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Shiwiii

Only jws will be saved

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2 minutes ago, Anna said:

The problem with 'only baptised Witnesses will be saved' is that in the stream of time there will always be someone who is not baptised yet either because they are too young, immature, mentally incapable, or working towards baptism. So this admonition in my opinion is to be understood to mean that just like the eunuch told Philip "what prevents me from getting baptised" and he got baptised, so a Christian would not avoid or postpone baptism if there is no good reason to do so. Also, I am sure there will be many who have never been given the chance to get baptised  (India, China, Arab states etc.) and they will survive Armageddon on the merit that Jehovah reads their heart and will give them a chance to prove themselves later, and those who are informed, but keep sitting on the fence, ought to realize that they need to make a decision because the last step, baptism, is necessary.

I appreciate your thought and position, however the question is do you warn others while out in service or cart sitting that if they are not baptized jws they will be destroyed as stated in the wt publication? 

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15 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

I appreciate your thought and position, however the question is do you warn others while out in service or cart sitting that if they are not baptized jws they will be destroyed as stated in the wt publication? 

Well no, of course we do not most of the time. We take our queue from Paul and others who were not that direct either. This is what I was trying to say, that in context, the WT is not making the point that only baptised JWS will be saved. It is saying that you can't sit on the fence because if there is nothing preventing you from getting baptised and you don't get baptised, you need to realize (in this context) that if you don't ,it will cost you your life, as oposed to someone who is ignorant of baptism. So those who we contact at the carts are ignorant of this requirement, so the WT statement does not at that point in time apply to them.

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2 minutes ago, Anna said:

WT is not making the point that only baptised JWS will be saved.

they most certainly are and have stated such many times. You can deny it all you want but it is in print. 

8 minutes ago, Anna said:

It is saying that you can't sit on the fence because if there is nothing preventing you from getting baptised and you don't get baptised, you need to realize (in this context) that if you don't ,it will cost you your life, as oposed to someone who is ignorant of baptism.

Definition of context: the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect. - Dictionary.com

This means that what is said prior to a statement, forms the idea behind the thought or meaning. Nothing in the printed publications give the idea you claim here when the wt states that one must be a baptized jw. 

also to add, why is Tony Morris instructing people to withhold a drivers license from a child until they get baptized? Shouldn't this be a choice by the child once the child is no longer a child? 

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3 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

 

Definition of context: the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect. - Dictionary.com

This means that what is said prior to a statement, forms the idea behind the thought or meaning. Nothing in the printed publications give the idea you claim here when the wt states that one must be a baptized jw. 

It most certainly  does: "This means trying to motivate people to make the truth their own by applying what they learn, dedicating their life to Jehovah, and getting baptized. Only then will they survive Jehovah’s day".—

Obviously getting baptised cannot apply unless they have first  made the truth their own, applied what they learn, and dedicated their life to Jehovah.

 

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Just now, Anna said:

It most certainly  does: "This means trying to motivate people to make the truth their own by applying what they learn, dedicating their life to Jehovah, and getting baptized. Only then will they survive Jehovah’s day".—

Obviously getting baptised cannot apply unless they have first  made the truth their own, applied what they learn, and dedicated their life to Jehovah.

 

but you disregard the part " ONLY THEN WILL THEY SURVIVE..."  meaning if one is not baptized a jw, they will not survive. 

you just made my point. 

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1 minute ago, Shiwiii said:

but you disregard the part " ONLY THEN WILL THEY SURVIVE..."  meaning if one is not baptized a jw, they will not survive. 

you just made my point. 

Baptism is only possible for those who have made those initial steps first. Obviously, not every single person on earth will have been given the chance to even take the first step. Therefor the WT statement cannot apply to those people, but it applies to those who are able to take the steps leading to baptism. That is the context.

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4 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

AND finally we get to the point of the matter.

If you like, you can report me.

”Dear WT:

TrueTom isn’t doing it right. I caught him for you.

Your friend, 

Shiwiiiii.”

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16 hours ago, Anna said:

Baptism is only possible for those who have made those initial steps first. Obviously, not every single person on earth will have been given the chance to even take the first step. Therefor the WT statement cannot apply to those people, but it applies to those who are able to take the steps leading to baptism. That is the context.

You are trying very hard to say yes and no at the same time.

The fact of the matter is that the wt says one must be a baptized jw in order to survive.

It is so black and white that no one batted an eye when Tony Morris was telling people how to force children to get baptized. 

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17 hours ago, Anna said:

Baptism is only possible for those who have made those initial steps first. Obviously, not every single person on earth will have been given the chance to even take the first step. Therefor the WT statement cannot apply to those people, but it applies to those who are able to take the steps leading to baptism. That is the context.

Yes. Of course. What could be the objection to this? The WT cannot go beyond and does not go beyond what the scriptures explicitly say. It ought to be commended for this. For an outfit that claims to be directed by scripture, that is exactly what it should do. That does not mean that even those who write it do not say to themselves, “Well, let us see what Jehovah has in store.” They go by the signs visible at present, not the ones a few miles up the road that haven’t come into view yet.

What can be Shiwiiiiii”s beef with this? That JWs claim to be the one true religion? Many religions claim this. Let them put forth their reasons and their fruitage and let people make their own choice—why in the world should that get him exorcised? 

You read the verse at Peter, and if Shiwiii wants to argue about it, you direct them to the verse at Peter. If you do that, and he still wants to argue, you direct him to the verse at Peter. If he jumps up and down and still wants to argue with regard to each individual, you dismiss him with, “Well...I’m not Jesus and I don’t know.” It is the future. Dealing with the present is enough for me, and I know what Christians are directed to do at present. I’ll leave it to Him to determine schedule. I’ll leave it to Him to man the admittance gate. For now, 1 Peter 3:21 will suffice for direction.

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On 11/4/2019 at 3:32 PM, Anna said:

This is what I was trying to say, that in context, the WT is not making the point that only baptised JWS will be saved.

JW baptism requires making a dedicated vow to the organization.  There is no opting out of the second question one must answer "yes" to.  

2) “Do you understand that your baptism identifies you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with Jehovah’s organization?” 

No other baptism outside of the organization would be recognized as valid by JWs.  Can one be called a “Christian”, a follower of Christ if not part of  “Jehovah’s organization”?  That is certainly a conundrum for JWs to face if someone at the door or cart says, "I'm a Christian."    I know when I heard people say this at a door, I was totally convinced they were NOT really Christians, but part of "Babylon" - pagans.   And here we are, seeing JWs dedicating themselves to an organization at the time of baptism; a blatant act of idolatry.  

Can one be a slave to two Masters?  Matt 6:24

"These people have exchanged God’s truth for a lie. So they have become ungodly and serve what is created rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen! "   Rom 1:25

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