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Jack Ryan

"Love Never Shuns"

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James Thomas Rook Jr. -
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I don't think anyone is saying that disfellowshipping or shunning is totally wrong.

I think the argument / debate, is about when those things should be used. 

I also think it has been proved that JW Elders have disfellowshipped people for unjust reasons. And that people are shunned for unjust reasons. 

As you will know scriptures can be misused by anyone. So I think what some of us here are looking for is justice, mercy and love. I'm sure there must have been many times that Jesus could have turned some of his disciples away, but Jesus showed love and patience and mercy. 

I quite often think about Matthew 12 v 9 through 12.  ...' so it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath'.

 

 

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14 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I quite often think about Matthew 12 v 9 through 12.  ...' so it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath'.

I quite often think about that also ... and lament the burdens we have to bear because of legalism, verses common sense, love, mercy and justice.

Under the current environment and polices, if we DO "rescue a sheep on the Sabbath", we will be disfellowshipped and ostracized.

I know this, not on a theoretical level, but from recent personal, painful experience.

Fortunately, I was tough enough, and experienced enough to survive the experience.

...many, many .... are chased away forever.

 

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3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Under the current environment and polices, if we DO "rescue a sheep on the Sabbath", we will be disfellowshipped and ostracized.

I know this, not on a theoretical level, but from recent personal, painful experience

I think it's because they just don't trust a man who carries a gun

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On 11/26/2019 at 6:07 AM, 4Jah2me said:

I don't think anyone is saying that disfellowshipping or shunning is totally wrong.

But apparently, the opposers of the faith community says so, even as much to the point of trying to justify what they are saying by means of misusing a verse or two, in addition, also making remarks that insult God himself and or mock him and or his Christ.

On 11/26/2019 at 6:07 AM, 4Jah2me said:

I think the argument / debate, is about when those things should be used.

Yes. I gave an example of such a while back regarding smoking, whereas it is not in the Bible at all, however, such can, regarding on said example, can land a person within grounds of excommunication whereas they lose church ties entirely, moreover, the reaction from different church leaders concerning the situation prior to excommunication.

On 11/26/2019 at 6:07 AM, 4Jah2me said:

I also think it has been proved that JW Elders have disfellowshipped people for unjust reasons. And that people are shunned for unjust reasons. 

It has not, for every church of the faith community have different elders and or pastors with different experiences and levels of how to handle a situation, for instance, back to my old smoking example, one pastor may have been struggling with smoking in his teens, and decides to counsel the sinner who is experiencing the same thing, whereas another pastor has no such experience and sees such as a sin, but later on, makes an attempt to address the issue. Mankind is a melting pot of different people with different backgrounds, surely every church has different people of such, by means of race, sex, culture, what have you although in the same faith, so the experience is vastly different.

On 11/26/2019 at 6:07 AM, 4Jah2me said:

As you will know scriptures can be misused by anyone. So I think what some of us here are looking for is justice, mercy and love. I'm sure there must have been many times that Jesus could have turned some of his disciples away, but Jesus showed love and patience and mercy. 

It is not just misuse, sometimes people go over Scripture to attribute to emotion and or feeling, to justify, which leads to cherry picking and other twisted forms. This is true of the Christ, but his church entrusted his instruction, and you have seen such ones, even Paul, enact such in the church concerning some folks, especially those who think they know things concerning the teachings.

On 11/26/2019 at 6:07 AM, 4Jah2me said:

I quite often think about Matthew 12 v 9 through 12.  ...' so it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath'.

That passage is regarding Jesus helping out the man in the Sabbath, more so, that passage is of interest because there has always been debate if Jesus broke the Sabbath or not, even though we are under the New Covenant, people still go about such things. If anything, concerning excommunication and shunning, Christians are able to excommunicate, and it is deemed merciful to sinners and or those who sin. I would like to point out to you Matthew 18:15-18, as is with Paul's example in Romans 16.

That being said, regardless of what the person is excommunicate for, there is as well as a window open for those who want to seek entry into the church, to be reinstated, and such ones who willfully do this, will receive help in doing so, as for others, on the other side of the spectrum, there is willful sin, and the causing of trouble, which will evidently lead such a person into the realm of Apostasy.

@James Thomas Rook Jr. Didn't we talk about this before? I recall talking about the Second Amendment with you a while back.

That being said, regardless if a man has a gun or not, his intent is unknown, he may be a good guy or a bad guy, but that is just surface information, I rather say the mentality aspect of such for another day.

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Good Guys have no ill intent ... that is what makes them Good Guys.

Surface information is often helpful ... as when the Nazis show up in an "Indiana Jones" movie ... no need to explain who the bad guys are.

The "Second Amendment" is supposed to protect a natural right that ALL living things have ( ... if they can manage it and opt to do so ...)  as willy-nilly, I have no talons, claws, and fangs.

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4 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Good Guys have no ill intent ... that is what makes them Good Guys.

Surface information is often helpful ... as when the Nazis show up in an "Indiana Jones" movie ... no need to explain who the bad guys are.

You'd be surprise, should "some" guy goes give justification to go about an intent he or she sees as fit, but to others, as something drastically wrong, then you have a problem. We already have examples, whereas helping the people defend themselves have gone into the state of disarray and destruction in some parts of the world.

 

That being said, Indiana Jones was only in the movies. There is another film, I cannot recall the name, I think it was romancing the stone, or something like that. But again - it's all in show business, real life gets as realistic as it gets; too intense at times, if I may add.

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