WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

5 hours ago, César Chávez said:

That's why, I understand scripture better than you!

Apparently you do not understand Scripture enough to FIND ONE that states whether or not Jehovah specifically views warfare as murder, or not.

remember the original question I posed?

"WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?"

Try THIS principle on for size:

Jehovah engages in warfare.

If I am right, Jehovah is NOT a murderer.

If you are right, Jehovah IS a murderer.

 

[Arauna]

30 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Jehovah specifically views warfare as murder, or not.

As I said earlier - it does not matter if warfare is murder or not because BOTH warfare and murder or any killing is no longer allowed if you want to be a true Christian. 

Maybe for a false Christian.  You can join another Christian church if you feel killing or war is acceptable. They love to go and give their children in sacrifice to the God of war - and all in the name of nationalism. Their leaders drum the war Tom-toms and then they go fight their leader's wars. Iraq is a  good example: young men died to win territory which a new president gives away..... when things change.... they forget the precious blood that was given for their warmongering and mistakes.

Isaiah clearly states that in last days those serving jehovah "will learn war no more".   So your irrelevant, sneaky question is not applicable...... because NONE of it is allowed if you are a true Christian.  

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Arauna:

You misapply what I am saying in every way.

I am not saying that warfare is acceptable for Christians .... I am saying that to the best of my knowledge ... warfare is NOT considered by God to be murder.

That is my best guess looking at how Jehovah has acted, what He has done, and what He has said about BOTH types of homicide.

There are irrefutable facts, that can be directly observed.

What I am trying to codify, and correctly understand ...is NOT what ... that can be clearly seen ... what I want to know is ...

WHY?

I want to Grok.

[Srecko Sostar]

13 hours ago, César Chávez said:

For one, God has “never” murdered any of his creation.

Exodus 15

"The LORD is my strength and song, And He has become my salvation; This is my God, and I will praise Him; My father's God, and I will extol Him. ³ "The LORD is a warrior; The LORD is His name. ⁴ "Pharaoh's chariots and his army He has cast into the sea; And the choicest of his officers are drowned in the Red Sea.

Psalm 24

Who is the King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, The LORD mighty in battle.

Exodus 14

"The LORD will fight for you while you keep silent."

Psalm 45

Gird Your sword on Your thigh, O Mighty One, In Your splendor and Your majesty!

......... and so on :))

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

CC:

EVERYTHING you said in the above post is true .... but is completely beside the point ... and completely misses the POINT of the discussion.

It is similar to me asking why automobiles are manufactured in the United States ... and you give a dissertation of the nitrogen cycles of various soil conditions, optimized for corn production... all interesting discussions, and somewhat related as to whether of not corn will grow well, but all the verbiage, charts and graphs, and stuff, related to corn. have NOTHING to do with the question of car manufacture !

NOTHING you have said above ... NOTHING WHATSOEVER, has anything at all to do with answering the ONLY question I brought up...

"WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?"

My best guesses looking at how Jehovah has acted, what He has done, and what He has said about BOTH types of homicide, show that he DOES NOT view them the same way

There are irrefutable facts, that can be directly observed, from the Biblical record.

What I am trying to codify, and correctly understand ...is NOT what ... that can be clearly seen ... what I want to know is ...

WHY?

I want to Grok.  THAT is my agenda.

Your agenda appears to be to defend something that was NOT disparaged, completely off topic.

 

 

[Witness]

On 2/11/2020 at 4:02 PM, Arauna said:

This makes us the only nation on earth which is different.  Isaiah 2:2-4 clearly states that the worshippers of 'Jehovah' would flock together to his spiritual temple from all over the earth and  " learn war no more".   We are true christians because other Christian's still go to war and kill (or approve of it under the excuse of nationalism.) 

Of course you are speaking about Jehovah's Witnesses  as this "only nation".  You might want to check this out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_pacifism

JWs cannot “flock” to the spiritual temple of God if they have no clue what that temple is, or who it is.  John 2:19-21; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:10,16,17; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 3:12; 21:2,9,10,22; 2 Cor 11:2; Rev 14:1,4,5

[Witness]

Just some comparisons for anyone interested:

1 Sam 17:8-10

Goliath stood and shouted to the ranks of Israel, “Why do you come out and line up for battle? Am I not a Philistine, and are you not the servants of Saul? Choose a man and have him come down to me. ⁹ If he is able to fight and kill me, we will become your subjects; but if I overcome him and kill him, you will become our subjects and serve us.” ¹⁰ Then the Philistine said, “This day I defy the armies of Israel! Give me a man and let us fight each other.”

Nakah – “kill”

נָכָה nâkâh, naw-kaw'; a primitive root; to strike (lightly or severely, literally or figuratively):—beat, cast forth, clap, give (wounds), × go forward, × indeed, kill, make (slaughter), murderer, punish, slaughter, slay(-er, -ing), smite(-r, -ing), strike, be stricken, (give) stripes, × surely, wound.

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“They kill the widow and the resident alien and murder the fatherless.” Ps 94:6

Harag – “kill”

ג hârag, haw-rag'; a primitive root; to smite with deadly intent:—destroy, out of hand, kill, murder(-er), put to (death), make (slaughter), slay(-er), × surely.

Ratsach – “murder”

רָצַח râtsach, raw-tsakh'; a primitive root; properly, to dash in pieces, i.e. kill (a human being), especially to murder:—put to death, kill, (man-) slay(-er), murder(-er).

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 Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, “Draw your sword and kill me, so that they can’t say, ‘A woman killed him.’” So his servant ran him through, and he died.  Judges 9:54

Muwth – “kill”

מוּת mûwth, mooth; a primitive root; to die (literally or figuratively); causatively, to kill:—× at all, × crying, (be) dead (body, man, one), (put to, worthy of) death, destroy(-er), (cause to, be like to, must) die, kill, necro(-mancer), × must needs, slay, × surely, × very suddenly, × in (no) wise.

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“You desire and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and wage war. You do not have because you do not ask.”  James 4:2

Phoneuō - “murder”

φονεύω phoneúō, fon-yoo'-o; from G5406; to be a murderer (of):—kill, do murder, slay.

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“Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,”  Matt 23:34

Apokteinō – “kill”

 †ἀποκτείνω apokteínō, ap-ok-ti'-no; from G575 and κτείνω kteínō (to slay); to kill outright; figuratively, to destroy:—put to death, kill, slay.

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

12 hours ago, Witness said:

“You desire and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and wage war. You do not have because you do not ask.”  James 4:2

Phoneuō - “murder”

φονεύω phoneúō, fon-yoo'-o; from G5406; to be a murderer (of):—kill, do murder, slay.

It seems that here James is, in his two SEPARATE sentences .... referring to murder in one case.... and fighting and waging war as being something different.

That makes sense to me, as all the examples in the Bible show the same thing ... as well as that being the understanding of the entire civilized world's sovereign governments.

Further, Jesus was executed after a trial by a sovereign government, and it is NEVER referred to him as having been " murdered ".. . anywhere ... by anybody .... ever.

[Witness]

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Further, Jesus was executed after a trial by a sovereign government, and it is NEVER referred to him as having been murdered .. . anywhere... by anybody.... ever.

 “Then the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders of the people assembled at the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas, <sup>4</sup> and plotted to take Jesus by trickery and kill Him.”  Matt 26:3,4

Apokteinō – “kill”

ἀποκτείνω apokteínō, ap-ok-ti'-no; from G575 and κτείνω kteínō (to slay); to kill outright; figuratively, to destroy:—put to death, kill, slay.

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“You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.”  John 8:44

Anthrōpoktonos – “murderer”

ἀνθρωποκτόνος anthrōpoktónos, anth-ro-pok-ton'-os; from G444 and κτείνω kteínō(to kill); a manslayer:—murderer. Compare G5406.

G5406  φονεύς phoneús, fon-yooce'; from G5408; a murderer (always of criminal (or at least intentional) homicide; which G443 does not necessarily imply; while G4607 is a special term for a public bandit):—murderer.

Sounds like premeditated murder.

“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— ²³ Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you  have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death”  Act 2:22,23 

Anaireō – “put to death”

- ἀναιρέω anairéō, an-ahee-reh'-o; from G303 and (the active of) G138; to take up, i.e. adopt; by implication, to take away (violently), i.e. abolish, murder:—put to death, kill, slay, take away, take up.

 

But we remember:

 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. ¹⁸ No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”  John 10:17,18

 

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Jesus willingly walked into a known death trap ... but it was constructed by the Jews, and sprung by the Romans after an unfair trial .... but it was a legal  trial ... and it was done by the Roman government having military occupation of Israel.

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Jesus willingly walked into a known death trap ... but it was constructed by the Jews, and sprung by the Romans after an unfair trial .... but it was a legal  trial ... and it was done by the Roman government having military occupation of Israel.

 

 

This remained me on common fact. World is full of "legalism" and courts making "legal" trials and decisions. Even JWorg has "legal system". But many times they all making wrongs and injustices.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Justice we get ONLY from God.

All else is contaminated by DNA.