Gal. 4:14

[indagator]

Greetings to all from one who has not visited here in a while. I hope this winds up in the right heading(!), and I hope the bros. and sisters who visit here more regularly than I do are well and have Jah’s blessings.

Something has come up that surprised me, and I know that certain people here might have input.

First, a background: for some years now there has been some contentious discussion among certain academics, namely, between Evangelical types and others outside of their perspective on the status of Jesus in his pre-existence. Of course, the Evangelicals with their fourth-century high Christology don’t have it right. For those who don’t know, Bart Ehrman, who certainly has no respect for Jehovah, grew up in the Evangelical fold but left it and embraced agnosticism. He’s basically viewed as an apostate by the Evangelical world, though not in the same way as a worshiper of Jehovah would view an apostate. Since that time, Ehrman has used his knowledge and academic position to attack Evangelicalism frequently. He has a blog where he does this, as well as in his published books.

Another academic who regularly tries to rebut Ehrman is Larry Hurtado, a full-fledged Evangelical who runs his own blog. Hurtado recently died after a long struggle with leukemia, so his blog, while still up, has and will have no more new posts.

Here is an example of the dialogue regarding Jesus’ pre-existence as an angel:

https://ehrmanblog.org/christ-as-an-angel-in-paul-2/

One of the points is the correct understanding of Gal. 4:14b. The NWT reads, “but you received me like an angel of God, like Christ Jesus.” While the organization has often cited passages like 1 Thess. 4:16 (“with an archangel’s voice”), I cannot recall the Society ever using the Galatians passage on this matter of Jesus having been the foremost angel. I checked the old Make Sure and Reasoning books, and the old 1930-1985 index as well. Surely this passage is legitimate to use to help show that Jesus was Michael in his heavenly existence prior to becoming a human.

Does anyone know whether the bros. at Warwick are even aware of all this?

Best to all.

 

[JW Insider]

16 hours ago, indagator said:

While the organization has often cited passages like 1 Thess. 4:16 (“with an archangel’s voice”), I cannot recall the Society ever using the Galatians passage on this matter of Jesus having been the foremost angel.

I never thought of it that way. I always took it to mean, 'you treated me like an angel or even like Jesus Christ.' I don't doubt the possibility of reading it as if an equivalence between angel and Christ however. (Even if not an equivalence between Paul and angel and Christ, of course.)

It's a little like Zech 12:8 in the LXX.

And, btw, great to see you here again.

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, indagator said:

Does anyone know whether the bros. at Warwick are even aware of all this?

Not that verse specifically, but I certainly am aware of Bart. He is the GreatCourses lecturer who I’ve been listening to lately. He has replaced some unsavories here who I  promised to myself not to engage anymore. God never takes away without giving something better

No sooner does Bart say something blockheaded and I think of starting up an article on it than he says something even dumber. He is the newer, better, improved version of the “apostate”—it is no more than “apostates lite” up till now.

For the most part I have not named him, but have just called him The Professor. It is not about him but the role he plays. Like the Watchtower seldom naming names, as soon as you name a villain you created the impression that removing that villain solves matters. Instead, another villain immediately steps into his shoes and the show goes on.

Here is his quip when speaking of Pax Romana: “I always tell my students [at Chapel Hill] that if there is a perfectly good English term for a concept, you are better off using the Latin term so everyone will know you’ve been to the university.“ It is just a quip but in that quip lies all the pretensions or our ridiculous times. “How can you believe, when you are accepting glory from one another and you are not seeking the glory that is from the only God?” says Jesus. (Jn 5:44)