Suicide. God's view. Organisation's view

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

I was in conversation with an elder last week (or maybe two weeks ago) and I don't quite know how we got onto the topic but we started talking about suicide. I was a bit surprised when he said "But don't commit suicide or you will not get a resurrection". 

I was wondering where exactly this information comes from. Having recovered from the shock, I have since emailed this elder and got no response. I have looked on JW Org and read a couple of older articles on there, but they seemed to say that it is or was not their place to judge, which i agree with. 

So, is there 'new light' on the subject of suicide ? If so where does this new light come from ? And what scriptures back up this 'new light' ?

I will willingly read any recent articles that are passed on to me, as this latest information, if it is true, i find disturbing. I know of many people that have committed suicide, both inside and outside of the Jehovah's Witnesses Organisation. 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

1.)  Jesus was on a mission that required him to walk into a trap, and be executed. He willingly did this knowing he would die, in a manner most painfull, where agony is an understated word.

In the Military this is called a "suicide mission" ... a concept that EVEY civilization INCLUDING the armies of ancient Israel fully understood.

2.) Jehovah NEVER prohibited suicide, and was well aware that there were circumstances where it was the only option available, as in the circumstances of King Saul's last battle.

3.) Jehovah never even prohibited cannibalism, which was widely practiced in Jerusalem under siege by enemies.... it is a CULTURAL taboo, not a prohibition from God.

Same thing with suicide.

As Brother Splaine of the governing body said in a video awhile back, "we" once had opinions on ever imaginable subject, and they were presented as inspired directives and pronouncements from God. The example he gave was the hidden and profound meaning that it was downhill from one town to Jerusalem and that camels walking downhill had one symbolic meaning, and camels walking uphill had another symbolic meaning.

To be kind, this was some writer's opinion only ... but it was presented as profound insight from the Word of God.  What it really was was unmitigated crap.  I had a LOT of respect for Brother Splaine as being the only sane person in the bunch, until he came out with the "overlapping generations" chart, and tried to explain that nonsense as TRUTH.

I suppose he could be reassigned to the basement janitorial closet of Bethel laundry room if he did not obey the directive, and that is why he did it.  Of course, again, I am trying to be kind.

How many THOUSANDS of times can you be wrong about everything in everyday life and still have credibility? I would have to quote Circus Master P.T. Barnum.

Four years ago my Siberian Husky got cancer in her right eye, and after several thousand dollars we thought it was "fixed", but it spread, and she was being eaten up by cancer, and we took her to the Veterinarian and had her painlessly executed. It was with great anguish on my wife and my part to have to do that, but that is what love and compassion required of us.

LOVE NEVER FAILS ... remember that one?

FOLLOW JESUS  ... remember that one?

What EXAMPLE did he set for all time, in considering whether suicide is or is not ALLOWED by Jehovah God?

He committed suicide by deliberately walking into a known trap, for the EXPRESS purpose of being executed.

AND JEHOVAH RESURRECTED HIM !

When the Governing Body admitted for the first time, and only time, that they were NEITHER inspired of God, or infallible, in the February 2017 Watchtower, my reaction was ...

DUH!

 

 

 

"Quod est necessarium est licitum"

That which is necessary, is legal

Like, AS JESUS POINTED OUT, rescuing a lost sheep on the Sabbath, when doing work on the Sabbath is expressly forbidden.

How much more that principle can be applied when there is no prohibition whatsoever.

Playing with and manipulating words and phrases to conform to cultural taboos that you already believe, all the way to your bones ... DOES NOT COUNT!

I am saddened by knowing that when my time comes ... and it will all too soon .... there will be no one at all among Jehovah's Witnesses  to show me the same love and compassion that I showed my dog.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@James Thomas Rook Jr. Thank you for your comment. I did read about King Saul and his circumstances. 

Are you therefore saying, there is no 'new light' on this subject ? 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I don't know .... it changes so much I get a headache trying to keep up with "light" that is profoundly explained with hundreds of thousands of words, and a potload of scriptures, that backed it up ... all which turned out to be wrong!

I don't like headaches.

[Srecko Sostar]

11 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Are you therefore saying, there is no 'new light' on this subject ? 

Light is in you. JTR explained, in a kind way, do not look for some imaginable "new light" as something that coming from organized religion or corporation.

[Melinda Mills]

Don't think it is new light. Don't be disturbed by anything you hear. Start doing research.  It is easy when you are on the computer.

People in the organization always used to think one would not get a resurrection if they committed suicide. However, please read  the powerful statement mentioned at the end of this answer to a question from readers (in 2002). Go to the article and read it in full. Continue to do research.

 

*** w02 6/15 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***

Questions From Readers

If someone commits suicide, would it be advisable for a Christian minister to give the funeral talk?

….

Any future prospect for the dead is in the hands of Jehovah, and no one is in a position to say whether the deceased will be resurrected or not. The minister can concentrate on the Bible truths about death and offer comfort for the bereaved." End Quote

 

Underscoring = mine

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

10 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

w02 6/15 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***

Questions From Readers

If someone commits suicide, would it be advisable for a Christian minister to give the funeral talk?

First of all, i have to noticed this: WHAT sort of READERS would come to such idea to even ask such question?

Is it ADVISABLE for a C. MINISTER to give talk ...? ........ Good God!

Also, this question showed how JW's are under (influenced) general idea (of Catholic church) how suicide is consider as sin. Because God is Master of life and you have no right to end something what is given to you  (and to other people) as God's gift. Life belong to God, so He is only one who can give or take life. In such cultural-social environment, suicide is not viewed as something acceptable for member (or is in some black-grey zone).

Another thing, JW funerals talks are, in almost all cases, made in form to giving witnessing to non witness people. That is main reason for giving talk, and not so much about comforting of those who stay.     

i believe how many times, or almost always this questions are products of Bethel moves and strategy. Because, i can be sure how exist people who send some other letters/questions and such subjects not came under this section. Internet is place to ask unpleasant questions and to hear answers that is sometimes hard to accept.

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

1 hour ago, Melinda Mills said:

Don't think it is new light. Don't be disturbed by anything you hear. Start doing research.  It is easy when you are on the computer.

People in the organization always used to think one would not get a resurrection if they committed suicide. However, please read  the powerful statement mentioned at the end of this answer to a question from readers (in 2002). Go to the article and read it in full. Continue to do research.

 

*** w02 6/15 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***

Questions From Readers

If someone commits suicide, would it be advisable for a Christian minister to give the funeral talk?

….

Any future prospect for the dead is in the hands of Jehovah, and no one is in a position to say whether the deceased will be resurrected or not. The minister can concentrate on the Bible truths about death and offer comfort for the bereaved." End Quote

 

Underscoring = mine

 

 

 

Thank you, i have read this already, but it isn't very recent.. My main point was to find out if the Governing Body / Writing Dept' has very recently written anything new regarding suicide. In the last 6 month maybe ? 

My personal feelings are that God, through Jesus Christ, will resurrect all those that they find worthy. And that 'worthiness' cannot be judged by any human. Thanks again.

[Melinda Mills]

Ask your elders about the list of decisions at the last  Annual Meeting.  Don't think anything about suicide was in that list.

 

[Anna]

7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

. I was a bit surprised when he said "But don't commit suicide or you will not get a resurrection". 

No new light, just the elder's opinion, and not a very good one at that. It still stands that Jehovah will be the judge as he knows the reasons and circumstance.

[Evacuated]

10 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

don't commit suicide or you will not get a resurrection". 

This viewpoint is personal and not only unreasonable, but unscriptural.  In fact, it is also out of line with Jehovah's Witnesses thinking by at least 29 years. As Melinda above said, do your own research in the theocratic literature, and avoid some of the clumsy blundering presented by cleverdicks more interested in their own opinions

*** g90 9/8 p. 23 Suicides—A Resurrection? ***
Stunned friends of a suicide victim may thus take comfort in knowing that “Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust.” (Psalm 103:10-14) Only God can fully understand the role of mental sickness, extreme stress, even genetic defects, in a “suicidal crisis,” which, the National Observer noted, “is not a lifetime characteristic [but] often a matter only of minutes or of hours.”—See Ecclesiastes 7:7.
Granted, one who takes his own life deprives himself of the opportunity to repent of his self-murder. But who can say whether one driven to suicide might have had a change of heart had his fatal attempt failed? Some notorious murderers have, in fact, changed and earned God’s forgiveness during their lifetime.—2 Kings 21:16; 2 Chronicles 33:12, 13.
Thus, Jehovah, having paid “a ransom in exchange for many,” is within his right to extend mercy, even to some self-murderers, by resurrecting them and giving them the precious opportunity to “repent and turn to God by doing works that befit repentance.”—Matthew 20:28; Acts 26:20.
 

*** g00 2/22 pp. 6-7 Given a Desire to Live ***
Yet, never forget that Jehovah God raises up the dead and that this might well include our loved ones who because of depression, mental illness, or despair took their own lives.—See “The Bible’s Viewpoint: Suicides—A Resurrection?” in Awake! of September 8, 1990, pages 22-3.
While suicide cannot be justified, it is comforting to remember that the future prospects of our loved ones rest with a God who fully understands that weaknesses and frailties could push one to such desperate action. The Bible says of Jehovah: “As the heavens are higher than the earth, his loving-kindness is superior toward those fearing him. As far off as the sunrise is from the sunset, so far off from us he has put our transgressions. As a father shows mercy to his sons, Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust.”—Psalm 103:11-14.
 

[Guest Tom Henry]

When it comes to analyzing the nature of a person’s true intent under God’s law about suicide, witnesses need to be careful when an error in personal judgment can distract others from the truth.

Yes, the Watchtower has printed several articles about suicide, and God’s mercy. However, at what point can God’s mercy not be a factor for redemption.

I find many witnesses are conflicted when it comes to hope. Especially if it’s personal. Meaning close to one's heart, a friend or relative.

Several things need to be considered, before we can be complicit with our answers. The inability to have control due to mental illness. A person without having control of their action “might” be a good reason to apply mercy.

However, what of those that take their lives due to passion, anger, or selfish emotion. A man or woman takes their lives because of conflict with a personal relationship.(i.e. murder/suicide) How about a rich person that takes his/her life because they lost it all. They couldn’t stand the idea of being poor after experiencing riches and had a commanding life to be served by others.

The early church fathers were conflicted as well. They labeled suicide a sin. However, what kind of sin. Since no one can get into the minds of those inflicted to know, we cannot say for sure who God will hold accountable for their personal actions.

*** g90 9/8 p. 22 Suicides—A Resurrection? ***

The Bible’s Viewpoint

Suicides—A Resurrection?

THE tragic news of a suicide does not close a chapter in the lives of relatives and friends; it opens one—a chapter of mixed feelings of pity and anger, sorrow and guilt. And it raises the question: May we entertain any hope for our friend who took his or her life?

Although self-inflicted death is never justified, never righteous, the apostle Paul did hold out a beautiful hope for even some unrighteous ones. As he told a Roman court of law: “I have hope toward God . . . that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.”—Acts 24:15.

Even the apostle Paul understood his limitation to know who God would judge. The keyword here is highlighted. Why would the word “some” be important.

Following scripture in 1 Corinthians 3:16, Romans 6:16

1 Corinthians 6:19

19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price.

Back then, if someone was a slave, was that life their own? It will all depend on if someone has missing faculties or the action is a selfish one.

If someone comments, whatever you do just don’t commit suicide, perhaps that person feels a person’s thought is a selfish reason behind it, and that Elder would be motived by concern, to correct a misguided emotion. What Witnesses should “never” do is be absolute when stating “all” suicides will not be judged and will receive mercy.

While scripture doesn’t specifically state the word “suicide” it is necessary to understand the correct way how the Watchtower articles are presented to the public, and not go beyond its true intent.

1 Corinthians 3:17

17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.