The range of political beliefs among Jehovah's Witnesses

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

" Tell the brothers that you’ll try to refrain from running ahead. "

This is funny Tom.  Don't you know that your organisation has been running ahead from it's beginning ?

Russell ran ahead with his ideas of when Armageddon was coming and about the return to earth of the prophets.

JW Org ran ahead in the 1970's screaming that Armageddon was here. 

And now you, dear elder, criticise a man for having his own thoughts. 

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, César Chávez said:

No one knows the “day” or the “hour” but that doesn’t mean witnesses should not stay alert for signs that human events are asserted in.

Well, yeah, but if you see fulfillment of prophesy every time Trump blasts away at an opponent, the entire Book of Revelation will be fulfilled within the week.

If Kos must go into prophesy fulfillment, tell him to focus on how Trump vs Whoever has illuminated 2 Timothy 3:1-5. It used to be that if you read those verses and the householder didn’t agree that now is the time they are taking place, there wasn’t much you can do about it. Plainly, they are subjective, 

It is very hard to deny it now, though, with a straight face. Trump vs his enemies constitute Exhibit A of the world losing its mind. But it is only Exhibit A—one must not forget B-Z.

[Kosonen]

22 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Well, yeah, but if you see fulfillment of prophesy every time Trump blasts away at an opponent, the entire Book of Revelation will be fulfilled within the week.

With some exaggeration it could be said the whole book of Daniel is about Donald Trump.

1. The horn that has eyes and a mouth that speaks arrogantly (Daniel 7): Donald Trump is accused of speaking arrogantly and bluntly. 
2. A fierce looking king (Daniel 8:23-25): Donald Trump has a fierce look.
3. The king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt himself and magnify himself above every god; and against the God of gods he will speak astonishing things. And he will prove successful until the denunciation comes to a finish; because what is determined must take place. (Daniel 11:36): Donald Trump already fit some of these characteristics, he does as he pleases and brags openly and against all odds proves to be successful in staying in power and he has had success in domestic politics. The latest victory for him was of course the aquittal from impeachment.

It really looks like Donald Trump is going to fulfill a lot more prophecies.

[Melinda Mills]

King does not necessarily refer to one person.  Check Daniel and see that it can refer to a world power/powerful kingdom.

(Daniel 7:17, 18) 17 “‘These huge beasts, four in number, are four kings who will stand up from the earth. 18 But the holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom, and they will possess the kingdom forever, yes, forever and ever.’

Media-Persia, Greece, Rome, Britain-America (Anglo-American)
 

But I agree it can also refer to the King of a great world power.

*** it-1 p. 70 Alexander ***
“A male of the goats . . . proceeded to strike down the ram and to break its two horns.” “The ram that you saw possessing the two horns stands for the kings of Media and Persia. And the hairy he-goat stands for the king of Greece.” (Da 8:5, 7, 20, 21)
After defeating the Medo-Persian forces twice in Asia Minor, Alexander’s army pushed first to the S and then to the E, completely conquering the Medo-Persian Empire
 

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

The thought just occurred to me that those who have a full blown case of TDS, AND a full blown case of WDS, have something in common.

They have absolutely NO sense of humor !

 

 

....and of course there is ....

 

 

Trump's House of Wings .wmv

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Kosonen said:

The latest victory for him was of course the aquittal from impeachment.

Well, what in the world do you expect? “Yeah, I know that I was impeached, but I am really guilty—can’t believe I fooled them on that—they really should have convicted me.” You think he’s going to say that, or think that?

Do you know what acquittal means? It means not guilty. So when the process finds him not guilty, as he never thought he was, in the face of critics vehemently insisting that he was guilty as sin, even a traitor to the country—and given his personality not to shrink from a fight, would you not expect him to do a victory lap or three?

Do you even know what he was impeached for? Most Americans had only a hazy idea and if you explained it to them in more detail, many couldn’t see how it was an especial big deal—it is not as though the charge he made of the former VP’s son was untrue, after all.

1 hour ago, Kosonen said:

A fierce looking king (Daniel 8:23-25): Donald Trump has a fierce look.

You’re kidding me! And everyone else in town has the countenance of an angel?

1 hour ago, Kosonen said:

And he will prove successful until the denunciation comes to a finish; 

Everyone is successful until their denunciation comes to a finish. C’mon, Kos! Ask JTR to tell you about how Cool Hand Luke kept coming at George Kennedy even though he had nothing.

Look, some find the guy’s candor refreshing. You lap up the commentator painting a picture of a Congress shocked—shocked!—that he would carry on so at a prayer breakfast, as though business as normal for them is devotion to prayer?! 

1 hour ago, Kosonen said:

With some exaggeration it could be said the whole book of Daniel is about Donald Trump.

Enough of the stuff to float the Spanish Armada on, methinks.

At most, he is an example of the clay that does not mix with the iron. You might think of him as a bull in a china shop, but would you really want to liken government status quo as a ‘china shop?’

Call him a junkyard dog in a junkyard and you are on safer ground. But the only dog in Revelation is the one that goes down with about a half-dozen other types of scoundrels. And don’t start pumping a prophesy out of that—it was just a throwaway line!

4Jah’s true annointed, to manifest itself out of nowhere within ten years, may have an opening for head prophet, but as for me and my household, I can find a better one at any Seven-Eleven store.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

I thought JWs were 'no part of this world'. Um so even that is a lie. 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

 

This is an observation leading to several questions I do not know the answer to:

I would ask this questions in my congregation, but even asking the questions would put me on the "suspicious  persons " list, and I would be subject to an open ended "fishing expedition" interrogation that I am weary of.

In Norway there are approximately 112,000 Jehovah's Witnesses, and presumably none of them vote in political elections, under penalty of disfellowshipping by the Congregation Elders.

In Norway, the Government subsidizes all registered and approved churches, as is done in many European countries, with a "per head" payment based on membership numbers.. I think the WTB&TS gets, in NK (Norwegian Kroner) about $83 equivalent for each JW reported to the government. ( I do not really know the number, and am reporting a partial memory).. If so, that is about 9.2 million dollars equivalent.

Discussions are now SERIOUSLY going on among Norwegian politicians to cancel that subsidy for Jehovah's Witnesses, BECAUSE they are in severe violation of basic human rights , in that the WTB&TS imposes on their JW Norwegian citizens, namely, severe punishment and sanctions for exercising their Norwegian right to vote.

If this "push" reaches fruition, Norwegian citizens will still have to pay taxes as before for this, but the Society will not get their 9.2 million dollars a year, or whatever the real number is, AND JWs will be branded as "extremists", and other nasty things, with solid proof that they are in fact actually guilty, guilty, guilty, of basic human rights violations.

I cannot imagine the Society wanting to give up the estimated 9.2 million dollars each year, or be branded as enemies of civilization .... so my questions are as follows:

Will the Society relax the standards for voting in Norway, and more to the point SHOULD they relax the voting standards now in force for Norwegian JWs, and make it a matter of personal conscience, (as it is with it's OK to accept whole blood, if it is fractionated, and is administered in 13 separate IV tubes) ?

SHOULD voting in elections and referendums, etc, be a matter of personal conscience, and not punishable by expulsion, and shunning ?

 

[Kosonen]

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You’re kidding me! And everyone else in town has the countenance of an angel?

Daniel 8:23-25 says: 

And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, a fierce-looking king who understands ambiguous sayings will stand up. 24  His power will become great, but not through his own power. He will bring ruin in an extraordinary way, and he will be successful and act effectively. He will bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of the holy ones. 25  And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand.

Those highlighted characteristics above are things that the media tell about Trump already. 

And how do people around the world perceive Donald Trump's facial image? Soft? Gentle? Or fierce? Needless to say.

[TrueTomHarley]

5 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Those highlighted characteristics above are things that the media tell about Trump already. And how do people around the world perceive Donald Trump's facial image? Soft? Gentle? Or fierce? 

This is because whenever he appears on media, he is responding to one of their accusations. What! Would you hold up the media as revealer of Truth? You do not see that they plainly have an agenda of their own? 

This is downright childish, Kos. Watch him at one of his rallies and he will not appear “fierce” at all. He will be appear almost as jolly as Santa Claus.

[Kosonen]

41 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

 Watch him at one of his rallies and he will not appear “fierce” at all. He will be appear almost as jolly as Santa Claus

I have seen him on his rallies. There he brags about himself, as the prophecies tell that he would speak arrogantly and boastfully and exalt himself.

Some people love it. And he gets votes.

New International Version, Daniel 7:8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.

[TrueTomHarley]

28 minutes ago, Kosonen said:

“While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it.

Well, I did see him gore Biden, Warren, and Sanders recently. Maybe that counts to fulfill a prophesy that has stood a mystery for thousands of years.

There were several others he slammed but you cannot count them. They’ll screw up the numbering.