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4Jah2me

Suicide. God's view. Organisation's view

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10 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

don't commit suicide or you will not get a resurrection". 

This viewpoint is personal and not only unreasonable, but unscriptural.  In fact, it is also out of line with Jehovah's Witnesses thinking by at least 29 years. As Melinda above said, do your own research in the theocratic literature, and avoid some of the clumsy blundering presented by cleverdicks more interested in their own opinions

*** g90 9/8 p. 23 Suicides—A Resurrection? ***
Stunned friends of a suicide victim may thus take comfort in knowing that “Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust.” (Psalm 103:10-14) Only God can fully understand the role of mental sickness, extreme stress, even genetic defects, in a “suicidal crisis,” which, the National Observer noted, “is not a lifetime characteristic [but] often a matter only of minutes or of hours.”—See Ecclesiastes 7:7.
Granted, one who takes his own life deprives himself of the opportunity to repent of his self-murder. But who can say whether one driven to suicide might have had a change of heart had his fatal attempt failed? Some notorious murderers have, in fact, changed and earned God’s forgiveness during their lifetime.—2 Kings 21:16; 2 Chronicles 33:12, 13.
Thus, Jehovah, having paid “a ransom in exchange for many,” is within his right to extend mercy, even to some self-murderers, by resurrecting them and giving them the precious opportunity to “repent and turn to God by doing works that befit repentance.”—Matthew 20:28; Acts 26:20.
 

*** g00 2/22 pp. 6-7 Given a Desire to Live ***
Yet, never forget that Jehovah God raises up the dead and that this might well include our loved ones who because of depression, mental illness, or despair took their own lives.—See “The Bible’s Viewpoint: Suicides—A Resurrection?” in Awake! of September 8, 1990, pages 22-3.
While suicide cannot be justified, it is comforting to remember that the future prospects of our loved ones rest with a God who fully understands that weaknesses and frailties could push one to such desperate action. The Bible says of Jehovah: “As the heavens are higher than the earth, his loving-kindness is superior toward those fearing him. As far off as the sunrise is from the sunset, so far off from us he has put our transgressions. As a father shows mercy to his sons, Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust.”—Psalm 103:11-14.
 

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When it comes to analyzing the nature of a person’s true intent under God’s law about suicide, witnesses need to be careful when an error in personal judgment can distract others from the truth.

Yes, the Watchtower has printed several articles about suicide, and God’s mercy. However, at what point can God’s mercy not be a factor for redemption.

I find many witnesses are conflicted when it comes to hope. Especially if it’s personal. Meaning close to one's heart, a friend or relative.

Several things need to be considered, before we can be complicit with our answers. The inability to have control due to mental illness. A person without having control of their action “might” be a good reason to apply mercy.

However, what of those that take their lives due to passion, anger, or selfish emotion. A man or woman takes their lives because of conflict with a personal relationship.(i.e. murder/suicide) How about a rich person that takes his/her life because they lost it all. They couldn’t stand the idea of being poor after experiencing riches and had a commanding life to be served by others.

The early church fathers were conflicted as well. They labeled suicide a sin. However, what kind of sin. Since no one can get into the minds of those inflicted to know, we cannot say for sure who God will hold accountable for their personal actions.

*** g90 9/8 p. 22 Suicides—A Resurrection? ***

The Bible’s Viewpoint

Suicides—A Resurrection?

THE tragic news of a suicide does not close a chapter in the lives of relatives and friends; it opens one—a chapter of mixed feelings of pity and anger, sorrow and guilt. And it raises the question: May we entertain any hope for our friend who took his or her life?

Although self-inflicted death is never justified, never righteous, the apostle Paul did hold out a beautiful hope for even some unrighteous ones. As he told a Roman court of law: “I have hope toward God . . . that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.”—Acts 24:15.

Even the apostle Paul understood his limitation to know who God would judge. The keyword here is highlighted. Why would the word “some” be important.

Following scripture in 1 Corinthians 3:16, Romans 6:16

1 Corinthians 6:19

19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price.

Back then, if someone was a slave, was that life their own? It will all depend on if someone has missing faculties or the action is a selfish one.

If someone comments, whatever you do just don’t commit suicide, perhaps that person feels a person’s thought is a selfish reason behind it, and that Elder would be motived by concern, to correct a misguided emotion. What Witnesses should “never” do is be absolute when stating “all” suicides will not be judged and will receive mercy.

While scripture doesn’t specifically state the word “suicide” it is necessary to understand the correct way how the Watchtower articles are presented to the public, and not go beyond its true intent.

1 Corinthians 3:17

17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.

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2 hours ago, Tom Henry said:

Even the apostle Paul understood his limitation to know who God would judge. The keyword here is highlighted. Why would the word “some” be important.

I thought your post made a lot of good points. We know about God's mercy but we don't want to purposely take advantage of it for selfish purposes. (Of course, we can never get into the mind of the person committing suicide to know whether they were motivated by selfishness, even if the person leaves a lucid note. We leave it to Jehovah to read hearts.)

Also, wanted to point out that Paul never used the word "some" (in case anyone would have read your words to imply that). Either way, though, I think your point is still valid. 

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He (Tom Henry) probably used "some" in his explanation because the scripture says all unrighteousness is sin.  The scriptures also show that there is a sin that incurs death and that we would not expect God to cover over. (See Hebrews 10;26) Therefore the apostle John said not to make request about that kind of sin.  That is permanent death.

(1 John 5:16, 17) 16 If anyone catches sight of his brother committing a sin that does not incur death, he will ask, and God will give life to him, yes, to those not committing sin that incurs death. There is a sin that does incur death. It is concerning that sin that I do not tell him to make request. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and yet there is a sin that does not incur death.

(Hebrews 10:26) For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left,...
=====

This is what I gather about suicide or self murder from my research in the Bible itself.

(Genesis 9:6) 6 Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God’s image He made man.

 (Proverbs 28:17) 17 A man burdened with bloodguilt for taking someone’s life will keep fleeing until the grave. Let no one support him.

 Both of these remedies would be difficult to achieve for a man taking his own life. So there is a difference in taking your own life and taking someone else’s life.

So it boils down to the same thing - you have to leave it to God.

God knows whether it is forgivable or whether it is willful and wanton, disrespecting the Creator and life itself.

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The main thing, God will know the reason why. The biggest factor to consider is Exodus 20:13, Deuteronomy 5:17

Didn’t Jesus himself quote from the Old Testament? Matthew 19:17-18

What is anger and reconciliation in Matthew 5:21 all of which apostle Paul well understood as “some” that committed an act against God’s creation would be considered for judgment as did Christ.

With sociology, we need to understand when the word “suicide” was invented. Self-murder can be more appropriate to align our knowledge with scripture with a greater degree in understanding.

https://academic.oup.com/jsh/article-abstract/46/3/620/908916?redirectedFrom=PDF

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/philosophy/article/suicide-and-selfmurder/2C862F7D9DC18AC9BEE68DA5E3334814

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1109529?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

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I do thank everyone for answers, both serious and funny, but my only point was, if there was very 'new light' from the Governing Body on this subject. 

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9 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

If you do commit suicide, make sure you have 2 witnesses, then maybe you'll be resurrected.

Or maybe.....not

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

if there was very 'new light' from the Governing Body on this subject. 

Not really, although the old light is a lot newer than the very old light that you quoted..................

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No, the whole thing is that we are talking about something we have no control over. We neither gave life or the life we can take can either be given back by us.. so let us acquiesce to the very one the only One who can remember those worthy to be recalled from the grave. And do our very best to be around to see these called from the memorial tombs. All this now is worthless chatter, because we may ourselves be in need of that very hope before it is over!

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      Are you depressed?Are you lonely?          Are you suffering from a relationship break-up? Are you being bullied?               Are you suffering from a terminal illness?Do you feel like no one really understands your situation? You might be thinking:why not just end it all, after all no one will notice that I am gone. No one would miss me.I want to let you know that It is never too late for you,you are not too far gone,you are not too lost.You can still return to how you once were, to what you once was.Suicide is never the solution.Suicide is never the answer because:
      (1)THINGS CHANGES OVERTIME.
      Regardless of your situation, things do not stay the same. You may feel very bad today, but it wonÂ’t last forever. The only constant thing in life is change.
      (2) THERE ARE ALWAYS OTHER OPTIONS.
      Confront a problem, defend yourself, wait for it to blow over.Tell a teacher if you're being bullied. Tell your parents if you feel alone. Take action against it.
      (3) EMBRACE THE LOVE.
      There are people who love you- even if you don't see it. The world is not against you, even if it feels like it. You are loved. There are people in your life who love you. Maybe they are on the sidelines of your life where you don't often look, but you would see them there if you did. Or maybe you don't recognize the love they have for you. Maybe you're looking for friendly love and are dismissing someone giving you sisterly love. It can be easy to  miss sometimes, look around. Look intently. You are loved.
      (4)SEEK HELP
      You may feel lost and confused, but the answers to your specific problems are out there. The key is that you have to find the answers. The answers to your problem will not come to you. There are ways to get help. You just have to ask for it. Talk to a friend, a parent, a counselor, a doctor, a cousin. A person will not know what you are passing through if you don't say it. Above all pray to Jehovah...
      These scriptures can comfort you when you feel depressed and think that there is no way out from your situation.
      -Psalm 27:1
      -Deuteronomy 31:8
      -Psalm 23:4
      -Job 5:11
      -Lamentations 3:22-23
      -John 14:27
      -Psalm 46:1
      -2 Corinthians 1:3
      -psalm 119:76
      -John 16:33
      -Psalm 139:11-12
      -Isaiah 49:13
      -Matthew 5:4
      -Psalm 55:22
      -Romans 8:37-39
      Always remember that it is satan that makes a person to feel worthless. Keep fighting and DON'T GIVE UP. For more information on how to cope with depression visit this link.
      https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/awake-no1-2017-february/teen-depression-help/
      This post can help save a life.pls share


    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      A FORMER professional boxer was seen acting strangely moments before darting into the path of an oncoming lorry, an inquest heard.
      Dennis Harbon, 68, suffered head and chest injuries and died at the scene on the A58 Whitehall Road at Scholes on March 1 this year.
      Married Mr Harbon, a retired window cleaner who lived at Mayfield Place in Wyke, had a history of battling depression and his medication had recently been changed, the hearing was told.
      Witnesses described seeing him at the side of the road suddenly running and flailing his arms before jumping in front of the lorry.
      The inquest in Bradford yesterday heard the lorry driver swerved and braked but was left powerless to avoid hitting Mr Harbon.
      Shocked bystanders tried to help him, with one praying for him, until emergency services arrived.
      Mr Harbon, a JehovahÂ’s Witness, had been due to go to a bible teaching session that morning but had cancelled.
      His wife Amanda Harbon told Assistant Bradford Coroner Kirsty Gomersal her husband had been having good and bad days in the run up to his death but she had not thought it was bad enough for him to take his own life.
      Mr Harbon left three notes of apology at his home which led investigating officers to treat his death as a deliberate act, PC Luke Mitchell told the hearing.
      Summing up, Assistant Coroner Ms Gomersal said “much-loved” Mr Harbon had deliberately jumped in front of the lorry and concluded that his death was suicide.
      Mr Harbon boxed professionally from 1973 to 1975 at welterweight and light middle weight taking part in 14 bouts.
      http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/local/localbrad/15533256.Former_professional_boxer_took_own_life__inquest_told/

    • By Brother Rando
      Many religions teach an array of traditions and customs from reincarnation to entering into another realm. Should we put our trust into traditions and customs?   “In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19)“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5)“ Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out,” (John 5:28)“And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” (Rev 21:4)    Would you like to learn more? 
    • By Kurt
      Why did this crash survivor kill herself?
      ...two years after triple tragedy

      The crash that killed everyone, but spared Sewrhoni Mohan.
      SEWRHONI Mohan awoke early that morning and prepared a meal for her husband.
      As he packed the tools of his trade to head out to work just after daybreak, she told him that while he was gone she would meet her church colleagues to continue the ministry they had been doing in their community.
      When he left, she closed the doors and shut out the world.
      He came home to find her dead. She had placed a plastic bag over her head and suffocated herself to death.
      Why did she do it?
      Mohan had survived a car crash that killed everyone in the vehicle less than two years ago.
      But while her external injuries had healed, the emotional trauma may have left her with a condition known as “Survivor's Guilt”.
      And it probably led her to make the decision to take fate into her own hands.
      On May 18, the 38 year old woman lay on her martial bed and placed a plastic bag over her head and breathed her last.
      Forensic pathologist Dr Valery Alexandrov concluded that there were no signs of foul play involved in the death of Mohan, and that she died of acute oxygen deprivation due to obstruction of the upper airways by the plastic bags put over her face. 
      “There was not the slighted evidence of an altercation. Her clothing was in perfect order. She was wearing a delicate silk blouse which could have been easily torn, but it was not. Even her fingernails were in perfect condition. Nothing at all to suggest foul play”, Alexandrov had told the Express.
      Psychologist Dr Varma Deyalsingh said that Survivor's Guilt can develop when those suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) seek to connect with those who died.
      “People ask why do they have Survivor's Guilt? It seems it's because it is preferable to blame ourselves for things outside of our control than to accept our situation for which we are completely helpless. Survivor's Guilt is also a way to express the connection with those who have died. It's a method of trying to keep them alive in your mind because of guilty feelings since you survived”.
      She was happy
      Mohan's husband, Davenand Rampersad told the Express that his wife was a happy woman, but she struggled emotionally after the car crash on November 25, 2015. 
      Mohan was a passenger in a car which collided head-on into a ten wheeler truck that day. 
      Taxi driver Anthony Marcano, 54, and passengers Felecia Ali, 41, and Sherwin Constantine, 54, died almost instantly.
      Rampersad said his wife remembered nothing of how the crash happened, only that she woke up in a hospital bed with her two legs broken, ribs cracked, bruises and lacerations.
      “The accident had a hold on her. She was not the same afterwards. She was depressed knowing that she too could have died. She was depressed because with her injuries she couldn't move for a while. She was very sad for those who died (in the crash), especially Mr Constantine since that was her friend from church. I believe she was sitting next to him in the taxi”, he said. “She said if she had died in the accident she would not have minded. But I used to tell her she shouldn't feel that way, that she should have been grateful that she was the only survivor”.
      Deyalsingh said that Mohan may have been experiencing emotional conflict.
      “If a close friend or family member died in that crash that is a factor that come into play. There are two conflicting emotions – feeling happy that you survived , and then guilty that the others did not. Once you have two conflicting emotions it is like a tug of war in your brain and that could lead to problems”, said Deyalsingh.
      Acute stress
      The psychologist said that such stress could lead to a disorder known as Acute Stress Disorder (ASD). “This is where the person would have nightmares and relive the event. Sometimes they are numb, sometimes they can't go near cars, or a certain area. After a month if the person is still having flashbacks then ASD is labelled Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)”, said Deyalsingh. “We find that people suffering from PTSD have a lot of intrusive thoughts where they relive the traumatic event over and over during the day. There may have been a pre-existing problem of depression, and when something else happens they feel overwhelmed”.
      Rampersad said while his wife's outward appearance was the same following the fatal crash, something has changed on the inside.
      Her smile which attracted him more than seven years before at a convention of Jehovah Witnesses at the Oval in Port of Spain had disappeared.
      The couple was married for five years, and according to Rampersad's mother, Radica Rampersad, “he took his time to get married”.
      Rampersad said after the crash, his wife was warded at hospital for three months, then stayed at her family's home at Aranguez.
      He would often make the journey from Chrysosthom Trace in Mayaro to Aranguez to be at her side.
      After a year and a half she moved back to their marital home.
      Rampersad said that the crash left his wife with a fear of “big trucks”, but he talked her all the way through on their way back to their home.
      But as time passed and he would find her crying, Rampersad knew his wife needed help.
      “If I see her crying and tried to talk to her she would push me away, said 'to leave her alone',” he said. “I asked her if she wanted to get professional help and she said 'no'. I asked her sister to talk to her about it. But it didn't happen. But we were doing counselling in church”.
      Deyalsingh advised that there are free psychological clinics at health centres, hospitals, private institutions that people can access across the country.
      He said that there is also the Community Mental Health and Wellness Clinics at Port of Spain and Barataria where people can seek help following traumatic events.
      Trinidad Express
    • By Bible Speaks
      THE HOPE OF THE RESURRECTION 
      The devil can not prevent the resurrection of those in Jehovah's memory. 
      16 "At that time those who fear Jehovah spoke with one another, each one with his companion, and Jehovah kept paying attention and listening. And a book of remembrance was written before himfor those fearing Jehovah and for those meditating on his name. (Mal 3:16)
      28 "Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice"
      29 "and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment." (John 6:28,29)
      15 "And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."      (Acts 24:15)
       

    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
    • By Bible Speaks
      "The last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing."– 1 Cor.15:26
      Perfected mankind will then stand before Jehovah as fully approved for everlasting life. jw.org

      IMG_0719.mov
      Tap screen for sound ? 
    • By admin
      Wanna kill yourself? Imagine this. You come home from school one day. You’ve had yet another horrible day. You’re just ready to give up. So you go to your room, close the door, and take out that suicide note you’ve written and rewritten over and over and over You take out those razor blades, and cut for the very last time. You grab that bottle of pills and take them all. Laying down, holding the letter to your chest, you close your eyes for the very last time. A few hours later, your little brother knocks on your door to come tell you dinners ready. You don’t answer, so he walks in. All he sees is you laying on your bed, so he thinks you’re asleep. He tells your mom this. Your mom goes to your room to wake you up. She notices something is odd. She grabs the paper in your hand and reads it. Sobbing, she tries to wake you up. She’s screaming your name. Your brother, so confused, runs to go tell Dad that “Mommy is crying and sissy won’t wake up.” Your dad runs to your room. He looks at your mom, crying, holding the letter to her chest, sitting next to your lifeless body. It hits him, what’s going on, and he screams. He screams and throws something at the wall. And then, falling to his knees, he starts to cry. Your mom crawls over to him, and they sit there, holding each other, crying. The next day at school, there’s an announcement. The principal tells everyone about your suicide. It takes a few seconds for it to sink in, and once it does, everyone goes silent. Everyone blames themselves. Your teachers think they were too hard on you. Those mean popular girls, they think of all the things they’ve said to you. That boy that used to tease you and call you names, he can’t help but hate himself for never telling you how beautiful you really are. Your ex boyfriend, the one that you told everything to, that broke up with you.. He can’t handle it. He breaks down and starts crying, and runs out of the school. Your friends? They’re sobbing too, wondering how they could never see that anything was wrong, wishing they could have helped you before it was too late. And your best friend? She’s in shock. She can’t believe it. She knew what you were going through, but she never thought it would get that bad… Bad enough for you to end it. She can’t cry, she can’t feel anything. She stands up, walks out of the classroom, and just sinks to the floor. Shaking, screaming, but no tears coming out. It’s a few days later, at your funeral. The whole town came. Everyone knew you, that girl with the bright smile and bubbly personality. The one that was always there for them, the shoulder to cry on. Lots of people talk about all the good memories they had with you, there were a lot. Everyone’s crying, your little brother still doesn’t know you killed yourself, he’s too young. Your parents just said you died. It hurts him, a lot. You were his big sister, you were supposed to always be there for him. Your best friend, she stays strong through the entire service, but as soon as they start lowering your casket into the ground, she just loses it. She cries and cries and doesn’t stop for days. It’s two years later. Your teachers all quit their job. Those mean girls have eating disorders now. That boy that used to tease you cuts himself. Your ex boyfriend doesn’t know how to love anymore and just sleeps around with girls. Your friends all go into depression. Your best friend? She tried to kill herself. She didn’t succeed like you did, but she tried…your brother? He finally found out the truth about your death. He self harms, he cries at night, he does exactly what you did for years leading up to your suicide. Your parents? Their marriage fell apart. Your dad became a workaholic to distract himself from your death. Your mom got diagnosed with depression and just lays in bed all day. People care. You may not think so, but they do. Your choices don’t just effect you. They effect everyone. Don’t end your life, you have so much to live for. Things can’t get better if you give up. I’m here for absolutely anyone that needs to talk, no matter who you are. Even if we’ve NEVER talked before, I’m here for you. Let's see who actually read all of it.
      For anyone that feels this way ??
      Could 1 friend, please share? We are trying to demonstrate that someone's always listening.
      #SuicideAwareness 1-800-273-8255
    • By JayDubya
      When our brothers lose a loved one, we often say, 'at least we have the resurrection hope.'  This is true, however, the Bible refers to death as a 'sting'.   It hurts and it doesn't go away as quickly as a bee.   
      I lost two parents in 20 days- Two funerals in 30 days.  At least I have the resurrection hope.   

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