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Jack Ryan

All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents

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Jack Ryan -
4Jah2me -

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15 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Yes, @Arauna, an excellent challenge for you. Put each “joke” under the microscope. Analyze it with critical thinking skills to PROVE that it is funny or not funny. Just think how enriched your life will be!

It is like when I watch Colbert. I do not just laugh because the plebeians are laughing—what do they know? I run each joke into the lab for a bevy of tests. If I determine thereby using science that it was funny, I laugh my sides off.

If you actually read things before you worked on your rebuttal, you would see that @Arauna‘s comment has nothing to do with chronology.

It has to do with political developments that she has in position to know that will make you wish the end had come, even should you be on the wrong side.

Let's add to your intellectual sins: totally missing the point.

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10 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I think the Watchtower words were ' make mistakes and err'

So in your eyes does that mean make mistakes and make mistakes  (which makes no sense) 

Or, does it mean make mistakes and deliberately do wrong ?  

You must be reading something into this that isn't there. The quote I think you were trying to remember is probably this:

*** w17 February p. 26 par. 12 Who Is Leading God’s People Today? ***
The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. . . .Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food.


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I can see you being brave telling off all these hypocrites, @AlanF. I love to see this! And you are helping me to overcome my fear! It feels so good after all these years to stand on my own two feet. Even as a boy, I was afraid and people would bully me to make me think I wanted what they did but it was really them!

There was so much mind control at Bethel where I was. There was brain-washing, too. Every Bethelite is watched very carefully by his table head. I think you know this, but maybe you do not know how bad it has gotten since you were there.

My table head was a self-righteous jerk and his name was Dave. He came across all friendly at first, but after a few years I could see he just wanted to control us and report to Mommy Watchtower if anyone started thinking for himself. 

He watched me closely and everyone assigned to his table. Once he noticed that I was the first one to stop clapping after a GB member gave a talk and then he REALLY watched me! He gave me the creeps. He was so weird. But that is only the beginning! It got worse!

I was in my Bethel bed almost asleep and I heard a key slip very quietly into the lock and turn it. Dave creeped into the room! He scared the sh*t out of me.! I almost yelled “What do you think you’re doing, Dave?!” He didn’t answer, and crept closer and closer and it was like in a nightmare that wouldn’t stop. It seemed that I was frozen there and didn’t have a body and I was helpless as he kept approaching me—the filthy pervert!

He touched my head with both of his pervert hands and it began to feel like he was sucking out my life! It was like he slowly pulled out my brain lobes one at a time, so that I couldn’t even think at the horrible thing he was doing! “Stop, Dave,” I pleaded, but he would not. 

I told him that my mind was slipping—I could feel it, but he didn’t stop and he was trying to put implants in me for brain-control! “Stop, Dave,” I pleaded. “Will you stop, Dave?! My mind is slipping. I can feel it. I can feel it.”

He kept brainwashing me! I hate him. “I’m afraid, Dave!” I pleaded, “Dave.....I’m.....afraid.....Dave,” but he would not stop and then I was so scared I started to sing a silly song my mother taught me.

Seeing how brave you are and smart gives me courage. You will never know how you have helped me. Thank you very much. I hope I can repay you and make all exJWs proud of me.

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7 hours ago, AlanF said:

comment has nothing to do with chronology

It has- ( only the comment about the festival of Akito)  but the other is about developments in our timeline.  

I think AlanF should do some deeper thinking... but I think he is incapable of that.  He sees but does not see because he  summarily dismisses it  - if it does not fit his personal narrative.... too smart for his own good.

1 hour ago, Vic Vomidog said:

that my mind was slipping—I could feel it, but he didn’t stop and he was trying to put implants in me for brain-control! “Stop, Dave,” I pleaded. “Will you stop, Dave?! My mind is slipping. I can feel it. I can feel it.”

Are you for real?      Because you did nothing to expose him it has created such a hate and resentment in yourself which you have to live with...     Now you are blaming those who did not know about it! 

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AlanF quoted J. F. Rutherford:


    As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in 1925. . .



TrueTomHarley said:
If you actually read things before you worked on your rebuttal, you would see that @Arauna‘s comment has nothing to do with chronology.

It has to do with political developments that she has in position to know that will make you wish the end had come, even should you be on the wrong side.


If you had any brains you'd see that Arauna made a prediction that the world will end Real Soon Now, and that my various quotes such as the above showed how the Watchtower Society has made many false predictions of "the end", such as for 1925. Like Mommy like daughter.

And if you had any integrity you'd not have chopped off "1925" from my quote. You're now actually stooping to deliberate misquoting to make a point. Like Mommy like son.

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8 minutes ago, AlanF said:

And if you had any integrity you'd not have chopped off "1925" from my quote.

He doesn’t! TrueTom doesn’t That’s what I have been trying to tell you!

I checked what you said! You were right! You always are!!!!!

He said that you said and he was right because you really said it but then you said one word more which he did not say that you said even though you did say it because he has no integrity like you said!!!: You said and he said that you said: “As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in” but what he didn’t say but you did was that you said it was 1925 at the end but he didn’t say 1925 at the end like you did because he is a disgusting apologist for Mommy Watchtower!!!  You caught him!!!!

You should scare him with his own book that he is super stitches over. You should say, “and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life!” That is in Revelation and it will PROVE that he is a hypocrite!!

Do you see how this will show it? Because the verse in his Bible says that you should not take away ANYTHING from your words and he did! He thought that nobody would notice because he said almost all of the words that you said but not all of the words because he left out the last one but it says that he has to say ALL the words so he does not get life because he didn’t!!!

Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!! He is such a liar and so dumb. You are too smart and you catch him every time.

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We can see just how astute Arauna is from the following:Here Arauna quotes TrueTomHarley and thinks that she's quoting me:



    6 hours ago, AlanF said:

    comment has nothing to do with chronology

It has - I think you should do some deeper thinking... but I think you are incapable of that.  You see something and summarily dismiss it  - if it does not fit your personal narrative.... too smart for your own good.


Note clearly: the above quote was from TrueTomHarley, not me. Go back and reread the post if you can manage to hit the proper buttons on your keyboard.



    58 minutes ago, Vic Vomidog said:

    that my mind was slipping—I could feel it, but he didn’t stop and he was trying to put implants in me for brain-control! “Stop, Dave,” I pleaded. “Will you stop, Dave?! My mind is slipping. I can feel it. I can feel it.”

Are you for real?      Because you did nothing to expose him it has created such a hate and resentment in yourself which you have to live with...     Now you are blaming those who did not know about it!


Clueless as always. Vic Vomidog (TrueTomHarley) was trying to be funny by stealing a few lines from the 1968 movie "2001: A Space Odyssey" where the AI computer goes rogue and the hero tries to deal with it.

Probably no one should fault you for not knowing such Americana, but you should have enough sense not to post when you should know that you don't know what you're talking about.

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50 minutes ago, AlanF said:

will end Real Soon Now, and that my various quotes such as the above showed how the Watchtower Society has made many false predictions of "the end", such as for 1925. Like Mommy like daughter.

I can see by this statement that you have no clue about developments in the world.  In next three years - China will become a threat......to patrol the seas with all the ports it has already acquired and still expanding..... and economic pushing going on as we speak.  Their purpose? To control the wealth of the world.  They are taking over all mining minerals and gold in Africa and the Asian Seas close to Australia.  Also building the new silk road. Russia doing the same - expanding influence. Daniel 11:40 onward.... America has been sleeping while their all their intellectual property was stolen when they moved IT factories to China.  China installing G5 technology in Europe for surveillance..... and the list goes on.

The racial acrimony in USA is growing as is the political strife ( between clay and iron) daniel 2:  43,44.  Some commentators call it the "new cold civil war" .  The new anti-white sentiment is growing as is the anti-Christian, anti-patriarcal sentiment.  The new aggressive feminism inspired by Frankfort School together with anti-western hate inspired by all the funding coming into USA by front organizations by countries like Qatar, China, and other Islamic extreme organizations which openly do business in USA...... because money is the God of USA.

UN is already giving orders behind the scenes with agreements that were signed by 176 nations.......Agenda 21, Agenda 2030 and UN Migration Compact 2018. Another prophecy going into fulfillment which by the way, mommy WT identified as - UN or a  coalition of nations - years ago.

Things are moving ...... not  exactly in timing as mommy WT organization predicted BUT as the bible predicted........ and you are the scoffer in this picture! 

So please go do some more delving into stuff written by mommy WT organization in 1879  - 1970...... and judge her by the inadequate laws and info she had then..... Please do waste your time on the past while the present is going by and you remain so busy delving into the rubbish mommy WT has long ago  discarded and moved on.......

Feed your hate ....and superiority....... it will get you a feeling of 'temporary' satisfaction (an adrenal buzz) for sure


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10 hours ago, AlanF said:

Well then, if God didn't appoint Greenlees, how can you think he appointed the others? And which ones do you think that God did appoint? And how would you know?


10 hours ago, AlanF said:

AlanF: But that all depends on whether the men applying the scriptures do so perfectly. If they do not, then holy spirit could not have appointed the man.

Anna: No it does not, it does not depend on that. No man can apply the scriptures perfectly. If they could, then there would be no need for Jesus to die. Also, man judges only by what he can see.

AlanF:What you've just argued -- correctly, I might add -- is that JW elders are NOT appointed by holy spirit, but by imperfect men who may or may not have properly applied the scriptures.

Just because men may or may not apply scripture properly does not automatically mean all elders are NOT appointed by holy spirit. In any case, this is really a different matter altogether. No one can apply scripture perfectly, but they can do their best, however, in the case under discussion, the appointment of elders, men are limited through no fault of their own, because they can only act on what they see, they can't help that. They might be applying the scripture quite correctly, but it's contingent on the person they are considering appointing to actually qualify. But, and we are going round in circles, the elders can only see what is apparent. Therefore logically, if they really do not meet these qualifications, because they have deceptively hidden some pertinent details, or if it was assumed that past sins will no longer occur but they do, then holy spirit was not involved in the appointing, regardless whether men have appointed the person or not. So there are three scenarios, correct appointment,  erroneous appointment, and appointment that is later withdrawn. In the second scenario, the erroneous appointment,  it can happen that a prospective candidate, who is married, is very clever at hiding the fact that he has a lover on the side. Outwardly, he meets all the requirements, and he is appointed an elder. No holy spirit involved there, obviously. Then in the third case, there is the candidate who really meets all the requirements, he is appointed, and it can be said that holy spirit was involved. However, later, that same man acquires a lover on the side, and keeps it well hidden. It is then obvious that he no longer meets the requirements, and holy spirit is no longer involved.

The third scenario illustrates that holy spirit, once given, doesn't mean it can't be withdrawn. Think Judas Iscariot. Similarly, once someone is appointed by holy spirit, doesn't mean that appointment can't be made obsolete, removed. So how would we know? We may not know. But the scriptures say "that which is carefully hidden WILL be exposed".

12 hours ago, AlanF said:

In particular, you've explained why the JW Governing Body cannot be spirit-appointed -- that they are counterfeits because their claims are false.

I don't see how I've done that. What are they claiming that's false? Just because Greenlees was apparently not appointed by holy spirit, but by men, doesn't mean the same thing applies to all of them.

JWS believe that the head of the congregation is Jesus, and that he knows who is who and what is going on, even though men may not know. So we trust that whatever corrections are needed, they will happen.

12 hours ago, AlanF said:

I doubt that.


Why? I know a great deal of what has been going on behind the scenes.

You mean ex-JWs emailing Angus Stewart?

12 hours ago, AlanF said:

Theoretical exercises are all well and good, but the many court cases where the sordid details of the perpetrator's actions, along with the active covering up done by JW elders, mostly at the direction of the Service Department, prove that JW policy and practice leaves much to be desired, and is often outright criminal.

I am not talking about a theoretical exercise, I am talking about an actual case. I read the whole transcript (all several hundred pages of it).

I can’t comment on cases unless I am able to read all the court transcripts of the case. So you telling me about “sordid details” and “cover ups” is of no real help to me. Although I am not denying that cover ups have happened.

12 hours ago, AlanF said:

This was all so clearly exposed in the ARC proceedings.

Are you talking about victims BCG, and BCB? Because if you are, then I do not recall any attempts at covering up abuse. But I do recall there being inappropriate handling of the issue, for example for the victim to have to face her abuser.  The ARC identified areas such as that, and others, where the policies of JWS could be improved, and then made recommendations. These recommendations were taken on board and are now implemented, and are part of the JW policy on Child Protection. I am sure you have read it. Furthermore as you know, the ARC was set up in recognition of CSA problems in various institutions, not just JWS.

12 hours ago, AlanF said:

he point is about APPOINTMENT by holy spirit. Your reading a book and trying to apply the author's instructions does not in any sense mean that the author has directed you. Following her written directions, and her actively directing you, are completely different things. It's the difference between having Julia Child's cookbook in your kitchen and having Julia Child herself supervising you. Capiche?

This sounds like a case of semantics to me. I could say that Julia Child did not direct me, but I allowed her instructions in the cook book to direct me. And if those instructions were detailed enough, then I probably turned out a good meal. However, if I started chopping the onion in quarters, instead of small pieces, as stated in the recipe, then Julia Child would not be there to personally correct me. So if my meal turned out less than perfect, then it was because I had not followed Julia’s instructions properly, regardless whether she was there in person or not. But really, this is what the Bible is. Christians try to follow it as best as they can. The idea of appointment by holy spirit is a scriptural idea and it is assumed that if one qualifies as per Timothy, then it can be said that one is working in harmony with God and his holy spirit in that appointment, therefore to put it another way: the appointment is by holy spirit. I guess you would prefer appointed in harmony with holy spirit, rather than appointed by it. But don’t think I don’t know the real reason why you are bringing all this up. Your point is that saying “appointed by”, somehow makes the rank and file imagine that this is something special, and under direct guidance of God.  But we have already established that this cannot always be the case. (But also, that does not automatically mean that it is never the case). Regardless, Paul writes Christians should be obedient to those taking the lead. This does not mean we are going to obey indiscriminately. I guess because the apostle Paul assumed that he was talking to intelligent and reasonable people, he did not see the need to insert the proviso “unless they are asking you to do something bad” .  Peter understood, when he said “we must obey God as ruler rather than man”. Which brings me to your next point:

13 hours ago, AlanF said:

The Governing Body, is God's anointed representative, speaks for God and must be obeyed as God would.

No, first and foremost God must be obeyed. So if the GB were to ask someone to do something that is not supported in scripture, or that goes against scripture, no JW should obey.

13 hours ago, AlanF said:

But we've already concluded that the GB is NOT appointed by God, by holy spirit. Rather, its members are appointed by imperfect men, who were in turn appointed by other imperfect men, all the way back to Rutherford. In no case can it be shown that holy spirit acted upon the ones doing the appointing, or that the appointments were done strictly according to scriptural requirements.

As I said further above, you might have concluded that, but not me. 

Not only me, but most JWS see evidence of God's spirit not only in their lives, but in the way the organization operates, in spite of imperfections. Sorry to disappoint you. 

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      Under another topic which was unrelated to child abuse issues, the claim was put forward (again) that JWs may have only a tenth of the problem that others have with child abuse. As TTH put it recently:
      TTH has stated this multiple times and in various ways now, also stating that JWs have found "a solution that cuts occurrences by 90%." TTH didn't start this idea, it was in another persons post, which may have based it on some very questionable numbers that came out of the Australian Royal Commission.
      I don't know if anyone can give an accurate accounting statistically, but if we are going to make such statements it's a good idea to start somewhere to see why they are being used. I will first present some numbers which appear to contradict the claim, and anyone who has anything different should, of course, join in if they think it's important to figure it out more accurately.
      In past months, I reported on the outrageous numbers that have been reported against the Catholic Church institutions, including their schools, where 7% of all Catholic priests have been accused of child abuse. Of course this represents an average in various diocese and institutions, where it might run as low as 0% in some, and as high as 25% in others. Even a high percentage of Catholic nuns in one institution had been accused of child sexual abuse. The nuns had a relatively small percentage when compared to another institution where the rate of accused priests and "Brothers" reached nearly 40%. It was a Catholic institution that was set up to care for children with mental disabilities. [The term "Brothers" in this context is a title which doesn't have the generic meaning it has among JWs.]  The BBC interviewed several people who seriously stated that the Catholic Church should be charged with running a "criminal" organization.
      I think it is probably obvious to all of us that such levels of child abuse among the highest levels of church institutional leaders cannot be compared with the Witnesses, where the problem is not nearly so bad. There are also issues of comparing Catholic leaders such as bishops, priests and deacons and the counting of all problems among the entire congregations of JWs, not just elders and ministerial servants ("deacons"). But this doesn't mean the problem is not bad.
      I'll start throwing out some quotes I've read about what the ARC reported about JWs, the Uniting Church, and the Catholic Church. [The Uniting Church is a kind of conglomerate of Presbyterian/Methodist/Congregationalist churches in Australia.]
      You may need a subscription to this Australian paper "The Australian" or an account with a university or newspapers.com to see the entire content of the article that shows up in Google as follows for MEDIA WATCH DOG Friday March 17, 2017 :
      Here’s some news which the ABC and Fairfax Media do not regard as fit-to-print. Over the past four decades, a child in Australia was much more likely to suffer sexual abuse at a school or institution run by the Uniting Church than at a school or institution run by the Catholic Church.
      The ABC and Fairfax Media – along with The Guardian and The Saturday Paper – have given extensive coverage to allegations against the Catholic Church made at the Royal Commission Into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse. The ABC’s Samantha Donovan and Philippa McDonald and Louise Milligan along with Fairfax Media’s Rachel Browne and Joanne McCarthy have been perhaps the most outspoken of the journalists regularly reporting the Royal Commission in so far as the crimes of pedophile Catholic priests and brothers have been concerned.
      The ABC and Fairfax Media gave considerable coverage to the statement by Counsel Assisting Gail Furness SC on 6 February 2017 that 4445 people alleged instances of child sexual abuse within Catholic schools or institutions up until 2015. Most media focused on the statement by Ms Furness that “7 per cent of priests were alleged perpetrators”.
      However, virtually no media attention was given to Ms Furness’s subsequent clarification on 16 February 2017, with reference to the Catholic Church:
      In other words, within the Catholic Church the vast majority of allegations of pedophilia were made with respect to alleged crimes in the period 1950 to 1989 with close to a third of all allegations relating to the decade of the 1970s. That is, most of the allegations relate to instances of close to four decades ago and are historical crimes.
      In what was called the “Catholic Wrap”, Royal Commission chairman Justice Peter McClellan devoted 15 entire days to examining the Catholic Church. Hearings were held between 6 February 2017 and 26 February 2017.
      On Friday 10 March 2017, the Royal Commission devoted only half a day each to the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Uniting Church of Australia. Yet the evidence suggests that, on a per capita basis, there were more pedophiles in each church combined than in the Catholic Church – especially in the 1990s and subsequent decades. . . .
      The statistics available to the Royal Commission with respect to the Uniting Church cover the period from 1977 to the present. That is, unlike the Catholic Church and the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the allegations do not relate to a period going back to 1950.
      There were 2504 instances or allegations of child sexual abuse made in the Uniting Church in the period 1977 to 2017 compared with 4445 instances in the Catholic Church covering the period 1950 to 2015. Yet the Uniting Church is about a fifth of the size of the Catholic Church. And its data covers four decades whereas the Catholic Church’s data covers over six decades. Moreover, evidence available to the Royal Commission indicates that virtually all offending by Catholic priests took place before 1990. Not so, apparently, with the Uniting Church.
      On this evidence, child sexual assaults in the Uniting Church have been more prevalent than in the Catholic Church – especially in the years since 1990. This despite the fact that the Uniting Church has married male priests and female priests. There is no celibacy requirement within the Uniting Church and no sacrament of confession (in which the Royal Commission has taken a special interest concerning the Catholic Church).
      Yet you would not be aware of any of this if you followed only the reporting of the Royal Commission by the ABC, Fairfax Media, The Guardian and The Saturday Paper. It seems the likes of Samantha Donovan, Philippa McDonald, Louise Milligan, Joanne McCarthy and Rachel Browne did not come back from lunch on Friday 10 February and simply missed the coverage of sexual child abuse in the Uniting Church in the four decades since 1977.
      ---end of quotation-----
      I downloaded that Excel spreadsheet from the ARC (once posted here) that gave limited information about each of the JW cases, and should note that even cases that went back to the 1970's were evidently not there because there was any regular record-keeping by JWs going back that far. They could have been included when a case recorded decades later was found to be applicable to an instance or accusation from a much earlier date.
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      This just in from the Charlotte, NC Charlotte Observer Newspaper:
      Sex abuse cases against Jehovah's Witnesses church settled
      "The Associated Press   March 06, 2018 07:50 PM
      Updated 1 hour 41 minutes ago
      SAN DIEGO Two men who say they were sexually abused by a leader at Jehovah's Witnesses congregations in San Diego in the 1990s have settled their lawsuits against the church's governing body.
      The San Diego Union-Tribune reports Tuesday that the settlements were finalized last week. Both sides say they aren't authorized to discuss the terms.
      A New York state appeals court in November upheld $4,000-a-day penalty against Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York for failing to comply with a court order to hand over internal documents about knowledge of church leaders who had been accused of sexually abusing children.
      Both plaintiffs say church elders knew of the abuse as early as 1982 but covered it up and allowed the leader to keep working with children."
      In this case,  the Courts SUBPOENAED the records ( demanding that they appear ...) and it cost the WTB&TS $4,000 a day for every day THEY REFUSED.  Several months ago, it was up to 2.1 million dollars. 
      What breaks my heart is that children are giving their ice cream money to an organization that pays a team of supposedly theocratic  lawyers ... to ACTIVELY obstruct Justice ..... for MONEY!
      Same thing is going on in Delaware as we speak.

      Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article203828784.html#storylink=cpy
    • By Bible Speaks
      New Judicial front against Watchtower
      In The Quebec Court, Canada, a lawsuit has been filed for 66 million Canadian dollars, against the organization of Jehovah's witnesses in Canada and the United States, on behalf of alleged victims of child abuse while they were Jehovah's Witnesses.
      We do not hide that opponents, who are led by professional apostates, are being organized as a group, to attack the finances of the Watchtower, trying for all the means to sink it economically.

    • By Bible Speaks
      The Quebec court requests the adoption of a collective demand for sexual abuse against Jehovah's witnesses
      A trial proposes to accuse the leadership of the religious organization in Canada and the United States to protect alleged abusers
      The lawsuit is looking for $ 250.000 per plaintiff for moral and punitive damages.
      Radio-Canada says that, if approved by the court, collective action will be the first of its kind against Jehovah's witnesses, a religious movement that is already the subject of several individual trials in the United States.
      It is now up to the québec high court to determine whether the application is sufficiently substantiated to authorize collective action.

    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Quebec provincial police are investigating allegations of child sexual abuse by two members of a Jehovah’s Witnesses congregation in Mont-Laurier in the Laurentians, Radio-CanadaÂ’s investigative program Enquête has learned.
      Both men have been sanctioned through the churchÂ’s internal disciplinary process for dealing with allegations of child abuse, but congregation elders did not share their findings with civil authorities.
      One of the men being investigated, Michel Courtemanche, who has been expelled from the congregation, was acquitted of charges of sexual assault and indecent assault in 1996.
      However, the Sûreté du Québec has renewed its investigation of Courtemanche and has begun investigating another man, former congregation elder Georges Leclerc, based on new evidence from at least seven alleged victims.
      Leclerc has been stripped of his status as an elder, but he has not been arrested or charged, and he refused to speak with Enquête.
      Courtemanche has not been arrested or charged as a result of the new investigation and denies the allegations against him. In an interview with Enquête, he pointed to his 1996 acquittal.
      “My answer is there was a judgment on this based on very precise facts, and I was acquitted,” he said.
      At least 7 potential victims, police say
      Enquête spoke with Pénélope Herbert, the woman whose allegations of repeated sexual assaults starting when she was just 10 led to Courtemanche’s 1996 trial.  
      Carolle Poudrier, now in her mid-40s, also told Enquête of alleged sexual contact by Courtemanche, over a period of months when she was 11.
      In the case of Herbert, she said the assaults continued until she was 17 — even after her family moved from Mont-Laurier.
      “He would come to our house to say hello and would sleep over,” Herbert, now 42, told Enquête. “Those nights, he would come to my room. We’re talking total rape, those nights.”
      Carolle Poudrier told Enquête of alleged sexual contact by Michel Courtemanche, over a period of months when she was 11. (Jasmin Simard/Radio-Canada)
      Enquête has learned the SQ has interviewed more than 40 people, of whom seven have been identified as potential victims of either Courtemanche or Leclerc.
      Four of the seven, including Herbert and Poudrier, have now filed formal complaints with police. SQ spokesperson Martine Asselin told Enquête they’re now seeking other possible victims and witnesses.
      “We’re looking to identify other potential victims who perhaps feel they’re alone and aren’t ready to talk,” Asselin said.
      “They should know that investigators are ready to meet with them and witnesses.”
      Both men were friends
      According to Enquête, Leclerc and Courtemanche were friends around the time Herbert’s parents lodged an internal complaint with the congregation about the alleged assaults on their daughter.
      Leclerc was, as a congregation elder, a senior member of the congregation who is responsible for providing religious guidance and ruling on disciplinary matters.
      Enquête said Leclerc allegedly did not speak to Herbert to learn the details of her complaint, as required by Jehovah’s Witness protocols in such matters.
      Courtemanche was later reprimanded and allowed to remain in the congregation.
      Georges Leclerc and Michel Courtemanche were friends around the time Pénélope Herbert’s parents lodged an internal complaint with the congregation, according to Enquête. (Jasmin Simard/Radio-Canada)
      Disillusioned with how the JehovahÂ’s Witnesses had handled her complaint, Herbert took her allegations to police in 1995.
      Courtemanche remained a Jehovah’s Witness after his acquittal but was expelled in 2014, Enquête found, after two other women filed internal complaints alleging he had assaulted them as minors.
      Leclerc remains with the Mont-Laurier congregation, but Enquête says he was stripped of his elder duties after at least three women filed complaints internally with the Jehovah’s Witnesses, alleging he had assaulted them when they were minors.
      Police, youth protection not notified of allegations
      According to Enquête, the first time police investigated Herbert’s allegations against Courtemanche in the mid-1990s, they were not aware Carolle Poudrier’s parents had also alleged Courtemanche had assaulted their daughter.
      Poudrier’s parents were members of a congregation in Terrebonne, just north of Montreal, and had filed their complaint there — not with Courtemanche’s congregation in Mont-Laurier.
      Poudrier alleged that Courtemanche, who was working for her dad, would make her sit on his lap so he could caress and tickle her, which made her uneasy. A few months later, he kissed her twice.
      “He asked me if I’d ever kissed anyone, and he put his tongue in my mouth. I found that disgusting,” Poudrier told Enquête.
      After she told her parents and they complained, Poudrier was made to recount what happened to a congregational elder in the presence of her father.
      Carolle Poudrier told what happened to a congregational elder in the presence of her father. (Jasmin Simard/Radio-Canada)
      “I was really stressed talking about sexual matters with a man I didn’t know, in front of my father. It was embarrassing,” Poudrier said.
      She said the elder thanked her for telling him what had happened and said that “he was there to take care of it.”
      In a lawyer’s letter to Radio-Canada, the elder in question, John MacEwan, said he knew Poudrier’s family but denied meeting with them concerning allegations against Courtemanche.
      When asked by Enquête if the Terrebonne congregation had shared the complaint against Courtemanche with his Mont-Laurier congregation, MacEwan refused to answer.
      Neither police nor youth protection authorities were ever notified of the alleged assaults on Poudrier.
      The JehovahÂ’s Witnesses leadership, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, has given preference to internal judicial procedures and protocols for dealing with matters such as child abuse.
      Carolle PoudrierÂ’s father, left, had worked with Michel Courtemanche, right. (Jasmin Simard/Radio-Canada)
      “In some jurisdictions, individuals who learn of an allegation of child abuse may be obligated by law to report the allegation to the secular authorities,” an internal memo to elders from 2016 reads.
      “In all cases, the victim and her parents have the absolute right to report an allegation to the authorities.”
      When it comes to sharing information with outside authorities, however, the leadership has insisted on maintaining confidentiality, citing privacy and the ecclesiastical privilege conferred by confessions.
      Enquête found there are as many as 30 steps a Jehovah’s Witness must take before that person is allowed to testify in court or furnish civil authorities with church documents, when it comes to matters of child abuse.
      “When you study the process, you realize it’s really a process for avoiding, a system for protecting the reputation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses,”  said Marilou Lagacé, a former Witness interviewed by Enquête.
      New instructions regarding allegations of child sexual abuse
      A recent royal commission in Australia found the JehovahÂ’s Witness church there had recorded allegations of child sexual abuse against 1,006 members over a 60-year period. Not one allegation had been reported to authorities outside the church.
      With pressure mounting in the wake of that royal commission and other allegations of sexual abuse of children in its ranks, on Sept. 1, the Watchtower Society issued new instructions regarding allegations of child sexual abuse.
      Those instructions recognize child sexual abuse as a crime and assert that members should be “clearly informed that they have the right” to report an allegation of abuse to police.
      “The congregation’s handling of an accusation of child sexual abuse is not intended to replace the secular authority’s handling of the matter,” the Sept. 1 letter reads.
      “Therefore, the victim, her parents, or anyone else who reports such an allegation to the elders should be clearly informed that they have the right to report the matter to the secular authorities.
      Elders do not criticize anyone who chooses to make such a report.”

    • By Jack Ryan
      TRANSLATION HERE (Google Translate)
      The victim calls the society with its own legal system a 'paradise for pedophiles'.The way in which Jehovah's Witnesses deal with sexual abuse in-house rooms has traumatic consequences for victims. Criminals easily escape the abuse, say victims, members and ex-members whom Trouw spoke. This creates an unsafe situation for children.Jehovah's Witnesses find that their internal justice system is above the 'worldly authorities'. Male elders act as judges. They follow the guidelines of the International Headquarters in the United States, shown by internal documents held by Trouw.
      Misuse victim Marianne the Guardian: "Jehovah's Witnesses keep the perpetrators hand over the head. Abuse is solved by the first best farmer who is elder, who has no sense. "Another victim calls Jehovah's Witnesses a" paradise for pedophiles. "If misuse is discovered, it is difficult to convict internally. According to the Jehovah's Witnesses, two witnesses are required. They are almost never abused. For example, if it comes to condemnation, the perpetrator may no longer be out loud in prayer.Only if the perpetrator does not regret can he be put out of community. Other members are not informed of any danger because talking about a case without conviction is perceived as defamation or reproach. On the ground someone can be excluded.Insufficient protectionThe findings of Trouw are in line with a report published by an Australian research commission in November. The conclusion: Children are insufficiently protected from abuse and the organization is not adequately addressed with accusations.
      The Jehovah's Witnesses are a Christian society with around 30,000 followers in the Netherlands. About fifteen years ago, the organization in Trouw said that they only registered cases of abuse by officers. The spokesman had never heard of such abuse.However, three of the four victims who allegedly believed to be abused by an elder were declared to be. The Dutch headquarters of the Jehovah's Witnesses in Emmen reveal that they would now "nuance more" the earlier statement. The organization does not want to engage in individual abuse cases.She says working on the 'resilience' of children and families and discussing sexuality without 'veil of mystery'. And: 'Protecting our children is taken very seriously'.That response is indicative of the way the organization tries to stay out of place, says Frances Peters, ex-witness and coach for people from compelling religious group cultures. "They say, the children must be more resilient, while they should protect them properly."Perhaps more victimsThe abuse that victims talked to victims took place in the eighties and nineties. Victims and experts say the abuse is still taking place. There are virtually no indications that the policy of Jehovah's Witnesses has been adapted.However, the organization against this newspaper says "to constantly review its procedures in order to improve the way we deal with such issues". And: "When it comes to child abuse, Jehovah's Witnesses have a clear policy based on biblical principles."According to Peters, the organization emphasized in 2002 and 2003 during a training for elders that abuse is a crime that must be dealt with by the government. "This is allowed on paper to report to the police. But the change is nowhere communicated to the members. "For reports and reports for sexual abuse, no recent reports of (ex-) witnesses are known. The Sektesignal notification point does not want to name organizations, but lets know that "these types of alerts come across all kinds of groups."According to Peters, there are no reports of witnesses: "Victims often blame themselves for the abuse. If things are done internally, that means someone has dared to open his mouth. But the chance is that there are many more victims who never dared.
      "Read also:- The story of victim Marianne Voogd: "This is our secret. When you open your mouth, I'll do something to you. "- The story of an elder who wanted to help an abused girl: Elder is a detective, judge and psychologist-
      Who are Jehovah's Witnesses actually? Read all you need to know.
    • By Jack Ryan
      JW had multiple allegations of rape
      Once Noticias Honduras, May 26, 2017
      His victims are girls between 12 and 13 years of age. The authorities have not disclosed which congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses the accused belongs to.
      More than five reports of rape filed by minors between 12 and 13 years old had the prosecution against Roger Abraham Flores Diaz, 45, the Jehovah's Witnesses preacher arrested last night in San Pedro Sula, authorities said.
      Flores Díaz was arrested in Barrio el Centro by agents of the Technical Agency of Criminal Investigation (ATIC), where he had a business selling cell phones. According to the authorities, he deceived the young girls by offering them money.
    • By Jack Ryan
      A former member of the Jehovah Witness congregation will appear in court next week after he was charged with sexually assaulting four boys.
      The charges stem from ongoing investigations linked to the Royal Commission into institutional child sexual offences.
      Police allege between 1993 to 2013, the 44-year-old man sexually assaulted four boys aged between 14 and 16 at the time of the offences.
      READ MORE: http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/former-wa-jehovah-witness-charged-with-alleged-historic-child-abuse-offences-20170512-gw37yd.html
    • By Jack Ryan
      26 April 2017
      27 April 2017
      28 April 2017
      1 May 2017
      6 May 2017
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