Governing Body Member Albert Schroeder Denies the Bible Applies to Jehovah's Witnesses

[JW Insider]

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

I'm not disputing the body of Christ

Good, because I know we've had that discussion before. Russell and his associates thought of this as a very powerful and important doctrine that gets partially repeated about a hundred times. Also, partly because they had not moved very far from the Trinity doctrine yet, they put a lot of emphasis on the idea that Jesus was a God (their capitalization, not mine) and that this doctrine put them on the divine plane as Gods. The Watchtower spoke of the 144,000 as "God manifest in the flesh." Based on the way Russell understood the Scriptures he has used, this teaching actually makes some sense. But I know of no other religions groups who were teaching that not only represented the Christ, but who would go so far as to claim that Jesus alone was not the Christ, but that the Christ included his Bride members, the 144,000.

The Christ would therefore include Russell himself, while on earth in the flesh, as long as he remained faithful.

When the world sees you it sees a member of The Christ, not in glory, but in the flesh. R455

Now we appear like men, and as men all die, even as others; but in the resurrection we will rise in our true character as Gods—partakers of the Divine nature (R473)

Our high calling is so great, so much above the comprehension of men, that they think we are guilty of blasphemy when we speak of being "new creatures"—"partakers of the divine nature." When we claim, on the scriptural warrant, that we are begotten to a divine nature and that Jehovah is thus our father, it is claiming that we are divine beings—hence all such are Gods. . . . Thus there is a family of Gods, Jehovah being our father, and all his sons on the divine plane, being brethren and joint-heirs: Jesus being the chief or first-born. [R474]

The Prophet like unto Moses, the great Law-giver, the great King, the great Mediator, will be the foretold "Seed of Abraham," in whom all the families of the earth shall be blessed. . . consists of our Lord Jesus, as the Head, the chief, and all of his faithful elect Church as members . . . [R2859]

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

You are giving an impression, Russell thought he had that "guarantee" when no one on earth does.

I never mentioned or implied any kind of guarantee, because I never had that impression myself. So sorry if anyone got that impression. Russell taught that he and others like him were "perfect" and "justified" as long as they were faithful, but that no one had a guarantee. They all had to endure to the end. As you point out, in some quotes you provided, this was part of his "faithful and wise servant" doctrine: that although it was a single individual, that God would replace that individual if he proved unfaithful.

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

This is what you are missing. You are projecting with a guarantee something Russell didn’t consider himself to be aside from being a faithful servant alongside the brotherhood.

I think you are still missing something here. I am not concerned at all with the any kind of "guarantee." That's something you added to this conversation. But it does seem you are trying to imply that Russell didn't even consider himself to be "that faithful and wise servant."

We know that would be a false impression. Just because he didn't publicly claim the title, doesn't mean he didn't make it clear that he was that individual. When he explained that it must be one human individual (at a time) and not a class, he added the idea that people might think him immodest for pointing this out, but he couldn't go against the obvious meaning of the Scriptures. If he didn't think it was himself, then why would he have though modesty should be a factor. He published letters that referred to himself as the "faithful and wise servant" often just called "that Servant." He was introduced at conventions with the title, and accepted the title without trying to correct anyone. And then the Watchtower printed the fact that during his life he had "privately admitted" to being that faithful and wise servant. The Watchtower admits that THOUSANDS of persons got this impression.

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Just like AlanF, you want to cherry pick. However, tell your pal, JW’s were constituted in 1931 therefore any material he submits before that, belongs to the “Freedom Bible Students” or the “Associated Bible Students”, not the original “International Bible Student Association”. Pastor Russell was part of.

This information comes straight out of the Watch Tower magazine and publications. Straight from Russell's pen. And straight out of the Biography of Charles Taze Russell published by the Watch Tower Society under Rutherford. It also comes straight out of the speech that Rutherford gave at Russell's funeral. It would be very strange to claim that anything Russell or the Watchtower said before 1931 belongs to "Freedom Bible Students" or "Associated Bible Students." All JWs who have read the "Proclaimers" book are not going to be fooled by such a claim.

[Anna]

@JW InsiderI am wondering whether you posed the same question, as was put to Schroeder, in a letter to the society, and if yes, what was their answer?

[JW Insider]

25 minutes ago, Anna said:

I am wondering whether you posed the same question, as was put to Schroeder, in a letter to the society, and if yes, what was their answer?

No. I have sent in a couple questions about parousia/synteleia and a question about other interpretations of Matthew 24, but never about Luke's version.

[AlanF]

On 11/22/2019 at 12:48 AM, Anna said:

@JW InsiderI am wondering whether you posed the same question, as was put to Schroeder, in a letter to the society, and if yes, what was their answer?

I guarantee that one who poses that question to the Society will not get an answer. Most likely they'll sic the local elders on him.