I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life

[TrueTomHarley]

I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life, apparently designed to demonstrate that there is no God:

See original: https://partiallyexaminedlife.com/2012/08/02/the-flow-problem-of-evil/

 

The dopiest part has to be the boxes at bottom and lower left. They pose a dilemma akin to: “Can God make a mountain that he cannot move?”

People who would have you believe that they are ‘thinkers’ assume they have knocked it out of the park with this ‘gotcha.’

The most skilled critical thinkers of our age employ their intellect to miss what is right before their nose. Their underlying assumption, entirely unproven, is that God should be Santa Claus, showering presents without regard for whoever is naughty or nice. If he doesn’t do that, then there must be no God.

[Edit....I played with this one all morning and eventually expanded it to something I put on my own blog. Comment on it here, if you will, not there, since my own comment section is selective and does not stay open long in any event:

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2020/04/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-stupidest-charts-i-have-ever-seen-on-evil-and-suffeirng.html ]

[Anna]

Well that's an easy one:

"An all powerful, all knowing all good God could and would destroy Satan"

Of course, just not on that idiot's who made up the chart, time frame 😀

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

In criticizing the above chart details are important.

The MOST IMPORTANT detail is the false assumptions used as part of the flow process.

It is important to critically analyze the PRESUMPTIONS used to set up any argument, treatise, or chart.

Of all the charts I have ever seen, the one that NOBODY in my congregation understands is the multiple generation chart referenced by GB member David Splane

The Elder in our congregation, probably the smartest person in the county, when I asked him about it, he was quiet for a moment and said "I think they are trying to do the best that they can ...", indicating to me that he can not make any sense of it.

Perhaps TTH can.(?)

[JW Insider]

@James Thomas Rook Jr., I know that I've already said more than my share about this chart. But there is one point that I have never seen discussed very clearly. It's the fact that it's another way of saying the following:

This generation will by all means have passed away before all these things occur.

That probably sounds bad, since Jesus said exactly the opposite. But look closely at the chart and note the actual earliest and latest bounds shown for:

|<-- "This Generation" -->|

On the chart, "This Generation" only reaches to the time when the last person anointed by the year 1914 has died. Notice that big gap before "The Great Tribulation." It does NOT continue to last into the period when a "group 2" anointed person remains alive after the persons from "group 1" have died. And the talks always imply that there are already no more living persons from "group 1."

Therefore "This Generation" already finished in 1992 or perhaps a few years after that, although no specific examples were ever brought up as possible candidates, even if unnamed. The idea is given that there may have been possible candidates from group 1 that outlived FWF, but we can assume that these would not have outlived him for very many years. These appear to already be dead based on indications from the talk that Brother Splane was giving.

Although some might try to stretch group 1, we should remember that a person is not considered "anointed" until they are baptized. A reasonable baptismal age seems to be from about 14 to 30, so we'll accept 14. For a person to be anointed by 1914, they should have been baptized, presumably as a "Bible Student" and therefore aware of the Watchtower's view of the sign in 1914. This means they were born by or before 1900, baptized by or before 1914, and would be at least 120 years old today if they were part of "This Generation."  

Therefore "This Generation" has already passed away, and all these things did not occur. So, clearly, we are being asked to believe the very opposite of what Jesus said about the generation.

Jesus: This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.

Splane: This generation will by all means have passed away before all these things occur.

Whom do we choose to believe?

[Anna]

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Splane: This generation will by all means have passed away before all these things occur.

Whom do we choose to believe?

Yes, but don't forget we are now applying an untraditional concept for the word "generation", one based on (overlapping)  contemporaries of that generation. If you think about it, it was quite genial coming up with this "extension" 😄

[TrueTomHarley]

5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Perhaps TTH can.(?)

Yes. The chart is used to account for such things that are yet in the future. Loan me that time machine you have stored behind the chicken coop. I’ll race forward, check it out, and assuming you have left me with a full tank of gas, return to let you know what I’ve found.

Most likely it is going to come down to some old buzzard who refuses to die, and everyone wishes he would because he remains the last overlapping link, but he appears more and more vigorous with each passing day,  and he buttonholes all he see to tout the virtues of his line of health supplements..

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

It is very hard to get a chicken coop up to 88 miles per hour,, even with a 1.21 Gigawatt battery.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Yes, but don't forget we are now applying an untraditional concept for the word "generation", one based on (overlapping)  contemporaries of that generation. If you think about it, it was quite genial coming up with this "extension" 😄

The only thing I consider when reading "..this generation will not pass away until all these things occur" ... is what did the Apostles understand it meant when Jesus said it to them?

All else is FANTASY!

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Yes, but don't forget we are now applying an untraditional concept for the word "generation"

We are, yes, but notice that the chart explicitly names "This Generation" from the quote in Matthew 24:34, and while we may have a specially defined "generation" that includes "This Generation," there is all that gap going up to the Great Tribulation that starts from just after 1992 up until the GT. That part is not part of "This Generation" (according to Splane's chart) even if it's part of our new definition of "generation."

Perhaps this is a mistake, and the chartmaker just forgot to extend our meaning of generation going all the way up to the Great Tribulation. It's pretty obvious that "all these things" must include the Great Tribulation according to Matthew, Mark and Luke.

[edited because it was even less clear before the edit]

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

It's like buying gas during the Jimmy Carter Administration.  You could only fill up your tank on odd number days if your license plate ended in an odd number, or on even numbered days if your license plate ended in an even number , or if you were an American Indian of Jewish descent and had SCUBA gear in your car.

[Anna]

23 hours ago, JW Insider said:

edited because it was even less clear before the edit]

Was that even possible? 😂

[Anna]

On 4/20/2020 at 11:22 PM, JW Insider said:

Perhaps this is a mistake, and the chartmaker just forgot to extend our meaning of generation going all the way up to the Great Tribulation. It's pretty obvious that "all these things" must include the Great Tribulation according to Matthew, Mark and Luke.

I see what you mean, it's like a chart within a chart. I think it's just trying to separate the "2nd generation" generation from the "1st generation" generation, which includes the overlap with both generations ending at an unknown time after 1992 (with a question mark), but it's then trying to show that the 2nd generation, which did not overlap with the 1st goes all the way to the GT.  Does that make sense? 🤔

In other words we have two classes of generation, an overlapping one and a non overlapping one 🤪

Reminds me a bit of when we got bogged down with types and anti types. I thought we were over that....?