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What should we believe, what should we question, Bible Canon


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What should we believe and what should we question ? What should we just accept and what should we research ? 

How deep should we dig in order to find truth ? 

How do we really know what TRUTH is ?

Yes I'm asking serious questions and trying to dig very deeply

THE BIBLE CANON.

Now here is a lovely place to start digging. And here is a lovely place to ask ourselves, Should we just accept the Bible Canon as it is ?

“Canon” is a Greek word meaning “rule” or “measuring stick.” So the Bible canon is the 'accepted' 66 writings that the Bible holds.

Should we accept this canon or question it ? Do you know that many 'Bible scholars' did not and do not agree on the Bible canon ?

140 C. E. 
Marcion rejected the Old Testament, along with any writings that might reinforce views other than his own. He developed a list of books he considered acceptable: portions of the Gospel of Luke, ten of Paul’s letters, plus a letter purportedly from Paul to the Alexandrians. This list is known as the Marcion Canon. 
 
After Marcion and Montanus, lists of New Testament books begin to appear. One of the first was The Muratorian Fragment. It was discovered among the Vatican’s sacred documents by historian Ludovico Antonio Muratori in 1740 and dates to about A.D. 190. The fragment is damaged. The portion we possess begins with “the third book of the Gospel is that according to Luke.” We assume the first and second Gospels to be Matthew and Mark. The fragment lists John, Acts, all of Paul’s letters, James, 1-2 John, Jude and the Revelation of John. It also includes the Revelation of Peter, the Wisdom of Solomon and (“to be used in private, but not public worship”) the Shepherd of Hermas.
 
In 367, Athanasius, the bishop of Alexandria, wrote an Easter letter that contained all twenty-seven books of our present New Testament. In 393 the Synod of Hippo affirmed our current New Testament, and in 397 the Council of Carthage published the same list.
 
But :-
 
In the first and second centuries after Christ, many, many writings and epistles were circulating among the Christians. Some of the churches were using books and letters in their services that were definitely spurious. Gradually the need to have a definite list of the inspired Scriptures became apparent. Heretical movements were rising, each one choosing its own selected Scriptures, including such documents as the Gospel of Thomas, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Apocalypse of Peter, and the Epistle of Barnabas.
 
The Council of Carthage established the orthodox New Testament canon in 397 AD; it was upheld at the 
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 in 1545. By the way, Protestants and Catholics are in agreement with their use of the same New Testament.
However, were any of those men true servants of God through Christ ?  Were they guided by God / Holy Spirit ?
The scriptures talk about men entering into the 'congregation' / organisation that would mislead many and not act is a truthful way.  
 
A small point but of interest, is in Paul's Letter to the Colossians Ch 4 v 16 
"And when this letter has been read among you, arrange for it also to be read in the congregation of the La·o·di·ceʹans and for you also to read the one from La·o·di·ceʹa. "
 
Here we read that Paul mentions his letter to the congregation of Laodicea, and a little bit of research will find this letter. 
To the Laodiceans
 
1 Paul, an apostle not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ, to the brethren who are of Laodicea. 2 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
20 And cause [this letter] to be read to the Colossians and that of the Colossians to you.
 
There is not much in the letter to Laodicea but, if the translation I've found is correct then it is one of Paul's letters. And it was important enough to Paul to mention in both letters Colossians and Laodiceans to read both to both congregations.
 
So, why is it not in the Bible canon ? 
 
At this point i must thank @JW Insider for his work and for his giving me much information concerning other writings of 'Scripture' and history of Bible times. Thank you. 
 
I was not aware, A, that so many other 'writings of scripture' had been written, B, that so many still exist and are available to read online. 
 
But this poses a question. If we believe that God, through Holy Spirit, has kept 'His written word' 'alive' and available for all to read, then who has kept all those other 'writings of scripture' available for all to read ? and why ?
 
How much should we investigate and how much should we just accept ? 
 
The Bible Canon is just a starting point. We could follow up with, Do we accept the translation we have or should we try to compare it to the original Hebrew and Greek scriptures ? 
How close to the original Hebrew and Greek can we get ?
What does God and Christ expect of us ? Do they expect us to dig deeper than just reading the translation of the Bible that we have ? 
 
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The only item in Paul's list of fruits of the spirit that comes anywhere near "doctrine" is faith. True religion is about love, joy, peace, and other good qualities that make us the sort of persons we ought to be at all times. Our motivation should be the spirit of Christ, which is basically love of God and love of neighbor, motivated by our faith. And therefore these good fruits come out of a clean heart, not motivated by the fleshly qualities of the world (or spirit of this world). This i

Those of Rev 17:14  wouldn’t be there if they were not obedient to BOTH the Father and the Son. Have you read this lately? 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have know my Father also. From now on you know him and have seen him.” 8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Am I with you so long a time and you have not known me,

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12 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Do they expect us to dig deeper than just reading the translation of the Bible that we have?

Hi 4Jah2me,

According to these scriptures it is very good to examine scriptures to make sure. I check very often interlinear translations to see if the New world translation translates correctly.

1Thessalonians 5:21 Make sure of all things;

Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·niʹca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. 

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You made excellent topic !

13 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:
In 367, Athanasius, the bishop of Alexandria, wrote an Easter letter that contained all twenty-seven books of our present New Testament. In 393 the Synod of Hippo affirmed our current New Testament, and in 397 the Council of Carthage published the same list.
 
But :-
 
In the first and second centuries after Christ, many, many writings and epistles were circulating among the Christians. Some of the churches were using books and letters in their services that were definitely spurious. Gradually the need to have a definite list of the inspired Scriptures became apparent.

"Gradually the need to have a definite list of the inspired Scriptures became apparent."

How much reasonable is to expect and believe that "uninspired" people made selection of "inspired" scriptures?

How much is reasonable is to expect and believe that all these "gifts from spirit" described in Bible books, and in 1st century especially, are unique ONLY for past period. When Bible speaking about time when "miracle gifts" will stop and disappear why we conclude how that was stop in the long past (1st century), and will be again in a far future? (Or not so far, but before 1914 generation end, die :)) )

And of course, what of writings are truly inspired by God, and what was just history (true or little made up)?

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4 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Hi 4Jah2me,

According to these scriptures it is very good to examine scriptures to make sure. I check very often interlinear translations to see if the New world translation translates correctly.

1Thessalonians 5:21 Make sure of all things;

Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·niʹca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. 

@Kosonen  Thank you for your reply. However the plot deepens :-

The Book of Acts or Acts of the Apostles.

The NWT has it that the writing of  Acts was 'completed' c.61 

However looking online I find this :-

Acts was apparently written in Rome, perhaps between ad 70 and 90, though some think a slightly earlier date is also possible.

And this :-

Acts and the Gospel of Luke make up a two-part work, Luke–Acts, by the same anonymous author, usually dated to around 80–90 AD.

So we already have questions as to When was the Acts of the Apostles written ? 

This also leads to another question, one which i have raised before. 

You have quoted Acts 17 v 11.

" Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·niʹca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. "

Now here's the rub. Exactly what 'scriptures' were they examining ? 

Surely they only had the Hebrew writings ? A. Because not all the Greek writings had been written. B. Because the Greek writings that had been written would not yet have been gathered into a 'collection'.  

One also wonders if the Apostles would have carried around a 'bundle of scrolls' to read from ? Or would only have had reference in synagogues where the copies of scrolls (Hebrew Scriptures) would have been kept. Hence :-

Acts 17 v 10 

 Immediately by night the brothers sent both Paul and Silas to Be·roeʹa. On arriving, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.

( I've always presumed that the Apostles spoke from memory whilst being inspired of God's Holy spirit. ) 

This brings another question. Regarding Acts 17 v 11 " carefully examining the Scriptures daily "   Would the Bereans / Boreans / Beroeans  have had access to the Hebrew scrolls daily ?  Were the Synagogues left open for anyone to go into to examine the scrolls ?

If the scrolls were guarded by the Jews, would Christians have had access ? 

 

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Hello @Srecko Sostar Thank you, and i can see that you also are looking deeper into spiritual things. 

Quote "How much is reasonable is to expect and believe that all these "gifts from spirit" described in Bible books, and in 1st century especially, are unique ONLY for past period. 

I agree with you, and I feel that inspiration from God's holy spirit is needed now. 

Quote "And of course, what of writings are truly inspired by God, and what was just history (true or little made up)? "

Have you seen the list of writings that @JW Insider kindly supplied on my other recent topic ?

It will take me many months to even just browse all of them.  Where i have started to look it has caused questions for me. 

I have a fear that many people join CCJW / JW Org, so that they do not have to think for themselves. 

But on leaving that 'situation' one has a choice. One can go back into the world, or, one can seek spiritual things. 

I do firmly believe that God, through Christ, will give spiritual inspiration to the true Anointed sometime in the near future. It would seem unfair ( to me ) that God and Christ would expect humans to unravel truth from lies, and to be able to completely work out Bible prophecies without Holy Spirit for guidance. 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Quote "How much is reasonable is to expect and believe that all these "gifts from spirit" described in Bible books, and in 1st century especially, are unique ONLY for past period. 

The fundamental of first century Christianity is spiritual growth, faith, love and obedience. It doesn't need rocket science to implement those factors in daily life. If you question peoples motives, that's one thing, if you question scripture as it stands with the 66 books, then you question God and blaming him for not making humanity perfect before your eyes and standards. However, look at thy self first!

45 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Have you seen the list of writings that @JW Insider kindly supplied on my other recent topic ?

It will take me many months to even just browse all of them.  Where i have started to look it has caused questions for me. 

Since when has a person not in good standing with their religion have any good advice or made a worthwhile contribution to that org? This world be a good application for the blind leading the blind.

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On 2/27/2020 at 2:50 PM, 4Jah2me said:

What should we believe and what should we question ?

A very good question. Love believes all things. Of course this doesn't mean we shouldn't also question all things. Believe everything as possibly right, and question everything as possibly wrong. But questioning everything would require every one of us to become scholars. But relying on most scholars can be dangerous too. Most modern scholars these days are not faithful to the Bible as God's word. One excuse is to question the canon itself, and what scholars do accept as canonical for the early Christians is still not considered "inspired."

But some common sense that all of us should have will lead us in the right direction. A major concern of yours has been that only a modern-day anointing by holy spirit will explain everything to us, and you always tend to push this off into the future, although you recognize that it is needed now. The person you know as BTK and whom many old-timers here recognize as A.S. has already hit upon one of the keys to recognizing where this "holy spirit" can be found.

7 hours ago, Leander H. McNelly said:

The fundamental of first century Christianity is spiritual growth, faith, love and obedience. It doesn't need rocket science to implement those factors in daily life.

The "Word of God" is not an expression in the Bible that refers to a specific set of 66 books. When we say the Word of God, we often mean "the Bible" but that's not the use of the expression in the Bible itself. Also, the expression "the spirit" does not always refer to God's active force acting like a separate entity to inspire perfect knowledge. In fact, if one reads Romans and Galatians for example, you can see that Christians have a choice of accepting the spirit or not, and that even those of us who do not consider ourselves "anointed" must strive for the same measure of this holy spirit as those who consider themselves "anointed." (It's quite probable that Allen Smith/Billy the Kid actually does consider himself to be anointed based on several things he has said concerning this topic, but that doesn't change the primary point.)

In Galatians, Paul speaks with the same terms he uses in Romans about the "anointing" of holy spirit. He speaks in both Romans and Galatians about the purpose and effect of this anointing. But in Galatians it's clear that the holy spirit must have the same effect in the lives of all Christians. To this extent, all of us must be implanted with the seed of holy spirit. And what grows from that seed of holy spirit counteracts the works of "the flesh." The holy spirit makes certain fruits grow in all of us. Note:

(Galatians 3:29-5:26) . . .Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s [seed] offspring, heirs with reference to a promise. .. . . 3 Likewise, we too, when we were children, were enslaved by the elementary things of the world. 4 But when the full limit of the time arrived, God sent his Son, who was born of a woman and who was under law, 5 that he might release by purchase those under law, so that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 Now because you are sons, God has sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, . . . 22 For example, it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the servant girl and one by the free woman; 23 but the one by the servant girl was actually born through natural descent and the other by the free woman through a promise. 24 These things may be taken as a symbolic drama; for these women mean two covenants, the one from Mount Siʹnai, which bears children for slavery and which is Haʹgar. 25 Now Haʹgar means Siʹnai, a mountain in Arabia, and she corresponds with the Jerusalem today, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. . . . 31 So, brothers, we are children, not of a servant girl, but of the free woman. [Chap 5] For such freedom Christ set us free. Therefore, stand firm, and do not let yourselves be confined again in a yoke of slavery. . . . 5 For our part, we are by spirit eagerly waiting for the hoped-for righteousness resulting from faith. . . . 13 You were called to freedom, brothers; only do not use this freedom as an opportunity to pursue fleshly desires, but through love slave for one another. 14 For the entire Law has been fulfilled in one commandment, namely: “You must love your neighbor as yourself.” . . . 16 But I say, Keep walking by spirit and you will carry out no fleshly desire at all. 17 For the flesh is against the spirit in its desire, and the spirit against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you do not do the very things you want to do. 18 Furthermore, if you are being led by spirit, you are not under law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, . . . 22 On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 mildness, self-control. . . . 25 If we are living by spirit, let us also go on walking orderly by spirit. 26 Let us not become egotistical, stirring up competition with one another, envying one another.

So the primary purpose of God sending the spirit into the hearts of Christians, a kind of anointing by holy spirit, is so that we will produce the fruitage that grows from that spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness and self-control. LHM highlighted love and faith and added obedience. This is appropriate too, as obedience to one another is a way of walking orderly by spirit. Paul used the expression, "slave for one another" which is also a recognition that we should always be prepared to accept orders from one another, as long as they are in line with love and faith.

My point is that by thinking about what this "spirit" produces, we can use common sense to know what we should accept as "inspired." We can see how all of it fits the core teachings that fit the spirit of Christ Jesus.

Identifying books to be included in the inspired canon seems to be simpler process that others might be overthinking. It's based on some expected principles and a little common sense. To keep from going on too long, I'll pick up on that point in the next post.

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46 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

My point is that by thinking about what this "spirit" produces, we can use common sense to know what we should accept as "inspired." We can see how all of it fits the core teachings that fit the spirit of Christ Jesus.

Identifying books to be included in the inspired canon seems to be simpler process that others might be overthinking. It's based on some expected principles and a little common sense. To keep from going on too long, I'll pick up on that point in the next post.

 

48 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

So the primary purpose of God sending the spirit into the hearts of Christians, a kind of anointing by holy spirit, is so that we will produce the fruitage that grows from that spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness and self-control.

All in all, what was said and ideas/thoughts expressed in comment, giving very nice way of how to have advanced, "inspired" thinking and reasoning. You put word "inspired" on another level of meaning, for JW members to take in consideration. This is in harmony with another verse, how everything what is "good" is from God. And by that it is "inspired", in very wide meaning of the word.

This concept "confirms" G. Jackson testimony at ARC how "GB is not the only spokesperson for God" :))

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When it comes to identifying writings that belong in the inspired canon, we can look to whether the writing reflects the fruitages of the spirit. We can start with what we know, and then build from there using common sense and spiritual principles.

First of all, let's say we were to accept the restrictive criteria of modern scholars who don't really care for the spiritual value of the content of scripture. Even these scholars will generally all agree that Paul was the writer of several of the letters, and since Paul wrote them, it must have been between his conversion and his death. Therefore Google would return this on a query about Paul's actual letters:

Seven letters (with consensus dates) considered genuine by most scholars:
  • First Thessalonians (c. 50 AD)
  • Galatians (c. 53)
  • First Corinthians (c. 53–54)
  • Philippians (c. 55)
  • Philemon (c. 55)
  • Second Corinthians (c. 55–56)
  • Romans (c. 57)

Some would add another book or two, but these are considered to be a core set of Paul's writings that few would argue with. So now we could read these carefully and extrapolate that there is really nothing in Ephesians, Colossians, or 2 Thessalonians that teaches anything different from these books. And we could continue on from there. Any doctrine in those other letters conforms perfectly with the accepted letters. In fact, they could have easily grown out of combinations of writings that congregations from many places had collected from multiple real letters, real speeches, and real sayings. Just as John said of Jesus that many more scrolls could be written of things he did and said, the same could have been true of Paul, whose ministry was probably nearly 10 times longer than that of Jesus.

Of course, we also have Luke who said that there were many other Gospels about Jesus. And we have Paul already mentioning that letters might show up "as though from us [Paul and his companions]." The reason to be careful of any of these additional gospels or letters would be if they taught a different doctrine. Paul said that different doctrine should not be accepted, even if it came from an angel out of heaven. This is another way of saying that Paul knew the gospel he preached was authorized by Christ Jesus himself. His "word" or his "gospel" embodied the spirit of Christ.

So Paul's core writings can become the touchstone by which we could evaluate the rest of the Christian Greek Scriptures. (And by extension, quotes from Paul referencing the Hebrew Scriptures give us a core set of Hebrew Scritpures to do the same with if anyone were to doubt a core canon of Hebrew Scriptures.)

We know that already in the first century there were additional writings that were already beginning to represent Jesus within a different doctrinal structure. Jesus was not being accepted everywhere as a real physical person born in the line of David, who had preached, and been killed under Pontius Pilate, and had been resurrected to heaven. Some were beginning to teach an atheistic version of Jesus who had not really existed or died in a physical sense, but who merely embodied secret knowledge that only a few special teachers could explain.

But this actually helps us define the inspired canon. During Paul's life he made clear the full, necessary "gospel" and also made it clear that there were things that others might be saying that were not necessary, or even harmful to that message.

(1 Thessalonians 3:12-5:1) . . .  4 Finally, brothers, just as you received instruction from us on how you should walk in order to please God, just as you are in fact walking, we request you and appeal to you by the Lord Jesus to keep doing it more fully. 2 For you know the instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus. . . .  just as we told you previously and also strongly warned you. . . .9 However, concerning brotherly love, you do not need us to write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another. . . . 11 Make it your aim to live quietly and to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we instructed you, 12 so that you may walk decently in the eyes of people outside and not need anything. . . . 18 So keep comforting one another with these words. 5 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you.

They needed no more doctrinal instruction. The spirit itself taught them by God how to love one another, and live decently. They needed nothing more to be written about the "times and seasons," either. There was a lot of "falsely called knowledge" being spoken about, but Paul focused on the important part of the Gospel.

(1 Corinthians 1:30-2:2) 30 But it is due to him that you are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom, 31 so that it may be just as it is written: “The one who boasts, let him boast in Jehovah.” 2 So when I came to you, brothers, I did not come with extravagant speech or wisdom declaring the sacred secret of God to you. 2 For I decided not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ, and him executed on the stake.

After Paul, teachers would try to gain a following by creating new "knowledge" and "sacred secrets" and use human wisdom to create a Christian "philosophy" or "gnosis" even to the point of denying an actual human Christ who was impaled. It was based on Greek philosophies and human wisdom rather than wisdom from God.

But because of this development, we end up with statements about how to identify any writing from the first century that was acceptable and which ones were unacceptable. We can get to the canonicity of 1 John later, but it provides a perfectly good touchstone for identifying additional writings from the first century that were to be considered acceptable.

(1 John 4:1-6) 4 Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired statement, but test the inspired statements to see whether they originate with God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you know that the inspired statement is from God: Every inspired statement that acknowledges Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God. 3 But every inspired statement that does not acknowledge Jesus does not originate with God. Furthermore, this is the antichrist’s inspired statement that you have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world. 4 You originate with God, little children, and you have conquered them, because the one who is in union with you is greater than the one who is in union with the world. 5 They originate with the world; that is why they speak what originates with the world and the world listens to them. 6 We originate with God. Whoever comes to know God listens to us; whoever does not originate with God does not listen to us. By this we distinguish the inspired statement of truth from the inspired statement of error.

So, based on the well-attested idea that this was written by the end of the first century, it is saying that all known Christian writings up to that time were known to be "inspired" as long as they were not of the type that denied the physical, fleshly existence of Jesus Christ. This is a fairly simple criterion for first century Christian documents. No other significant doctrinal issue was competing with true Christian documents by the end of the first century. This was timely, too, because we know a lot about these gnostic beliefs from about 120 to 300 CE. Paul was in line with this same idea when he said:

(1 Corinthians 12:1-3) . . .Now concerning the spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were people of the nations, you were influenced and led astray to those voiceless idols, following wherever they might lead you. 3 Now I would have you know that nobody when speaking by God’s spirit says: “Jesus is accursed!” and nobody can say: “Jesus is Lord!” except by holy spirit.

Much more to say of course, but this is a long and complex topic.

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      Holy Spirit, or Holy Ghost, is a term found in English translations of the Bible, but understood differently among the Abrahamic religions.[1][2]

      For the large majority of Christians, the Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost, from Old English gast, "spirit") is the third divine person of the Holy Trinity: the "Triune God" manifested as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; each person itself being God.[1][2][3]

      Jehovah's Witnesses view the Holy Spirit, not as an actual person separate from Jehovah, but as His "energy" or "active force", that he uses to accomplish his will in creation and redemption.[63]
      Symbolism
      The Holy Spirit is frequently referred to by metaphor and symbol, both doctrinally and biblically. Theologically speaking these symbols are a key to understanding of the Holy Spirit and his actions, and are not mere artistic representations.[34][66] Water – signifies the Holy Spirit's action in Baptism, such that in the manner that "by one Spirit [believers] were all baptized", so they are "made to drink of one Spirit".[1Cor 12:13] Thus the Spirit is also personally the living water welling up from Christ impaled[Jn 19:34] [1 Jn 5:8] as its source and welling up in Christians to eternal life.[66][67] Anointing – The symbolism of bless with oil also signifies the Holy Spirit, to the point of becoming a synonym for the Holy Spirit. The coming of the Spirit is referred to as his "anointing".[2Cor 1:21]. The title "Christ" (in Hebrew, messiah) means the one "anointed" by God's Spirit.[66][67] Fire – symbolizes the transforming energy of the Holy Spirit's actions. In the form of tongues "as of fire", the Holy Spirit rested on the disciples on the morning of Pentecost.[66][67] Cloud and light – The Spirit comes upon the Virgin Mary and "overshadows" her, so that she might conceive and give birth to Jesus. On the mountain of transfiguration, the Spirit in the "cloud came and overshadowed" Jesus, Moses and Elijah, Peter, James and John, and "a voice came out of the cloud, saying, 'This is my Son, my Chosen; listen to him!'"[67][Lk 9:34–35] The dove – When Christ comes up from the water of his baptism, the Holy Spirit, in the form of a dove, comes down upon him and remains with him.[66][67][Mt 3:16] Wind – The Spirit is likened to the "wind that blows where it will,"[Jn 3:8] and described as "a sound from heaven like the rush of a mighty wind."[Acts 2:24] [66] Jesus and the Holy Spirit
      In the Farewell Discourse Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to his disciples after his departure,[11] 
      The New Testament details a close relationship between the Holy Spirit and Jesus during his earthly life and ministry.[8] 
      Bible books of Luke and Matthew, state that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of Mary.

      Specific New Testament references to the interaction of Jesus and the Holy Spirit during his earthly life, and the enabling power of the Holy Spirit during his ministry include:[8][9][31]

      "Spirit without measure" having been given to Jesus in John 3:34, referring to the word spoken by Jesus (Rhema) being the words of God.[32]
      Baptism of Jesus, with the Holy Spirit descending on him as a dove in Matthew 3:13–17, Mark 1:9–11 and Luke 3:21–23
      Temptation of Jesus, in Matthew 4:1 the Holy Spirit led Jesus to the desert to be tempted
      The Spirit casting out demons (Matthew 12:28), in Exorcising the blind and mute man miracle
      Rejoice the Spirit in Luke 10:21 where seventy disciples are sent out by Jesus
      In Matthew 26:41 during the Agony in the Garden before his crucifixion, Jesus tells his disciples to watch and pray, in order not to fall into temptation for "the Spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak"
      Acts 1:2 states that until his death and resurrection, Jesus "had given commandment through the Holy Spirit unto the apostles"
      Referring to the sacrifice of Jesus to be sacrificed out of obedience to the father, the Letter of Paul to the Hebrews 9:14 states that Jesus "through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish unto God"
      In his Farewell Discourse to his disciples, Jesus promised that he would "send the Holy Spirit" to them after his departure, in John 15:26 stating: "whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth... shall bear witness of me".[10][11]

      The Holy Spirit as a dove in the Annunciation by Rubens, 1628
      Fruit and Gifts of the Spirit
      The "fruit of the Holy Spirit"[52] consists of "permanent dispositions"[52], virtuous characteristics engendered in the Christian by the action of the Holy Spirit.[53] 
        "..On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law." - Galatians 5:22-23
      In the Letter to the Galatians these nine characteristics are in contrast to the "works of the flesh" and highlight the positive manifestations of the work of the Holy Spirit in believers.

      The "gifts of the Holy Spirit"[52] are distinct from the Fruit of the Spirit, and consist of specific abilities granted to the individual Christian.[48] They are frequently known by the Greek word for gift, Charisma, from which the term charismatic derives. There is no generally agreed upon exhaustive list of the gifts, and various Christian denominations use different lists, often drawing upon 1 Corinthians 12, Romans 12 and Ephesians 4.[54]
        Denominational variations
      Icon of the Fathers of the Council holding the Nicene Creed
      Some Christian denominations, have doctrinal variations in their beliefs regarding the Holy Spirit. A well-known example is the Filioque controversy regarding the Holy Spirit - one of the key differences between the teachings of the Western Church and Eastern Orthodox beliefs, ranking at the level of the disagreement about the papal primacy.[56][57]

      The Filioque debate centers around whether the Nicene Creed should state that the Spirit "proceeds from the Father" and then have a stop, as the creed was initially adopted in Greek (and followed thereafter by the Eastern Church), or should say "from the Father and the Son" as was later adopted in Latin and followed by the Western Church, filioque being "and the Son" in Latin.[58]

      Towards the end of the 20th century, discussions took place about the removal of Filioque in the Nicene Creed from Anglican prayer books along the lines of the Eastern Orthodox approach, but these still have not reached a state of final implementation.[59]

      The majority of mainstream Protestantism hold similar views on the theology of the Holy Spirit as the Roman Catholic Church, but there are significant differences in belief between Pentecostalism and the rest of Protestantism.[1][60] Pentecostalism has a focus on "Baptism with the Spirit", relying on Acts 1:5 which refers to "now you will baptize with the Holy Spirit".[61] The more recent Charismatic movements have a focus on the "gifts of the Spirit" (such as healing, prophecy, etc.) and rely on 1 Corinthians 12 as a scriptural basis, but often differ from Pentecostal movements.[62]

      Non-trinitarian views about the Holy Spirit differ significantly from mainstream Christian doctrine. Jehovah's Witnesses view the Holy Spirit, not as an actual person separate from God the Father, but as God's "energy" or "active force", that he uses to accomplish his will in creation and redemption.[63]

      Mormons believe that the Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead. He is a personage of spirit, without a body of flesh and bones.[64] He is often referred to as the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Lord, or the Comforter.[65] See also

      Holy Spirit - Talk by David Gibson Jr. in the UK (pre-1980)
      Joseph and the Operation of Jehovahs Holy Spirit - Talk by Ulysses Grant - 1971
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        Early Church Fathers viewpoints:
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      ORIGEN OF ALEXANDRIA ON ISAIAH 48v16 References
      Millard J. Erickson (1992). Introducing Christian Doctrine. Baker Book House. p. 103. T C Hammond; Revised and edited by David F Wright (1968). In Understanding be Men:A Handbook of Christian Doctrine. (sixth ed.). Inter-Varsity Press. pp. 54–56 and 128–131. Grudem, Wayne A. 1994. Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine. Leicester, England: Inter-Varsity Press; Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan. Page 226. Acts and Pauline writings by Watson E. Mills, Richard F. Wilson 1997 ISBN 0-86554-512-X, pages xl–xlx Jesus and the Gospels: An Introduction and Survey by Craig L. Blomberg 2009 ISBN 0-8054-4482-3, page 280 Grabe, Petrus J. The Power of God in Paul's Letters 2008 ISBN 978-3-16-149719-3, pp. 248–249 Spirit of Truth: The origins of Johannine pneumatology by John Breck 1990 ISBN 0-88141-081-0, pages 1–5 Jesus in Trinitarian Perspective: An Introductory Christology by Scott Horrell, Donald Fairbairn, Garrett DeWeese and Bruce Ware (Oct 1, 2007) ISBN 080544422X pages 208-213   John by Andreas J. Köstenberger 2004 ISBN 080102644X, page 442 The Gospel of John: Question by Question by Judith Schubert 2009 ISBN 0809145499, pages 112–127 Lord, giver of life by Jane Barter Moulaison 2006 ISBN 0-88920-501-9 page 5 Vickers, Jason E. Invocation and Assent: The Making and the Remaking of Trinitarian Theology. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing, 2008. ISBN 0-8028-6269-1, pages 2–5 The Cambridge Companion to the Trinity by Peter C. Phan 2011 ISBN 0521701139, pages 3–4 Companion Bible–KJV–Large Print by E. W. Bullinger, Kregel Publications, 1999. ISBN 0-8254-2099-7. Page 146. Robin W. Lovin, Foreword to the English translation of Karl Barth's The Holy Spirit and the Christian Life (1993 ISBN 0-664-25325-3), page xvii Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . The Guardian (London). 2005-04-11. Retrieved 2010-05-04. Matthew 28:19 Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. The Gospel of Luke by Luke Timothy Johnson, Daniel J. Harrington 1992 ISBN 0-8146-5805-9, page 195 1, 2, and 3 John by John Painter, Daniel J. Harrington 2002 ISBN 0-8146-5812-1, page 324 The anointed community: the Holy Spirit in the Johannine tradition by Gary M. Burge 1987 ISBN 0-8028-0193-5, pages 14–21 Theology of Paul the Apostle by James D. G. Dunn 2003 ISBN 0-567-08958-4, pages 418–420 A Concise Dictionary of Theology by Gerald O'Collins, Edward G. Farrugia 2004 ISBN 0-567-08354-3 page 115 Holy People of the World: A Cross-Cultural Encyclopedia, Volume 3 by Phyllis G. Jestice 2004 ISBN 1-57607-355-6, pages 393–394 1 & 2 Thessalonians by Jon A. Weatherly 1996 ISBN 0-89900-636-1, pages 42–43 The Acts of the Apostles by Luke Timothy Johnson, Daniel J. Harrington 1992 ISBN 0-8146-5807-5, pages 14–18 A Bible Handbook to the Acts of the Apostles by Mal Couch 2004 ISBN 0-8254-2391-0, pages 120–129 Reading Acts: A Literary and Theological Commentary on the Acts of the Apostles by Charles H. Talbert 2005 ISBN 1-57312-277-7, pages 24–25 Karl Barth (1949). Dogmatics in Outline. New York Philosophical Library. p. 95. The Gospel According to John: An Introduction and Commentary by Colin G. Kruse (Jun 2004) ISBN 0802827713, page 123 The Cambridge Companion to Christian Doctrine by Colin E. Gunton (Jun 28, 1997) ISBN 052147695X, pages 280–285 Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Pope Pius XII (1943). Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . See discussion in "Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ". Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. 1913. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Luke 1:35 Harrington, Daniel J., SJ. "Jesus Goes Public." America, Jan. 7–14, 2008, p. 38 [Mt 3:17] [Mk 1:11] [Lk 3:21-22] John 15:26 John 14:16 Theology for the Community of God by Stanley J. Grenz (Jan 31, 2000) ISBN 0802847552 page 380 Baptism in the Early Church: History, Theology, and Liturgy in the First Five Centuries by Everett Ferguson (Mar 29, 2009) ISBN 0802827489, page 776 Systematic Theology by Lewis Sperry Chafer 1993 ISBN 0-8254-2340-6, page 25 The Wiersbe Bible Commentary: The Complete New Testament by Warren W. Wiersbe 2007 ISBN 978-0-7814-4539-9, page 471 The mystery of the Triune God by John Joseph O'Donnell 1988 ISBN 0-7220-5760-1 page 75 Millard J. Erickson (1992). Introducing Christian Doctrine. Baker Book House. pp. 265–270. Though the term "born again" is most frequently used by evangelical Christians, most denominations do consider that the new Christian is a "new creation" and "born again". See for example the Catholic Encyclopedia Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ] The Holy Spirit and His Gifts. J. Oswald Sanders. Inter-Varsity Press. chapter 5. T C Hammond; Revised and edited by David F Wright (1968). In Understanding be Men:A Handbook of Christian Doctrine. (sixth ed.). Inter-Varsity Press. p. 134. CCC nos. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . The Epistle to the Galatians (The New International Commentary on the New Testament) by Ronald Y. K. Fung (Jul 22, 1988) Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing ISBN 0802825095, pages 262–263 Erickson, Millard J. (1992). Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Publishing Group. ISBN 0-801-03215-6; ISBN 978-08-0103-215-8. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . ISBN 0-801-02250-9; ISBN 978-08-0102-250-0. Shaw, Russell; Stravinskas, Peter M. J. (1998). Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Huntington, Indiana: Our Sunday Visitor Publishing. p. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . ISBN 0-879-73669-0; ISBN 978-08-7973-669-9. Kasper, Walter. The Petrine ministry. Catholics and Orthodox in Dialogue: Academic Symposium Neld at the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity. Paulist Press. p. 188. ISBN 978-0-8091-4334-4. Kinnamon, Michael; Cope, Brian E. (1997). The Ecumenical Movement: An Anthology of Key Texts and Voices. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing. p. 172.ISBN 978-0-8028-4263-3. The Holy Spirit: Classic and Contemporary Readings by Eugene F. Rogers Jr. (May 19, 2009) Wiley ISBN 1405136235, page 81 Introduction to Theology by Owen C. Thomas and Ellen K. Wondra (Jul 1, 2002 )ISBN 0819218979, page 221 David Watson (1973). One in the Spirit. Hodder and Stoughton. pp. 39–64. Encyclopedia of Protestantism by J. Gordon Melton 2008 ISBN 0816077460, page 69 Encyclopedia of Protestantism by J. Gordon Melton 2008 ISBN 0816077460, page 134 Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Awake!: 14–15. July 2006. "In the Bible, God's Holy Spirit is identified as God's power in action. Hence, an accurate translation of the Bible's Hebrew text refers to God’s spirit as "God's active force."" Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. "True to the Faith", p. 81Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. David Watson (1973). One in the Spirit. Hodder and Stoughton. pp. 20–25. Catechism of the Catholic Church: Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Renaissance Art: A Topical Dictionary by Irene Earls 1987 ISBN 0-313-24658-0, page 70 Gardner's Art Through the Ages: The Western Perspective by Fred S. Kleiner ISBN 495573558, page 349 Vladimir Lossky, 1999 The Meaning of Icons ISBN 0-913836-99-0, page 17 We Believe in the Holy Spirit (Ancient Christian Doctrine, No. 4) by Joel C. Elowsky (Jul 13, 2009) InterVarsity ISBN 0830825347, page 14 The Holy Spirit: Classic and Contemporary Readings by Eugene F. Rogers Jr. (May 19, 2009) Wiley ISBN 1405136235, pages 121–123  
    • By The Librarian
      Franz Fred - Operation of the Holy Spirit.mp3

      Operation of the Holy Spirit 
      Holy spirit and history
      by:
      1982 
      Allegheny PA 
      1:51:51
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Witness:
      I pay attention to what you write ... it being easier the shorter the epistle is, but I have an observation that in THIS case I consider to be quite true.
      The fact that down at the bottom, below the Elder  level of organization, the crapola that sometimes comes out of JW leadership, in it's self serving, self aggrandizing pontification, is somehow (for the most part) subtracted out, and our lives are made much better in every way,
      The only explanation I can deduce for this phenomena is "Holy Spirit", working in the minds and hearts of the JWs down at the bottom of the stack.
      It's like watching Forest Gump wander through life, thinking he has invested in a start-up fruit company ... and it turns out to be Apple Computer.
    • By 4Jah2me
      I do hear occasionally on this forum, the expression of, (oh dear it's gone now), I'll say Basic beliefs, Foundation beliefs, of Jehovah's Witnesses. 
      My point being, when were those basic foundations started ?  Yes we have Russell and Rutherford et al. So who decided what was what and when ? 
      We have things like 'hell fire' eternal damnation' ' soul in continual punishment' etc. But who basically found the truth from God's word about 'The dead are conscious of nothing at all' ?
      Then we have the 'resurrection of the dead',  those being split into heavenly and earthly. Who decided these things from scriptures ? And when ? 
      It would probably take me 10 years, which I probably do not have left, to research all the things I wish to know. 
      So here is a question. From 1960, what new serious Bible knowledge do we have from those whom regard themselves as the F&DS or top of the tree ?
      What have they given to the congregation that is of extreme importance ?  BUT, more importantly what have they given that they haven't changed since giving it ? 
      So we've lost the 7,000 year creative days. We've lost Armageddon in 1975, We've lost no blood / replaced with blood fractions. We've lost the Superior Authorities as God and Christ, and probably lots more. BUT what important beliefs have we gained since 1960 ? What IMPORTANT SCRIPTURAL input have those at the top made since 1960 ? 
       
    • By 4Jah2me
      Point 1. I really do laugh at this term "Only game in town"   As I've said before the JEWISH RELIGIOUS LEADERS would have said that serving God by obeying THEM and the Mosaic Law, was the only game in town. Jesus however proved those Religious leaders to be wrong. Jesus and his disciples carried over the good points of the Mosaic Law and discarded the bits no longer needed. (Such as animal sacrifices, circumcision etc). 
      Russell & Co came out of former religions. I presume they must have carried over some good points from those former religions, then made adjustments or changed doctrines.
      So why would it not be possible for people that have left the JW Org to form a new religion ?  Carrying over the good and disposing of the bad, of which there seems to be plenty....
      I'm not saying it will happen but it does dispose of this idea of 'the only game in town' brainwashing. JW's seem to be taught that there cannot be anything else ever. What if Russell had believed that, the Bible Students would have never been formed. 
      Point 2.  The 'Truth' / JW Org.
      As I read more and more on here I am finding out that the Governing Body / Writing Dept'  / Legal Dept' et al,  have deliberately told many lies.
      The latest I'm reading (on a new topic on here) but the info stems back a while, seems to contain information whereby the 'Org' / those in charge at the time, implied, that children cannot get baptised, and that blood transfusions were acceptable to the Organisation. It seems that this was written in order to get favours from a certain government. 
      Both of those things are lies but seem to be deliberately used for some form of dishonest gain.
      Then of course we have lawyers telling lies in court about shunning. 
      And C.S.A court cases have proved that elders and others have deliberately lied. And the American 'section' of the JW Org deliberately withholding information regarding such matters.
      Link this to misuse of scriptures, such as, Superior Authorities, which deliberately took away people's conscience / freedom of choice, in WW2.
      And I'm sure people here can come up with lots more examples of lies, deliberate wrongdoing, mistakes, misinterpretations, 'new light' corrections et al.
      Why am i writing all this ?  Well I am proving two points. 
      1. If it's your 'only game in town' then it's not a good one. 
      2. That calling it 'The Truth' is totally deceptive.
      I do not think you would like it if I gave you a meal that was three quarters yummy, but a quarter poison. The poison might well contaminate the good food !
      So, saying that the Org / GB are three quarters right does not help. 
       
       
       
       
    • By Bubba Johnson Jr
      this is the first time I have seen this in print:14 During the great tribulation, a change will take place regarding the brothers who take the lead on earth. At some point, all anointed ones who are still on earth will be gathered to heaven to share in the war of Armageddon. (
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) This means that the Governing Body will no longer  be with us on earth. However, the great crowd will remain organized. Capable brothers from among the other sheep will take the lead. We will need to show our loyalty by supporting these brothers and by following their God-given direction. Our survival will depend on it!
    • By The Librarian
      "Also, do not be grieving God’s holy spirit, with which you have been sealed for a day of releasing by ransom."
      - Ephesians 4:30
       
      Be wrathful but do not sin.....
      Staying angry could be what could grieve the spirit.
       
      See also: 
      Article on 
       
    • By AnonymousBrother
      Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?
      That might over one case.
    • By The Librarian
      Glass Ulysses - Joseph and the Operation of Jehovahs Holy Spirit.mp3
      Ulysses V Glass
      Joseph and the Operation of Jehovahs Holy Spirit
      3/22/1971 
      Florida
      1:56:55

      See also:
       
    • By Bible Speaks
      How did you learn the Truth? 
      I was raised in the Truth. ?

    • By JOHN BUTLER
      "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,"
      2 Timothy 3 v 16
      Was this in it's way a small prophecy ?                 
      The 2nd book of Timothy was written 65 C.E.  However 1,2,3, John and Revelation were written much later.
      So we have two points, 1. The writings were not complete when Paul wrote that information. 2, The Bible had not been constructed so no idea would have been formed as to what the Bible would contain. 
      Were there other writings ? Would they be considered as Scripture? 
      It seems that Paul was inspired to write that "All scripture is inspired.... " 
       
    • By Bible Speaks
      “Send out your light and your truth. May these themselves lead me.” Psalm 43:3.  JEHOVAH is very considerate in the way he makes his purposes known to his servants. Instead of revealing the truth all at once in one blinding flash of light, he enlightens us progressively. Our trek along life’s pathway might be compared to a walk that a hiker takes down a long trail. He starts out early in the morning and sees little. As the sun begins to rise slowly over the horizon, the hiker is able to distinguish a few features of his surroundings. The rest he sees in hazy outline. But as the sun continues its ascent, he can see farther and farther into the distance. So it is with the spiritual light that God provides. He allows us to discern a few things at a time. God’s Son, Jesus Christ, provided spiritual enlightenment in a similar manner. Let us learn how Jehovah enlightened his people in ancient times and how he does so today.

    • By Srecko Sostar
      "clear, pure water of truth" ?? ...and famous question that can be hear from platform and in witnessing "Would you drink water from a glass with just one drop of poison in it?"
       
      Water That Leads to Life
      ..."Jehovah’s Witnesses invite you to taste the pure waters of truth." .....
      [Picture on page 9]
      "You can find the ‘waters of truth’ at your local Kingdom Hall"
       
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    • By Jack Ryan
      In paragraph 9 of this weeks Watchtower it was talking about how children’s comments at the meetings can prompt newly interested ones to recognise the ring of truth.
      I donÂ’t recall ever hearing it referred to as the ring of truth before. Is this a new phrase theyÂ’re going to try and get everybody using along the lines of, the truth, the brotherhood, this wicked system of things, etc etc.
       
    • By Queen Esther
      THE  TRUTH  ABOUT  CHRISTMAS......
      The year was 1928, when Jehovah's people came to understand the God-dishonoring roots of Christmas. Since then, the pagan roots of Christmas customs have become general public knowledge..... but few people have made changes in their way of life as a result. But, Jehovah's Witnesses are always willing to make the needed changes in order to become more acceptable as servants of Jehovah God.
      When shown that celebrating the birth of Jesus had actually become of greater interest to people than the ransom provided by his death; that the revelry of the holiday and the spirit in which many gifts were given did not honor God;  that the magi whose gift-giving was being imitated were actually demon-inspired astrologers;  that parents set an example for their children in lying by what they told them about Santa Claus;  that  "St. Nicholas"
      (Santa Claus) was admittedly another name for Satan the Devil himself;  and that such festivals were, as acknowledged  by Cardinal Newman in his "Essay on the development of Christian Doctrine" were "the very instruments and appendages of demon-worship"  the church had adopted....  When made aware of these things, Jehovah's Witnesses promptly and permanently ceased having any part in  Christmas  celebrations.
      Jehovah's Witnesses do have good times with their family and friends. But, they do not participate in holidays and celebrations that are linked with pagan gods (as is true of such holidays as Easter, New Year's Day,  May Day and Mother's day).  Read, 2.Cor. 6:14-17.  Like the early Christians,  Jehovah's Witnesses do not even celebrate birthdays. They also respectfully refrain from sharing in national holidays, that memorialize political or military events and also refrain from giving worshipful honor to national heroes.
      WHY ?
      BECAUSE  JEHOVAH'S  WITNESSES  ARE  NO  PART  OF  THE  WORLD !
      Reference, Proclaims Book,  pages  198-200....
      ( by  Brother  Roger B. Elder )     Thank  you  Brother  Elder !
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Why the Watchtower Study Edition,  January 2018, page 26, says: 
       
      "Satan’s world has made humans suffer for some 6,000 years."? How do they get that calculation?
       
      HOW TO BE HAPPY
      19. Who can never be really happy?
      19 Satan’s world has made humans suffer for some 6,000 years. Now, in the last days of this system, the earth is full of people who focus on themselves, money, and pleasures. They think of what they can get and make their own desires the main thing in life. But people like that cannot be truly happy! In contrast, the Bible says: “Happy is the one who has the God of Jacob as his helper, whose hope is in Jehovah his God.”—Psalm 146:5.
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    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Transcript - Promoting Love and Respect for Truth.pdf
    • By Cos
      I find it strange how JWs will sometimes regard the Holy Spirit as an attribute of God; and at other times resolve the passages in which He is spoken of into a roundabout way, or indirect way for God Himself; or, to express both as a figure of speech; to me this shows that JW have no real idea, but will say anything except the obvious.
       
      In establishing the fact that the Holy Spirit is a Person, note when you read Scripture how frequent the Holy Spirit is associated (and distinguished) with two other Persons in equal degree! <><
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole




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