Jump to content

Matthew9969

And you think the Trinity is confusing?

Topic Summary

Created

Last Reply

Replies

Views

Matthew9969 -
Space Merchant -
14
320

Top Posters


Recommended Posts

Yeah, I believe Matthew wants a heated debate not a logical answer, because he knows it. These 'men', this "faithful and discreet slave, is not and could not be one man, just as Moses found out leading Israel. They are united in thought and action. Unified in watching over the Master's belongings, and just as there were those who gave dispute to Moses, there will be those who will dispute these 'men', for they are 'men', frail and imperfect, even with their hope of the heavenly reward. What we think about their hope, they could careless, what they do toward us is their responsibility for they are accountable to Jehovah, never ever to any of us, whether we like them or not. So let's debate about something else!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, John Houston said:

Unified in watching over the Master's belongings, and just as there were those who gave dispute to Moses, there will be those who will dispute these 'men', for they are 'men', frail and imperfect, even with their hope of the heavenly reward.

 JWs!  WHY do you continually make the comparison of the GB to Moses, an inspired prophet who received messages directly from God?  Moses spoke of the prophet to come, as God’s Son! It is HIS teachings that we are to adhere to:

17 “And the Lord said to me: ‘What they have spoken is good. 18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 19 And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him.”   Deut 18:17-19

If there were to be 7,8,12 men to lead God’s people in the remaining days as Moses did, where does Jesus Christ fit in?  The organization has raised up another “Moses”; one who presents teachings that repeatedly fall short of pure truth.

 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, (the organization) that prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

Your “frail and imperfect men” sit in the seat of Moses.  They have put themselves there, and are comfortable misleading all JWs to believe it.  Now I clearly see a distinct connection of “false Messiahs” that deceive the “saints”/anointed and companions in the last days, as the organization’s GB. 

For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.  (“elect” – “chosen by God” – Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:9)  Matt 24:24

If they are to mislead God’s chosen people, they must also speak of Jesus and some truth, right?  Paul warned that Jesus’ teachings would be twisted:

But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to ChristFor if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

“other than the Jesus we preached”the apostles never compared themselves to Moses.  They spoke continually of Christ and the Father. 

“a different gospel”the WT has become your safety net, your salvation.  Never did the apostles preach “organization” as one’s salvation.  On the contrary, they taught:

“Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”  Acts 4:12

These "frail and imperfect men" do not have a "hope" they will be in heaven - they state they WILL be in heaven.  

Gerrit Losch:  “To appreciate the extent of Jehovah’s and Jesus’ trust in the faithful slave reflect on what he has promised its members. He has promised them immortality and incorruption. Soon, JUST BEFORE ARMAGEDDON the remaining members of the slave will be taken to heaven.”

Are these men truly false messiahs?  Yes. They have already judged themselves as worthy to rule in heaven.  From what I read in the scriptures, that judgement is left in the hands of the true Messiah.  Matt 25:14-30

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, John Houston said:

Yeah, I believe Matthew wants a heated debate not a logical answer, because he knows it. These 'men', this "faithful and discreet slave, is not and could not be one man, just as Moses found out leading Israel. They are united in thought and action. Unified in watching over the Master's belongings, and just as there were those who gave dispute to Moses, there will be those who will dispute these 'men', for they are 'men', frail and imperfect, even with their hope of the heavenly reward. What we think about their hope, they could careless, what they do toward us is their responsibility for they are accountable to Jehovah, never ever to any of us, whether we like them or not. So let's debate about something else!

Got it. I really don't like going into conversation of some peeps not being aware what "1" is and how it doesn't literally equal "3", as in.

6 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

The judges of Israel were not called faithful and discreet slaves. The trinity isn't confusing at all to true Christians. But 7 men who claim to be one man, I'll expand this even further, these 7 men claim to be 1 man and also claim to be Jehovah, now that is out of this world weird doctrine.

But you are saying this. I haven't seen or recall the governing body claiming to be one man (but elsewhere you said God/Jehovah).

Actually it is confusing. For instance, Jesus is said to be the mediator of God as seen in 1 Timothy 2 and elsewhere. If he is God then who is the really the mediator? Second, who sent the angel to Joseph if Jesus was still a baby Lastly several instances of Jesus not knowing something and or is fearful, let alone who was he pleading to or praying to. Or can God be anointed or Only Begotten.The list goes on?

Majority of the people I meet in the ministry are put off by the Trinity, even non religious people, who even made fun of Christians because of it. To make matters worse, people went on doing their own research to find out the truth about Jehovah God and the one he anointed (Christ/Messiah) - Jesus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/25/2019 at 8:57 AM, Matthew9969 said:

The judges of Israel were not called faithful and discreet slaves.

There were several judges, not just one, as there are with several Apostles, Pastors, Priests, etc. The logic you push is the fact that the faith group as a collective is one person, when truly that isn't the case, hence it can be understood by the sarcasm posed by the other commentor.

On 10/25/2019 at 8:57 AM, Matthew9969 said:

The trinity isn't confusing at all to true Christians.

Unfortunately it is. So much as so that True Christians can see through the farce, as in finding out false Bible verses that is used to support the Trinity has been exposed to be spurious, and or using Sharp Rule's to justify the belief, twisting the words of Apostles.

True Christians recognize that the early Christians, to their core, were Suborinationist that have no holding to any creeds and or beliefs that came after, that is, until Trinitarianism was forced upon them, and over time real Christians stepped up, and some of them were targets and even became victim to those who support an incorrect teaching.

On 10/25/2019 at 8:57 AM, Matthew9969 said:

But 7 men who claim to be one man, I'll expand this even further, these 7 men claim to be 1 man and also claim to be Jehovah, now that is out of this world weird doctrine.

And yet when this was asked of you by the latter, it was unfounded.

That being said, all faiths have a single and or several religious leaders, you are no different. None, expect, Kairos, claim to be God and or equal to God in any sense. The idea of Restorationist claiming to be Jehovah or Yahweh is as alien as a blizzard in the south.

On 10/25/2019 at 8:57 AM, Matthew9969 said:

now that is out of this world weird doctrine.

Such doctrines do exist, but it is unheard of concerning Restorationism, Islam, Unitarianism, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Forum Statistics

    61,655
    Total Topics
    114,352
    Total Posts
  • Member Statistics

    16,501
    Total Members
    1,592
    Most Online
    didiervaissiere
    Newest Member
    didiervaissiere
    Joined




  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I voted your remark "sad" because it truly is. It is a meaningless non-sequitur with no relevance ... which you think is profound.
    • Maybe you jw's will get lucky and your hero Hitler will start ruling again.
    • Trump is a pugilist, fully capable of vulgarity. It doesn’t really bother me. In some regards, it is refreshingly candid. It is not for nothing that the Bible calls the political nations “beasts.” They behave that way—ripping and tearing at each other and indeed, at anyone who gets in their way. So I am not put off by someone who drops the pretense and carries on to call a spade a spade. As much as ones might like the facade of being “presidential,” and of respecting the “dignity” of fellow world leaders, ought they not produce results to earn that respect? The hospital operating room can expect awed dignity when it routinely save lives—conducting the most delicate of procedures. But if the results degenerate to indistinguishable from that of a butcher shop, surely that aura of admiration will fade. “Laws are like sausages. It’s better not to see them being made,” is the old saying, and it is the butcher shop comparison that wins out over the precision operating room. It almost does my heart good to see Trump brawling with his political counterparts as they do their utmost to preserve “dignity.”  Moreover, you would almost expect Jehovah’s (American) servants to see that. They don’t because they truly are apolitical. They follow politics hardly at all, and there is a fair number of them that consider even a comment about the topic as akin to ripping a loud one at the concert hall—it is just gauche—it is as though deliberately contaminating the soufflé with the street rock salt. The JW Governing Body works hard to keep the squabbles of politics out of the congregation and to safeguard its neutrality.  Keeping truly neutral is not easy. Geoffrey Jackson reflects on how (Australian) candidates of his youth offered dramatically different proposals regarding the military draft—a matter that would affect him greatly. Updating his struggle to the present—adapting it to brothers today who might be personally advantaged or disadvantaged by the proposals of a given political figure—he ventured on how some might truly strive to be neutral and yet in the back of their head was the thought: “I hope that idiot doesn’t come into power.” He said it about two years ago. It is impossible for me not to wonder what “idiot”—if there was one—he had in mind.  Of course, Witnesses are politically neutral due to their advocacy for God’s kingdom—the one of the Sermon on the Mount—“thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.” “God’s will is done in heaven,” I tell the householder as I glance upward. “I mean, I guess it is—surely he has it all running smoothly up there—but it sure isn’t done on earth. Pockets of it here and there may be, but nobody would ever say that the world runs that way it does today according to God’s will. According to the prayer, we should not expect that until the kingdom comes.” Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t go campaigning for human governments because they are announcing God’s government which will tackle and solve the problems human governments consistently flounder on. If Witnesses today did reflect on national politics—and the particulars are replicated in many nations—they might reflect that Trump’s enemies are the “one world government” people of the humanist variety—180 degrees apart from the one world government of the “God’s kingdom” variety. They are the humanists who would rise above national boundaries to blur or even erase them. They are humanists who yet pursue the dream of the League of Nations, reinvigorated after WWII as the United Nations. A worldwide blending of peoples and their interests into one common government by man, incorporating whatever is the humanistic thinking holding sway at the time. These ones fully expect those of government (largely themselves) to be granted dignity in light of the noble task they have assumed—it doesn’t matter if praiseworthy results are slow to come—it is the intention that matters. The common working people know it is a crock. They see their own interests being sold out for the loftier “higher” interests of these they would call the “elites.” Their economic interests are tamped down. Their moral values are shoved aside. They are astounded, to take an example, to think that biological differences should not determine male and female, and dismayed to see the view that completely defies their common sense and all of recorded history take the world by storm under the new tidal wave of humanists. They don’t think these guys deserve any dignity at all, so when a photo-shopped Trump is bare-knuckle boxing with the CNN moniker (bastion of world-government think), they love it, and they also love it that the dignified crowd are aghast. ....To highlight the GB’s challenge in encouraging all to stay on the same neutral page, I wrote the following in No Fake News but Plenty of Hogwash: “They just about succeeded in their mission to re-instill complete neutrality – they were alllmmoooost there, when along came the summer Olympics in Rio. On the second day of the Olympics, I mentioned to Tom Pearlsnswine in the field ministry that Hillary had worn a bright pants suit. “Christians are no part of the world!” he rebuked me. On the third day of the Olympics, at the Kingdom Hall, I told him that Trump had tied his shoe. “We must fix our eyes on Jerusalem above!” he said. On the fifth day of the Olympics, I dropped by his home while he was watching the games on TV. He screamed: “Look at that medal count, Tommy!” he shouted. “We’re cleaning up!”  
  • Popular Now

  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online (See full list)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.