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Matthew9969

Permission to get baptized

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14 hours ago, Ray Devereaux said:

I would imagine a parent would prevent a teenage child from driving if that youth is not ready to take the written and physical test just like it should be done in order to see if an individual is spiritually mature to be baptized.

agreed.

 

14 hours ago, Ray Devereaux said:

. I will agree a “baby” should not be baptized just to satisfy a church tradition.

isn't that what was proposed in Tony's hypothetical situation? 

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No mention is made of a diploma.

no mention of dedicating oneself to an organization either. 

5 hours ago, Equivocation said:

 The choice of Baptism is up to the individual themselves

or their parents according to Tony Morris. 

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10 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

No mention is made of a diploma. 

no mention of dedicating oneself to an organization either. 

 

I believe it goes without saying. 

And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works,  not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom.” 

However, I have come around to seeing your point. I will tell Bethel to award diplomas to elders upon being appointed. They obviously are the ones qualified to do it. Not only do they specialize in advanced and applied Bible study for 150 years, but they have the added qualification of showing that they can DO something with it, something that is often lacking in more traditional schools of higher learning.

What is a diploma? Essentially, is it anything more than a paper testifying that you have successfully answered someone’s 80 questions? So why should you ask the questions? What in the world do you have to offer? 

No. They qualify to ask the questions. And award the diplomas, should they ever choose to. 

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11 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

their parents according to Tony Morris. 

Asking questions is a good thing - to establish if the person really understands what the bible teaches and their personal moral obligations.  ...... in other words understand the seriousness of their dedication (promise). ..... in laymens terms...... what they are getting into....... 

Despite this process, some here on this forum did not understand their public promise they made and got themselves in an undesirable situation by brazen conduct and then rebellion and outside the JWs. THEN they turn around and critisize the GB and do not take any responsibility for their own actions - like Adam, it is always someone else's fault. Blame it on the seducing wife/lover, domineering elders or crazy, unqualified GB.  ...... 

I think that parents should be smart and have the right to say something while the child is under 16 (the age one can take responsibility for driving a car), some children mature later.   Jesus asked deep questions at age 12 but one cannot put an age on something like this.  I know of an almost 90 year old anounted sister who got baptised at age 9 - still faithful with no ego or other problems.

 

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@Shiwiii No, I was only encouraged to seek Baptism,  even my late uncle who had no religous affiliation,  but was very hard on applying the Bible also encouraged me and others in my family Caza despues del bautismo y se salvo, as he puts it. But as I grew older, I took the steps necessary torwards Baptism myself, especially during my early preteen years. I made thos choice because I firmly accept what the Scriptures teach about Jehovah God and his Christ and I took the time and effort to put the teachings of the Scriptures first, even as far as to mold myself to be a better Christian, and a declaring that I myself want to serve God fully, and in doing so, I go about with the tools that I have been given to teach what Jesus taught regarding the good news and what the Kingdom would bring - caso y punto.

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12 hours ago, Arauna said:

Asking questions is a good thing - to establish if the person really understands what the bible teaches and their personal moral obligations.  ...... in other words understand the seriousness of their dedication (promise). ..... in laymens terms...... what they are getting into....... 

Despite this process, some here on this forum did not understand their public promise they made and got themselves in an undesirable situation by brazen conduct and then rebellion and outside the JWs. THEN they turn around and critisize the GB and do not take any responsibility for their own actions - like Adam, it is always someone else's fault. Blame it on the seducing wife/lover, domineering elders or crazy, unqualified GB.  ...... 

I think that parents should be smart and have the right to say something while the child is under 16 (the age one can take responsibility for driving a car), some children mature later.   Jesus asked deep questions at age 12 but one cannot put an age on something like this.  I know of an almost 90 year old anounted sister who got baptised at age 9 - still faithful with no ego or other problems.

 

 

Sure, ask questions. I agree with you that a person should be diligent in their understanding of what it is they are doing. I feel the same as you in regards to blaming the gb for their mistake. A person needs to be aware of their own hand in mistakes and learn form them. 

Sure, we as parents, those of us who are, should be responsible enough to not let our children get involved in something if we know that they are not capable of understanding the risks involved. 

The part you missed is where Tony Morris said that parents should withhold a drivers license from an assumed 16 year old, UNTIL they get baptized. That is what I was referring to, 

7 hours ago, Equivocation said:

@Shiwiii No, I was only encouraged to seek Baptism,  even my late uncle who had no religous affiliation,  but was very hard on applying the Bible also encouraged me and others in my family Caza despues del bautismo y se salvo, as he puts it. But as I grew older, I took the steps necessary torwards Baptism myself, especially during my early preteen years. I made thos choice because I firmly accept what the Scriptures teach about Jehovah God and his Christ and I took the time and effort to put the teachings of the Scriptures first, even as far as to mold myself to be a better Christian, and a declaring that I myself want to serve God fully, and in doing so, I go about with the tools that I have been given to teach what Jesus taught regarding the good news and what the Kingdom would bring - caso y punto.

I wasn't singling you out at all, only making the statement that Tony Morris did. see my response to Arauna

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1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

16 year old, UNTIL they get baptized. That is what I was referring to, 

I presume you are quoting him correctly.  I do not agree with him...... but fortunately it is a personal choice what one does in your home and with your children. 

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2 hours ago, Arauna said:

I presume you are quoting him correctly.  I do not agree with him...... but fortunately it is a personal choice what one does in your home and with your children. 

agreed, it is a personal choice when it comes to our children. 

I encourage you to watch Tony's message and then, if you are willing, let me know what you think of his talk. You can even shoot me a private message if you'd like, but I am very curious what you think of it. It was in the 2015 regional convention, last talk on sunday. 

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Yes it would be asking permission to people who act as if they are authorized to say yes or no. These actors were called ὑποκριτής hupokritēs in Greek. When the best actors are the elders, we might still need a Savior, if we don't wake up.

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