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On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 11:28 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

What it proves is that when it is clear they have erred, interpreting scripture incorrectly, they admit it in print and move on—the very opposite of the line you and Witness are peddling that they hide their mistakes at all costs.

The only one who says that it is impermissible for humans to err is you. They have never taken that position.

Where do they say they erred?

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6 hours ago, Arauna said:

Yes- you are judging historical sayings it by modern standards and expect perfection. 

All I know is there is no other religion teaching the name of Jehovah all over the earth.

Other Christian denominations believe in the immortality of the soul and believe that Jesus did not put his soul in death (Isaiah 53) . Hence they really do not believe that Jesus really died for all......and only after death  Jesus received immortality as a reward for his faithfulness to his father.

They do not understand that the kingdom will be a real government which will restore the earth......and we should be politically neutral. Most Christian's are quick to vote and grab their guns.... There are tons of other basic teachings which only JWs teach which are crucial to have a good understanding of what God and jesus did for us, so we can build a good relationship with God.  Thanks to the continued preaching efforts of JWs, I learnt the TRUTH.

Whatever the human flaws of our brothers 80 years ago or even 100 years ago, I always remember that Jehovah used Israel in his purpose and they were for sure also a bunch of imperfect men....... why ..... groups of men constantly thought they were better than Moses - and paid the penalty...... similar to what you are constantly doing.  

Moses did not realize that his son should have been circumcised - his wife saved the son's life.  Moses did not know all even though he was the mediator of the new covenant and went into the mountain.  He came back with his face shining, saw the glory of Jehovah as transmitted by angels.  He was also flawed and made mistakes...... 

You only focus on the mistakes and not the undeniable  truths that are taught by JWs. You use the bible and history as a misleading weapon.  I have seen your writings...... you do not fool me.  Nothing honest there but an accuser of our brothers day and night.   

 

 

If that is all you know, then you know very little.

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On 9/29/2019 at 11:26 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

because Judge Rutherford showed lack of "familiarity" with Scripture too, when he made plans to build Beth-Sarim.

Perhaps if you become more familiar with the Watchtower history, you will find, when Rutherford was imprisoned by the behest of the Catholic Church, Bro. Rutherford developed a pulmonary problem in prison. His doctor urged him to live in a clearer climate. Many brothers that considered Rutherford not just an insightful person but a friend as well, built Beth-Sarim for Brother Rutherford. Not the Watchtower, NOT Rutherford.

Your speculation then, becomes impractical. Now if you are suggesting how Brother Rutherford personally "felt" if one day the ancient prophets would suddenly walk on this earth once again? He would offer his house to have them feel welcomed just as those in ancient times offered their homes to weary travelers, I would offer my home for the same reason.

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8 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:
On 9/28/2019 at 1:28 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

What it proves is that when it is clear they have erred, interpreting scripture incorrectly, they admit it in print and move on—the very opposite of the line you and Witness are peddling that they hide their mistakes at all costs.

The only one who says that it is impermissible for humans to err is you. They have never taken that position.

Read more  

Where do they say they erred?

The very comment of mine that you quote gives an example of one. Go back and read it.

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On 10/3/2019 at 5:20 AM, Arauna said:

Whatever the human flaws of our brothers 80 years ago or even 100 years ago, I always remember that Jehovah used Israel in his purpose and they were for sure also a bunch of imperfect men....... why ..... groups of men constantly thought they were better than Moses - and paid the penalty...... similar to what you are constantly doing.  

 

The human flaws continue down to this day. WT doctrine is not truth.   Your own leaders say they make errors in doctrine.  What’s around the corner?   They baited you with truth, then fed you lies called truth. Rev 8:10,11; Heb 12:15  We were warned of captivity to “empty philosophy”, a deviation from the teachings of Christ, but JWs continue drinking it in.  Col 2:8; Matt 24:4,5; Rev 13:10; 18:3

What is preached during the last days to “Israel”?  Matt 10:23

2 Thess 2:3,4:Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.”

Christ calls his servants to expose the man of lawlessness who oppresses the anointed members of Christ’s Body/Temple of God.   This is the message.  Rev 11:1-3   You speak of those who stood up against Moses, as if the organization and its leaders are another "Moses” and the nation of Israel. The comparison is so often made, but its origin is from your leaders; of which I am very sorry.  Moses is so much more in the limelight than Christ Jesus, since the GB compare themselves to Moses as well as the apostles...when necessary to support their spurious role.    It is your leaders who are standing up against the Son of God by replacing the priesthood, with “Gentiles”/elders who “set themselves up” to rule over the anointed Temple of God. 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 13:5-7   My gosh, do you really believe that elders have God’s authority to teach, judge and disfellowship His own priesthood of “kings”? Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 5:9,10

Ezek 44:8; Num 18:7

 And that’s okay with JWs…without considering God’s word; His view of His “special possession” and what to expect of them.   This was Korah’s desire also, to do things his way, not God’s way.  

Your leaders make their rules and regulations totally contradictory of God’s, which includes idolatry toward an earthly organization that you believe brings salvation.  Col 2:20-23  Even through scriptures, that you say you believe whole-heartedly  in, we see that  Christ is salvation, not an earthly organization.  Act 4:12; John 10:7-10  Christ and the Father.  Who are not attached to earthly things. Luke 12:34  Who have an organization, which is the TEMPLE/”144,000”/Bride/New Jerusalem/Holy City.  They have had it since the first century.  Your organization is a little more than a hundred years old and JWs believe it is what God NOW wants?

And you believe God turns a blind eye to all that the Watchtower has done?   He doesn’t. For anyone who has eyes that see, it’s time to get out of the Watchtower.  Matt 24:15,16; Luke 17:26-37  

The Watchtower's existence was foretold by both Daniel and John.  We're here; the fourth Beast/organization has trampled the priesthood, allowed by a false prophet/Beast/Harlot. Rev 13:15; 16:13,14; 17:1  Revelation concerns God's wayward people, NOT Christendom.  And, if you recall, many; no, the majority, in the nation of Israel who continually followed their own thinking and worshiped false gods, lost their lives.  God removed His protection and allowed the nations to step in, causing oppression, and suffering.   Our God and His decrees, His judgment and His laws have not changed, but are fulfilled in Christ - the Head of the Temple of God.  The same Temple that is replaced by an organization in Satan's realm.  

Rev 18:4-8; Rev 19:20

2 Thess 2:9-12:  The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

edited

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On 10/3/2019 at 5:20 AM, Arauna said:

You only focus on the mistakes and not the undeniable  truths that are taught by JWs. You use the bible and history as a misleading weapon.  I have seen your writings...... you do not fool me.  Nothing honest there but an accuser of our brothers day and night.   

 

 

When we make excuses for men who have misled millions with doctrinal lies (because failed doctrine is a lie), who are we supporting; the God of Truth, or the god of the lie?  1 Thess 2:13  When men say they represent Christ, but fail to provide millions of people with true doctrine (“this generation”/thousand years, the true Temple of God…) and we accept their fallacious excuse (Belief Clarified), who are we supporting; Jesus Christ who is Truth, or the god of the lie?  John 8:44-47; 14:6

 

 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their *testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.  Rev 12:10,11

Those of God's people who fully defend God and Christ in truth, by speaking against lies, (their "testimony") are spiritually killed by the "spirit-breathed" Beast/organization.  John 16:2; Rev 13:15   They are spiritually killed/disfellowshipped by the Watchtower organization - "Jehovah's spirit-directed organization".   They refuse to "worship", give any credence, respect or value, to the Beast".  Rev 13:4

They did not love their "lives" in the Beast, more than their love for God, Jesus and Truth.  Thus, they personally cast Satan down.

 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. 18 You will be brought before governors and kings (GB and elders) for My sake, as a *testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

21 “Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.  Matt 10:16-23

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Witness said:

2 Thess 2:9-12:  The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

- He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives

Here i see how Organizational success in: Preaching work, Legal Battles, Worldwide Unity, Building Programs, Technology helped Education ...etc, .... and hard work to be Moral in all things, can be also "weapon" that serve the lie. Not one time, even WT Society publication emphasized, how it is not enough for individual, or whole groups of people, to be nice and honest, moral people, not to lie, steal, kill, etc., or to even have faith in God, but how is most important to worship Him in acceptable way.

... they refused to love the truth and so be saved.  This is very intrigue. How is possible that people, like JW members, refusing to love the truth, when they are so sure how they Have The Truth. They have the truth? This can go to philosophy and some metaphysics. Is it "Truth" some thing that we can to "posses"? Obviously it is inside WT Society. They can "materialize" some supposed "truth" into textual shape of some publication (books or/and magazines). If you get this publication and accept message, than you are in "possesion" of the so called truth. And after some time this "truth" can be replaced with another "truth"( in same manner you replacing old curtain with new one on your window). In means how so called "first truth" came to be "thing" that can be physically put aside or even destroyed. That is how "ownership" is working. Because this sort of "the truth" has not came from God, but it is human Product. If some individual is Creator of something (like "truth" in this case) he is entitled to "posses" it, to sell it, to destroy it.

Here we see difference about who is ownership of something. Human can not "posses" God's Truth. Human can only "posses" own truth and playing with it as they wish.   

Well, we came now to this part of 2 Thess: For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie .  What more you need to be on wrong way, than powerful delusion (send by no one else but that God who you, or JW in this subject, want to worship) This is something to get strong headache. You put your trust in God who sends powerful delusion on you because you are wrongly made conclude how you love the truth, but on contrary, you love your own created picture of image of truth 

Is there any hope? :))

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2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well, we came now to this part of 2 Thess: For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie .  What more you need to be on wrong way, than powerful delusion (send by no one else but that God who you, or JW in this subject, want to worship) This is something to get strong headache. You put your trust in God who sends powerful delusion on you because you are wrongly made conclude how you love the truth, but on contrary, you love your own created picture of image of truth 

Is there any hope? :))

I wondered  the same thing about 6 years ago, when just leaving the WT. Definitely, it can give a person a "strong headache"!    What I realized when it was pointed out to me, is that the answer is right in this set of scriptures.  Satan contrives the delusion, not God.  "The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works.God "sends" the delusion by allowing it to happen.  He allowed Satan to test Job's integrity, by removing the protective "hedge" around him.  Job 1:9-12   And, since Satan demands to sift each one of us as "wheat", God allows it.  Luke 22:31  

I'm taking the liberty to post my question and the answer I received.   I hope it helps alleviate the headache.  :)

http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/05/who-is-to-blame.html

 

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