2 Types of Worshippers on the Earth

[the Sower of Seed]

John 4:23 states:"Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him"

What 2 types of worshippers are there according to the Bible and what belief or actions define them?

[Arauna]

Go ahead, I presume it is a rhetorical question....

[the Sower of Seed]

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Go ahead, I presume it is a rhetorical question

No, I had hoped for expressions different ones use from day to day that I might plagiarize somewhere else. I appreciate that just as Jesus spoke of True worshipers who worship the Father in spirit and truth, there must be false worshipers who worship God with lies and falsehoods.

To those who believe that God and Christ are the same being, after thoughts of creation and Jesus being Jehovah's firstborn. I often reason about how Jesus is a Gift of God and who is the Greater the Giver or the Gift?

WHO is Greater  

The Gift or the Giver?

 

[Arauna]

Coming to mind:  our relationship with jehovah must be truthful.  He knows when we are not truthful, when we are not honest with Him or with ourselves.

Our relationship with our neighbours must always be truthful because we cannot live with a mask- be hypocritical in what we say or do. What we say, do and think must be in line with Jehovahs moral standards - that is integrity.

There is the kind of person who goes after fleshly desires and those who follow spiritual desires - with spiritual we mean -  in line with Jehovahs  bible principles and purpose for us..

There is a modern trend to called " to be spiritual".  Even atheists are spiritual. This is satanic deception because this is a fake persona to present oneself as "deep" when you may be reading horoscopes or other activities which are totally  against Jehovahs moral standards.

Satan is a "spirit" -  so spiritual could mean you are under his influence. To serve Jehovah in spirit and truth means to believe he is a rewarding spirit with no equal in wisdom, mercy, love, power, and justice and all his wonderful qualities - he exists - and obey his unparalleled principles.  To believe his Word and strictly obey it and to know that soon he will remove all fake "sprituality" with its pretentious  love for deception and lies and independence from Jehovah .....and remove satan and his demons who are the father/originators of it.

To be "spiritual or mindful" is a new way to say you are "not religious in the conventional way" of acknowledging the bible and its principles. You are now sophisticated  and following your own independent way. You are "religious" without acknowledging the living God jehovah.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

I think there are even different types of JWs. Some are quite happy to accept anything the GB / Writing dept' say/write, others are deeper thinking but say little, yet others are deep thinking and talk about their thoughts. Back in my days of doing field service I would go back to friend's house for coffee and biscuits afterwards and we would discuss spiritual matters and congregation matters. There were many things that we were not happy with, within the JW Org, but he chose to stay with it all and I chose to stop attending meetings. 

I think the GB / writing dept / JW Org can be described as not serving God properly. They admit to not being inspired, and it can be seen that their written words are not even guided by God or Christ. So JW Org is no better than the Catholic church in many ways. After all, some on here often compare JW Org with other religions, saying that they all suffer the same problems. 

[the Sower of Seed]

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I think there are even different types of JWs. Some are quite happy to accept anything the GB

There can only be one true way. The GB is feeding the new sheep in their delicate time, many will mature and progress, but never against the Slave that God is using as an administration to speak to His slaves in their imperfection.If you learned the truth apart from them, then you should praise God rather than complain.

The Catholic Church withheld the Bible and the precious truth Jesus leads people to.The clergy elevate themselves over the common parishioners as the Jewish priesthood did, this is the opposite that the GB has done. They have worked side by side in the ministry that is spreading around the Earth, they extend their hand to shake not to be kissed. The Catholic Church is the epitome of the "false worship" of Christianity, their doctrine has nothing in common with Truth. 

[Arauna]

5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

So JW Org is no better than the Catholic church in many ways. After all, some on here often compare JW Org with other religions, saying that they all suffer the same problems. 

We are all in this world and there are fleshly people/individuals who follow human desires and spiritual people who follow god's desires / purpose for us.  When people become fleshly after knowing God -  they follow their own human desires.......a most common phenomena  everywhere on earth and this thinking overcomes  JW individuals too!

This is where any comparison with the Catholic church ends.  Our teachings differ like night and day. I will not repeat all the babylonian dogmas in the churches.

 You critisize us for shunning those who commit gross sins in one breath and then go on  to say we are similar  to churches who openly allow LGBTQ?    Please disect your own responses....

1 hour ago, the Sower of Seed said:

to.The clergy elevate themselves over the common parishioners as the Jewish priesthood did, this is the opposite that the GB has done. The

True, clergy are worshipped. Rabbis and Imams have such a hold over their people. In Islam they fear each other as well as their leaders because killing of  a "hypocrite"  is accepted practice.

[the Sower of Seed]

16 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

After all, some on here often compare JW Org with other religions, saying that they all suffer the same problems.

A large difference between the Witnesses and others is the Spiritual relationship with the being known only as Lord, Jesus or God in other religions. They have experienced spirituality, spirituality is a completely spiritual relationship between the only being that answers prayers. The Witnesses do not pray to the Lord or Jesus, they pray to Jehovah, He is the Eternal Almighty Universal Sovereign and Creator, the Only Hearer of prayers. Ps.65:1 Praise awaits you, O God, in Zion; We will pay our vows to you.2 O Hearer of prayer, to you people of all sorts will come.

The Witnesses can experience many responses from Him because of the Truthful Spiritual view they have of Him and their daily Bible reading. Spirituality is best related to mental nudity, for Jehovah is approached without any material image or imagination of His being.If you imagine God as any material image, you are misled and are becoming a false worshiper, for no man has seen God at Any time

Exodus 20: You must not have any other gods besides me. 4 “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth.

There were no lies in the universe or images used to worship God until Satan approached Eve.When Adam sided with her, mankind severed themselves from the true knowledge of God and were cast away from Him.

What does the Creator want from mankind? From individuals? The same thing He experiences with angels, an eternal relationship based on His right to set the moral boundaries for mankind due to His Creatorship and His Wisdom.

That relationship will include inspiration or telepathy of thought, much like the human Jesus experienced, when they attain the latter part of the restoration. Acts 3:21 Heaven must hold this one within itself until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke through the mouth of his holy prophets of old.

Mankind should never use any image, nor a cross, nor a crucifix, nor an image of Mary or an apostle, nor even imagine such things when praying to Almighty.For He is a Spirit, unseen to human eyes. He cares not that you are light or dark skinned, whether you are male or female,that you are rich or poor. He cares how you view Him and how you respect Him in spirit and truth.

His concern is that you worship Him in Spirit and Truth and follow His moral directions. Just as the angels,He expects everyone who comes to know Him to share their knowledge with others. Mtt.28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,  20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

I'm sure you have seen the Witnesses expressing their gratitude and obedience to God like no other religion on Earth. 

John 4:23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.” 

There is a vast difference between the True & False worshipers! God has always shown One Direction as His Way. Noah by his acts, Moses by his acts, Jesus by his acts, the Witnesses by their acts.

Mtt.7:13“Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it;14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves.16 By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they?17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit.18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit.19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.

This is true and any one with a sensible thinking mind and a spiritual thinking heart will know what lies and misuse of scripture the GB / JW Org and Bible Students / Watchtower society et al, have used to misguide people over the many years. 

And anyone that investigates the JW Org to find out its 'rules' will see that the GB / JW Org live by and enforce rules made by men, not by God. 

The scripture you quoted 

John 4:23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.” 

If only the GB and its Org would live by that scripture, then it would all be so different to what it is now.  Even the GB's lawyers tell lies in court. Elders tell lies to cover up sins of elders and others.  And it seems that the GB give permission for all this. They call it 'spiritual warfare'. 

This bit is so funny too :-

Quote : "The Catholic Church withheld the Bible and the precious truth Jesus leads people to "

OK, JWs are allowed to have Bibles and are encouraged to read them, BUT, JWs are then told to believe only the things that the GB teach. So you can read you Bible but don't you dare to form your own conclusions about any scriptures. For if your idea conflicts with GB teachings you are in big trouble, well if you just happen to mention it to anyone else that is. 

And this :- 

Quote "The clergy elevate themselves over the common parishioners as the Jewish priesthood did, "

Well well, the GB elevate themselves above the Anointed as well as the earthly class. 

Please remember there was a time when ALL ANOINTED HERE ON EARTH WERE CLASSED AS THE 'FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE CLASS'. 

BUT now the GB say ONLY THEY, THOSE 8 MEN, are the F&DS. Now that is definitely exalting themselves..  And we know what the scripture says about those that exalt themselves don't we ? 

Another quote :-

Exodus 20: You must not have any other gods besides me. 4 “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth.

Watchtower says " Only baptised Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved".  Giving salvation to an Organisation is false worship, idol worship in fact. 

 

 

[Witness]

1 hour ago, the Sower of Seed said:

The Witnesses do not pray to the Lord or Jesus, they pray to Jehovah, He is the Eternal Almighty Universal Sovereign and Creator, the Only Hearer of prayers. 

Jesus said, “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest..  Matt  11:28

How can that be done if one is not allowed to pray to Christ? The early temple was a place of worship.  If Jesus is the “chief cornerstone” of heavenly Zion/Holy City, Temple, he also deserves our relative worship.

I did not see a (literal) temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. ²³ The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. ²⁴ The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.  Rev 21:22,23

 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits^[a] of God sent out into all the earth. ⁷ He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. ⁸ And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. ⁹ And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll
    and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
    and with your blood you purchased for God
    persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
¹⁰ You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
    and they will reign^[b] on the earth.”

¹¹ Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. ¹² In a loud voice they were saying:

“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
    to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
    and honor and glory and praise!”

¹³ Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
    be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”

¹⁴ The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.  Rev 5:6-14

They “fell down and worshiped” both the Father and Jesus Christ. 

Heb 1: 6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.” 

Men, who make up doctrine and change scripture by placing the word “obeisance” for any instances of worship given to Christ when on earth, have little regard for Jesus.  The same Greek word for “worship” is translated as “worship”, only when speaking of God, and ironically, Satan. 

Yes, the Wt uses the account of Luke 4:8, where Jesus said to Satan, “Worship the Lord your God and serve him only”.   Shouldn’t Satan have been doing that instead of demanding worship be given to himself? 

Open your eyes.  Your leaders may speak of Jesus, but they preach "another Jesus" than that of the early apostles.  2 Cor 11:34

 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.  Matt 23:13

[the Sower of Seed]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Jesus said, “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest..  Matt  11:28

We come to Christ through imitation of him, not by prayer to him. Christ did not wear any images, Christ was never a soldier in any war of human government, nor did he hail Caesar or any other man. Christ was not a womanizer nor a drunkard. Christ did not dress in expensive garb or exult himself as the one to be worshiped.Christ did not use his authority to extract favors from anyone or abuse them.Jesus was in Heaven as Michael when many Bible verses were expressed from Jehovah's presence such as Exodus 20:3 God stated: "You must not have any other gods besides me." ........Not Even Jesus!

Deuteronomy 4:24 For Jehovah your God is a consuming fire, a God who requires exclusive devotion.

5:9 You must not bow down to them nor be led to serve them, for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation of those who hate me, 

6:15 for Jehovah your God who is in your midst is a God who requires exclusive devotion. Otherwise, the anger of Jehovah your God will blaze against you and he will annihilate you from the face of the earth.

Jesus is THE GIFT OF GOD, GOD is GREATER THAN ANY OTHER BEING. He CHOSE a personal name Exodus 3:15 Then God said once more to Moses: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation.

Is this a True statement or is the Bible a book of lies? 

Christ prayed to His One Real Father as seen at John 17, he did not worship any other God or teach others to.

One Living Being is Worthy of our worship, One living being had the Power to create the material universe which Christ was as a helper. See Revelation 4:11 “You are worthy, Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they came into existence and were created.”

Are the facts true?

The entire Hebrew text speaks of One Almighty God who would send a Seed of His Angelic beings to crush Satan as foretold at Genesis 3:15. The same God punished people who did not worship Him Alone. The Israelites failed to obediently kill every inhabitant of the Land given them by God, this led them to worship Sacred Poles and images of Baal and other gods,even making their children pass through the fire to their death.They worshiped things like the sun,moon and stars. Jehovah punished them time and time again as generations passed and new were born who did not know God because their parents had left the way given by God.

Today generations have misled their children,many have taught them to worship false gods and saints and images and even Mary. The worship of Jesus as God is False Worship just like any other.  

The Greek verses show the fulfillment of many verses that Jesus could not manipulate to become the Seed. Jesus taught us who God is by his acts and speech. He never said "I am God" or I am the Creator, no he stated he is a lessor one, the son of man, the son of God. The name Jesus means "Jehovah is Salvation".

Jesus was the Seed sent to gather men of faith, they taught others and wrote pages describing the Christ they new. After they died, the pages were withheld by scrupulous men who exalted themselves over generations of men and women who had a zeal for god but not according to Accurate Information. They taught that they were the way to God and built a vast empire of falsehoods, you can still see the false worshipers in their various powers on Earth.They use many lessor ones to fulfill their fleshly hungers.

It is much easier for someone with no spiritual knowledge to grasp the truth, than those who have been poisoned by the spiritual falsehoods, profited from in the many books sold in the libraries and book stores of this world and preached by affable men and women in mega churches and television evangelizers, all do not know the truth but make themselves appear as experts!

If you pray to or worship Jesus, you are acting as a False worshiper according to the Bible, See John 4:23,24 WHO IS GOD LOOKING FOR?

The Entire Bible must Harmonize and must be held as the Highest authority on the matter!

 

 

[Arauna]

4 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

The Entire Bible must Harmonize and must be held as the Highest authority on the matter!

Most religions do not even understand that the purpose of Jehovah  is to restore the earth by means of the kingdom government under christ.  They do not study both the old and new testaments to see the continuity of the purpose and its administration thrroghout the millenia. Eph 1:9