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1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Exactly my reply...... that is why it is called "unrighteous riches". 

"Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?"  Luke 16:11

Greek meaning for "unrighteous"unjust; by extension wicked; by implication, treacherous; specially, heathen:—unjust, unrighteous.

Now, your WT quote again, deceptively explaining the meaning for unrighteous riches as physical, earthly - 

"Only Jehovah God and his Son can receive someone into the heavenly Kingdom or the Paradise on earth under that Kingdom. We should diligently cultivate friendship with them by using what material riches we have in supporting Kingdom interests. Our everlasting future will thus be ASSURED when gold, silver, and other material riches fail or perish."

You believe that your use of wicked, treacherous, heathen, unjust...material "riches"/"treasures", to support the organization's "Kingdom interests", will ASSURE YOU ETERNAL LIFE in the Kingdom, where "righteousness" will dwell. 2 Pet 3:13

"Who can bring what is pure...

(eternal life in the "righteous" Kingdom of God

from the impure?

("heathen, wicked" treasure having its source in the world of Satan)

 No one!"  Job 14:4

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, Arauna said:
On 11/6/2019 at 2:08 PM, Matthew9969 said:

[So the engineers and such who planned . . . ] were dropouts who just read a lot of awake magazines?

Definitely not dropouts...... one can keep learning without going to university.  One can get very talented people who have NO degree.......in science or art but still attain an extremely high level of competency. 

Did I mention that my youngest son was accepted to each and every Ivy League university in the United States? Just wanted the excuse to mention that again if I didn't state it before. 😊 His final choices were between MIT, CalTech, Harvard, and he chose Harvard because he also writes/performs music and studies history.

He graduated with his degree in theoretical/engineering physics (with a minor in music) and was almost immediately contacted by another Ivy League university graduate who has worked at each Bethel site in upstate NY. Through this particular circumstance I have come to learn of several more university graduates working at NY Bethels. The engineers and environmental specialists, even IT specialists at various Bethels, have become more and more "infested" with Ivy League graduates. These are not always full-time positions, but are persons added to the team. At one time they were given only a consultant role, or advisory role, and often ignored, but the Society has learned through very expensive mistakes, to give them leadership roles in these teams.

When I was at Bethel in Brooklyn many years ago, a flailing Computer/IT department was just starting up and a lot of expensive mistakes were being made when a couple of brothers with a lot of "spiritual" seniority were chosen to lead the new department. After about a half-million dollars worth of mistakes, they started to ditch the "decision by seniority" paradigm and gave more decisions to a brother who had a high position at IBM, but who was also arrogant to a fault.

And they brought in a new bunch of fresh college graduated kids from around the country. One was a sister that my brother knew from Missouri, and one was a brother I had known from Missouri. (A brother who had not pioneered or even been very active.)  We had a four person room at Bethel and he became one of the four roommates. My roommate would commiserate with the sister and another member of the Computer department about the ridiculous arguments and decisions of the day.

As it turned out, Arauna, you were right. A lot more practical progress was being made from a small team of computer hobbyists from up at the Wallkill Watchtower Farm in upstate NY. My roommate and the sister thought this was hilarious because there was a lot of prejudice against the "farm boys" even though the difference between who got assigned to the farm and who got assigned to Brooklyn was often just as random as a name in a hat.

The "untrained" farm boys actually finished a home-made computer that started to computerize typesetting flawlessly through the APS5. This was a huge breakthrough project that Brooklyn had already wasted half-a-million on.

 

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4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The "untrained" farm boys actually finished a home-made

Thanks for that personal experience and viewpoint.  I have seen (especially in computer field) many brilliant kids. One of my nephews also played music while teaching  himself programming.  He is a firewall programmer (or something very saught after in protection field) without a degree.  

I marvel sometimes at kids who turn out technical machines in poor countries (especially central Africa) where the intellectual and technical landscape is barren. They somehow find books and teach themselves.

My best friend in Africa has a son who manufactures feeding machines for factories (including car factories). He designs and makes them.  I knew him as a boy.  She raised him and his 2 sisters alone and did not have money for secondary education.

I wish all stories turn out like this but unfortunately we do know reality - not all people are innovative.  Some have to go to vocational school to learn how to do a job in order to become employable. 

To be an entrepeneur one needs a skill (self-taught or acquired during secondary education) to provide something of value one can sell.

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College Educations are NOT for the best and brightest, although they can be.

They are for the average Joe and Joanna who has to make a living ... and MUST have degree, or advanced degree to even get INTO their chosen field of endeavor, and out of grinding, soul killing, corrosive, abject poverty that never will end.

The choice for the average person is get a college degree, and LEARN what is necessary, and get a recognized document that PROVES they are proficient, or in most field that are not just low wage, slave labor, grunt work ... they cannot EVER get employed.

Most people on this planet are just average people, and that includes Jehovah's Witnesses, who make it a source of pride to be "humble".

No one EVER gets hired BECAUSE he is "humble".

They get hired because they have marketable skills.

AND CAN PROVE IT.

For those NOT highly motivated and have an aggressive attitude, say the top 15% of humanity ... the ability to get a job and keep a job  not limited to the expression " ..you want fries with that? ..." at subsistence wages or less depends on FORMAL, accredited, and documented education.

Consider the fact that if you are driving your car on a city street, and you have every skill necessary to be a good driver ... all the skills needed ... but you do NOT have a valid driver's license.

There is a word for that.

Pedestrian.

I HAVE BEEN BLIND, TWICE, AND YET WITH MANY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR EACH EYE, I HAVE 20/20 VISION CLOSE UP, AND FAR AWAY, AND IT MAKES LIFE A GREAT JOY.

ALL DAY!

EVERY DAY!

It is no shame to be poor, or on the ragged edge of poverty ... but it is NOTHING to brag about.

... and when someone asks me "you want fries with that ...", I usually reply "Yes, two LARGE orders"

Tankyou berry much.

Much is said about the desirability of a "Simplified Life" ....

Want a simplified life free from stress, fear and constantly scrabbling to survive?

It's EASIER for those fully competent ... and can prove it.

 

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6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

minor in music)

Just wanted to add - it is I interesting that many smart kids also are good in music. Music lights up many parts of the brain in scans.  It is also the last skill to die off in Alzheimers.

I think that training in music teaches discipline and focus and this benefits children in other fields. All children should learn music for a while if possible.  It is remarkable that so many Jews learn music and many play in ensembles (it teaches people to listen to others and work together to produce something with esthetic value).  It is not surprising to me that they have a higher average IQ than other nations.

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2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

It is no shame to be poor,

Agreed. No shame to be working and providing for yourself. The person is taking responsibility as best he can. All work is honourable. 

There is now a new phenomena: Children who are addicted to internet and  games. They still live with parents at age 34, refuse to work or look at a girl etc. No other interest in life than waste away in matrix style fantasy. Met a woman in field service with this problem.

 

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3 hours ago, Arauna said:

It is also the last skill to die off in Alzheimers

Too general a statement and not necessarily true. A personal friend of mine who was a highly talented musician developed Alzheimers. He soon became unable remember any words to songs, then to differentiate chords and how to play instruments. This was soon followed by an aversion to music altogether, although he will communicate in song. There is a difference between skill and talent.

11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

a flailing Computer/IT department

Allan Boyle showed me round the IT workshop when I visited Brooklyn in 1980. I have to admit it was rather like visiting a computer graveyard with electronic carcasses all over the place.

It must be quite a challenge to apply Acts 6:3 in a modern, technical setting. But, somebody appears to have got something right.

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5 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Allan Boyle showed me round the IT workshop when I visited Brooklyn in 1980. I have to admit it was rather like visiting a computer graveyard with electronic carcasses all over the place.

Wow! Then you were one of very few who saw it back in 1980 when it was a makeshift "9th floor" of the 8-story factory building at 117 Adams. I only saw it because I would sometimes give special request tours. I seriously don't believe that more than 50 brothers out of 3,000 New York Bethelites had ever seen it. It was even left off the route of those who did night guard duty, and they provided their own janitorial services. It was not really even gaining traction yet by 1980, and ultimately would not be end-to-end testable until 1985.

Also, back in 1979 and 1980, persons from the Home Art Department got a tour of the APS5 machine that would someday hook up to Wallkill's MEPS system for typesetting. As early as 1978, artists could go down to the "Photoplate" department's large camera darkroom, where they could use a small manual machine to "set" headline type, one letter at a time, exposing it from a negative strip of letters and shining it down onto a piece of film below. This way one could use a calligraphy font for example, and get the letterspacing just right, and then use other darkroom cameras with exposure tricks to produce special effects, to create an outline font, Gaussian blur and drop shadows, for example.

By 1985, it was well tested, and before they declared a success, they wanted to make sure that any of the machines could produce disks to work on any other machine. They had every conceivable accent mark for all languages that the Watchtower was printed in by then, and made a big splash in 1986 by setting several of these machines in branches all over the world. The small team of brothers in Wallkill had a huge success, and all training on the machine would be handled up at the Farm. It was delicious irony that all the experts had been down in Brooklyn for most of this time.

The most important thing is that it "got the lead out." For many decades, all typesetting for the publications had been done with small metal blocks that were lined up the way newspapers had done it, and these columns of blocks created a "mold" that was dipped in hot molten lead, then electroplated with zinc to last a bit longer. Some factory floors literally contained a ton of lead. The presses also were fitted to run with these lead plates, so that probably 25 percent of the factory workers handled lead during some part of the process.

The new typesetting machines could now use a computer keyboard, and film could now be moved directly to "offset" plates made out of film for offset presses. By the early 1980's, no more new letterpress presses would be purchased. Offset was closer to a mimeograph process, but so accurate that you could line up 3 and 4 colors onto the same rolls of paper. (Playboy had been using 5 colors, I learned from one brother in charge of an offset process.) 

5 hours ago, Outta Here said:

It must be quite a challenge to apply Acts 6:3 in a modern, technical setting. But, somebody appears to have got something right.

Sometimes "spirit and wisdom" was deemed to be the equivalent of the "number of years managing a small corner of a factory bureaucracy." Ultimately, a world-class typesetting solution was delivered, by volunteers, and it still works today, 35 years later.

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16 hours ago, Arauna said:

I have seen (especially in computer field) many brilliant kids.

They are children of this period of time. And this is true for all of them, non JW children and JW children.

WT Society can't do nothing to stop children to be "obsessed" about technology and viral life.  That is why WT Society need to make changes (already in process) to make and hold interest of children and young people, and future old people in technology and equipment that will serve for purposes in modern shapes and sorts of worship.   

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On 11/7/2019 at 11:06 PM, Arauna said:

Just wanted to add - it is I interesting that many smart kids also are good in music. Music lights up many parts of the brain in scans.  It is also the last skill to die off in Alzheimers.

I refer to myself as a "Barbarian", because I have a strong streak of cruelty that I must keep suppressed. 

Looking back on my life, I am ashamed that I even tortured my Mother, at times, just for laughs.

My younger sister is 20 years younger than I, and when she was about 3 years old, my Mom bought her a Fisher Price "Corn Popper" toy that a child would push around the house, and the wheel motion made balls inside the clear dome smack into the dome with a loud cracking or popping sound. My sister loved this toy, and pushed it around much of every day for several years, as my Mother worked around the house..

It drove my Mother CRAZY ...but she never stopped it. 

She was a VERY good Mother, and endured much.

You could hear the corn popper anywhere in the house. "POP!, POP!...POPOPOPOP .... POP! ......... ", hour after hour.

After several million impacts on the underside of the dome, the dome clouded up, and you could just barely see the balls inside, but it still made that loud popping noise. Day after Day after Day after Day.

Then, one day, after the wheels wore down, it broke, and my Mom said "Oh thank God ... that thing was driving me crazy!"

With tears of joy, she threw it away.

 

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So, naturally, , I went to the toy store, and got my sister another one .

 

 

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Said that Watchtower: “The humble person acknowledges that everyone is superior to him in some way.—Phil. 2:3, 4.”  Of course. In some way everyone is superior to everyone else. Search for that way, hone in on it like a laser beam, and it will not be so difficult to treat even opponents with respect. “Disagree without being disagreeable” is the catchphrase today. But Professor Dawkins does not have this advantage. Much of his tradition would sway him in just the opposite “survival of the fittest” direction. So he must be given credit for his new, somewhat softer, online personality. Possibly someone who has his best interests at heart—perhaps his wife—said, “Richard, you sure do come across as a cantankerous crank on Twitter,” and he deliberately walked it back. It’s commendable. Now, I don’t think Richard had Jehovah’s Witnesses in mind with his tweet. He probably has formed his views of them through the contributions of their “apostate” contingent, and those views could hardly be blacker. I looked down among his comments to see whether any of those nasties had reared their heads. Perhaps here was an example: “Not entirely true. Extremists usually have their own misinterpretation of scriptures.” I responded to this one: “If “misinterpretation” results in a religion of peace, perhaps it is not a misinterpretation after all. Perhaps the mainline view is a misinterpretation.” Is that not a no-brainer?  Another one, disagreeing with the above tweet: “Actually no. Most extremists do exactly what is written in their book. ‘Misinterpretation’ is used as an argument by believers that cherry pick morals that fit our secular ethics today.” I know this type, too. This is the type that finds slavery in the Bible or war in the Old Testament and rails at the “hypocrisy.” I responded to this fellow as well: “Everything has a historical context and to deliberately ignore such context is to be intellectually dishonest. If our side does it to theirs, we never hear the end of it.” He blew up at this reference to context. Evil is evil, he carried on, across all places and time-frames. These characters are very predictable—you could even write their lines for them and not be too far off. Has “critical thinking” made us all nincompoops? It was once thought the most intelligent thing in the world to consider historical backdrop; one was irresponsible, even deceitful, not to do it. Very well. If he is going to trash, with blinders affixed, the source that I hold dear, I will do the same with his source: “You should turn your critical thinking skills upon Ancient Greece, the definer of it. When time travel is invented, history revisionists will give a friendly wave to American slaveholding forefathers as they race back in time to fetch wicked Greek pedophiles—it was an enshrined value of that world—back in irons.” He was not chastened by this. Hijacking Twitter as his personal courtroom, he cross-examined: “Is the holding and beating of slaves, as described in Exodus, morally acceptable? Yes or no?” I countered: “Is the raping of children as endorsed by Ancient Greek society morally acceptable? Yes or no?” Incredibly, he was not dissuaded. “Last chance!” he shot back. “Is the holding and beating of slaves, as described in Exodus, morally acceptable? Yes or no?” “To the blockheads, I became a blockhead.”—Paul (sort of) —1 Corinthians 9:19-22,” I tweeted back: “Two can play the game of obstinacy. Last chance: Is the rape of children—it was enshrined in Ancient Greek society—morally acceptable? Yes or no?” Then I went away, and when I came back, he had deleted all this tweets so that it was hard for me to reconstruct the thread. However, someone else had pointed out a grave sin I had committed: “Thomas you are guilty of the moral equivalence fallacy.” Am I? I suppose. You can sort of guess by the wording just what that phrase means—I had not heard it before. At least it is in English. I once heard a theologian quip that if there is a Latin phrase and a perfectly clear English phrase that means the same thing, always use the Latin phrase so people will know that you are educated. But my “moral equivalence fallacy” is still is no more than considering historical context, a praiseworthy intellectual technique for all time periods except ours.  Besides, I actually had posted something about slavery long ago. But it is not a topic so simple that it can be hashed out in a few tweets, and so I declined to go there with this fellow, who would debate all the sub-points. If God corrected every human injustice the moment it manifested itself, there would be nothing left. The entire premise of the Bible is that human-rule is unjust in itself and that God allows a period of time for that to be clearly manifested before bringing in his kingdom—the one referred to in the “Lord’s prayer”—to straighten it all out. In the meantime, the very ones who work themselves into a lather at religion “brainwashing” people are livid that God did not brainwash slavery away once humans settled upon it as a fine economic underpinning. If Dawkins’s tweet and my response hangs around long enough before burial in the Twitter feed, I would expect some of our malcontents to observe as they did in Russia, where the only evidence of extremism cited is proclaiming “a religious view of supremacy.” Huge protest will come at how Jehovah’s Witnesses practice shunning and thus “destroy” relationships and even family. But views inevitably translate into consequences and policies. Refusal to “come together” with those who insist on diametrically opposed views is hardly the “extremism” of ISIS—and yet the Russian Supreme Court has declared that it is, with the full backing in principle of those from the ex-JW community—the ones who go crusading, which is perhaps 10%. I’m going to write this up as a post and append it to his thread. Let’s see what happens. Probably nothing, but you never know. Plus, let’s expand on that particular Watchtower some more. The particular article covered was entitled: “Jehovah Values His Humble Servants” (September 2019 issue—study edition) Unlike nearly all religious services, Witness meetings are ones that you can prepare for. You can comment during them. They are studies of the sacred book, not just impromptu rap sessions, acquiescencing to ceremony, or sitting through someone else’s sermon. You can prepare for them, and you are benefited, as in any classroom, when you do. The focus here, as it so often is, is on practical application.  Humility draws persons to us. Haughtiness repels them, and thus makes next to impossible the mantra to “come together.” My own comment, when the time was right, was that haughty people can only accomplish so much—it may be a great deal, for haughty people are often very capable people—but eventually they run up against the fact that nobody else can stand them, and so people are motivated to undercut their ideas, even if they are good ones, out of sheer payback for ugliness. Humble people, on the other hand, may be far less capable individually, but their efforts add up. They know how to cooperate and yield to each other in a way that haughty people do not. Someone else on that Dawkins thread, an amateur wit, played with that them of unlikely extremists: “Jehova's witnesses are peaceful but their extremists are better extremely annoying...” Why fight this? It is a viewpoint. Viewpoints are not wrong, because they are viewpoints—right or wrong doesn’t enter into the equation. Better to roll with it. I was indeed on a roll, and so I tweeted back:  “I will grant that they can be. Still, if you had a choice between a team of JWs approaching your door and a team of ISIS members, you would (hopefully) choose theformer. Those 2 groups, and only those 2 groups are officially declared “extremist” in Russia.” And with that, I included a link to my ebook, “Dear Mr. Putin - Jehovah’s Witnesses Write Russia.” I am shameless in that. No matter how many books I sell, it is not enough. I don’t sell them, anyway. The book is free, a labor of love. It is an application of the theme: “If you have something important to say, don’t hide it behind a paywall.” It is the only, to my knowledge, complete history of events leading up to and beyond the 2017 ban of the Witness organization in Russia. As to the latest developments there, another one was herded off to prison, who, making the best of a sour situation, or perhaps genuinely finding value there, said: "I want to thank … prosecution. I don't just thank you, but thank you very much, because thanks to you my faith has become stronger … I see I'm on the right path." Of course. It is unreasonable to oppose so vehemently a people totally honest, hard-working, and given to peace—and yet the Bible says that such will exactly happen. How can it not serve to strengthen faith?
    • According to scientific knowledge, the entire universe is in two states every day: something becomes and something disappears. Life on Earth is in the same status. I am disappointed with suffer of creatures on Earth, too. And can't connect with "my picture" of God as i accepted through JW Bible interpretations and my own interpretations, then and now. What if we made wrong pictures about Creator? .... based on wrong or failed text? 
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