All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

No, it will take years to try to repair the damage to the JW Org.  And if only baptised JWs will get saved then the Org will have to be squeaky clean. Dream on.....

I wish this was not true.

It is very discouraging when the GB is chasing away more people than I could gather in a thousand lifetimes.

[AlanF]

10 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I wish this was not true.

It is very discouraging when the GB is chasing away more people than I could gather in a thousand lifetimes.

Isn't there something in the Bible about reaping what you sow?

[TrueTomHarley]

57 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

It is very discouraging when the GB is chasing away more people than I could gather in a thousand lifetimes

No. You are preoccupied with this, and @4Jah2me lives and breathes it. But anyone else takes into account that there is no sizable organization on earth where CSA is not an issue, and no one that is not being sued—and in most cases, it is the leaders who are the abusers, something very rare with JWs, whose leaders are just accused of not reporting.

Don’t misunderstand. I would rather that even that were not so, but it is considerably less serious than the leaders being the abusers. Most people can get their heads around that, out of 8 million people, not every single one will be blameless—especially since CSA is the scourge of the planet. Most people can also get their heads around clergy/penitent confidentiality, even if it is being legally reinterpreted, same as they have understood doctor/patient and lawyer/client privilege. I say the following only because I am addressing you, JTR, and I know your political leaning: Most ordinary Americans cannot quite get their heads around quid-pro-quo and if you explain it to them they are not quite sure why it is the huge deal Trump’s opponents make it out to be.

We’ll see how it turns out. It may be something to the Witness organization’s lasting shame. Or perhaps a sense of proportion will, in time, assert itself.

I do sometimes wish that there was a little more PR pushback from them. At present there is only a “we abhor child sexual abuse.” True enough, but in the face of court actions and vehement accusers, reporters go to where they can get a story. They can get one from accusers, but nothing specific from the defense, so they naturally gorge themselves on what the accusers have to say. That’s what reporters do.

There is a limit to how much you can malign people. The decency of Jehovah’s Witnesses is well-attested. They are not flower-selling robe dressers but they are neighbors and coworkers. True, they eat Bible sandwiches, but they are honest, industrious, law-abiding, and harmless. Usually when there are laudable people, it is understood to be because of their leaders, not despite them.

You hang out here too much, JTR, with people who are obsessed over this, in some cases people who are fervently hoping for an outcome detrimental to JWs. “Can’t see the forest for the trees” is the pit some fall into. Again, because of your political leanings—it is like media whipping people into a frenzy over Trump day after day, praying that every tiny development proves to be the torpedo that sinks him. From the moment of his election this has been the case—even from before his election. Close one Mueller investigation with not much to show for it, and immediately open another. 

At least half the country concludes that it is his enemies grasping at straws. 

[AlanF]

11 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No. You are preoccupied with this, and @4Jah2me lives and breathes it. But anyone else takes into account that there is no sizable organization on earth where CSA is not an issue, and no one that is not being sued—and in most cases, it is the leaders who are the abusers, something very rare with JWs, whose leaders are just accused of not reporting.

Don’t misunderstand. I would rather that even that were not so, but it is considerably less serious than the leaders being the abusers. Most people can get their heads around that, out of 8 million people, not every single one will be blameless—especially since CSA is the scourge of the planet. Most people can also get their heads around clergy/penitent confidentiality, even if it is being legally reinterpreted, same as they have understood doctor/patient and lawyer/client privilege. I say the following only because I am addressing you, JTR, and I know your political leaning: Most ordinary Americans cannot quite get their heads around quid-pro-quo and if you explain it to them they are not quite sure why it is the huge deal Trump’s opponents make it out to be.

We’ll see how it turns out. It may be something to the Witness organization’s lasting shame. Or perhaps a sense of proportion will, in time, assert itself.

I do sometimes wish that there was a little more PR pushback from them. At present there is only a “we abhor child sexual abuse.” True enough, but in the face of court actions and vehement accusers, reporters go to where they can get a story. They can get one from accusers, but nothing specific from the defense, so they naturally gorge themselves on what the accusers have to say. That’s what reporters do.

There is a limit to how much you can malign people. The decency of Jehovah’s Witnesses is well-attested. They are not flower-selling robe dressers but they are neighbors and coworkers. True, they eat Bible sandwiches, but they are honest, industrious, law-abiding, and harmless. Usually when there are valiant people, it is understood to be because of their leaders, not despite them.

You hang out here too much, JTR, with people who are obsessed over this, in some cases people who are fervently hoping for an outcome detrimental to JWs. “Can’t see the forest for the trees” is the pit some fall into. Again, because of your political leanings—it is like media whipping people into a frenzy over Trump day after day, praying that every tiny development proves to be the torpedo that sinks him. From the moment of his election this has been the case—even from before his election. Close one Mueller investigation with not much to show for it, and immediately open another. 

At least half the country concludes that it is his enemies grasping at straws. 

A very nice example of burying one's head in the sand with regard to religious leaders.

Remember that the GB itself excused homosexual pedophile Leo Greenlees.

And remember that close to half the country believes the earth is only 6,000 years old.

[TrueTomHarley]

18 minutes ago, AlanF said:

And remember that close to half the country believes the earth is only 6,000 years old.

The dopes. It is 7500 if it is a day.

[AlanF]

42 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The dopes. It is 7500 if it is a day.

Your buddy Arauna seems to think it's 6,000 years, being a young-earth creationist.

[TrueTomHarley]

Just now, AlanF said:

Your buddy Arauna seems to think it's 6,000 years, being a young-earth creationist.

Take it up with her, then.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

It seems to me that if the Earth is somewhere around 3.5 billion years old, divided by seven days, that would make each creative day about 500 million years.

... and Genesis is described from the perspective of someone standing on the surface of the Earth, watching stuff happen, so that's O.K.

We are in the 7th day of 500 million years, so I guess Armageddon will be  in the year C.E. 500,001,975.

"Stay Alive 'Till '75!"

[TrueTomHarley]

31 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

so I guess Armageddon will be  in the year C.E. 500,001,975.

That’s one heckuva corner.

31 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Stay Alive 'Till '75!"

Everyone is allowed one failed EOW date in a lifetime. It’s in the rules.

Besides, if you weren’t so old, there wouldn’t even be one failed expectation for you.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I used to date Wilma Slaghoople, who was an "End Times/Overlapping Generation" advocate, .... but she ended up marrying Fred Flintstone.

However, I expect that 100 out of 100 JWs would agree that Armageddon will in fact occur by the year C.E. 500,001,975.

In business that is what is called a "Large Prophet Margin".

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

 

                  Everyone is allowed one failed EOW date in a lifetime. It’s in the rules.

 

If memory serves the WTB&TS has five, 1975 just being the last one.

 

[Anna]

4 hours ago, AlanF said:

Remember that the GB itself excused homosexual pedophile Leo Greenlees.

It's because they thought he was cured.

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

But anyone else takes into account that there is no sizable organization on earth where CSA is not an issue, and no one that is not being sued—and in most cases, it is the leaders who are the abusers, something very rare with JWs, whose leaders are just accused of not reporting.

Do we have any statistic on this: how many leaders inside JW's are abusers, and how many leaders not reporting??

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I do sometimes wish that there was a little more PR pushback from them. At present there is only a “we abhor child sexual abuse.” True enough, but in the face of court actions and vehement accusers, reporters go to where they can get a story.

WT Organization PR decide to tell minimum words, and best words for doing so is to reverse the meaning of the charge. Victims and ex-JW put issue on how elders not reporting CSA cases to police and secular authorities and have internal Judging Committees. This JW elders act in a way that is not proactive for victims but contrary, it helps abusers to stay unknown not only to JW population in particular congregation, but to all other who need to know about issue. By such WT policy, danger for children inside and outside JW community come to be higher.

Bro SL gave public statement, on JW National TV,  “we abhor child sexual abuse”.   In this PR statement he didn't say how WT Society and elders do it (abhor) and handle with CSA cases, but general statement, about general truth. Because whole world, religious and secular doing the same about the same  - "abhor".