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Lies and slander-The distortion of facts

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                                                 Lies and slander
                                                   image.jpeg
"Woe to those who say that good is bad and evil is good, to those who put darkness for light and light for darkness, those who bitterly bitter and sweet
to bitter, woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and wise in their sight! "
The Bible Isaiah 5: 20-21 TMN


The distortion of facts

All facts are distorted and manipulated, as follows:

A Christian Jehovah's Witness exercises the profession of maternal guard: it is "the sect" which intervenes in the educational field to enlist the children.

A Jehovah's Witness works in the public administration, it is "the sect" that infiltrates the state or the medical field.

 The Witnesses provide their voluntary help during disasters (for example floods in the south of France), "the sect" makes of "the recovery of victims in situation of distress".

Witnesses teach their neighbors the Bible, they engage in "mental manipulation" and use "indoctrination methods". Yet they do nothing more than follow in the footsteps of Jesus who "walked from town to town and from village to village, preaching and announcing the good news of the kingdom of God, and the twelve were with him" (Acts 5:42 ) TMN

Whatever the Witnesses do, there must be bad motives behind their action. Did not we proceed in the same way with Jesus?  

What the Bible says :

Woe to those who say that good is evil and evil is good, to those who put darkness for light and light for darkness, to those who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter ! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and wise before their face! (Isaiah 5: 20-21) TMN

The presumptuous ones smeared me with lies. As for me, with all my heart I will observe your orders. (Psalm 119: 69) TMN

 

Sources of information

most of the time second-hand information, erroneous, misunderstood, freely interpreted.

watch_tower.jpgIt is common for opponents to use statements by Russel (1870-1914) or Rutherford (1920-1940) and refer to 1910 or 1920 publications, "forgetting" subsequent updates or rectifications.

As if the understanding of the scriptures had frozen at these times.

It escapes them (?) As modern Jehovah's Witnesses refine their understanding of the scriptures over time. They have, without difficulty, recognized past mistakes.

What the Bible says :

"The light has come to the righteous, and the gladness to those who have the right heart." (Ps. 97:11) TMN

"The path of the righteous is like the light of dawn, the brightness of which increases until daylight." But "the path of the wicked is like darkness: they do not know what they will stumble upon". (Prov 4:18, 19) Osty Bible.

"And as for you, O Daniel, make these words secret and seal the book until the time of [the] end. Many will roam here and there, and [true] knowledge will become abundant. "(Daniel 12: 4) TMN

 

The sifting of every word or phrase in Jehovah's Witnesses' writings

The exercise consists of finding a sentence or an affirmation, taking it out of context and demonstrating: since there is one or more errors, it is that everything is wrong!

Unmatched as argument. As if the Witnesses had to be perfect and infallible!

But do they have the same look towards all? Opponents are careful not to apply the method to themselves.

As Jesus said, "For it is with the judgment that you judge that you will be judged, and it is with the measure you measure that we will measure for you." Why do you look at the straw that is in your brother's eye, but do not you consider the beam in your eye? " (Matthew 7: 2-3) TMN

Recall that the pope is supposed to be "infallible".

This does not prevent him from being part of the Hitherian youth and lacking courage in his statements.

During his quick visit to Auschwitz on May 31, 2006 Benedict XVI deplored the absence of God in this place. It would have been better to regret the silence of the leaders of the church and to condemn it.

Let us note that the abominable acts committed by the "official" religions (inquisition - with its terrible tortures, crusades - with their massacres, ...) are without measure with the grievances which are made today to the Jehovah's Witnesses.

This does not prevent these religions - and our opponents - from playing the great moralizers and despising certain "sects".

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Nothing is as it seems, in the Watchtower organization.

“Coming to Him, a living stone—rejected by men but chosen and valuable to God— you yourselves, as living stones, are being built into a spiritual house for a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood,
a holy nation a people for His possession,
so that you may proclaim the praises
of the One who called you out of darkness
into His marvelous light.”  1 Pet 2:5,9

w02 8/1 p. 13-14  “Representing the royal priesthood are appointed *elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Why? Because, through his holy spirit, Jehovah has appointed the older men to their positions.” 

“Didn’t you banish the priests of YHVH, the descendants of Aaron and the Levites, and make your own priests like the peoples of other lands do? Whoever comes to ordain himself with a young bull and seven rams may become a priest of what are not gods.” 2 Chron 13:9

The Lord said to Aaron, “You, your sons, and your ancestral house will be responsible for sin against the sanctuary. You and your sons will be responsible for sin involving your priesthood. 

"You are to guard the sanctuary and the altar so that wrath may not fall on the Israelites againLook, I have selected your fellow Levites from the Israelites as a gift for you, assigned by the Lord to work at the tent of meeting. But you and your sons will carry out your priestly responsibilities for everything concerning the altar and for what is inside the veil, and you will do that work. I am giving you the work of the priesthood as a gift, but an *unauthorized person  who comes near the sanctuary will be put to death.”  Num 18:1,5-7

“Don’t you yourselves know that you are God’s sanctuary and that the Spirit of God lives in you?  If anyone destroys God’s sanctuary, God will destroy him; for God’s sanctuary is holy, and that is what you are.”  1 Cor 3:16,17

“Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him: We ask you, brothers, not to be easily upset in mind or troubled, either by a spirit or by a message or by a letter as if from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy[b] (“rebellion”) comes first and the *man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.” 

w02 8/1 p. 13-14    “Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking *elders! Their record of faithful service, often over many decades, inspires our trust.”

4 “He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s sanctuarypublicizing that he himself is God.”  2 Thess 2:1-4

"The *presumptuous ones smeared me with lies. As for me, with all my heart I will observe your orders." (Psalm 119: 69) TMN

 “The Disgusting Thing Standing in a Holy Place, Matt 24:15” – 4womaninthewilderness blogspot

 

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"Woe to those who say that good is bad and evil is good, to those who put darkness for light and light for darkness, those who bitterly bitter and sweet
to bitter, woe to those who are
*wise in their own eyes, and wise in their sight! "
The Bible Isaiah 5: 20-21 TMN

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On 9/28/2019 at 9:51 PM, salomon said:

                                                 Lies and slander
                                                   image.jpeg
"Woe to those who say that good is bad and evil is good, to those who put darkness for light and light for darkness, those who bitterly bitter and sweet
to bitter, woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and wise in their sight! "
The Bible Isaiah 5: 20-21 TMN


The distortion of facts

All facts are distorted and manipulated, as follows:

A Christian Jehovah's Witness exercises the profession of maternal guard: it is "the sect" which intervenes in the educational field to enlist the children.

A Jehovah's Witness works in the public administration, it is "the sect" that infiltrates the state or the medical field.

 The Witnesses provide their voluntary help during disasters (for example floods in the south of France), "the sect" makes of "the recovery of victims in situation of distress".

Witnesses teach their neighbors the Bible, they engage in "mental manipulation" and use "indoctrination methods". Yet they do nothing more than follow in the footsteps of Jesus who "walked from town to town and from village to village, preaching and announcing the good news of the kingdom of God, and the twelve were with him" (Acts 5:42 ) TMN

Whatever the Witnesses do, there must be bad motives behind their action. Did not we proceed in the same way with Jesus?  

What the Bible says :

Woe to those who say that good is evil and evil is good, to those who put darkness for light and light for darkness, to those who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter ! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and wise before their face! (Isaiah 5: 20-21) TMN

The presumptuous ones smeared me with lies. As for me, with all my heart I will observe your orders. (Psalm 119: 69) TMN

 

Sources of information

most of the time second-hand information, erroneous, misunderstood, freely interpreted.

watch_tower.jpgIt is common for opponents to use statements by Russel (1870-1914) or Rutherford (1920-1940) and refer to 1910 or 1920 publications, "forgetting" subsequent updates or rectifications.

As if the understanding of the scriptures had frozen at these times.

It escapes them (?) As modern Jehovah's Witnesses refine their understanding of the scriptures over time. They have, without difficulty, recognized past mistakes.

What the Bible says :

"The light has come to the righteous, and the gladness to those who have the right heart." (Ps. 97:11) TMN

"The path of the righteous is like the light of dawn, the brightness of which increases until daylight." But "the path of the wicked is like darkness: they do not know what they will stumble upon". (Prov 4:18, 19) Osty Bible.

"And as for you, O Daniel, make these words secret and seal the book until the time of [the] end. Many will roam here and there, and [true] knowledge will become abundant. "(Daniel 12: 4) TMN

 

The sifting of every word or phrase in Jehovah's Witnesses' writings

The exercise consists of finding a sentence or an affirmation, taking it out of context and demonstrating: since there is one or more errors, it is that everything is wrong!

Unmatched as argument. As if the Witnesses had to be perfect and infallible!

But do they have the same look towards all? Opponents are careful not to apply the method to themselves.

As Jesus said, "For it is with the judgment that you judge that you will be judged, and it is with the measure you measure that we will measure for you." Why do you look at the straw that is in your brother's eye, but do not you consider the beam in your eye? " (Matthew 7: 2-3) TMN

Recall that the pope is supposed to be "infallible".

This does not prevent him from being part of the Hitherian youth and lacking courage in his statements.

During his quick visit to Auschwitz on May 31, 2006 Benedict XVI deplored the absence of God in this place. It would have been better to regret the silence of the leaders of the church and to condemn it.

Let us note that the abominable acts committed by the "official" religions (inquisition - with its terrible tortures, crusades - with their massacres, ...) are without measure with the grievances which are made today to the Jehovah's Witnesses.

This does not prevent these religions - and our opponents - from playing the great moralizers and despising certain "sects".

Jesus didn't need to depend on constantly changing light, new light, or changed his mind in mid-sermon.

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On 9/28/2019 at 11:51 PM, salomon said:

This does not prevent these religions - and our opponents - from playing the great moralizers and despising certain "sects

The founder of the BITE model that is used to label whoever thinks out of the mainstream as a “cult”  has just written a book entitled: “The Cult of Trump” about how that one employs aspects of mind control.

When you think half the country has fallen under the influence of a cult, it is evidence, in my view, that you have drunk too much of the Kool-Aid yourself.

It is also evidence that the entire BITE anti-cult model is no more than a leftest political philosophy that attempts to scientifically endorse a culture of victimhood and move it into protected status.

That’s not to say that everyone who doesn’t like Jehovah’s Witnesses is a leftest. But those who don’t like them on the basis that they are a “cult” usually are.

“Victimhood” overplayed is an odious thing. No one ever made a bad decision. When that appears to be the case, it is only because that one has been misled.

No one has ever changed goals in life simply in the course of human development. When that appears to be the case, it is only because that one has been misled.

And yet these same ones, who do no wrong themselves unless it can be blamed upon someone else, are the first to cry how others should be “held accountable” and must “take responsibility” for anything not according to their wish list of looking at things.

What a culture of crybabies anti-cultism spawns.

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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

What a culture of crybabies anti-cultism spawns.

I've noticed that everything seems to get called a "disorder" now. As if it's never the person's choice, but something they were born with. For example on the news yesterday the woman was talking about a plain old simple drug addict, and said he was suffering from "substance abuse disorder". Do these people really become drug addicts because they have no choice?

Similarly, why don't we call those who chose to be in a "cult", and then complain about it, something like "wimp disorder" or "don't have their own brain disorder". That way, they really can't help it, and shouldn't blame the cult. Yes, leave those cults alone!

 

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    • Just for interest, here is an interview with prince Andrew. It's acutely embarrassing the excuses  he makes and the denials....  
    • Yes. Just watched it. I like that you talk about the broad effects of the impact whistleblowing has had in this particular area. It's not just the Witnesses, but many institutions. Many guilty people would have probably got away with sexual abuse 20 years ago, but not so much today. Even royalty have been put under the microscope. History is rife with stories of rich dirty old men having sex with underage girls and getting away with it. When enough people make noise, it can't be ignored.
    • Maybe this was in the sense of these "bad elders" rejecting the counsel given by "good elders" who were quoting Bible books and the Mosaic Law (as transmitted through angels), or these "bad elders" were speaking out against sayings of Jesus and inspired writings of the apostles, as if they held no value to this time they were in, so many decades after Jesus originally spoke them. Also (less likely) Jude quotes the book of Enoch, specifically a part about the judgment of angels, and he appears to refer to another book about the "Assumption of Moses." We don't know how much more of those books were accepted other than the portions referenced, but these books were part of a genre that gave names to dozens of angels and referenced many more hierachies of thousands of angels. Good point! I doubt it. There are too many scriptures, and too much context that shows what Paul was up against in trying to get the congregations to accept and understand the concept of "grace" or "undeserved kindness." (Along with "law" "legalism" "works" "righteousness" "sin" "conscience" etc.) Paul had to write chapters, nearly whole long letters, on the subject, and it even put him for a short while at odds with the Jerusalem council. Probably it is sometimes. But the whistleblowing of the CSA cases all over the world have drawn attention to a lot of things that go on in the world where the abused victims felt powerless. In many institutions, including once-hostile work environments, this is actually changing for the better. The threat of monetary sanctions has made even rich men who could once get away with anything (as Trump claimed), think twice. It has definitely helped in some suburban schools and even corporations I once worked for. I suspect that many priests and elders who once thought they would get away with anything are now more apt to think again before abusing persons.
    • The old method of handling this was to use the expression "present truth." Many adventists including Seventh Day still use the expression. It's based on a mistranslation of 2 Peter 1:12 where the KJV said: Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. The tendency among 19th century Adventists was to see a "chronology" element or "time" element in the English expression that did not exist in the original Greek. Therefore, the idea was that: even when in the midst of learning or teaching falsehood, it was still "present truth" at the time, and what is now "present truth" could turn out to be false in the future, but it will always have been "present truth" because it's always the best we had at the time. From the Greek, this is better translated as "the truth that is present in you" (American Standard and NWT).  A similar rush to see a time element in the English translation was done by Barbour and Russell and others who had been associated with Adventists. Here's an example from Leviticus: (Leviticus 26:28) 28 I will intensify my opposition to you, and I myself will have to chastise you seven times for your sins. This was originally the primary source for Russell's 7 times = 2,520 years, and the 7 times of Nebuchadnezzar's dream about his own insanity was only a secondary source. But we have since learned that Leviticus here didn't refer to chronological "times" but the sense was "7 times as much" as in "I will hit you twice as hard, or three times as hard, or seven times as hard." This was already in the context, but chronologists and numerologists rarely notice the context until they have already formed a time related doctrine. (Leviticus 26:18-21) . . .“‘If even this does not make you listen to me, I will have to chastise you seven times as much for your sins. . . . 21 “‘But if you keep walking in opposition to me and refuse to listen to me, I will then have to strike you seven times as much, according to your sins. Now that we have noticed this, we have been stuck with using Nebuchadnezzar as if his wicked Gentile kingdom somehow represented Christ's Messianic non-Gentile kingdom. (Another contradiction between 1914 and the Bible.) We still tend to make a "chronology word" out of things having to do with time when we translate the Greek word for time as "appointed time" instead of what might better be translated as "opportune time." Note that it's the exact same word "time" in these two verses: (Ephesians 5:16) 16 buying out the opportune time for yourselves, because the days are wicked. (Luke 21:24) . . .and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled. Neither the word opportune nor appointed is found in the Greek, only the word time. But the more typical meaning is "opportunity" as in: Will you find the opportunity to do this? Will you find the time to do this? Not: Will you find the appointed day and hour to do this? We have added a more specific chronological sense that usually isn't necessary in the Greek.  
    • Elon Musk shows himself to rather out of touch with science. He is using his money to make a name for himself by driving forward with some outlandish plans. He is an embarrassment to his own employees sometimes when he quotes pseudo-scientific ideas that have been obsolete for decades. (One of these was the idea of using nuclear explosions to make Mars inhabitable.) But his optimism to get employees to "make it happen" will drive some scientific progress in spite of himself. Even here, however, he has often just attached his name to some idea that came out of Japan or China or some US or European scientific think tank that was never associated with Musk. He attaches his own unrealistic timelines to these ideas, however, and then begins to lose credibility.  This particular idea has some merit, but there is a lot more expense in creating the infrastructure than people realize. There is the mining of the elements that go into solar cells, the manufacture of solar panels, the trucking of materials to such a solar hub, the infrastructure to build out the lines from the hub across the USA. Currently these types of expenses reduce the ROI value of this particular type of renewable energy so much that it makes carbon (coal/oil/petroleum) seem much more desirable for generating power, and for which an infrastructure is already in place. When viable, I would like to see how close to Hoover Dam this could be built to re-use some power lines that emanate from there, and already reach to many southwest states. Perhaps an even better idea would be to find a place near Yuma or Mexicali, so that half of the power would be used to desalinate water for Mexico and the US by piping saltwater from the Gulf of California, then freshwater back out with a mountain or salt and minerals as a byproduct.    
    • I think that's exactly correct. But we know that as Christians we are still under under a duty to question, reflect, test, prove, meditate, and "make sure of all things." We must do this even if it were an angel out of heaven giving us the interpretation, according to Galatians 1 and 2. And Paul specifically applied that thought to the way the Galatian congregation(s) should have tested and made sure of the incorrect counsel coming from council of elders at Jerusalem, because evidently some were too quick to accept that counsel just because it came from those who seemed to be pillars in the congregation. To Paul, he said, it didn't matter who those men were, or what they seemed to be, and he even included Peter, James and John in that idea of who to question. John himself later wrote that we should test the inspired utterances (1 John 4:1). I have. And the Watchtower has also claimed to have found MANY previous misinterpretations of prophecy which interpretations they said came from God, and yet warranted a redefinition of that interpretation. In fact I quoted you one of several places where the Watchtower has admitted exactly what you say you have not found: *** ws17 June p. 13 par. 16 Set Your Heart on Spiritual Treasures *** At times, our understanding of a Bible prophecy or a scripture may be adjusted. When that happens, it is important to take the time to study the adjustment and meditate on it. (Acts 17:11; 1 Timothy 4:15) We not only need to understand the main differences between the old understanding and the new one, but we also need to pay attention to the details of the new understanding. I've seen you accuse others here of blasphemy, when they defended the Bible, and yet you are able to make a statement such as that! Yes, certain Bible Student congregations continued to follow the Barbour/Russell advent timeline, which included Rutherford and the Watchtower editorial board, up until about 1927, with some intermediate adjustments over time to what Russell had said about 1914, and 1915, and with some brand new ideas about 1918, and 1925. Russell's concerted effort to "finally understand his own chronology" barely changed a thing, except for a few changes to some Great Pyramid measurements, and some vacillations between 1914 and 1915, and a change around 1904 to push the period of tribulation to the few months after 1914 instead of the few months (or years) before 1914. I would agree that Edgar's pyramid scheme hardly influenced Russell. That's because Edgar only wanted to get even more details on the subject, and completed most of this work after Russell had already published all he had to say on the Pyramid. Also, Russell was already satisfied enough with the details he had borrowed from Joseph Seiss. You say: "Perhaps, that is where the confusion lies" but there is no need for any confusion at all. Russell's works include all the necessary details, and they are all easy to find. If we wish to discuss Russell's own published views, we don't need to worry about the many other groups that sprung from Barbour's and Russell's teachings. I think I know what you are talking about. I think the admins or moderators here consider it spamming when someone overuses a long string of a dozen or more dislike emojis at the rate of one per minute on the posts of people they dislike, and a string of a dozen or more "like" emojis at the rate of about one per minute on their own accounts of different names. I think once a person is caught doing this once, it's dangerous to keep doing this with even with a smaller string of up-votes and down-votes. Sometimes the give-away to the game is when the down-vote is simply a negative response to a Scripture or a direct quote from the Watchtower.
    • I would like to expand on the above quote. New truth/old truth......in the same WT in the preceding par (15) it says; "We discovered some priceless truths when we first began to associate with God’s people. These could well be described as “old,” in that we have known and appreciated them from the beginning of our Christian course. What do such precious truths include? We learned that Jehovah is our Creator and Life-Giver and that he has a purpose for mankind. We also learned that God lovingly provided the ransom sacrifice of his Son so that we might be freed from sin and death. We further learned that his Kingdom will end all suffering and that we have the prospect of living forever  in peace and happiness under Kingdom rule". So the "old" truths here are defined as old from the point of view of age. These are the backbone, basics, elementary, fundamental or key doctrines as JWI describes at the outset of this thread. These have not changed. Then there is the "old" as defined in par 16; "old understanding". So we are not talking about any new truth as in newly discovered truth, but an adjustment or new understanding of what has already been taught previously. In this case it really doesn't make sense to call something old truth and new truth because truth can only be one. If it's not truth, its falsehood. So in my opinion, unless something is "old" established truth, the backbone of our Biblical doctrine, then anything else that falls into the "viewpoint" category of "truth" (or the shadow that is thrown) should not have to be accepted as the "absolute Truth", and should it really become "a part of our collection of Bible truths"? (Of course with any kind of truth, whether relativism, universalism (absolute truth) etc. one can go into great depths of the philosophy behind these concepts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth) (Interestingly, JWI WT quote is from the simplified version. The normal study version does not say "a part of our collection of Bible truths" , but "our own treasure store".)        
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