All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Vic Vomidog:

I first thought your story was a W.O.P.R.

When I started reading your post I was suspicious ... but everything you say checks out. I even learned that you were born January 12, 1992, in Urbana Illinois, the youngest of two other brothers.

[Arauna]

7 hours ago, AlanF said:

comment has nothing to do with chronology

It has- ( only the comment about the festival of Akito)  but the other is about developments in our timeline.  

I think AlanF should do some deeper thinking... but I think he is incapable of that.  He sees but does not see because he  summarily dismisses it  - if it does not fit his personal narrative.... too smart for his own good.

1 hour ago, Vic Vomidog said:

that my mind was slipping—I could feel it, but he didn’t stop and he was trying to put implants in me for brain-control! “Stop, Dave,” I pleaded. “Will you stop, Dave?! My mind is slipping. I can feel it. I can feel it.”

Are you for real?      Because you did nothing to expose him it has created such a hate and resentment in yourself which you have to live with...     Now you are blaming those who did not know about it! 

[AlanF]

AlanF quoted J. F. Rutherford:

Quote

    As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in 1925. . .

Quote

 

TrueTomHarley said:
     
If you actually read things before you worked on your rebuttal, you would see that @Arauna‘s comment has nothing to do with chronology.

It has to do with political developments that she has in position to know that will make you wish the end had come, even should you be on the wrong side.

 

If you had any brains you'd see that Arauna made a prediction that the world will end Real Soon Now, and that my various quotes such as the above showed how the Watchtower Society has made many false predictions of "the end", such as for 1925. Like Mommy like daughter.

And if you had any integrity you'd not have chopped off "1925" from my quote. You're now actually stooping to deliberate misquoting to make a point. Like Mommy like son.

[Vic Vomidog]

8 minutes ago, AlanF said:

And if you had any integrity you'd not have chopped off "1925" from my quote.

He doesn’t! TrueTom doesn’t That’s what I have been trying to tell you!

I checked what you said! You were right! You always are!!!!!

He said that you said and he was right because you really said it but then you said one word more which he did not say that you said even though you did say it because he has no integrity like you said!!!: You said and he said that you said: “As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in” but what he didn’t say but you did was that you said it was 1925 at the end but he didn’t say 1925 at the end like you did because he is a disgusting apologist for Mommy Watchtower!!!  You caught him!!!!

You should scare him with his own book that he is super stitches over. You should say, “and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life!” That is in Revelation and it will PROVE that he is a hypocrite!!

Do you see how this will show it? Because the verse in his Bible says that you should not take away ANYTHING from your words and he did! He thought that nobody would notice because he said almost all of the words that you said but not all of the words because he left out the last one but it says that he has to say ALL the words so he does not get life because he didn’t!!!

Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!! He is such a liar and so dumb. You are too smart and you catch him every time.

[AlanF]

We can see just how astute Arauna is from the following:Here Arauna quotes TrueTomHarley and thinks that she's quoting me:
     

Quote

 

    6 hours ago, AlanF said:

    comment has nothing to do with chronology

It has - I think you should do some deeper thinking... but I think you are incapable of that.  You see something and summarily dismiss it  - if it does not fit your personal narrative.... too smart for your own good.

 

Note clearly: the above quote was from TrueTomHarley, not me. Go back and reread the post if you can manage to hit the proper buttons on your keyboard.

Quote

 

    58 minutes ago, Vic Vomidog said:

    that my mind was slipping—I could feel it, but he didn’t stop and he was trying to put implants in me for brain-control! “Stop, Dave,” I pleaded. “Will you stop, Dave?! My mind is slipping. I can feel it. I can feel it.”

Are you for real?      Because you did nothing to expose him it has created such a hate and resentment in yourself which you have to live with...     Now you are blaming those who did not know about it!

 

Clueless as always. Vic Vomidog (TrueTomHarley) was trying to be funny by stealing a few lines from the 1968 movie "2001: A Space Odyssey" where the AI computer goes rogue and the hero tries to deal with it.

Probably no one should fault you for not knowing such Americana, but you should have enough sense not to post when you should know that you don't know what you're talking about.

[Arauna]

50 minutes ago, AlanF said:

will end Real Soon Now, and that my various quotes such as the above showed how the Watchtower Society has made many false predictions of "the end", such as for 1925. Like Mommy like daughter.

I can see by this statement that you have no clue about developments in the world.  In next three years - China will become a threat......to patrol the seas with all the ports it has already acquired and still expanding..... and economic pushing going on as we speak.  Their purpose? To control the wealth of the world.  They are taking over all mining minerals and gold in Africa and the Asian Seas close to Australia.  Also building the new silk road. Russia doing the same - expanding influence. Daniel 11:40 onward.... America has been sleeping while their all their intellectual property was stolen when they moved IT factories to China.  China installing G5 technology in Europe for surveillance..... and the list goes on.

The racial acrimony in USA is growing as is the political strife ( between clay and iron) daniel 2:  43,44.  Some commentators call it the "new cold civil war" .  The new anti-white sentiment is growing as is the anti-Christian, anti-patriarcal sentiment.  The new aggressive feminism inspired by Frankfort School together with anti-western hate inspired by all the funding coming into USA by front organizations by countries like Qatar, China, and other Islamic extreme organizations which openly do business in USA...... because money is the God of USA.

UN is already giving orders behind the scenes with agreements that were signed by 176 nations.......Agenda 21, Agenda 2030 and UN Migration Compact 2018. Another prophecy going into fulfillment which by the way, mommy WT identified as - UN or a  coalition of nations - years ago.

Things are moving ...... not  exactly in timing as mommy WT organization predicted BUT as the bible predicted........ and you are the scoffer in this picture! 

So please go do some more delving into stuff written by mommy WT organization in 1879  - 1970...... and judge her by the inadequate laws and info she had then..... Please do waste your time on the past while the present is going by and you remain so busy delving into the rubbish mommy WT has long ago  discarded and moved on.......

Feed your hate ....and superiority....... it will get you a feeling of 'temporary' satisfaction (an adrenal buzz) for sure

 

[Anna]

10 hours ago, AlanF said:

Well then, if God didn't appoint Greenlees, how can you think he appointed the others? And which ones do you think that God did appoint? And how would you know?

 

10 hours ago, AlanF said:

AlanF: But that all depends on whether the men applying the scriptures do so perfectly. If they do not, then holy spirit could not have appointed the man.

Anna: No it does not, it does not depend on that. No man can apply the scriptures perfectly. If they could, then there would be no need for Jesus to die. Also, man judges only by what he can see.

AlanF:What you've just argued -- correctly, I might add -- is that JW elders are NOT appointed by holy spirit, but by imperfect men who may or may not have properly applied the scriptures.

Just because men may or may not apply scripture properly does not automatically mean all elders are NOT appointed by holy spirit. In any case, this is really a different matter altogether. No one can apply scripture perfectly, but they can do their best, however, in the case under discussion, the appointment of elders, men are limited through no fault of their own, because they can only act on what they see, they can't help that. They might be applying the scripture quite correctly, but it's contingent on the person they are considering appointing to actually qualify. But, and we are going round in circles, the elders can only see what is apparent. Therefore logically, if they really do not meet these qualifications, because they have deceptively hidden some pertinent details, or if it was assumed that past sins will no longer occur but they do, then holy spirit was not involved in the appointing, regardless whether men have appointed the person or not. So there are three scenarios, correct appointment,  erroneous appointment, and appointment that is later withdrawn. In the second scenario, the erroneous appointment,  it can happen that a prospective candidate, who is married, is very clever at hiding the fact that he has a lover on the side. Outwardly, he meets all the requirements, and he is appointed an elder. No holy spirit involved there, obviously. Then in the third case, there is the candidate who really meets all the requirements, he is appointed, and it can be said that holy spirit was involved. However, later, that same man acquires a lover on the side, and keeps it well hidden. It is then obvious that he no longer meets the requirements, and holy spirit is no longer involved.

The third scenario illustrates that holy spirit, once given, doesn't mean it can't be withdrawn. Think Judas Iscariot. Similarly, once someone is appointed by holy spirit, doesn't mean that appointment can't be made obsolete, removed. So how would we know? We may not know. But the scriptures say "that which is carefully hidden WILL be exposed".

12 hours ago, AlanF said:

In particular, you've explained why the JW Governing Body cannot be spirit-appointed -- that they are counterfeits because their claims are false.

I don't see how I've done that. What are they claiming that's false? Just because Greenlees was apparently not appointed by holy spirit, but by men, doesn't mean the same thing applies to all of them.

JWS believe that the head of the congregation is Jesus, and that he knows who is who and what is going on, even though men may not know. So we trust that whatever corrections are needed, they will happen.

12 hours ago, AlanF said:

Quote

I doubt that.

 

Why? I know a great deal of what has been going on behind the scenes.

You mean ex-JWs emailing Angus Stewart?

12 hours ago, AlanF said:

Theoretical exercises are all well and good, but the many court cases where the sordid details of the perpetrator's actions, along with the active covering up done by JW elders, mostly at the direction of the Service Department, prove that JW policy and practice leaves much to be desired, and is often outright criminal.

I am not talking about a theoretical exercise, I am talking about an actual case. I read the whole transcript (all several hundred pages of it).

I can’t comment on cases unless I am able to read all the court transcripts of the case. So you telling me about “sordid details” and “cover ups” is of no real help to me. Although I am not denying that cover ups have happened.

12 hours ago, AlanF said:

This was all so clearly exposed in the ARC proceedings.

Are you talking about victims BCG, and BCB? Because if you are, then I do not recall any attempts at covering up abuse. But I do recall there being inappropriate handling of the issue, for example for the victim to have to face her abuser.  The ARC identified areas such as that, and others, where the policies of JWS could be improved, and then made recommendations. These recommendations were taken on board and are now implemented, and are part of the JW policy on Child Protection. I am sure you have read it. Furthermore as you know, the ARC was set up in recognition of CSA problems in various institutions, not just JWS.

12 hours ago, AlanF said:

he point is about APPOINTMENT by holy spirit. Your reading a book and trying to apply the author's instructions does not in any sense mean that the author has directed you. Following her written directions, and her actively directing you, are completely different things. It's the difference between having Julia Child's cookbook in your kitchen and having Julia Child herself supervising you. Capiche?

This sounds like a case of semantics to me. I could say that Julia Child did not direct me, but I allowed her instructions in the cook book to direct me. And if those instructions were detailed enough, then I probably turned out a good meal. However, if I started chopping the onion in quarters, instead of small pieces, as stated in the recipe, then Julia Child would not be there to personally correct me. So if my meal turned out less than perfect, then it was because I had not followed Julia’s instructions properly, regardless whether she was there in person or not. But really, this is what the Bible is. Christians try to follow it as best as they can. The idea of appointment by holy spirit is a scriptural idea and it is assumed that if one qualifies as per Timothy, then it can be said that one is working in harmony with God and his holy spirit in that appointment, therefore to put it another way: the appointment is by holy spirit. I guess you would prefer appointed in harmony with holy spirit, rather than appointed by it. But don’t think I don’t know the real reason why you are bringing all this up. Your point is that saying “appointed by”, somehow makes the rank and file imagine that this is something special, and under direct guidance of God.  But we have already established that this cannot always be the case. (But also, that does not automatically mean that it is never the case). Regardless, Paul writes Christians should be obedient to those taking the lead. This does not mean we are going to obey indiscriminately. I guess because the apostle Paul assumed that he was talking to intelligent and reasonable people, he did not see the need to insert the proviso “unless they are asking you to do something bad” .  Peter understood, when he said “we must obey God as ruler rather than man”. Which brings me to your next point:

13 hours ago, AlanF said:

The Governing Body, is God's anointed representative, speaks for God and must be obeyed as God would.

No, first and foremost God must be obeyed. So if the GB were to ask someone to do something that is not supported in scripture, or that goes against scripture, no JW should obey.

13 hours ago, AlanF said:

But we've already concluded that the GB is NOT appointed by God, by holy spirit. Rather, its members are appointed by imperfect men, who were in turn appointed by other imperfect men, all the way back to Rutherford. In no case can it be shown that holy spirit acted upon the ones doing the appointing, or that the appointments were done strictly according to scriptural requirements.

As I said further above, you might have concluded that, but not me. 

Not only me, but most JWS see evidence of God's spirit not only in their lives, but in the way the organization operates, in spite of imperfections. Sorry to disappoint you. 

[Arauna]

On 11/18/2019 at 6:44 PM, JW Insider said:

This is important, too.

Thank you for your good research.  I admit - since I last looked at these things I have been looking at other subjects....  You are welcome to correct me where I err. 

On 11/18/2019 at 12:39 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

double standards and twisting justice in "worldly system", they have chance to replace them by voting.

My friend, this is only a wish these days - justice is becoming a thing for the rich only who can afford good lawyers and get off.  An arabic word describes it perfectly THULM....... it means injustice but the consonants also stand for darkness.  As moral darkness descends on this world I am afraid that suffering is going to escalate because injustice will prevail.

I met an African woman in field service here who was trafficked to different countries because she did not keep quiet about the children taken by the United nations.  She was working at a school when the UN came and said they will look after the children...... and took the teachers with them.  A few days later she found the teachers in jail and the children missing.  She kicked up a fuss  and to quiet her down they took her into custody.  They sent her to an Islamic country and told them she was a criminal, hoping she would be killed..... but instead, they listened to her story..... 

High-up organizations are involved even some of the American Charity foundations.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@Arauna Quote "Things are moving ...... not  exactly in timing as mommy WT organization predicted BUT as the bible predicted."

EXACTLY. The Bible is never wrong. Watchtower and GB and JW Org are OFTEN WRONG. 

Arauna, you are so helpful to us some times. When you actually admit that the W/t GB and JW Org are wrong. 

But go careful, because you could be accused of being Apostate by actually admitting your Org / W/t gets it wrong. 

After all that is why some of us are accused of being Apostate isn't it ? Because we believe God, working through Christ, as ruler, rather than men. 

 

[Arauna]

On 11/17/2019 at 9:51 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

what law JHVH would judge people who lived in different periods of time.

Different situations were present in ancient times. i.e. Israelites were allowed to have a concubine for instance..... BUT Job was a good man because he was generous with his possessions and he was faithful to only one wife - even though se was a nagger - lol.

Does this mean that Jehovah will judge these people by the standards set by Jesus of one wife only?

Yes, the laws of justice, mercy,  being honest are universal laws and will be in effect - no matter what the era or time period..... but some other considerations will also be taken into account.  After all - Jehovah is perfect and he will judge perfectly.  Unfortunately we do not judge perfectly.  Some persons did things as a young stupid person and society still hold them accountable for their entire life and treats them like outcasts....Jehovah can read the heart and he knows.  There are many situations where we cannot judge perfectly.... 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@Arauna Quote " My friend, this is only a wish these days - justice is becoming a thing for the rich only who can afford good lawyers and get off. " 

Not so with JW Child Sexual Abuse Victims. Some of them are not rich but they are getting justice at last. In many countries earthwide CSA victims from many 'walks of life' are getting some justice. Not just in JW Org of course, but it's good to see justice for all victims.

[Arauna]

27 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

but it's good to see justice for all victims.

No, not all. Many sports organizations  and institutions etc have closed down.  But JWs will be accountable for every one.... because we will not close down and operate under a new name.....and it is fair for the victims.

But as usual - the press will only single us out even though the injustice was not "planned" or tolerated.   It is just an extremely sensitive issue and most people - even today - do not completely know how to cope with it because it can destroy families.

Elders who deal with it are under severe strain....  but this is why an elder must excuse himself if he does not feel able to handle it.  Luckily the new laws are in place which stipulate that this crime  must be reported to the authorities - in most first world countries.  So this takes pressure off them.     

32 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

But go careful, because you could be accused

There is nothing wrong with not having the full picture or making a mistake - GB and JWs are imperfect people after all.  But I am absolutely sure that JWs understand the teachings of the bible, they do have a slave that is working hard on the preaching work and giving encouragement at the proper time.

I am sure the bible is absolute reality and Jehovah has a nation on earth which comes from all nations and they do not learn war any more. They have unity because they do apply the bible principles that promote unity as a nation on earth.  Are they perfect people?   By no means.... ordinary people who try to stay faithful to Jehovah and the good and bad he set for us. 

We are NOT better than anyone else ...... just extremely blessed to be drawn by Jehovah and receive his spirit to remain in the truth.  We cannot remain in the truth without his spirit.    For a while they can but eventually the develop a bad attitude.

Of course, a KGB agent can infiltrate JWs and become an alder........ but his motivation is similar to Judas Iscariot. He is paid by the government and supported by them. Jehova will judge him.

Most of us are just simple people who honestly and unhypocritically try to serve Jehovah....  So we remain because Jehovah gives his spirit to us....... and where else can we go where there is one nation under Jehovah?.