When the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat; when the earth and the works that are therein shall be burnt up."   At the present time the blessings of peace seem to be nearly general throughout the nations of the earth. This I deem a very favourable sign. War, however, with its train of abominations, may not finally terminate till about A. D. 1914, or perhaps A. D. 1956; neither do I think that the seventh thousand years, or great Sabbath of the world, or the beginning of Christ's third day, will commence before A. D. 2046 ; and this belief or conclusion I take to be no less deducible from a variety of the prophetic numbers, than from the figurative language employed by Christ concerning the three days, and the three measures of meal, during the time of which the whole world shall be gradually leavened by the kingdom of God.   As I have calculated the prophetical numbers, it will be 206 years from A. D. 1840, before the beginning of the seventh thousand years, or the great Sabbath of the world, when God's rest shall begin to be glorious, and when Christ, that glorious Sun of Righteousness, by the brightness of His coming into those temples, It is indeed sad when people try so hard to end up empty. As stated earlier by an architect of misrepresentation said, it’s an embarrassment. I agree it is.
    • It is worth a simulated launch, I guess—presenting the idea—but I’m glad that it blew up on the pad. It would have been lost on most people. Relatively few catch the implications of anything. They take it at face value—“Space: The final frontier: these are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise—it’s continuing mission: to seek out new world’s, to boldly go where no man has gone before.” On a flight to Damascus, Bill had a vision of such. Some odd fellow that he took for an angel presented the idea to him right there on the Shatner wing. Like Paul, it disoriented him completely for a time, and the other passengers heard of the disturbance, sure enough, but witnessed nothing themselves. As a boy, I never once trembled when they launched a rocket from Cape Canaveral. I always took it in the spirit of advancing technology, advancing exploration. It’s one of the few accomplishments of men that has NOT been quickly put to military use, as airplanes were.  In contrast, WWI was not only perceived by just about everyone, but it was instantly perceived as a negative. Probably that’s what the other—how many were there then—GB members pointed out, sending Bert and his co-astronauts scuttling off to the pantry for a donut. Robocalls from the cloud, on the other hand, ARE perceived as an instant evil, as any time-share owner in the Everglades knows.
    • If you think they use it for their own purposes then why do you donate?  That is not logical. It depends on what you define as own purposes, private purposes, public purposes, necessities, etc.  I think you really should be more thankful to be associated with the organization and what it does for us.
    • My donations are always by check, and written thereon is "for local needs". It's like paying taxes, some of which are used to make hydrogen bombs, and ICBMs. Not my problem. Jesus and the Apostles needed NONE of those things you mentioned, Arauna. If you are NOT inspired of God, as the GB admits they are not ( February 2017 Watchtower), you do need all of those things you mentioned. They are actually essential, as I would freely admit. .... and HEY!, I am just guessing about all of this ... as is everyone else. And Arauna .... did you get NOTHING out of the "Follow Jesus" Assemblies? Jesus set the example . We are either following that example, or ..... WE ARE NOT. The fact of the matter is that the GB DOES use the billions for their own purposes. but, I am, as you stated, "no one to criticize" ... as I do not follow Jesus' example either. If I had that kind of money, I would buy a Chinook double rotor helicopter, instead of Rolex watches, and cartoons of Caleb and Sophia, etc. uh ... for Witnessing on beautiful Pacific Islands, of course ....    
    • Just one question for you:  when you go to meeting or field service you get to use many videos that were made to be easily accessible for all ages and peoples.  Do you have any clue what equipment costs?   Many poor congregations in Africa receive projectors from the organization because they cannot afford it. They do still print bibles and watchtowers etc. Do you think they must remain in the Jurassic age when it comes to using technology or will it be ok by you if they venture to use the newest tech to support the brothers? You have a budget to fulfill your responsibilities at home.....dont you?  Why not broaden out and see that they also need money to provide services in almost 1000 languages?   I think we need a little more gratitude and less criticism...  ALL you see is "billions" which you try to imply are used for their own purposes....  They are always in need of funds to make it stretch further..... because we do get all our spiritual needs fulfilled without cost.  You need not give any donation if you feel they waste it.  You can use all amenities without giving a dime!   
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