Only jws will be saved

[Shiwiii]

2 minutes ago, Anna said:

WT is not making the point that only baptised JWS will be saved.

they most certainly are and have stated such many times. You can deny it all you want but it is in print. 

8 minutes ago, Anna said:

It is saying that you can't sit on the fence because if there is nothing preventing you from getting baptised and you don't get baptised, you need to realize (in this context) that if you don't ,it will cost you your life, as oposed to someone who is ignorant of baptism.

Definition of context: the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect. - Dictionary.com

This means that what is said prior to a statement, forms the idea behind the thought or meaning. Nothing in the printed publications give the idea you claim here when the wt states that one must be a baptized jw. 

also to add, why is Tony Morris instructing people to withhold a drivers license from a child until they get baptized? Shouldn't this be a choice by the child once the child is no longer a child? 

[Anna]

3 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

 

Definition of context: the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect. - Dictionary.com

This means that what is said prior to a statement, forms the idea behind the thought or meaning. Nothing in the printed publications give the idea you claim here when the wt states that one must be a baptized jw. 

It most certainly  does: "This means trying to motivate people to make the truth their own by applying what they learn, dedicating their life to Jehovah, and getting baptized. Only then will they survive Jehovah’s day".—

Obviously getting baptised cannot apply unless they have first  made the truth their own, applied what they learn, and dedicated their life to Jehovah.

 

[Shiwiii]

Just now, Anna said:

It most certainly  does: "This means trying to motivate people to make the truth their own by applying what they learn, dedicating their life to Jehovah, and getting baptized. Only then will they survive Jehovah’s day".—

Obviously getting baptised cannot apply unless they have first  made the truth their own, applied what they learn, and dedicated their life to Jehovah.

 

but you disregard the part " ONLY THEN WILL THEY SURVIVE..."  meaning if one is not baptized a jw, they will not survive. 

you just made my point. 

[Anna]

1 minute ago, Shiwiii said:

but you disregard the part " ONLY THEN WILL THEY SURVIVE..."  meaning if one is not baptized a jw, they will not survive. 

you just made my point. 

Baptism is only possible for those who have made those initial steps first. Obviously, not every single person on earth will have been given the chance to even take the first step. Therefor the WT statement cannot apply to those people, but it applies to those who are able to take the steps leading to baptism. That is the context.

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

AND finally we get to the point of the matter.

If you like, you can report me.

”Dear WT:

TrueTom isn’t doing it right. I caught him for you.

Your friend, 

Shiwiiiii.”

[Shiwiii]

16 hours ago, Anna said:

Baptism is only possible for those who have made those initial steps first. Obviously, not every single person on earth will have been given the chance to even take the first step. Therefor the WT statement cannot apply to those people, but it applies to those who are able to take the steps leading to baptism. That is the context.

You are trying very hard to say yes and no at the same time.

The fact of the matter is that the wt says one must be a baptized jw in order to survive.

It is so black and white that no one batted an eye when Tony Morris was telling people how to force children to get baptized. 

[TrueTomHarley]

17 hours ago, Anna said:

Baptism is only possible for those who have made those initial steps first. Obviously, not every single person on earth will have been given the chance to even take the first step. Therefor the WT statement cannot apply to those people, but it applies to those who are able to take the steps leading to baptism. That is the context.

Yes. Of course. What could be the objection to this? The WT cannot go beyond and does not go beyond what the scriptures explicitly say. It ought to be commended for this. For an outfit that claims to be directed by scripture, that is exactly what it should do. That does not mean that even those who write it do not say to themselves, “Well, let us see what Jehovah has in store.” They go by the signs visible at present, not the ones a few miles up the road that haven’t come into view yet.

What can be Shiwiiiiii”s beef with this? That JWs claim to be the one true religion? Many religions claim this. Let them put forth their reasons and their fruitage and let people make their own choice—why in the world should that get him exorcised? 

You read the verse at Peter, and if Shiwiii wants to argue about it, you direct them to the verse at Peter. If you do that, and he still wants to argue, you direct him to the verse at Peter. If he jumps up and down and still wants to argue with regard to each individual, you dismiss him with, “Well...I’m not Jesus and I don’t know.” It is the future. Dealing with the present is enough for me, and I know what Christians are directed to do at present. I’ll leave it to Him to determine schedule. I’ll leave it to Him to man the admittance gate. For now, 1 Peter 3:21 will suffice for direction.

[Witness]

On 11/4/2019 at 3:32 PM, Anna said:

This is what I was trying to say, that in context, the WT is not making the point that only baptised JWS will be saved.

JW baptism requires making a dedicated vow to the organization.  There is no opting out of the second question one must answer "yes" to.  

2) “Do you understand that your baptism identifies you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with Jehovah’s organization?” 

No other baptism outside of the organization would be recognized as valid by JWs.  Can one be called a “Christian”, a follower of Christ if not part of  “Jehovah’s organization”?  That is certainly a conundrum for JWs to face if someone at the door or cart says, "I'm a Christian."    I know when I heard people say this at a door, I was totally convinced they were NOT really Christians, but part of "Babylon" - pagans.   And here we are, seeing JWs dedicating themselves to an organization at the time of baptism; a blatant act of idolatry.  

Can one be a slave to two Masters?  Matt 6:24

"These people have exchanged God’s truth for a lie. So they have become ungodly and serve what is created rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen! "   Rom 1:25

[Anna]

15 hours ago, Witness said:

) “Do you understand that your baptism identifies you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with Jehovah’s organization?” 

There would be no need for this question if "Christianity" was as it was in the 1st century; pure and unadulterated by pagan beliefs and pemissive morals. There would also be no need to be called Jehovah's Witnesses, or Jehovah's organization.

[Equivocation]

Didn't JWI and Space answer this a while back?

[Witness]

8 hours ago, Anna said:

There would be no need for this question if "Christianity" was as it was in the 1st century; pure and unadulterated by pagan beliefs and pemissive morals. There would also be no need to be called Jehovah's Witnesses, or Jehovah's organization.

 

Watchtower 1990 11/1 p. 26 Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities

"As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." 

Jesus' words apply today, just as when he said them 2000 years ago:

Jesus told her, “Believe me. A time is coming when you Samaritans won’t be worshiping the Father on this mountain or in Jerusalem. 22 You don’t know what you’re worshiping. We Jews know what we’re worshiping, because salvation comes from the Jews. 23 Indeed, the time is coming, and it is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. The Father is looking for people like that to worship him. 24 God is a spirit. Those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”  John 4:21-24

There is still no need for an earthly "mountainlike organization".  Do you know what you are worshiping?

 

[Andre Plamondon]

JWS would first have to be grafted into Israel, if you go by Romans 11:24,

For if you were cut out of the olive tree that is wild by nature (Gentiles) and were grafted contrary to nature into the garden olive tree, (Israel) how much more will these who are natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree! 25 For I do not want you to be unaware of this sacred secret. 

And Eph 2:14  For he is our peace, the one who made the two groups one and destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off. 15 By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, in order to make the two groups in union with himself into one new man and to make peace, 16 and to reconcile fully both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake, because he had killed off the enmity by means of himself.

John 10:16 “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.”

The fundamental basis of the new covenant is to reunite this world into the only begotten.  “Religion” comes from the Latin "religare" which means “to re-unite.”  To reunite first implies a separation.

 

Again, ב Bet is the first letter of the whole Bible. ב Bet is also the number two. If we look at ב Bet as its number, we read the first word of the Bible as two superimposed beginnings. B+rashit   ב ראשית    ב ראשית ברא אלהים. One kingdom is heaven and the other one is earth.

 

Two separate kingdoms were created in the אלוהים Alohim pronounced Elohim God.

 

Those two kingdoms are the above, where all is united and the lower kingdom, which is where many are yet to be gathered into the last Adam before above and below merges. The higher kingdom is where Spirit resides, and the lower kingdom is where the last Adam, the house, has yet to receive the breath of life, the spirit.  (From the beginning I foretell the outcome, (I declare the end since the beginning and from long ago the things that have not yet been done.) The point of religion is to re-unite these two kingdoms and to make them one. To put God in his own temple, his house, his בית Bet, is to bring heaven to earth to unite both kingdoms into one man/house made of every nation. This is the meaning of בראשית, Genesis. To make the man in the image of God is the merging the truth into its image and both into one.  (Mat 6:10) “heaven, also on earth”

 

1Co 13:12 For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known. (Illustration)

 

“It is written, ‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it a cave of robbers.” Matthew 21: 13  (“you are making it”) confirms the separation.

 

That house is represented by the letter ב Bet. Bet is us collectively, Israel, the only Son.  The two groups are to be married into one flesh man. (Israel)     Ishral    ישׂראל

 

Rom 11:25 … “A partial dulling of senses has come upon Israel until the full number of people of the nations has come in,”        

 

John 10:16 “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.”

 

Eph 2:14  For he is our peace, the one who made the two groups one and destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off. 15 By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, in order to make the two groups in union with himself into one new man and to make peace, 16 and to reconcile fully both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake, because he had killed off the enmity by means of himself.     *Romans 11:24 two olive trees Wild and Garden

 

The only begotten reunited, (The accuser now knowing he accuses himself, stops)

 

1 John 2:15 If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.         Enmity in the One

John 3:16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son

John 17:16 They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.         Enmity in the One

 

A little deeper?

 

Isaiah 50:1 This is what Jehovah says:“ Where is the divorce certificate of your mother, whom I sent away? Or to which of my creditors did I sell you? Look! It was because of your own errors you were sold, and because of your own transgressions your mother was sent away.            (God was separated from his wife and then from Israel his son)

 

אלהים Alohim translated as Elohim, is a plural Hebrew word.  In the English and Latin Bibles, it is translated as “God,” singular masculine.  But the word אלהים Alohim is not singular masculine.  Alohim is a plural word which comes from אל Al, which is “God,” in Hebrew.   אֵלָה translated as Eloah is Aloah is God’s feminine counterpart kept hidden. The suffix ים -im is plural. Thus, אלהים Alohim can mean either God and Goddess or Gods and Goddesses. “in our image (Plural) male and female”    

 

 

Modern derivative ALOHA The Way Of Love 1Corinthians 13:1-13

 

 

"The Aloha Spirit" or "The Way of Aloha".  Hawaii

 

 

Aloha is being all, and all being me. When there is pain - it is my pain. When there is joy - it is also mine. I respect all that is the Creator, me. I will not wilfully harm anyone or anything. When food is needed I will share. The earth, the sky, the sea are mine/me to care for, to cherish and to protect. This is Aloha “and there is no one else” Isaiah 45:5-6

 

When we look at the Bible the first three words say, בראשית ברא אלהים B’rashit Bara Alohim:

 

Alohim is the Father-Mother ( אל Al + אלה Aloha = אלהים Alohim), when together, they create in us Christ. χρίω chriō anoint

 

Gal 4:19 my little children, for whom I am again experiencing birth pains until Christ is formed in you.

 

Proverbs 24:3 MKJV Through wisdom (Sophia) a house is built, and by understanding it is established.

 

Matthew 7:24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings of mine and does them will be like a discreet man who built his house on the rock.

 

Who is the anointed man? “Christ is formed in you” To have incarnated Christ is to be a wise man.  The Greek terms is Pnuematikos:  to be one with the Spirit / to have the

Spirit / to be anointed of the spirit. Then, it is the A, who speaks through B the servant, his house, Man, Bethel... the turtledove in the olive tree.

 

Matthew 7:25And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and lashed against that house, but it did not cave in, for it had been founded on the rock.”

Mat 11:2 But John, having heard in jail about the works of the Christ, sent his disciples 3  to ask him: “Are you the Coming One, or are we to expect a different one?” 4  In reply Jesus said to them: “Go and report to John what you are hearing and seeing: 5  The blind are now seeing and the lame are walking, the lepers are being cleansed and the deaf are hearing, the dead are being raised up and the poor are being told the good news. 6 Happy is the one who finds no cause for stumbling in me. Me/I

 

When John asked Jesus “Are you the Coming One, or are we to expect a different one?”  

 

#1 Did John know that his cousin Jesus was the Coming One?    (Yes he did)

 

“One is standing among you whom you do not know|” “See, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” “This is the one about whom I said: ‘Behind me there comes a man who has advanced in front of me, for he existed before me.’” “Even I did not know him, but the reason why I came baptizing in water was so that he might be made manifest to Israel.”        (But when he asked, he knew.   So #2 or #3?)

 

#2 Was John discretely asking Jesus to rescue him from prison?                

 

The law of commandments still in force, Jesus could not accomplish all that concerned him in the first of a twofold prophecy. John 19:36 “Not a bone of his will be broken.”

Isaiah 52:14 “was disfigured” 53:3 It was as if his face were hidden from us 10-12 “crush him” / become sick / He will see his offspring / By means of his knowledge / he will apportion the spoil with the mighty.       Isaiah 9:3 As people rejoice in the harvesttime, As those who joyfully divide up the spoil.

 

#3 Was John prophesying of “a different one” ?  

 

(For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!) Matthew 23:39 / Psalm 118:26

 

*Romans 11:24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree that is wild by nature (Gentiles) and were grafted contrary to nature into the garden olive tree, (Israel) how much more will these who are natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree! 25 For I do not want you to be unaware of this sacred secret.           (Secretly Illustrated?)

 

(Eyes to see; Merging upper and lower kingdoms into one is the last phase of this plan)     Just saying.