Jump to content

Isabella

Jehovah’s Witnesses Sue FaithLeaks Owners Over Convention Videos

Recommended Posts

April 30, 2020, 2:12 PM

COURT: S.D.N.Y.

TRACK DOCKET: No. 1:20-cv-03366 (Bloomberg Law Subscription)

An entity owned by the Jehovah’s Witnesses sued the owners of the religious whistleblower site FaithLeaks on Thursday for allegedly infringing copyrights by posting the group’s materials publicly on the internet.

The Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society of Pennsylvania says the Truth & Transparency Foundation illegally reproduced 74 of its in-house videos on the FaithLeaks site.

FaithLeaks’ website says it is a “religious document archival project” that collects documents from whistleblowers in religious communities. It has published internal Watch Tower documents concerning the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ handling of sexual abuse claims and personal data.

    Hello guest!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be stunned if the WTB&TS, et al, was successful in their lawsuits, as in the United States the concept of "whistleblowers" is held in very high regard, and the "Fair Use Doctrine" of U.S. copyright law is interpreted very liberally.

There is a lot to be said and considered on this matter, and an excellent source is WIKIPEDIA.

.... want to be smarter and well informed on this specific issue?

Read THIS:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

I personally think we should be proud of every thing we say and do, and not object if someone else shouts it from the housetops.

If we SHOULD be ashamed of anything we have published, and the "Pillowgate" videos immediately come to mind, it is ONLY by public disclosure that whatever it is, that it will ever change.

Sometime  around the 1960's, at Assemblies, we used to have a Public Relations Department set up, but they changed the name to News Service, because PR was asking for something, and NS was giving away something for free.

Their lawsuit will generate more publicity by a factor of at least X 100, than ever existed before ... and when all is said and done, and if the WTB&TS wins the lawsuits ( improbable at best ..) it will NOT stop Brothers from leaking these videos to others, or them publishing them, actually IN the public interest, to anybody who has a computer and a piece of free software, such as "Freemake Video Downloader:.

That genie left the bottle a long time ago.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/1/2020 at 8:02 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

concept of "whistleblowers" is held in very high regard, and the "Fair Use Doctrine" of U.S. copyright law is interpreted very liberally.

If you stand for LGBTQ or belong to the right groups your rights are protected. If not...... you can forget to see justice.  The justice system has been corrupted. 

I know of many scientists lives that were ruined because they were persecuted for whistleblowing on the tech and pharma industrial complex.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True whistle blowers today have to run for their lives. Such as the cop who fled to Russia after investigating child trafficking in Florida.  Whistleblowers who do research on viruses and vaccinations ...... the list goes on and on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Matthew 5 v 38 through 42

 “You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ 39  However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him. 40  And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment;

    Hello guest!
 41  and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42  Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you.

The GB and their Lawyers do not understand the spiritual things from God. 

It also seems they are ashamed of their own videos. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Arauna said:

You think you do. 

I'm not a group of dictators making up rules to suit my own purpose and misleading millions of innocent people. I am only responsible for myself. 

Whereas your GB pretend to the F&DS and therefore take great responsibility upon themselves, whilst suppressing the rest of the Anointed ones. But what they offer is not true spiritual wisdom and they do not follow the instructions from Christ. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/7/2020 at 11:03 PM, 4Jah2me said:

not a group of dictators making

As I told you before, you do not acknowledge your ignorance regarding 'dictators'  because you bandy that word around as though it is ice-cream. 

Soon you will know what true dictators are.... the way the world is going now.... and you will long for the freedom you had before.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
dictator
 
noun
  1. a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force.
      • a person who behaves in an autocratic way.
      • (in ancient Rome) a chief magistrate with absolute power, appointed in an emergency.
     
    autocratic
     
    adjective
    1. relating to a ruler who has absolute power.
      "the constitutional reforms threatened his autocratic power"
      • taking no account of other people's wishes or opinions; domineering.
        "a man with a reputation for an autocratic management style"

    I think this describes your Governing Body very well 

     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

one who has obtained control by force.

Exactly- that is a dictator.

20 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

has absolute power.

Absolute power - like the CCP in China or North Korea.

 

That is why I say you have no clue what it is like to live under such regimes because your personal choice is taken away from you.  Soon you will know what it means when you have no choices at all, what you eat, what you buy, what you drink, what you say,  and what you do is controlled by the state. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Tom and James seem to think your GB cannot be removed or fired, so it would seem that your GB have absolute power over the CCJW and Watchtower soc. 

Your GB also say that God and Christ trusts the GB, so all of you JWs should trust your GB. 

And it is known that if anyone disagrees with the GB on anything that they will be d/fed for 'causing a division in the congregation', and that will be carried out by the congregation police known as Elders. 

Add to that the point of the GB telling the Anointed not to make themselves known and not to gather together and not to have Bible study together. 

So there is a form of dictatorship within the CCJW. 

Your outlook seems a bit bleak considering the scriptures say that 'just as it was in the days of Noah ... etc'  people eating and drinking and going about daily life, when the end comes.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Well Tom and James seem to think your GB cannot be removed or fired, so it would seem that your GB have absolute power over the CCJW and Watchtower soc. 

4J:

You seem to get disoriented and confused very easily, about who said what. Your credibility is already shot , with me, irregardless of the credibility of any arguments you may proffer, because of that.

2020-05-10_122622.jpg

 

And MY point is there is no one on Earth that has the power to fire the Governing Body for any reason whatsoever ... and I am lamenting that fact ... NOT exulting in it.

That makes them unaccountable to anyone, and immune to consequences for ANYTHING they do, at least inside the WTB&TS.

The same thing was true in Jesus' time ... but Jesus himself commanded that Jews "stay with that system", until he himself replaced it.

The GB is supposed to show mercy to us, but can't, because of policy.

That does NOT mean we can't be understanding that they are deeply flawed men, trapped in a system they created, and have no idea how to change it.

"STUFF HAPPENS" (paraphrased)

Get used to it ... that's the way things REALLY are.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ye of little faith.

Luke 18 v 27

He said: “The things impossible with men are possible with God.”

Your acceptance of the immorality and lies within your Org makes you a part of the problem James.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Arauna said:
11 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

MY point is there is no one on Earth that has the power to fire the Governing Body

As individuals they are accountable not as a group.

Well, JTR is right in his conclusion for a very long time :))

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@James Thomas Rook Jr. Sometimes it is not always the case, for there are other entities and or institutions, if put in the same spot, would do the same. An example of this, I will not name the entity, one of their biggest and well hidden network infrastructure spaces had an incident (a breach and attempted theft), and they not only committed to a 10 month long investigation, but they took action by means getting the police involved. Mind you, this investigation was an internal one, so not everyone of this entity knew what was going on, for they were only aware of new security polices that were put in place. This same entity did not care about the innocent bystanders involved and axed them just to be on the safe side.

That being said, if it is indeed their resource and or property, I see no reason at all.

Also your bank accounts are safe, hence the incident I've mentioned - you are welcome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/10/2020 at 5:31 PM, Arauna said:

As individuals they are accountable not as a group. If one of them breaks Jehovahs laws they will appoint a committee. 

That's pretty much it. Any group of people be it of a faith or even race, the action of one person does not define the actions of others, for someone to have such a mind said is professing bigotry in some way or form, this is the same case I am currently making with the Ahmaud Abrey shooting to ignorant folks that think everything they see on the news is 100% accurate.

Going back to God's Laws, yes, imperfect people will indeed break something, but never can it be an excuse to assume that because one person did something, everyone else is the same, a strong case I made against Mr. B on this forum several times over, as is with Witness and the others, whom as a collective, do not understand a thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote "as is with Witness and the others, whom as a collective, do not understand a thing. "

Someone else it seems that has a need to put people into one group. 

Quote "but never can it be an excuse to assume that because one person did something, everyone else is the same "

The Governing Body of CCJW say they are the Faithful and Discreet Slave. So the 8 men act as one. They work together, they make the rules for CCJW, they are responsible for Watchtower material. They are not individuals, they are a 'body'.  Therefor they are jointly responsible. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Quote "as is with Witness and the others, whom as a collective, do not understand a thing. "

Someone else it seems that has a need to put people into one group. 

Quote "but never can it be an excuse to assume that because one person did something, everyone else is the same "

The Governing Body of CCJW say they are the Faithful and Discreet Slave. So the 8 men act as one. They work together, they make the rules for CCJW, they are responsible for Watchtower material. They are not individuals, they are a 'body'.  Therefor they are jointly responsible. 

 

They are an octinity:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On 5/12/2020 at 3:34 PM, 4Jah2me said:

Quote "as is with Witness and the others, whom as a collective, do not understand a thing. "

Someone else it seems that has a need to put people into one group. 

Quote "but never can it be an excuse to assume that because one person did something, everyone else is the same "

The Governing Body of CCJW say they are the Faithful and Discreet Slave. So the 8 men act as one. They work together, they make the rules for CCJW, they are responsible for Watchtower material. They are not individuals, they are a 'body'.  Therefor they are jointly responsible. 

 

There is no need to be fearful to simply mention me (I know my responses), for as I recall, you did this last time when you made a false assumption, without mentioning me, and I asked you for evidence, you shy'd away.

What what is said is indeed the truth, the collective make remarks and assertions and bunch everyone into one group together (and there is a multitude of information of misuse of verses, accusations, mocking the actions of God, and believing something to be true when it is not, as with the hypocrisy of stating, and I quote one of them "I do not care or want to learn these things" yet the latter assumes what she has posted as a truth, mocking abuse, alluding to homosexuality as something formulated by God, and so forth). Despite such, the collective agreed that such is a truth despite the fact the real truth shatters the very armor they adorn themselves in and buckles their knees, more so, said folks attempted to make absurd accusations, I still recall one that backfired on said person on her own thread relating to women. A mentioned, even you made an assumption, proven to me false, and thus mark everyone as the same without understanding the view.

Now let's break down what you mentioned. No one is ignorant to the fact that most faith groups, be it organized and or not, have religious leaders, granted the focus is on the Jehovah's Witnesses, among them are the governing body. The term "governing body" is self explanatory, the definition states: a group of people who formulate the policy and direct the affairs of an institution in partnership with the managers, especially on a voluntary or part-time basis.

A more in-depth definition is: A governing body is a group of people that has the authority to exercise governance over an organization or political entity. The most formal is a government, a body whose sole responsibility and authority is to make binding decisions in a given geopolitical system (such as a state) by establishing laws.

Governing Bodies are in various institutions, not solely in religious institutions, I am sure you've grown up going to school to get some basic education, something of this matter should be known to you, if you are unaware, they it is safe to assume you do not pay attention. Moreover, if we are to have any example, we have the Apostolic governing body (or council) in ancient times, otherwise known as The Council of Jerusalem. Another example being the involvement of such bodies regarding the Gentiles and Circumcision. For, before Paul's conversion to the faith, Christianity, or Christians were part of the second Judaism Temple.

The Non-Jews, Gentiles, who wished to join Christianity, which at the time was mostly consist of Jewish followers, were expected to convert to Judaism, which likely meant in order to go about such, a grown male is to undergo circumcision for the uncircumcised, as is with following the dietary restrictions. Long story short, Apostle Paul insisted that faith in Christ was  required and is sufficient for one to seek out salvation and that the Mosaic Law was not as binding to the Gentiles compared to the Jews, and of course if you read this part of the Bible, you'd recognized of how things played out, none of these people were "Yes-Men". Planning and execution was in apply, and forwards the application.

Regarding JWs, it is stated that: The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is the ruling council of Jehovah's Witnesses based in the group's Warwick, New York headquarters. The body formulates doctrines, oversees the production of written material for publications and conventions, and administers the group's worldwide operations. Official publications refer to members of the Governing Body as followers of Christ rather than religious leaders.

That being said, what is mentioned is vastly different from what was stated by various folks here in the past on this forums, as for me I still see it as Controversial Posts, so I will continue to bring forth said accusations that have been refuted. Therefore, the statement I made is true when it comes to mixed information promoted by said collective that are "yes-man" to everything, hence assuming the actions of one person is somehow befitting of all people, which isn't the same as any governing body within any institution whereas planning and execution is involved, not merely agreeing "yes, yes, yes, of course" to everything without being presented with information.

On 5/13/2020 at 2:28 PM, Matthew9969 said:

They are an octinity:)

I guess Apostle Paul and the others was the same according to you. Regardless, regarding a collective in such institutions, what they have taken steps to differs from said collective here that agrees with each other not realizing the information is mixed and or missing some parts. Irony enough, when so and so's say something that is ridiculous absurd, the latter are often as quiet as church mice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/12/2020 at 4:18 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I think it was Robert A. Heinlein that once said something like " A Committee is a life form with at least six legs,... and no brain".

Pretty much - So if I like Waffles, you are to agree and say yes - no exceptions, you like waffles too, when in secret, you like pancakes.

Now if there any planning and execution involved as a whole, coming to an understanding of what is fact and true, both sides can agree and like waffles as well as pancakes.

 

That being said, what I mentioned the other day is pretty much how things are handled by some, even by cooperate, so things of the sort can result in an action from said entity, hence suing and or other means.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Space Merchant  I am not frightened to mention you by name, why should I be ?

It was more the use of sarcasm not to mention your name, and look it got a reaction :).

I tend to disagree with most things you say, but I laugh too, because you try so hard to come across as someone who is superior. 

I know for myself that i am an individual. It matter not to me if you and others feel the need to add me to some 'make believe' 'collective'. 

I did quite like this bit though :-

A more in-depth definition is: A governing body is a group of people that has the authority to exercise governance over an organization or political entity. The most formal is a government, a body whose sole responsibility and authority is to make binding decisions in a given geopolitical system (such as a state) by establishing laws.

Now here in the UK the ruling Government has an opposition party. I know very little about politics but I do know there are two 'houses', the House of Lords and the House of Commons. So there is debate and questioning.  Also the people of the UK can vote for a different government every 5 years. And, parliament can be dissolved in some cases.  

However the Governing Body of CCJW  rules over millions of people without debate and questioning. Those 8 men that has the authority to exercise governance, and are a body whose sole responsibility and authority is to make binding decisions,  cannot be removed, according to some JWs on this forum. 

They have given themselves the title 'Faithful and Discreet Slave', and they cannot be disfellowshipped by other JWs.  

But you seem to think that is ok, however you do not want to become a JW :).

I totally disagree with most of what you say SM, but. Have a good day. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/16/2020 at 7:05 PM, 4Jah2me said:

hard to come across as someone who is superior. 

He tries to come across as a reasonable person.... which you definitely are not.


I see these OCD reactions all the time from you and view them as a medal......  I even started to react this way as well and realized that mental derangement can be contagious in some ways. ..... LOL  
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/16/2020 at 11:05 AM, 4Jah2me said:

@Space Merchant  I am not frightened to mention you by name, why should I be ?

You've done it before, so it is no surprise you have done it again, the first time you made an accusation, granted you did not mention me, hence I only found out when you stated "The Merchant". You also took said accusation and made it as a truth and I challenged you to prove said accusation and you vanished.

On 5/16/2020 at 11:05 AM, 4Jah2me said:

I tend to disagree with most things you say, but I laugh too, because you try so hard to come across as someone who is superior. 

So speak your peace because the source I am using says otherwise, and I purposely left some things out just to convey them from your response.

I am not superior, but if you want to alluded to your past assumption, I invite you to try. I care about facts and the only thing that irks me more is conveying information in a way to spin the narrative. The last time you attempted this, it backfired, likewise with Mr.C.

On 5/16/2020 at 11:05 AM, 4Jah2me said:

It was more the use of sarcasm not to mention your name, and look it got a reaction :).

You only say this now granted of what has been presented, hence the interaction prior.

On 5/16/2020 at 11:05 AM, 4Jah2me said:

I know for myself that i am an individual. It matter not to me if you and others feel the need to add me to some 'make believe' 'collective'.

But you have adhered to a collective in the past, even though so and so have been wrong or misused information. On the other side of the spectrum, when another person says something that is right, you deem it as something wrong, as is with said collective without coming to an understanding as to what was said, what is the conclusion and so forth.

On 5/16/2020 at 11:05 AM, 4Jah2me said:

A more in-depth definition is: A governing body is a group of people that has the authority to exercise governance over an organization or political entity. The most formal is a government, a body whose sole responsibility and authority is to make binding decisions in a given geopolitical system (such as a state) by establishing laws.

Yes, this is indeed true, even in Bible times this was the case, especially in regard to Apostle Paul, of whom even some Christians seem to have a strong hatred for. A body within any entity will formulate some information in order to maintain some balance. In regards to Christianity, such leaders do so by means application of Bible principles. I'll give you an example, people living together prior to marriage. Clearly, granted we get an example from the Bible, Christians can make the application of how this can be a potential danger, especially when it is known that the flesh is weak and imperfect, coupled with how the world views sex. Because of that, in order to prevent anything bad from happening, a body of Christian bodies and or heads discuss these things, and come to a conclusion on prevention, in doing so, the chosen ruling is then presented to the other body, Church Congregants in form of a sermon and or message, even by means of alternatives regarding newcomers.

That said, they're not yes men, they are not "yes men".

On 5/16/2020 at 11:05 AM, 4Jah2me said:

Now here in the UK the ruling Government has an opposition party. I know very little about politics but I do know there are two 'houses', the House of Lords and the House of Commons. So there is debate and questioning.  Also the people of the UK can vote for a different government every 5 years. And, parliament can be dissolved in some cases.  

These are both separate political entities, hence, has no correlation of what is presented. Those opposition parties are not too far from the left and the right, as is with the Republican and Democratic parties in the US, and or the oppositions in various countries, and clearly they are not a united source in decision making, hence, opposition.

Although you are not into politics, granted, I am sure all of us here are neutral, it would be wise to know the basics.

That being said, voting is a far different story in regard to the focus.

On 5/16/2020 at 11:05 AM, 4Jah2me said:

However the Governing Body of CCJW  rules over millions of people without debate and questioning. Those 8 men that has the authority to exercise governance, and are a body whose sole responsibility and authority is to make binding decisions,  cannot be removed, according to some JWs on this forum. 

They are merely religious heads/leaders, as is the case with all faiths. in Christianity, some ruling is based on Bible Principles, as is how things are within the vicinity of individuals and or groups, and how are things ran in said lands.

You do realize how some ruling are made, correct? There is no debate, but there is discussion, as is the case, with ALL faiths. In these discussions, regarding on the situation, some ruling by means of the area, and or Bible Principles are addressed and how it can be put into effect. Some discussions cannot be removed, which is correct, however, things can be tweaked and or added, especially when there is some sort of change, for instance, the Coronavirus, clearly in this regard, there were things being talked about, which later on, is presented to congregants and or the public, and such discussions is to enable how the people can protect themselves and their families under this pandemic. Clearly such people did not just see COVID-19 and through ideas on the wall and hope it sticks, they discussion first. I purposely left out another bit of my quotation just to throw that on to you.

On 5/16/2020 at 11:05 AM, 4Jah2me said:

They have given themselves the title 'Faithful and Discreet Slave', and they cannot be disfellowshipped by other JWs.  

The term, “faithful and discreet slave”, is used by them to describe the group's body of religious leaders in its role professing teachings. The term also refers to “faithful and wise servant”, by others, individualized and or by other groups, even by modern day Bible Students, as for Unitarian denominations, we use the other rendering. Now a faithful servant, they profess said teachings of pertaining to articles of faith. This term heavily correlated with the interpretation this Parable – “The Faithful Servant” found in the following verses (Matthew 24:45–47, Mark 13:34-37 and Luke 12:35-48) and it is said the fulfilled began on Pentecost 33 C.E. (Acts 2). This role, for pretty much most Christian groups, especially if organized, act as the example found in said Parable, as a faithful servant (or slave), when it comes to arriving at decisions on regarding teachings and or other things, this information, once finalized, is presented. Again, I bring up Apostle Paul regarding Dietary Laws and Circumcision.

The faithful and wise servant is in connection with a small and or little flock of servants who are faithfully carrying out vows within the body of Christ, moreover, the whole body individually and or collectively, giving the food (Spiritual Food/Milk of which the Bible speaks heavily about) by a due season to the household of faith, which are the believers, Christians, who are given said food. A faithful servant, when it comes to teachings, application and discussions being made, under both God and Christ, are deemed responsible whereas the master of these slaves is the Christ, Jesus, hence The Parable. Despite all this, regardless of faith, no man is inspired, well, you have some Trinitarian scholars and Christians out there who claimed this, i.e. stating they can speak to the dead or see them, or entered briefly some form of afterlife (which all connects to Spiritism and not Christianity).

As I had told both Srecko and Witness (who I see here once again), who they themselves claimed that these religious leaders claimed to be “inspired”, as is, on Witness’ part, even ignored a snippet from what she had posted to state said truth, they were in the wrong, granted no claim of being inspired, the irony was I believe that part was purposely cut out, on her part. This is but one of said claims, even outside of anything pertaining to JWs, some claims were based on either the sheer misguidance and or feelings vs. Scripture based mentality, more so, even some chosen ones, refuted them. To add on to that, there was another, who claimed this, but it was more on a Trinitarian vs. Non-Trinitarian turf, something I am heavily in. All this, was before your time, and I can freely quote said discussion here if need be.

Actually, granted we are all sinners, and are imperfect, any man, woman, or child is capable of sinning, as is with repentance, hence, prisoners, some of I, a few others, young and old, partook in writing to, who they themselves wish to seek God. Now, in regard to Excommunication, even they can succumb to such, should they commit a sin. When it comes to religious leaders, even those of whom are a body, they rarely commit to grave sin, so in this sense, even with them, they can sin and be excommunicated from their religious community. Another notion of which you presented, "They cannot be Disfellowshipped by other JWs" how are you so sure when Excommunication in regards to sin can easily be applied should any of them commit grave sin? So far, I haven't seen anything from them, nor, others. I recall Srecko posted something a while back, claiming it to be a truth, but after some research was done, it was not merely just a lie, but someone out there throwing conspiracy.

On 5/16/2020 at 11:05 AM, 4Jah2me said:

But you seem to think that is ok, however you do not want to become a JW :).

Clearly you are not getting what I am conveying, which is evident. But the boat of your exegesis without conclusion will not sail as far.

I study Christology, so I already know what Jehovah's Witnesses are about, as is with what they derive from. I am not referring to the Bible Student Movement or the Great Awakenings.

On 5/16/2020 at 11:05 AM, 4Jah2me said:

I totally disagree with most of what you say SM, but. Have a good day. 

If you disagree, point out what you disagree with, just stating this only shows you really have nothing to say. You said the same thing in another discussion I am having with someone regarding Titus 2:13.

The Parable, in this sense, is correct and the actions of the slave in said parable on conjunction with the master, The Christ. Even today, everyone is able to recognize that.

As for the topic at hand, any group, entity, and or institution, is capable of taking such an action if it violates what they have. More so, even an individual as that right to take such an action, if it is something that does not sit well with them.

Now ANYONE is capable of going about this sort of action, so I suggest you read the 2 examples below carefully:

    • Hello guest!
    • Hello guest!

I also advise learning about copyright and all things pertaining to it:

You may not even know your own UK political system, but you should be able to know the rights of your people, if I know this, it is surprising that you do not know this, granted, by mere assumption of our last interaction, you are the older one. In addition to that, there are those in the UK whom I know, some even more up there when it comes to Bible reading and history, will tell you the same thing.

That being said, a collective who makes decisions for the betterment of something or someone, even a group vs. a collective that consist of yes men and women are VASTLY different.

 

EDIT: Alas, the individual who barks cannot bite - as expected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Arauna said:

He tries to come across as a reasonable person.... which you definitely are not.


I see these OCD reactions all the time from you and view them as a medal......  I even started to react this way as well and realized that mental derangement can be contagious in some ways. ..... LOL  
 

The irony of it all is I care about factual information. Apparently, knowing a lot of information, a person who is weak in a discussion would make this claim. The thing about 4Jah2me and others like this person is the little someone knows the better it is for them to get their point across, but the more someone knows, it results in sheer tomfoolery to what is fact and true. I don't care what is history is with JWs, however, misinformation comes a long way to trick people, hence, something will always need to be said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Space Merchant  You write a lot and basically say nothing. So many people on here do that. 

As for copyright laws, they do not interest me because my point wasn't, do they have the legal right, my point was that Jesus said, recorded at Matthew 5 V 39 

However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him. 

Basically Jesus said 'Just let it go by'.  

However, the GB and their Lawyers are just looking to create diversion, to take people's eyes away from all the Child Sexual Abuse accusations and court cases. 

And regarding the GB calling themselves the 'Faithful and Discreet Slave', you do know that in the past ALL the remaining ones of the Anointed were known as the 'Faithful and Discreet Slave'. So who gave the GB the right to change it ?  Remember that the GB admit to NOT being inspired by God's Holy Spirit.  But some how they WERE 'inspired' to exalt themselves above their Fellow Slaves. Hence showing themselves to be the wicked slave. 

But of course you will not agree with me.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, 4Jah2me said:

@Space Merchant  You write a lot and basically say nothing. So many people on here do that. 

Because you haven't read anything, which is very evident. Even when you cannot even point out a single thing that you deem disagreeable.

2 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

As for copyright laws, they do not interest me because my point wasn't, do they have the legal right, my point was that Jesus said, recorded at Matthew 5 V 39

How so?

2 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him. 

This verse in question correlates with a distorting of information to justify something. When it comes to copyright laws, this can often be the case, outside of taking someone's work.

What Jesus is conveying here, is that if you go back into the history in Bible times, the Jews  had distorted the application and usage of the law. In some sense, a form of resentments and the like that committed into the vengeful behavior.

So, taking the work of others, in this regard, when copyright is involved, in order distort what is true and what is not true, is passing a red line, hence any entity in this regard can take action because such creation is of their doing, especially if said information is distorted. Nowhere in the Bible are Christians harboring vendettas.

8 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Basically Jesus said 'Just let it go by'.  

But you've missed the main focus of what Jesus was conveying here.

10 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

However, the GB and their Lawyers are just looking to create diversion, to take people's eyes away from all the Child Sexual Abuse accusations and court cases. 

Actually no, Faithleaks focus is indeed child abuse, however, if there is other information outside of child abuse, copyrighted information that is taken and distorted, it results in some action being taken. No one is ignorant and or oblivious to child abuse happening in religious institutions, but such people make it seem as if that is the case. If you missed it in the Scripture, immorality is among the sins of this world.

12 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

And regarding the GB calling themselves the 'Faithful and Discreet Slave', you do know that in the past ALL the remaining ones of the Anointed were known as the 'Faithful and Discreet Slave'.

Stating the obvious? If I were to live underneath a rock, then perhaps I would not know this, but I haven't missed the parable regarding the Faithful Servant. I cannot speak for you because I am under the assumption you were not aware of this parable.

Those chosen by God are all over the place and had been around before since that faithful day. Such persons are all over, and God knows who they are, i.e. Solider of God is one of the chosen, although he is dead now, his message is still present in those that walked the same path as he has, for we are in the church as well.

15 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

So who gave the GB the right to change it ?

Regardless of what the term is, it still refers to the Faithful Servant. Does that term really result in you catching feelings? If you are indeed older, it would be wise to act as such.

That being said, granted terms and renderings have been happening for a while now, as long as it does not deviate from what is actually true, there is no problem, especially in the realm of Textual Criticism.

More so, the terminology of what a Faithful Servant actually is, or in this case, a slave, regarding spiritual food remains the same.

19 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Remember that the GB admit to NOT being inspired by God's Holy Spirit.

And your point? You are aware that both the inspired and the not inspired do have the Holy Spirit, those spirit led, and those who are spirit led to foretell prophecy, etc.

Granted after the death of the last apostle, we are left with non-inspired Christians, and such ones who are of God do have the spirit.

This remark from you alone tells me you do not understand that notion and I can, if need be, send you the refutation of Witness when she distorted this claim, as is with her assertion of Assyria, which is haunting.

23 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

But some how they WERE 'inspired' to exalt themselves above their Fellow Slaves.

Spirit led, but not inspired prophets. As for the secondary remark, I suggest you read the Parable, you know, the one you stated you did not agree with, you can scroll up to find the passages and read them.

24 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Hence showing themselves to be the wicked slave. 

You do realize anyone who claim to be inspired long after the death of the last apostle fits that notion? Such ones believe they can speak with the dead, and do other things, speak in tongues, poison drinking, etc.

As stated here, in the past and even by means of the Scripture, no one, not even JWs ever claim inspiration. Because one is not inspired, it does not mean they lack the Holy Spirit, even if they ask God for it.

25 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

But of course you will not agree with me.

Well I cannot agree with you because you show a total lackluster abundance of knowledge of what prophet of  [non] inspiration actually is. The fact you bring this point, shows that you walked right into this one.

That being said, look at your claim again, and go read the Parables, as is I suggest you learn the difference between an inspired prophet and a non-inspired prophet, there is a difference, but what makes them equal is that such a person is of God, they do follow the Christ and are led by the Spirit, pray for it even. I also suggest you really understand Matthew 5:39 and understand what copyright laws are, I linked you 2 articles and a video, better to be educated on this rather than ignore it, in doing so, those who know it can easily correct you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Space Merchant i just have to laugh at all your above comment. You THINK you know so much, but you are spiritually blind. You will keep believing what you believe and i will keep searching for Truth. But i will not generalise and I will not just accept stupidity from those that pretend to know more. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

his remark from you alone tells me you do not understand that notion and I can, if need be, send you the refutation of Witness when she distorted this claim, as is with her assertion of Assyria, which is haunting.

I keep seeing "Witness" pop up in your recent posts.  You missed me, didn't you!  Either that, or I am still an irritating burr in your saddle.  

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

i just have to laugh at all your above comment. You THINK you know so much, but you are spiritually blind.

Then point out as to where I am allegedly spiritual blind, to this I invite you to do as such. I know because I take the time to do the research and study, that is why you being unaware of what a prophet inspired and a prophet not inspired was evident.

21 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

You will keep believing what you believe and i will keep searching for Truth.

I believe in what is true, but your last blunder proves you are far from what is true.

21 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

But i will not generalise and I will not just accept stupidity from those that pretend to know more. 

How am I pretending to know more?

That being said, what should be laughed at is your obvious appeal to motive, if you cannot point out something someone said and simply go out with such banter such as this, it shows who is truly lacking in this regard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Witness said:

I keep seeing "Witness" pop up in your recent posts.  You missed me, didn't you!  Either that, or I am still an irritating burr in your saddle. 

I mentioned you because regarding an inspired prophet, you were the one made this claim regarding inspiration, therefore, me mentioning you is related to that discussion.

That being said, I always mention people, it does not necessarily mean I miss or care for them, I mention people related to the things said, for instance, your claim regarding the Assyrians and your usage of false Bible narratives, should any come to a similar understanding and or outcome, I would gladly mention the person, even link the discussion.

I rather not link said discussion because it would evidently backfire on you, and crack the armor of which 4Jah2me is tooting regarding inspiration.

You were never an irritation, a torn on my side, you are merely another challenger on the CSE platform, nothing more. If you recall, I even told you, do not stumble and scrap your knee caps, which you have done time and time again, as is with your accusations torwards me, which remain unproven.

That being said, the last discussion I had with you, you pull a fuse regarding the domain of political registration whereas when correct, you redacted said information and stated "you do not wish to know these things" when you prior stated "such information is the truth".

Other than that, as for the topic in question, an entity of any kind and or group, whatever, are capable of doing such, you of all people should know because we did discussion something related to copyright in the past, to which a whom you deem a support, was actually against you in this regard.

By the way, I found it, not only a call back to you, but something @4Jah2me  can learn from:

The difference between a Prophet Inspired and a Prophet Not Inspired.

On 11/14/2018 at 1:09 PM, Space Merchant said:

There is a clear distinction between a prophet who is inspired and a normal prophet. The most obvious different is a prophet who proclaims and ministers, one who is inspired, on the other side of the spectrum, a prophet who proclaims and ministers, who is spirit led. For Prophets such as Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul, even Agabus were all inspired and infallible. Christians today, who are prophets, of any kind are not inspired and are not infallible and such makes up the majority of Non-Trinitarians today, even to our counterparts who are the Jehovah's Witnesses. Us Christians are Spirit led prophets, the ability to spread the gospel truth and the truth about the Messianic Age, for this is something of which he both have in common.

An inspired prophet possesses the miraculous gift of prophesy, inspired and infallible utterance and predictions, as proof they are having the Holy Spirit, of which we can see with Elijah and Elisha - you also already mentioned Moses, who is an inspired Prophet who does indeed have the miraculous gifts. For this is 1 of 9 miraculous gifts that is of the spirit, manifestations of the spirit and is indeed infallible as can be read in the Scriptures itself 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, Luke 4:18 and Romans 3:1, 2 for example.

A normal, Spirit led Prophet who is clearly not inspired and not infallible have the gifts of the spirit regarding prophesying. It is regarded as dominant, the ability for one to profess in spreading the good news gospel of the Kingdom and the Messianic Age of the coming Christ, such of which gives evidence of the holy spirit's role as seen in Scripture, Matthew 24:14, Luke 4:18, Acts 2:18, 19 and Romans 12:6-8. Such ones with spiritual gifts have that is of what is cultivated, or cultivated gifts as some would say.

An inspired prophet's message is inspired, like that of a breathe of God himself, therefore infallible. God is the primary source of the message and the author of the message granted the Word came from him. The written work itself in it's original form is both sacred and inspired. As the verses,

  • 2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

For prophets inspired by God have verbal communication through even that of angels, visions that puts forth God's message to those who hear it, they have dreams or night visions that is seen by them even in their sleep, and can convey a message even by means of a trance, other times through songs of praise that contribute to a prophet receiving communication that is divine (Exodus 9:1; Amos 3:3-8; Jonah 3:1, 2)

A prophet that isn't inspired and is not infallible in the message knows isn't the author of anything other than the Bible, they recognize that what they produce is of their own design but remain faithful to the Scriptures in of itself, this includes ALL Bible Translations because none of the translators or transliteratiors are not inspired, the very reason that most, if not all, tend to make revisions after revisions, example like you not knowing (but have used already) what the TR 1245 is and unaware that all translations, even that of JWs, have been revised, thus omitting anything related to the TR 1245, hence my clear view and adherence on Textual Criticism.

A not inspired prophet, or in this case, a normal prophet is encouraged by God's Word, if not, even moved by it. They show and express a genuine love for God and are moved to take action, just as those of old and our church fathers have. They are guided by God by means of influence and thinking, and our speech as with actions by means of the power of His Spirit and His Word, as can be evident by Matthew 13:11, 24:14.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I quote you @Space Merchant  " Christians today, who are prophets, of any kind are not inspired and are not infallible and such makes up the majority of Non-Trinitarians today, even to our counterparts who are the Jehovah's Witnesses. Us Christians are Spirit led prophets, the ability to spread the gospel truth and the truth about the Messianic Age, for this is something of which he both have in common. "

 

Well here are the 'uninspired prophets' of the Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses :-

 

Jehovah's Witnesses[
    Hello guest!
]

Main article: 
    Hello guest!

    Hello guest!
, the first president of the 
    Hello guest!
, calculated 1874 as the year of Christ's 
    Hello guest!
, and taught that Christ was invisibly present and ruling from the heavens since that year.
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
 Russell proclaimed Christ's invisible return in 1874,
    Hello guest!
 the resurrection of the saints in 1875,
    Hello guest!
 and predicted the end of the "harvest" and the 
    Hello guest!
 of the 
    Hello guest!
 to heaven for 1878,
    Hello guest!
 and the final end of "the day of wrath" in 1914.
    Hello guest!
 1874 was considered the end of 6,000 years of human history and the beginning of judgment by Christ.
    Hello guest!
 A 1917 Watch Tower Society publication predicted that in 1918, God would begin to destroy churches and millions of their members.
    Hello guest!

    Hello guest!
, who succeeded Russell as president of the Watch Tower Society, predicted that the 
    Hello guest!
 would begin in 1925, and that biblical figures such as 
    Hello guest!
, 
    Hello guest!
, 
    Hello guest!
 and 
    Hello guest!
 would be resurrected as "princes". The Watch Tower Society bought property and built a house, 
    Hello guest!
, in California for their return.
    Hello guest!

From 1966, statements in Jehovah's Witness publications raised strong expectations that Armageddon could arrive in 1975. In 1974 Witnesses were commended for selling their homes and property to "finish out the rest of their days in this old system" in full-time preaching.

    Hello guest!
 In 1976 The Watchtower advised those who had been "disappointed" by unfulfilled expectations for 1975 to adjust their viewpoint because that understanding was "based on wrong premises".
    Hello guest!
 Four years later, the Watch Tower Society admitted its responsibility in building up hope regarding 1975.
    Hello guest!

Do you think they were guided by God's Holy Spirit ?

Deuteronomy 18 v 20 through 22.

20  “‘If any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that I did not command him to speak or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die.

    Hello guest!
 21  However, you may say in your heart: “How will we know that Jehovah has not spoken the word?” 22  When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’

And do you think the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses are now guided by God's Holy Spirit ?

Matthew 24 v 24 

 For false Christs and false prophets

    Hello guest!
 will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead,
    Hello guest!
 if possible, even the chosen ones

Anyone that understands God's written word can preach the 'Good news of God's Kingdom' but to put a date or time on it is 'going beyond the things written'. And if a person should be of the Anointed heavenly calling then i would think by doing so they would be sinning against the spirit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I quote you @Space Merchant  " Christians today, who are prophets, of any kind are not inspired and are not infallible and such makes up the majority of Non-Trinitarians today, even to our counterparts who are the Jehovah's Witnesses. Us Christians are Spirit led prophets, the ability to spread the gospel truth and the truth about the Messianic Age, for this is something of which he both have in common. "

Exactly, Christians today are not inspired, they cannot profess fulfillment, they cannot do the things that Jonah, Agabus, and the others can do.

Hence the following:

A normal, Spirit led Prophet who is clearly not inspired and not infallible have the gifts of the spirit regarding prophesying. It is regarded as dominant, the ability for one to profess in spreading the good news gospel of the Kingdom and the Messianic Age of the coming Christ, such of which gives evidence of the holy spirit's role as seen in Scripture, Matthew 24:14, Luke 4:18, Acts 2:18, 19 and Romans 12:6-8. Such ones with spiritual gifts have that is of what is cultivated, or cultivated gifts as some would say.

Christians, what do they do exactly? They...

  • Preach the Good New Gospel and of God's Kingdom are Spirit Led, Spirit Led as is wanting to receive and or is given the Holy Spirit. They also preach the coming of the Christ (Messianic Age), with Scriptural evidence as noted above, therefore, your last statement is in err, 4Jah2me.

Which by a legitimate definition means: In Abrahamic religions, the Messianic Age is the future period of time on Earth in which the messiah will reign and bring universal peace and brotherhood, without any evil. Many believe that there will be such an age; some refer to it as the consummate "kingdom of God" or the "world to come".

  • No Anti-Trinitarian/Non-Trinitarian has ever, called claim to being inspired. That is both undeniable and an absolute fact. The only people who are to make such a claim are among the mainstream Christians, that make absurd claims of being able to see God and or Satan, as well as the dead, let alone being able to speak to spirits, hence my previous remark to Witness about New Age practices.

Granted it was stated that such abilities of prophets of old can do, an Inspired Prophet, it has died off with the apostle, hence no one, not even the students, onward to this day can do this, and or make claim to being an inspired prophet.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

    Hello guest!
, the first president of the 
    Hello guest!
, calculated 1874 as the year of Christ's 
    Hello guest!
, and taught that Christ was invisibly present and ruling from the heavens since that year.
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
 Russell proclaimed Christ's invisible return in 1874,
    Hello guest!
 the resurrection of the saints in 1875,
    Hello guest!
 and predicted the end of the "harvest" and the 
    Hello guest!
 of the 
    Hello guest!
 to heaven for 1878,
    Hello guest!
 and the final end of "the day of wrath" in 1914.
    Hello guest!
 1874 was considered the end of 6,000 years of human history and the beginning of judgment by Christ.
    Hello guest!
 A 1917 Watch Tower Society publication predicted that in 1918, God would begin to destroy churches and millions of their members.
    Hello guest!

The latter as been debunked a couple times, even by former members, as well as current Bible Students, as is with a couple sources that studied all about the pastor for 55+ years. It was also mentioned that other than the Bible Students, there were other groups that also came to that conclusion and also believed in the second coming of the Christ whereas the Christ was to be made a King. The calculations in question revolves around the very thing, at the time, many Christian deemed popular, the study of pyramid (Pyramidology)

  • Note: It is said that many intelligent, as well as knowledgeable people around the world were convinced that the Great Pyramid had been divinely constructed to reveal Biblical truths.

The focus was that of the Great Pyramid of Giza. That said, the pastor was professing this based on a Biblical interpretation, which is in connection to the Gentile Times, and even prior there was a few statements by said pastor, according to those that had studied him, such information can be searched on this forum, for it was disccused.

That being said, during that year, there has been other things going on other than a dreadful war, the spiked corruption, etc. One of the reasons why the other groups, existing and no longer existing sided with the notion of the Gentile Times. As for the last bit, you left out the schism, which resulted in what was stated in the book being taken out of context and the number of groups that came about that day, moreover, if you continue to read pass that point, you can see as to where the point is coming from, and it is more in connection with the conveying of Ezekiel as is the Book of Revelations, hence why, by some, it is an important book, but to others, they take a small sample and take said sample out of context. There is no question, that Babylon the Great will be destroyed.

That being said, even prior to the study of Pyramids, no claim of inspiration was ever made, if I am not mistaken, among the people who studied the pastor, R. Lite (from what I can dig up granted his sources are very old and being inactive), stated the same thing. R. Lite is also a Bible Student, however, at times he seems to be a bit radical, most likely eldery state is getting to him.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

    Hello guest!
, who succeeded Russell as president of the Watch Tower Society, predicted that the 
    Hello guest!
 would begin in 1925, and that biblical figures such as 
    Hello guest!
, 
    Hello guest!
, 
    Hello guest!
 and 
    Hello guest!
 would be resurrected as "princes". The Watch Tower Society bought property and built a house, 
    Hello guest!
, in California for their return.
    Hello guest!

Granted this was talked about people, to which I even made a point, there is no statement on this pastor's part and or the group, even after the aftermath, mentioned that God's Day would arrive on 1925, however, if one does the research accordingly, we see the notion of the Jubilee cycle, not bringing this forward results in confusion, which is understandable, but looking into it you can see this. Granted with what was taking place during that time, this pastor vs. others who were unseating, it is no surprise people would come to said conclusion. As for the property itself, if I am not mistaken I remember this was mentioned before. A San Diego man who was unable to leave the state or something of the sort built the house, and said house was allegedly supposed to be used for Christian activities. Other than that, something as uninformed doesn't negate a belief and or faith, as which was mentioned before. No different from the other things uninformed.

That being said, this one, as is with the last one, never claimed to be inspired and or is spoken of as being inspired.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

From 1966, statements in Jehovah's Witness publications raised strong expectations that Armageddon could arrive in 1975.

That has also been debunked and proven otherwise - misinformation. The 1975 year as been used time and time again to prompt a claim of inspiration, however, by doing the research, one can see the truth of the matter.

That being said, there was no strong expectation of God's Day being that year, moreover, core of it was focused on Thousand Year Reign of Christ and the following after of 6,000 years of human history. So in short, speculative articles, however, no definite Statement of the sort.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

In 1974 Witnesses were commended for selling their homes and property to "finish out the rest of their days in this old system" in full-time preaching.

    Hello guest!
 In 1976 The Watchtower advised those who had been "disappointed" by unfulfilled expectations for 1975 to adjust their viewpoint because that understanding was "based on wrong premises".
    Hello guest!
 Four years later, the Watch Tower Society admitted its responsibility in building up hope regarding 1975.
    Hello guest!

The truth of the matter, to be brief, that people mistook the statement, not understanding it properly, hence, it result in people among the faith community drawing their own conclusions.

The statement in blue is misleading, because if one were to lookup the article in question, it's focus was in living out your days in the wicked world in peace. To be more specific, no command was given, it simply stated that people had sold their homes to live simpler lives and profess the remaining days of their lives preaching. What is contradicting is, if they sold their homes because of God's Day, who the mention of preaching, if prior to God's Day all good gospel preaching must cease? To add on to that, said article mentioned a very specific verse - 1 John 2:17, and it continues to give points on said "simple life" and "preaching".

Actually, the second part is also a bit misleading. Granted no statement was ever given, the latter was coming with their own conclusions and assumptions, and in turn, spread said information among it's community. Now, the statement wasn't based on 1975, for it was more based on people coming to their own conclusions of something, hence the question mentioned prior in said statement even says "If a person has regulated his life with the view that the end would come on a certain date, what should he now do?" Moreover, that book goes into further detail in the next few paragraphs. The book in question is A Solid Basis for Confidence.

That is for the last bit, again, due to what is heard, people came to their own conclusions, and assumed, for if the end was to occur, they would not be preaching at all prior.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Do you think they were guided by God's Holy Spirit ?

If they ask for God's Spirit. Regardless, someone who HAS the Holy Spirit is still NOT INSPIRED, hence biblical evidence to such point out in my refute quotation to Witness a while back.

Therefore, if there was never a claim of being an inspired prophet, the previous remark isn't in your favor. Later followers of the Christ were not inspired, but if given and or asked for the spirit, they do the work, do they not?

Likewise, everyone here, including me, we are not inspired prophets, but, because of the spirit, it allows us to preach the gospel truths, granted I never seen some of you do it, granted you only have one focus.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Deuteronomy 18 v 20 through 22.

20  “‘If any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that I did not command him to speak or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die.

    Hello guest!
 21  However, you may say in your heart: “How will we know that Jehovah has not spoken the word?” 22  When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’

So what point are you attempting with this verse?

Also just putting this below regarding a prophet inspried, so you betetr understand the differences:

An inspired prophet's message is inspired, like that of a breathe of God himself, therefore infallible. God is the primary source of the message and the author of the message granted the Word came from him. The written work itself in it's original form is both sacred and inspired. As the verses,

  • 2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

For prophets inspired by God have verbal communication through even that of angels, visions that puts forth God's message to those who hear it, they have dreams or night visions that is seen by them even in their sleep, and can convey a message even by means of a trance, other times through songs of praise that contribute to a prophet receiving communication that is divine (Exodus 9:1; Amos 3:3-8; Jonah 3:1, 2)

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And do you think the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses are now guided by God's Holy Spirit ?

Which goes back the last question, which I've stated:

If they ask for God's Spirit. Regardless, someone who HAS the Holy Spirit is still NOT INSPIRED,

That being said, both you and I are not even inspired, yet the both of use quote Scripture and explain it, do we not? Therefore, my statement on the matter is factual and true with biblical support to back it up, therefore, when I ask you to prove otherwise, you said nothing, moreover, you did not even look into the verses and passages, found in Scripture, the supports my point.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Matthew 24 v 24 

 For false Christs and false prophets

    Hello guest!
 will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead,
    Hello guest!
 if possible, even the chosen ones

The thing is, do you understand what a false prophet is? It takes discernment to understand what a false prophet is.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Anyone that understands God's written word can preach the 'Good news of God's Kingdom' but to put a date or time on it is 'going beyond the things written'.

Hence that is the notion of a prophet who is not inspired, but is indeed a modern day Christian. Christians can be at fault, and can make mistakes, to quickly brand someone as false without proper discernment shows err.

As for the other bit, if you carefully do the research, you would come to the conclusion that most people who is not a hardcore Trinitarian, would come to. Even as much, even on Muslims, can even point this out, as seen in some debates, especially concerning the history of the Bible. The thing is, coming to an understanding of things, not coming to conclusions, and be quick to point fingers.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And if a person should be of the Anointed heavenly calling then i would think by doing so they would be sinning against the spirit. 

How so if the invitation is of God? Only God can choose an individual, to be among the fold with his Son, those of Zion. Again, this is some dark water territory, regarding ANY chosen by God, from ANYWHERE, Christians are to be very, very careful, hence my past statement of judgement in front of the white throne. This is why one must be incredibly neutral, if someone is deemed chosen, for one might end up paying for it in the end.

That being said, as I stated before, the late Solider of God was among the chosen, despite who he is and what he does, he has done good things, he has done mistakes, but to belittle him of this type of position and or otherwise, as a man, is a mistake. Hid dealing are with the one who has chosen him, therefore, his dealings is not with us men. Likewise, this goes for ALL chosen ones.

That being said, you are a bit confused on what sinning against the spirit actually entails, I suggest you read into what that means.

But most of the things you linked do HAVE sources, and said information was talked about time and time again on this forum for years now.

Also your claims from before, you can at least attempt to prove them instead of shying away from them, I see you laughed, but cannot bite, as usual.

EDIT: 

Well that escalated quickly, you HELPED me, your sources had links to a number of Articles - thank you for helping me point it out for you.

Tom Cruise GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Space Merchant Like I've said before you will always disagree with me just for the sake of trying to look superior. I hope it brings you joy. It certainly gives me something to laugh at. 

And if I write that the CCJW / GB say that a person 'must be a baptised Jehovah's Witness to gain salvation', will you disagree with this too ? 

And are you saying that any Non Trinitarian Christian can gain salvation no matter what religion they are, or even if they have no denomination ?  Now that would be in disagreement with the JW GB.

Quote "Also your claims from before, you can at least attempt to prove them instead of shying away from them, I see you laughed, but cannot bite, as usual "

When I show you truth you are too blind to see it so there is no point. You only believe what you want to believe, and you THINK you know better than me or others.

I was right about the Governing Body exalting themselves above their 'Fellow Slaves' as in the parable. But you won't agree with me. For that GB to suddenly decide only they, those 8 men, are the Faithful slave and for them to assume the others of the Anointed are NOT the Faithful Salve, shows the GB up to be the wicked slave. 

However like I say, you wish to convey yourself as knowing more than others, so there is little point in talking directly to you. In fact I tend now to use my comments to communicate with others even if I do link your name to them. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

@Space Merchant Like I've said before you will always disagree with me just for the sake of trying to look superior.

The irony of it all, it was your sources that let me to the articles. If you haven't noticed, anything related to Wikipedia, at the very bottom there are citations and notes, when you search for said citations, it takes you to a number of books and or articles.

Therefore, I was agreeing with the cited sources of which you proved, it was not by my own hand. If it was not for your Wikipedia quotes, I may not have been able to find more information, such as The Jubilee Year.

I don't appear to be superior, not at all. That is why it can be said, when I told you to prove it, you failed a number of times. Someone doing research and finding the truth of the matter does not mean they are superior, it means they put in the time to do the work.

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And if I write that the CCJW / GB say that a person 'must be a baptised Jehovah's Witness to gain salvation', will you disagree with this too ? 

This was discussed at least 4-5 times on prior, with JWInsider, Anna, and a number of others, including me weighing in on this. All of us, have pointed out what the Jehovah's Witnesses stated, moreover, what the meaning of Salvation is. Therefore, all that would need to be done is link the thread in question to prove said point.

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And are you saying that any Non Trinitarian Christian can gain salvation no matter what religion they are, or even if they have no denomination ?

No. If I recall, I haven't uttered salvation at all on this thread in particular. I have elsewhere, and also stressed elsewhere that Salvation can be lost and or gained (regained).

Clearly, you do not understand what was conveyed. Of course, Non-Trinitarians understand what it means to gain/lose salvation, you are responding to one - @Space MerchantOther denominations, however, who most are not Anti-Trinitarian, state otherwise, for if one is saved, they can never lose salvation, which, if we go to the Bible, does not make sense, not to mention the verse we see in Jude.

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Now that would be in disagreement with the JW GB.

How so?

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Quote "Also your claims from before, you can at least attempt to prove them instead of shying away from them, I see you laughed, but cannot bite, as usual "

Made made claims which you cannot be proven, I even invited you to prove them, which you had failed. Regarding a Prophet Inspired and Not Inspired, the Bible itself offers more proven than you assuming. You even alluded to my point, which thus makes it correct.

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

When I show you truth you are too blind to see it so there is no point.

If you go back to your comment, you made 2 claims regarding me, not the JWs. I told you to prove it, you haven't, this was the same end result as our first discussion.

If the Bible speaks truth on what an inspired/no inspired prophet is, why do you say it is wrong? If I agree with the Bible, and you disagree, where does that leave you?

I agree with the following verses, therefore, because of this, and your claim, it shows you are in error [Matthew 24:14, Luke 4:18, Acts 2:18, 19 and Romans 12:6-8] - you have a Bible, do you not? Read these verses, or simply read my refute response to Witness, of which I quoted a few comments up.

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I was right about the Governing Body exalting themselves above their 'Fellow Slaves' as in the parable.

Do you even understand the Parable of the Faithful Servant? As anyone can see, you've added your own assertions, every notion I pointed out in regards to this Parable is correct, especially when it comes to the flock and spiritual food.

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

But you won't agree with me.

It is not that I agree with you, it is the fact you are going upon your own understanding, and not actually looking into Scripture to convey the truth of the matter. If I had not mentioned the Parable, you'd include something vastly different regarding what A Faithful Servant is.

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

For that GB to suddenly decide only they, those 8 men, are the Faithful slave and for them to assume the others of the Anointed are NOT the Faithful Salve, shows the GB up to be the wicked slave. 

I suggest you re-read the below. The Bible holds more truth vs. mere assumption and or understanding.

Again, MAN cannot assume such. When it comes to Chosen Ones, those that are chosen is between God and that individual. To make such a statement there is hell to pay in regards to the White Throne. Reasons why a majority of us Christians are neutral when it comes to this is for not wanting to beget a costly mistake.

That being said, be it that they are or not, if I recall, among their community, it is said they have a number of chosen ones among them, it is not soley 8 religous leaders.

On 5/19/2020 at 11:25 AM, Space Merchant said:

The term, “faithful and discreet slave”, is used by them to describe the group's body of religious leaders in its role professing teachings. The term also refers to “faithful and wise servant”, by others, individualized and or by other groups, even by modern day Bible Students, as for Unitarian denominations, we use the other rendering. Now a faithful servant, they profess said teachings of pertaining to articles of faith. This term heavily correlated with the interpretation this Parable – “The Faithful Servant” found in the following verses (Matthew 24:45–47, Mark 13:34-37 and Luke 12:35-48) and it is said the fulfilled began on Pentecost 33 C.E. (Acts 2). This role, for pretty much most Christian groups, especially if organized, act as the example found in said Parable, as a faithful servant (or slave), when it comes to arriving at decisions on regarding teachings and or other things, this information, once finalized, is presented. Again, I bring up Apostle Paul regarding Dietary Laws and Circumcision.

The faithful and wise servant is in connection with a small and or little flock of servants who are faithfully carrying out vows within the body of Christ, moreover, the whole body individually and or collectively, giving the food (Spiritual Food/Milk of which the Bible speaks heavily about) by a due season to the household of faith, which are the believers, Christians, who are given said food. A faithful servant, when it comes to teachings, application and discussions being made, under both God and Christ, are deemed responsible whereas the master of these slaves is the Christ, Jesus, hence The Parable. Despite all this, regardless of faith, no man is inspired, well, you have some Trinitarian scholars and Christians out there who claimed this, i.e. stating they can speak to the dead or see them, or entered briefly some form of afterlife (which all connects to Spiritism and not Christianity).

 

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

However like I say, you wish to convey yourself as knowing more than others, so there is little point in talking directly to you.

Because I do research it irks you this much? If you did not know something and I pointed it out, you consider this being all knowing and superior? A mere rendering buttered your biscuit in this regard and if I point that out being knowledgeable is deemed a threat to you? You are beginning to remind me of Srecko now with the Donkey, Abraham and Glasgow discussions of the past (and it is for good reason I bring up reminders of old discussions, should specific points be made again).

Also, if I recall, you were the one who brought all this put, as I tell many here, a do a response to a response, nothing more.

That being said, you ignore what is true to fit the information you wish to convey, likewise with the Bible, you have little to no understanding of what a prophet inspired is and or not inspired, thinking that someone who is not inspired cannot grasp the holy spirit, when the Bible says otherwise. You cannot fool anyone, and it is no surprise you walked right into it by making these claims, not to mention you were the one to link the Wikipedia, somehow you do not agree with the very source which you linked. Perhaps next time remember this: If you are going to use a wiki, make sure the citations are NOT against your claims, otherwise, it can only prove to engineer your own err at the end of the day, i.e. said claim of yours stated that they said Armageddon would happen on 1975, but there was no claim made by them to suggest such, anywhere.

Other than that, regardless, as for the topic at hand, although there is some level ground, however when this go beyong that, it is their information, they can do as they please with said information, for it originated from them and is provided by them, produced by them and shared by them, in terms of law and the like, it is for them, even outside of that, this goes for ALL entities, institutions, and the like. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 @Space Merchant

i.e. said claim of yours stated that they said Armageddon would happen on 1975, but there was no claim made by them to suggest such, anywhere.

 

could see was a short time ahead in which to finish the work assigned to them." w68_1975.JPG

Watchtower 1968 Aug 15 p.494 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@4Jah2me And So I saith to thee, Give me a direct """"quote""""" of them stating Armageddon will happen in 1975?

Example: Frosted Flakes, random I know, but proving a point. The slogan of this cereal brand is "They're Great!" and their mascot is an anthropomorphic humanoid tiger named Tony. Who said the quote directly as stated? Tony the Tiger.

Second Life Marketplace - They're Great! - Tony The Tiger Gesture

Now, all you did was post a picture of an article (haven't you read it), of which was posted several times over on this forum, and debunked. For further detail, to make a claim that they said 1975 was indeed God's Day was to occur, I do not see what is stopping you from quoting said claim, in this case, the name of the person who said it and where it took place.

I got another example for you "Beauty is in the Eyes of the Beholder" who said it? Margaret Wolfe Hungerford.

Other than that, the way I see it, a strong sermon often tends to make people speculate, and jump to conclusions, as noted last time. I think someone stated something before as projected, but the claims out there that say otherwise does not hold enough water.

I will note your response because I do not want another Glasgow (Srecko knows, and he was sorry for it) to happen:

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

@Space Merchant

i.e. said claim of yours stated that they said Armageddon would happen on 1975, but there was no claim made by them to suggest such, anywhere.

 

could see was a short time ahead in which to finish the work assigned to them." w68_1975.JPG

Watchtower 1968 Aug 15 p.494 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?

 

That being said, relating to the topic at hand, as we speak, if something of someone is in use, especially without permission and or improperly, they have the right to take action.

 

EDIT: Thank you for proving me point, again. Now - Your claim would be a strong one, if they had indeed made the claim. The only thing in that article of yours that I am somewhat not easy with is the King James Version of the Bible, nothing more.

As I pointed out, before your arrival, we had spoken about this before, that is why I mentioned Rook, JWInsider and the others, regarding the subject, this is one of several threads for 1975.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Watchtower sued the owner of “avoidjw.org” and won. In turn, that owner removed the Watchtower material from an American website and server, transferred the archive to faith-leaks and thought they could hide their misleading practices from international law, since faith-leaks is from the UK. There is a whistleblower misconception to think, copyright material is part of it, it’s not.

Category:AvoidJW.org Archive

These documents once lived on the website AvoidJW.org, but when the founder, Jason Wynne, faced legal pressure from 

    Hello guest!
 to remove them, he sent them all to FaithLeaks. They have since been published under this category.

 

For witnesses, stay informed! In case anyone is interested, the owner of FaithLeaks is an ex member of the Latter Day Saints. The Latter Day saints sued Faithleaks for doing the same thing to them. Now his website only shows Watchtower material, go figure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@César Chávez Despite such, the origin of material is of the original source regardless, as mentioned before, such is the same with all institutions. We should not also forget of how the law works too, something of which people got confused with and assumed things with other things, for instance the whole situation about ARC concerning the JW faith.

That being said, us Unitarians know of the owner as well, despite the fact all of us, regardless of faith, suffer from the actions of a few men and women with brazen ideas, this is to be expected. But  at the end of the day, material under such notion always belongs to whom it originated from, especially if said material was used in a way that differs from origin and or the like.

As I mention to Rook, outside of the religious space and into cooperate, it is FAR worse if the institution roles were in reverse, in a sense, such would kill you without you being deceased, but still alive, or in an understandable form - cancel culture in a permanent form.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/1/2020 at 4:49 AM, Isabella said:

copyrights

I wonder this:

If all WT publications from past to the future is/are intellectual and material possession of The Company ... and each person who was, is and will be JW member need to have "Bible Study" BASED on WT publications, and to continue in this way ... WHO is owner of Member's  Faith and Beliefs .... BECAUSE he/she came to this Unique Faith and Beliefs ONLY because of studying and accepting Published Materials ??!! :))) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I wonder this:

If all WT publications from past to the future is/are intellectual and material possession of The Company ... and each person who was, is and will be JW member need to have "Bible Study" BASED on WT publications, and to continue in this way ... WHO is owner of Member's  Faith and Beliefs .... BECAUSE he/she came to this Unique Faith and Beliefs ONLY because of studying and accepting Published Materials ??!! :))) 

It's the material. The material is free to use, however, in some instances, if there is other material that is not public and or made private and soon to be public, then you have a problem, mainly if said information is sensitive and can jeopardize not just the entity, but specific persons, I remember giving you a real in life bloody example that took place in one country.

Said published material is indeed free of charge and use, so that statement of yours is a bit off. The article points out something a tad bit different, Srecko.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would seem as though the church mouse can no longer speak of said claim - which is understandable because the engineering of their own demise was the root of said downfall, thus backfiring. Long story short - The image/article provided in the last response does not, and has never stated 1975 was indeed God's Day. The irony of it all is elsewhere the notion of "deceit and lies" was professed, but here we see a different story.

To quote myself: A bit hypocritical, don’t you think?

That being said, as for the topic, the way I see it is that

I want to note the following from some of the articles I've read thus far: The Witnesses say they created 74 “original motion pictures” and have copyrights on them. But those movies were obtained and uploaded to FaithLeaks.org, a place where whistleblowers can anonymously submit material. The Truth and Transparency Foundation — run by the same people — then took that material, researched it, and published an investigative piece on the matter.

Somewhat related, but I also like to point out that: Most institutions, even religious groups, do not want specific meetings recorded for various reasons, i.e. said meeting information will go forth to another group and into another language, etc, however, would later release said meeting and or produce the same meeting elsewhere in another language. This is not too far off from The Media’s Embargo regarding books, video games and or video game companies (I'm looking at you - Nintendo), movies, comics, and more. For at times breaking said Embargoes there are consequences, likewise if anyone is playing around with copyrighted material.

If the material, in this case being media such as videos are registered copyright and or some office, then the Jehovah’s Witnesses can sue the uploader, in this regard, being the website and or owner(s) of Faith Leaks, and they can sue for damages on a statutory level, meaning, should they see fit, video(s) individually (each one), not to mention the fees for lawyers in some degree. Now, if they don’t have this material registered, then it would be limited to the latter option, in addition, they would they have to commit to having proof, which if this was the alternative, it would be very difficult on the Jehovah's Witnesses' end.

Regardless if it is material from the Jehovah's Witnesses, a YouTuber, Musician, Artist, etc. If the material is also close to the original in all sense, even if used in commentary, criticism, parody, etc. You’d have to fall into the fair use category to evade such things, but not all the time an opportunity is an easy one to gain, and one should expect what is to happen.

That being said, as a point I’ve made, if the material is indeed copyrighted, then posting it entirely, 100% is a breach and to some extent, some might see it as piracy. So in this situation, the Jehovah’s Witnesses have a point in relation to this situation.

Not knowing the basics of copyright would have people jump to conclusions, as is seen here, so much to the point, there are those who are either religious and or not religious making this point.

That being said, if these are copyrighted materials, then posting them in their entirety is piracy in some degree. So the JWs have a point in that case. Moreover, some are stating this to be stolen content, which is another can of worms of it’s own, hence to profess fair use regarding stolen content only spells T.R.O.U.B.L.E. you stole.

Under US Law, from what I have been looking into regarding copyright, is that whether the non-copyright-holder makes money off the copyrighted material, in addition to that, the legitimate holder of said copyright has 100% control and exclusive rights to said material, and they themselves can decide and determine how the material is used. Therefore, the latter really does not have the ball in their court regarding the legality of things, likewise to that of a Comic Book Junkie who made an attempt to record, perhaps the Batman movie using nothing more than his or her cellphone within, in turn, to produce it has their own. Or for our parting friend, JTR aka The Rook, if he created a magnificent movie and I was the cellphone guy and produce said material elsewhere somewhat as my own, I'd have hell to pay for my actions and the consequences of my actions would follow suit.

Although I am still looking into copyright things myself, I do not see what is stopping you, and or said collective. Well, said collective failed regarding Trust Funds and the like, Non-Profits, tax-exempt under section 501(c)s, Benefactors, Copyright, Concordances, NGOs/UNs registrations and resolutions, tenets, and the list continues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll just repeat this as Space Merchant is going on so much. 

Matthew 5 v 38 through 42

 “You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ 39  However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him. 40  And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment;

    Hello guest!
 41  and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42  Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you.

The GB and their Lawyers do not understand the spiritual things from God. 

It also seems they are ashamed of their own videos. 

And it seems that a lot of people here do not understand the spiritual things from God or Bible principles. 

But of course the GB need the money now, donations are probably going down and court case costs are probably going up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@4Jah2me That just shows you do not know US and or international law regarding copyright (I also like to point out that even the non religious who pinned this story know more as well regarding said law). If the material is actually for them, and they can distribute as they see fit, why say otherwise? Therefore using this verse in regards to this shows you have no idea what you are going about, therefore using the verse and or passage out of context. We can also see you are in motion with your own notion and feelings vs. actual fact.

That being said, I am still awaiting for the evidence from your last statement which you claim. Mind you, elsewhere you spoke of deceit and lies, I would quote you too if need be. So if the later claim was indeed a lie, how speak of it as a truth? To use that verse in this regard, was not your deed a wicked one?

Therefore, my statement concerning you is fact and true:

On 5/15/2020 at 11:42 AM, Space Merchant said:

you shy'd away.

You can hate them til death, but to go about something that is false is, to quote you, deceitful and a lie. At least be honest about something, hence, if the copyright laws said, as seen in this situation, why speak otherwise? The only way one can actually put the faith group to the test if they haven't registered said material, in this case, that would be a win for faith leaks because for the JWs it would be difficult, but the reality is, the content is registered.

Second, most of us know Bible Principles very well, but, not many not the context of said Bible Principles and or Biblical fact, often times, the collective would use THEIR exegesis and emotions in the face of something factual in Scripture, which shows the clear separation between the True and the Mainstream.

It is not the need of money regarding faith leaks, as of how everyone is seeing it, it is regarding material produced by them that is taken, and, some even attested to the idea that said material was stolen.

 

But yes, no different from an Embargo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

It also seems they are ashamed of their own videos. 

??   

5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Do not understand the spiritual things of God

Your personal opinion only......... and while you are allowed to have a personal opinion , it does not mean it is absolutely correct.  Satan and his demons are also allowed by God to have a personal opinion..... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a simple reason for governments to have made copyright laws. They don’t allow the theft or false production of someone else's material.

America:

The copyright law of the United States grants monopoly protection for "original works of authorship". With the stated purpose to promote art and culture, copyright law assigns a set of exclusive rights to authors: to make and sell copies of their works, to create derivative works, and to perform or display their works publicly.

What about “international law?

    Hello guest!

Either way, does anyone see the name, Watchtower on any of these laws rather than in any of each respective government? I believe any JW scholar will know the difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/24/2020 at 10:02 AM, Space Merchant said:

That being said, us Unitarians know of the owner as well, despite the fact all of us, regardless of faith, suffer from the actions of a few men and women with brazen ideas, this is to be expected. But  at the end of the day, material under such notion always belongs to whom it originated from, especially if said material was used in a way that differs from origin and or the like.

I read the works of Mill, John Stuart., 1844 Essays on Some Unsettled Questions of Political Economy, since it had a compound substance to what the Miller movement, the “Advent” movement, simple put, the “second coming of Christ” meant, as signs of that time. It also had some substance for 1874.

As a Utilitarian, I found his works helpful to sure up some personal time lines, even though he was criticized for his book, Utilitarianism of 1861.

I suspect the Utilitarianism you are focused on, is the “moral” and “political” aspect. JW's do focus on morality as Jesus did, but we also know, there is no spiritual benefit to political monopoly as Jesus was ultimately subjected to.

A good reason I don’t mind having the complete works of John Stuart Mill and others like William Paley.

Author(s): John Stuart Mill (Author), Delphi Classics (Editor) Delphi Classics, Year: 2019

John Stuart.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am of the opinion that no non-JW or ex-JW, intends to use and presents WT published materials as their own. That is a ridiculous and impossible assumption. For everything that is used (in whole or in part) serves for a religious debate in which some advocate one opinion and others refute or ridicule it.


For the purpose of argumentation only: What reasonable person of the ranks of ex-JW would like to advocate the idea of FDS and GB since 1919 as his own? Intellectual property :)) and copyright. 

What ex-JW have intention to COPY / DUPLICATE such intellect? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing i do find very funny on here and in the CCJW is this. 

Everyone seems to say 'Read the Bible' 'Study God's Word' 'Pray for Holy Spirit'

BUT when a person does those things and comes to an understanding of scripture, oh dear, they must be wrong because they don't agree with YOU !  

@Arauna I agree with your latest comment. One reason being that I truly believe the Greek Scriptures are meant for the true Anointed to understand, not the 'domestic' Earthly class. 

Just look on this forum how many different opinions there are. My opinion is no better or worse that any other. 

One man on here says he 'studies religions', but is that what God really requires of us ?  How long would it take us to study all religions ? 

Just one little point. The GB 'inspired' Elders have regularly told congregants to 'Leave it with Jehovah' when congregants have been wronged, even to the point of CSA. 

But when the GB / CCJW / W/t are wronged they get their Lawyers to fight it all the way. 

So why can't they just 'Leave it with Jehovah' ?  Is it all about the money ? 

Well this example of the GB and their lawyers will probably 'inspire' more CSA victims to fight it all the way. After all it seems that the GB and you people are only interested in people's 'rights according to law'. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Srecko Sostar [1] Registered Copyright [2] US and International Laws regarding copyright and [3] As pointed out among the religious and non-religious, even some ExJWs pointed out the latter is going to have a hard time dealing with the fact said material is copyright registered. Some even exclaimed stolen material.

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

One thing i do find very funny on here and in the CCJW is this. 

Everyone seems to say 'Read the Bible' 'Study God's Word' 'Pray for Holy Spirit'

BUT when a person does those things and comes to an understanding of scripture, oh dear, they must be wrong because they don't agree with YOU !  

@Arauna I agree with your latest comment. One reason being that I truly believe the Greek Scriptures are meant for the true Anointed to understand, not the 'domestic' Earthly class. 

Just look on this forum how many different opinions there are. My opinion is no better or worse that any other. 

One man on here says he 'studies religions', but is that what God really requires of us ?  How long would it take us to study all religions ? 

Just one little point. The GB 'inspired' Elders have regularly told congregants to 'Leave it with Jehovah' when congregants have been wronged, even to the point of CSA. 

But when the GB / CCJW / W/t are wronged they get their Lawyers to fight it all the way. 

So why can't they just 'Leave it with Jehovah' ?  Is it all about the money ? 

Well this example of the GB and their lawyers will probably 'inspire' more CSA victims to fight it all the way. After all it seems that the GB and you people are only interested in people's 'rights according to law'. 

  • But if that was the case, there would not be a need for a sheer misunderstanding of Scripture, which, in this thread alone can be seen on your part. Most Christians understood how the early church was functioning, as I pointed out in the past to both Witness and Srecko regarding the Structure of the Church, although the Bible was correct, they object to it even though the evidence is there in the New Testament.
  • As for your opinion, you have to also take into account of legitimate fact. If the fact of something stands tall over your opinion on something, what is correct and incorrect? As we can see, regarding this situation, you speak of opinion, as is, using assumptions.
  • I do study religion, and the reason I do this is due to the fact people often use false claims and misconceptions. Likewise, when it comes to the Christian faith itself, there is a multitude of misconceptions, of which someone like me, as well as others, will speak of in correction, hence, why I do as such. Moreover, the study is also to understand the point of view of the person, often times, understanding of whom I, and or someone else, is preaching to.
  • No man since the death of the last Apostle was ever Inspired, not even the students of the Apostles. Therefore, you assuming "inspiration" when the Bible says otherwise - is incorrect. Concerning the faith community that is being focused, they are not inspired prophets, therefore, that does not defeat the purpose of what it means to be spirit-led, those asking for/praying for the Holy Spirit. As with anyone on this forum, no one is inspired, as is with the chosen ones of the modern era, none of them are inspired either. Moreover, you would not catch the claim of inspiration from anyone.
  • It is there material, if the Book of Romans was not clearer to you, they are in the right in terms of their material, likewise for everyone, every entity, every institution.
  • That last statement is an absurd one, and it is unwise to try and equate, in Biblical terms, inspiration. As for the focused topic, it has very little to do.
  • That being said, again, I suggest you read the book of Romans regarding authority and subjection as is with subjection to God's Law.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Arauna said:

??   

Your personal opinion only......... and while you are allowed to have a personal opinion , it does not mean it is absolutely correct.  Satan and his demons are also allowed by God to have a personal opinion..... 

The problem I see is sometimes people tend to use opinions as well as feelings to overshadow facts. There is nothing wrong with professing such, however, one cannot and should not being ignoring or purposely be ignorant of the facts. In this case, as we can see, many people are ignoring the whole concept of copyright laws even though it is presented in front of them.

The irony of it all, regarding this faith, even some of it's former members are pointing this out as we speak, but like the whole Nov. park situation, they will threaten those of their own community if they speak the truth regarding copyright issues. So basically, pertaining to JWs, ExJWs will speak their peace in this regard only to receive members of their own community that speak otherwise, and you have ExJWs vs. ExJWs.

This is something that is common nearly in every faith community regarding former members, a notion of infighting.

That being said, the facts in the matter stand tall and true, as can be seen in this thread, as is with awaiting for more development regarding this situation. Therefore, those going around the facts essential dug their own grave in this regard, especially since the material in question is 100% registered, which will be something very difficult to challenge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

whole concept of copyright laws even though it is presented in front of them.

They usually are not strong on law....... it is more about 'feelings' to them. 

Laws are in place for a reason. Theft of intellectual property is a major problem. China has been stealing US patents for decades. 

Sometimes these people act outside the law and should learn a legal  lesson or two. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is interesting to look at religious individuals and religious organizations who call for subjection on behalf secular authorities when that suites them (religious organization). But when not, they advocate for their religious rights and freedom of speech and loudly call for bible verse as explanation and justification of own disrespect and disobedience to secular laws in some other subject matter: "you must obey god more than men (secular authorities)". 

Obviously, in WTJWorg copyrights claims, main issue is not how to use and defend Trade and Copyrights laws in particular country, BUT The Company hard work to DEFEND WTJWorg Religious Teachings and Doctrines and Internal Policy that some other people found to be wrong or error or manipulation or not truth. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

For the purpose of argumentation only: What reasonable person of the ranks of ex-JW would like to advocate the idea of FDS and GB since 1919 as his own? Intellectual property :)) and copyright. 

This in itself is an assumption since 1919 reflects on the Bible Student Era and NOT JW's. The second assumption is on not viewing copyright laws correctly. Anything before 1923 is considered public domain. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It is interesting to look at religious individuals and religious organizations who call for subjection on behalf secular authorities when that suites them (religious organization). But when not, they advocate for their religious rights and freedom of speech and loudly call for bible verse as explanation and justification of own disrespect and disobedience to secular laws in some other subject matter: "you must obey god more than men (secular authorities)". 

Obviously, in WTJWorg copyrights claims, main issue is not how to use and defend Trade and Copyrights laws in particular country, BUT The Company hard work to DEFEND WTJWorg Religious Teachings and Doctrines and Internal Policy that some other people found to be wrong or error or manipulation or not truth. 

What? Also copyright is not tied to companies only, at the end of the day it is THEIR material, that is either stolen and or used improperly.

There is no need to be tap dance-and-heel around the matter.

That being said FACTS > FEELINGS

This is Biblical Facts all over again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

This in itself is an assumption since 1919 reflects on the Bible Student Era and NOT JW's

According to WT publications JW's spiritual roots are from Abel, old Israel, first Christian congregation and then big jump to Russell and Bible Students ... till today :)))) How would JW's exist without Bible Student movement? JW's are legal successor of many things, including spiritual and material inheritance from Russell's child aka Bible Students later IBSA.

After Rutherford's takeover of Corporation he changed the name of the movement but with same Corporation mother.

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Anything before 1923 is considered public domain.

Anything what was published under the name of WT Corporation, before and after 1923, have to be questioned !! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/23/2020 at 11:57 AM, 4Jah2me said:

 @Space Merchant

i.e. said claim of yours stated that they said Armageddon would happen on 1975, but there was no claim made by them to suggest such, anywhere.

 

could see was a short time ahead in which to finish the work assigned to them." w68_1975.JPG

Watchtower 1968 Aug 15 p.494 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?

"1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history"

That's a pretty straight forward statement indeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

"1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history"

Word "end" is "sword with double edge" it seems. And is absolutely not necessary for chronology or to point history periods. 

As in many other textual issues and ambiguities about the actual meaning of text, we need few things. To look for:

1) Context

2) Grammar and spelling precision, rules in sentences which are expected to send true meaning of author's thoughts

3) Author's own explanation what he want to say 

What we have today for meet these 3 conditions?

- some passages from WT 1968 article:

Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand year period of man’s existence coincides with the sabbath like thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah’s loving and timely purposes. Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the “sixth day,” which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam’s 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or “day” ended, and how long Adam lived into the “seventh day.” And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.................33 This time between Adam’s creation and the beginning of the seventh day, the day of rest, let it be noted, need not have been a long time. It could have been a rather short one.............So the lapse of time between Adam’s creation and the end of the sixth creative day, though unknown, was a comparatively short period of time.............35 One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but Father...... To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the “day and hour”! ...

Entire WT article deal with chronology and how WT scholars are very good in that. In preamble of magazine is purpose of WT magazine and it said this:

No, "The Watchtower" is no inspired prophet, but it follows and explains a Book of prophecy the predictions in which have proved to be unerring and unfailing till now.  "The Watchtower" is therefore under safe guidance. It may be read with confidence, for its statements may be checked against that prophetic Book.

Article giving enough material for followers to think seriously:

about period of time that will be completed in 1975 within this generation. Generation of 1914 i assume?!

Reign of Christ after end of 6000 period? Possibly, but wait to see?! Authors of WT article said it is possible!!

What about words "nobody knows day and hour"? Article said how  This is not the time to be toying with the Jesus words, but in what sense? Article warned readers/members how end time is NOT in far future, and how JW's  must be careful to not use Jesus words as excuse to not put trust in article which said how Jesus Reign IS POSSIBLE in 1975 or soon after, because end of this system of things is RAPIDLY COMING to its violent end. All this is Based on: WT chronology and interpretations about predictions which have proved to be unerring and unfailing till now, and because magazine is under safe guidance 

50 years later JW's are still under safe guidance but with changed interpretations.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/28/2020 at 8:55 AM, Matthew9969 said:

"1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history"

That's a pretty straight forward statement indeed.

The problem is, it gives no indication of this statement "Armageddon will happen in 1975" If the latter says they indeed says this, what is the harm in finding the quote and stating it here?

Likewise with the current situation of national tension, as pointed out here before, because of the actions of 2 factional powers, anything can happen from 2016 and onward, clearly my statement was not stating that WWIII will indeed happens, however, I pointed out that shift in powers can head towards that path. Likewise with Civil War with the involvement of Anti-Fascist groups and so forth, something Rook and I had a clear understanding in.

That being said, the EXJW who pointed this out, although being attacked by ExJWs, was telling the truth of the matter, as have many.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By Isabella
      The Truth and Transparency Foundation — the nonprofit group behind the controversial MormonLeaks website — has settled a copyright infringement lawsuit with the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
      The settlement comes after the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, the publisher for the religious group, sued the nonprofit, alleging it violated copyright when it published Jehovah’s Witnesses’ educational videos on its FaithLeaks website.
      The lawsuit alleged that the Truth and Transparency Foundation, run by Ryan McKnight and Ethan Dodge, published 74 copyright videos on its website. A post detailing the leak described the videos as content shown exclusively during annual conventions. Those who attempted to distribute or upload the videos were met with threats of a lawsuit if they didn’t take the videos down, the post says, which has included the Truth and Transparency Foundation in the past.
      The nonprofit had said it intended to fight the lawsuit, asserting the release of the videos is covered under a constitutional right to free speech. But after fundraising efforts came up short, the group settled the lawsuit instead.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • By 4Jah2me
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Jehovah’s Witnesses Sue FaithLeaks Owners Over Convention Videos
      An entity owned by the Jehovah’s Witnesses sued the owners of the religious whistleblower site FaithLeaks on Thursday for allegedly infringing copyrights by posting the group’s materials publicly on the internet.
      The Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society of Pennsylvania says the Truth & Transparency Foundation illegally reproduced 74 of its in-house videos on the FaithLeaks site.
    • Guest Indiana
      By Guest Indiana
      Jehovah's Witnesses may appeal a judgment that gave the green light to a class-action lawsuit against them for alleged sexual assault on minors.
      Jehovah’s Witnesses in Quebec may appeal a judgment that gave the green light to a class-action lawsuit against them for alleged sexual assault on minors.
      The Quebec Court of Appeal on Monday granted them the right to appeal a judgment authorizing the class action, handed down in February by Justice Chantal Corriveau of the Superior Court.
      At the heart of the class action is whether the church failed to protect its members when they tried to denounce sexual abuse.
      The class action argues the church’s internal reporting policies conceal abuse and have silenced hundreds of sexual assault complaints through the years. It seeks at least $250,000 in damages for each alleged victim.
      The lawsuit targets the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Canada, the parent company of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the country, and another society based in Pennsylvania that’s responsible for the church’s communications and publications.
      At the heart of the class action is whether the church failed to protect its members when they tried to denounce sexual abuse.
      According to the lawsuit, Lisa Blais, now in her 40s, first spoke out about the alleged abuse when she was 16 years old. She sought help from her parents, another Jehovah’s Witness and an elder — members who act as spiritual leaders in different congregations — but says she was discouraged from reporting the abuse in order to protect the community.
      Blais left her family at 17 and was officially disfellowshipped at 24.
      In seeking leave to appeal Corriveau’s judgment, Watch Tower Canada described the decision as “unprecedented in Quebec.” The alleged assaults did not take place in an institutional setting, the organization noted, and it was not leaders or employees of the religious organization who allegedly committed the acts.
      The Quebec Court of Appeal found that the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ arguments deserve to be further assessed. Jehovah’s Witnesses will now have to plead their case before the Court of Appeal, at a date yet to be determined.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Indiana
      By Guest Indiana
      More than 70 victims of sexual abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses have come forward with their stories since the public network aired a documentory about it last week, reports the nonprofit organisation Reclaimed Voices Belgium.
      The documentary brought to light that the organisation had been covering up sexual abuse of minors via an internal 'disciplinary' system for years, concluded Pano. That way, none of the claims were reported to the police. One of the witnesses in the documentary was very straightforward in calling it "a paradise for paedophiles".

      According to CIAOSN, an independent centre set up by Belgium's Department of Justice to study sectarian organisations, there are similar findings in 12 other countries. The report concludes that the issues in all other countries are the same. Due to the strict hierarchy of the organisation, it's very difficult to come forward, reports CIAOSN.

      The elders of the organisation usually don't listen to the victims, or don't help them. They usually tell them to keep their mouths shut, said one of the witnesses. "I was told to keep the abuse to myself. 'We don't want to slander God's name.' I had to trust them to take care of it. They told me to pray some more and everything would be fine."

      Jehovah's Witnesses disapprove of sexual abuse, but they don't have any policies to prevent it or report it to the police. Victims that quit the organisation are ignored completely and lose all social contact. Another issue that returns frequently in CIAOSN's report is that victims have to give their statements about the abuse in the presence of their abusers. If the accused denies involvement, they'll only further the investigation after two other witness statements. In all these 13 countries, there is not one woman involved in the internal disciplinary system.

      "Noteworthy is the number of people that talk about the severe psychological damage that the exclusion by the community brings with it," the statement of Reclaimed Voices Belgium said. "In conversations we've had with victims so far, it seems that the trauma caused by the exclusion that follows when a victim speaks up about the abuse has an even bigger impact than the abuse itself."

      Maïthé Chini
      The Brussels Times

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Read more: https://www.businesspost.ie/news/concerns-grow-jehovahs-witnesses-irish-child-sex-abuse-files-421695
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      The Supreme Court of Canada Thursday heard arguments in a fight over a church’s “shunning” practice, and said it would release a ruling later, but the congregation involved and several other groups argued that the justices had no right to even take part in the fight.
      The fight is between Randy Wall, a real estate agent, and the Highwood congregation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization in Calgary.
      Wall was expelled from the congregation for getting drunk and not be properly repentant, court records said. He pursued a church appeals process, unsuccessfully, then went to court because he said the church’s “shunning,” that is, practice of not associating with him in any way, hurt his business.
      He explained his two occasions of drunkenness related to “the previous expulsion by the congregation of his 15-year-old daughter.”
      A lower court opinion explained, “Even though the daughter was a dependent child living at home, it was a mandatory church edict that the entire family shun aspects of their relationship with her. The respondent said the edicts of the church pressured the family to evict their daughter from the family home. This led to … much distress in the family.”
      The “much distress” eventually resulted in his drunkenness, Wall said.
      See the WND Superstore’s collection of Bibles, including the stunning 1599 Geneva Bible.
      Wall submitted to the court arguments that about half his client base, members of various Jehovah’s Witnesses congregations, then refused to conduct business with him. He alleged the “disfellowship had an economic impact on the respondent.”
      During high court arguments Thursday, the congregation asked the justices to say that congregations are immune to such claims in the judicial system.
      The lower courts had ruled that the courts could play a role in determining if, and when, such circumstances rise to the level of violating civil rights or injuring a “disfellowshipped” party.
      The rulings from the Court of Queen’s Bench and the Alberta Court of Appeals said Wall’s case was subject to secular court jurisdiction.
      A multitude of religious and political organizations joined with the congregation in arguing that the Canada’s courts should not be involved.
      The Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms said in a filing, “The wish or desire of one person to associate with an unwilling person (or an unwilling group) is not a legal right of any kind. For a court, or the government, to support such a ‘right’ violates the right of self-determination of the unwilling parties.”
      Previous case law has confirmed the ability of religious or private voluntary groups to govern themselves and dictate who can be a member.
      But previously rulings also reveal there is room for the court system to intervene when the question is one of property or civil rights.
      The Association for Reformed Political Action, described the case as having “profound implications for the separation of church and state.”
      Its position is that the court should keep hands off the argument.
      “Secular judges have no authority and no expertise to review a church membership decision,” said a statement from Andre Schutten, a spokesman for the group. “Church discipline is a spiritual matter falling within spiritual jurisdiction, not a legal matter falling within the courts’ civil jurisdiction. The courts should not interfere.”
      John Sikkema, staff lawyer for ARPA, said, “The issue in this appeal is jurisdiction. A state actor, including a court, must never go beyond its jurisdiction. The Supreme Court must consider what kind of authority the courts can or cannot legitimately claim. We argue that the civil government and churches each have limited and distinct spheres of authority. This basic distinction between civil and spiritual jurisdiction is a source of freedom and religious pluralism and a guard against civic totalism.”
      He continued, “Should the judiciary have the authority to decide who gets to become or remain a church member? Does the judiciary have the authority to decide who does or does not get to participate in the sacraments? Church discipline is a spiritual matter falling within spiritual jurisdiction, not a legal matter falling within the courts’ civil jurisdiction. The courts should not interfere. Here we need separation of church and state.”
      The Alberta Court of Appeal, however, suggested the fight was about more than ecclesiastical rules.
      “Because Jehovah’s Witnesses shun disfellowshipped members, his wife, other children and other Jehovah’s Witnesses were compelled to shun him,” that lower court decision said. “The respondent asked the appeal committee to consider the mental and emotional distress he and his family were under as a result of his duaghter’s disfellowship.”
      The church committee concluded he was “not sufficiently repentant.”
      The ruling said “the only basis for establishing jurisdiction over a decision of the church is when the complaint involves property and civil rights,” and that is what Wall alleged.
      “Accordingly, a court has jurisdiction to review the decision of a religious organization when a breach of the rules of natural justice is alleged.”
       
       
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      BETHESDA — The village voted Thursday to end its K-9 program and donate its police dog to the Belmont County Sheriff’s Office on the same night that the board accepted the resignations of two more police officers.
      Meanwhile, the police department’s interim chief and its only remaining full-time officer — who was just hired in April — said they are trying to put the department back together with the hope of rebuilding the public’s trust.
      Interim Police Chief Fred Thompson made the request to transfer the police dog, Frankie, to the Belmont County Sheriff’s Office. He said he believes the dog was an unnecessary expense that had never been used.
      “I think this canine was purchased to be a dog-and-pony show,” said Thompson. “It was a publicity stunt. We don’t need the dog.”
      Mayor Martin Lucas said the K-9 units at Barnesville and the sheriff’s office are willing to help when needed.
      “If that dog bites somebody, I’m not sure we have enough liability coverage,” Lucas said.
      “It’s not being used. It’s sitting in Bridgeport doing absolutely nothing.”
      The dog’s handler is Bethesda Police Chief Eric Smith, who was suspended in April and is being investigated by the Ohio Attorney General’s office for allegations that he misused the state’s law enforcement data sharing system. Misuse of the system is a felony, the attorney general’s office has said.
      The mayor said Belmont County Sheriff David Lucas has agreed to take Frankie.
      “The sheriff has guaranteed that the dog will be used in our village as needed,” he said.
      Meanwhile, two more full-time police officers have resigned from the Village of Bethesda Police Department. Both had served as resource officers for the Union Local School District.
      Lucas announced Thursday the resignations of Francesca Y. Ceccanese and Kyler Hanlon. They join the roster of resignations of police, council members and the former solicitor who have left in the wake of an investigation of Smith.
      Lucas said the village’s contract with the school district ends with the school year. He said the village would determine at a later date if it intends to pursue renewing the contract with the school district.
      Mike Menges, safety director at the school district, said Thursday night that the district had hired retired state highway patrolman Jason Greenwood as its safety officer coordinator. However, he also said he could not comment on the status of the district’s contract with the village of Bethesda. He said Bethesda police officers are still in Union Local buildings.
      After the most recent resignations, the police force has one full-time patrolman, Pete Busack; Fred Thompson, who is serving as interim chief in an administrative-only role; and four part-time officers.
      Lucas also said the village had received more complaints about how people were treated while Smith was leading the department. He said the village had received notification from legal representation of Jehovah’s Witnesses alleging that the police department, under Smith’s administration, had harassed Jehovah’s Witnesses and told them to leave. The religious group’s lawyers did not specify an officer’s name or a date when the harassment may have occurred.
      “I’ll seek some legal advice on returning a letter to this attorney, saying that will no longer happen,” Lucas said.
      Lucas also said Bethesda is aware that the village of Belmont intends to form its own police department. Bethesda’s contract to provide law enforcement will for Belmont will end June 1. Belmont officials have said this is unrelated to Bethesda’s police department issues. Lucas said the departments will have an agreement of mutual aid.
      Also, Busack gave an update on the state of the village’s police department. He said he and Thompson have focused on reorganization.
      “We haven’t had a lot of patrol due to the fact that we have a lot of office work,” he said.
      Among the issues they’ve had to address is creating a system of keeping track of an officer’s keys during shifts and removing the tinting from the front windows of the patrol cars.
      “You want to be able to look outwardly and wave to people when they wave back at you, and when you have black windows, which, No. 1, is illegal in the State of Ohio on the front windows, you can’t see in,” he said.
      He also said removing the tint will allow better communication with other motorists.
      “The entire office, in our opinion, was out of order, and it still to a degree is out of order, and things like that can’t be fixed overnight,” said Busack who also said they were in the process of organizing the evidence room and weapons cabinet.
      “I tried to account for all the weapons, tasers and related equipment,” he said. “In the future, we will do a full inventory of the weapons and of the evidence that’s in there.”
      Additionally, an activity log will be available for council members to access and see the daily activities of police officers. Busack said no sensitive information would be included.
      “Chief Thompson and I will work to restore the trust, confidence and integrity to the citizens of the village of Bethesda and all the surrounding communities,” Busack said.
      “I appreciate your efforts,” Lucas said. “I can’t thank you enough for trying to put this back together.”
      Also, Lucas announced the current $210 fines for speeding tickets would be reduced. He also said that it is the province of mayor’s court to set fines. A new amount will be determined.
      Also, the council will henceforth meet 7:30 p.m. the second Tuesday of the month and the fourth Thursday.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      The Jehovah’s Witnesses community in the Netherlands will not hold an independent inquiry into the sexual abuse of members, despite being urged to do so by justice minister Sander Dekker. By last month, 267 reports of sexual abuse involving Jehovah’s Witnesses had been made to a hotline set up by the Reclaimed Voices foundation in 2017 after Trouw published a report on the growing scandal. Dekker told RTL Nieuws on Tuesday that the organisation’s decision is ‘disappointing’ and that it is ignoring the victims who want to be heard. He has no powers to force the organisation to hold an inquiry.
      Read more: 
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • By Jack Ryan
      Has anyone tried interacting with faithleaks?
      Is it similar to this website where what I post can be shared to any social media website easily?
      Do they offer some special protection for whistleblowers that I am not aware of?
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      On Friday, May 25, 20/20 will do "something special" for longtime co-anchor Elizabeth Vargas.
      You can call it a going-away party (10/9c, ABC). After 22 years at ABC (14 with the newsmagazine), the Emmy and Peabody Award–winning veteran journalist heads to A&E, where she’ll work under their new primetime banner, A&E Investigates.
      Tell us about your first two A&E shows.
      They’re the first in a nine-part series called Cults and Extreme Beliefs(premieres Monday, May 28, 10/9c). Each episode centers on a person who recently left the group we focus on.
      Our premiere looks at the [so-called “self-help”] NXIVM ring that made headlines when leader Keith Raniere and actress Allison Mack, a high-ranking member, were indicted for sex trafficking. We talk to Sarah Edmondson, who feels enormous regret that she recruited so many people into NXIVM and we follow her as she reaches out to some of them.
      And the second episode?
      It’s about an apocalyptic cult called Twelve Tribes. Our contact is a woman born into the group, cut off from the outside world. She now helps people to escape.
      What have you learned about these insular communities?
      That many of those involved are bright, well-meaning and incredibly altruistic. Some of these groups exist alongside modern society, with no one noticing. For instance, we profile the Jehovah’s Witnesses, which has a history of protecting alleged child molesters because they don’t believe in going to the police.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      (The Conversation is an independent and nonprofit source of news, analysis and commentary from academic experts.)
      Robert A. Sedler, Wayne State University
      (THE CONVERSATION) New Hampshire’s state motto “Live free or die” is, for many residents, a stirring evocation of the independent spirit of colonial America.
      But not all New Hampshirites agree with this well-known slogan that is emblazoned on the state’s license plates. In 1975, George Maynard was sent to jail because he didn’t believe in it.
      Maynard and his wife were Jehovah’s Witnesses, a Christian denomination that teaches that true believers will enjoy eternal life. The couple felt that the state’s motto violated this tenet. So Maynard covered up the “or die” part on his vehicles’ license plates.
      Police gave him three different tickets for illegally altering the plates. When he refused to pay the fines, which totaled US$75, he was given a 15-day jail sentence.
      Maynard then filed a lawsuit that reached the U.S. Supreme Court. In 1977, the Supreme Court ruled that the First Amendment gave Maynard the legal right to cover up those two words. In other words, the First Amendment – which guarantees the right to free speech – can also give people the right to remain silent.
      I am a legal scholar, so when I learned that the Supreme Court will decide two right-to-silence cases this term the Maynard case came to mind.
      The Maynard decision was not the first time the court ruled in favor of a Jehovah’s Witness’ right to be silent. Both decisions hinge on the justices’ determination that the First Amendment includes, in the court’s words, the right “to avoid becoming a ‘mobile billboard’ for the State’s ideological message.”
      It may sound contradictory to say the right to be silent flows from the right to speak, but it is not.
      Read more: 
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      ST. PETERSBURG, May 3. /TASS/. The St. Petersburg city court has upheld the decision to confiscate from the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania in New York the compound in the community of Solnechnoye on the Gulf of Finland and convert it to state property, the St. Petersburg courts’ press service said on Thursday.
      Earlier, a court of lower instance found that officially the Administrative Center of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia in 2000 donated the real estate compound on the coast of the Gulf of Finland to the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, registered on US territory. However, according to the courts’ press-service, the Administrative Center continued to use the facilities as before, which was a reason enough to declare the transaction fictitious and void. The property was taken over by the state.
      The compound consists of sixteen items - plots of land, homes and buildings more than 880 million rubles ($13.9 million) worth.
      Earlier, TASS reported that the defendants had disagreed with the lower instance court’s ruling and filed an appeal at the St. Petersburg city court. In particular, they argued that substantive law had been violated and anti-extremist law sanctions were used against them without a reason.
      Russia’s Supreme Court had declared Jehovah’s Witnesses an extremist organization and outlawed its activity in Russia.


      More:

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      The number of reports of sexual abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses now stands at 267, Reclaimed Voices, a foundation that manages the hotline for this type of abuse, said to newspaper Trouw.
      Reclaimed Voices was established last year after Trouw published the stories of a number of Jehovah's Witnesses who were abused during their youth. One victim called the religious group a "paradise for pedophiles", because the Jehovah's Witnesses elders tend to keep sexual abuse quiet. In the first week of its existence, the hotline received nearly 50 sexual abuse reports. 
      According to the newspaper, the victims of sexual abuse asked the Jehovah's Witnesses elders for a meeting to discuss this abuse six months ago, but still haven't heard anything. This has a big affect on the victims, Frank Huiting of Reclaimed Voices said to Trouw. "They are angry, they haven't known where they stand for some time and feel disappointed about the entire process. They still aren't being heard, is what it comes down to."
      Minister Sander Dekker for Legal Protection also instructed the leaders of the Jehovah's Witnesses to start a conversation with the victims. 

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      The parents of a 14-year-old boy with bone cancer won a legal challenge against a Mesa hospital that attempted to override their religious objections to blood transfusions.
      The Arizona Court of Appeals on Tuesday ruled that a lower court's emergency hotline used by hospitals to authorize medical treatment on behalf of patients is not allowed under state law.
      The parents of a 14-year-old boy with bone cancer challenged Banner Cardon Children's use of a Maricopa County Superior Court emergency hotline to authorize blood transfusions on behalf of the child. The parents and boy are Jehovah's Witnesses and objected to blood transfusions on religious grounds. 
      While Banner Cardon's medical-treatment plan initially consisted of alternative therapies to fit the parents' religious views, hospital staff later determined that blood transfusions were medically necessary. 
      Hospital staff called the Maricopa County Superior Court hotline multiple times from October through December last year to seek authorization for the blood transfusions. The court granted three of five requests, according to court documents.
      The parents filed a petition with the Arizona Court of Appeals seeking to halt the transfusions.    
      The parents, identified as Glenn and Sonia H., argued that the Superior Court hotline "lacked jurisdiction" for such emergency medical requests and also argued that hospital staffers did not justify the medical need for blood transfusions. 
      The lower court said that such emergency requests were "standard practice" nationwide and the hotline rotated among Superior Court judges who answered requests after hours. 
      In an opinion written by Judge Kenton D. Jones, the appellate court concluded that the question of whether the lower court had jurisdiction to OK emergency medical treatment was one "of significant statewide importance."
      Jones noted that Arizona law allows a Juvenile Court that has jurisdiction over a child to order a parent or guardian to get medical treatment for a child. However, the appellate court did not find any such jurisdiction for a Superior Court emergency hotline.
      "Our review of Arizona statutes and rules of procedure reveals no provision ... authorizing the superior court to maintain an emergency hotline for the purpose of ordering medical treatment for a non-consenting minor," Jones wrote. 
      Therefore, the lower court's order authorizing medical treatment on behalf of the boy is void, the appellate court said. 
      The parents filed the appellate-court action in November but did not request a stay of the lower court's order. The boy received blood transfusions on Dec. 1 and Dec. 5 before his parents relocated his care to a medical facility in Portland, Oregon. 
      Banner Health officials said the health-care provider has not yet decided whether to appeal the appellate court's decision.
      Representatives of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, which filed a legal brief on behalf of the parents, did not immediately return a message seeking comment.
      A Jehovah's Witnesses website said the religion considers blood transfusions a "religious issue rather than a medical one," citing multiple biblical passages.
      Patients who develop certain types of cancer, such as leukemia, often require blood transfusions as a part of treatment.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Why JW.ORG does not show development regarding sexual abuse cases as it does with other legal issues? 
       
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      On December 29th, 2017, Watchtower attorney Armin Pikl filed a lawsuit against Rowohlt Publishing Company, the highly regarded publishing house in Germany which produced the acclaimed book Goodbye Jehovah!, authored by former Jehovah’s Witness Misha Verollet. The autobiographical novel is subtitled “How I left the world’s most notorious cult.”
      Goodbye Jehovah!
      The suit followed a December cease and desist order from Watchtower which demanded the redaction of numerous passages along with the destruction of all current editions of the book in circulation. Rowohlt ignored Watchtower’s plea, resulting in legal action.
      Goodbye Jehovah! was published in 2014 under the author’s pen name Misha Anouk, and was well received in Germany, reaching #22 on the German best-sellers list.  Media attention was widespread across Germany, Switzerland and Austria, resulting in numerous television appearances, articles and radio interviews. While it was a clear winner in Europe, more than three years later the Jehovah’s Witness organization has opted to take issue with a book which is apparently having an effect on its German-speaking members.
      While Jehovah’s Witnesses are not permitted to read “apostate” books or any materials critical of their religion, Verollet believes some German-speaking JWs are reading his book. During an interview with JW Survey he stated:
      The average E-book share of book sales is 5 percent. With my book, over 20 percent were sold as E-books. This is an absolute outlier for the industry
      Because hardcopy books are easily found and confiscated, Verollet believes a number of Jehovah’s Witnesses are reading his book by downloading it to their tablets and phones. Witnesses are less likely to be caught with the electronic version of a book.
      Read more: 
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      ST. PETERSBURG, January 17 (RAPSI, Mikhail Telekhov) – A ruling to confiscate property worth 881.5 million rubles ($15.5 million) belonging to Jehovah's Witnesses organization banned in Russia has been appealed, the St. Petersburg courts’ press office has told RAPSI.
      The appeal was filed by Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania registered in the U.S.
      The Jehovah's Witnesses assets included 16 property items in St. Petersburg, according to prosecutors.
      A court earlier found that the Administrative Centre of Jehovah's Witnesses transferred its property complex to Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania under a donation agreement on March 1, 2000. However, the court declared the deal fraudulent because the Jehovah's Witnesses continued using the property after its transfer to the foreign organization, and confiscated the property complex in profit of the Russian Federation.
      In April 2017, the Supreme Court of Russia ordered liquidation of the Jehovah's Witnesses managing organization and all its 395 local branches. In August, the Administrative Centre of Jehovah's Witnesses was added to the list of banned extremist organizations.
      Jehovah’s Witnesses religious organization has had many legal problems in Russia. Since 2009, 95 materials distributed by the organization in the country have been declared extremist and 8 Jehovah's Witnesses’ branches have been liquidated, according to the Justice Ministry.
      Jehovah's Witnesses is an international religious organization based in Brooklyn, New York. Since 2004 several branches and chapters of the organization were banned and shut down in various regions of Russia.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      A lawsuit is now settled between a former victim of sexual abuse and Jehovah's Witnesses. According to the court's website, the case is under a "conditional settlement." The terms and conditions of the settlement are not public.
      José Lopez filed the lawsuit back in 2012, nearly 20 years after church elder Gonzalo Campos molested him and several other young children who were members of the Linda Vista congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses.
      As reported by the Reader, Campos, who fled to Mexico to escape criminal charges, admitted to committing the acts to Lopez’s and another victim's attorney, Devin Storey, while giving testimony in one of the cases.
      “I touched him in his private parts,” Campos testified.
      Attorney Storey: “Did you touch his penis?”
      Campos: “Yes.”
      Storey: “Did you penetrate him?”
      Campos: “Yes. Yes.”
      Storey: “How many times?”
      Campos: “More than once. I don’t know.”
      In 2009, five other alleged victims sued the Watchtower and Bible and Tract Society of New York, the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses, over the molestation by Campos and the Watchtower's refusal to act.
      That case settled for an undisclosed amount in 2012, the same year that Lopez filed his lawsuit and a year before another victim, Osbaldo Padron, filed his.
      Then, in 2015, a state court judge ruled that the Watchtower had failed to cooperate with discovery in the Lopez case. The judge awarded a $13.5 million judgment in favor of Lopez.
      The Watchtower later appealed the decision and managed to get the decision rescinded and promised to produce the requested documents.
      Meanwhile, a fight over documents was also occurring in Padron's case, the one filed shortly after Lopez’s lawsuit.
      At issue was Watchtower’s refusal to turn over a letter from headquarters that asked for the names of alleged sexual abusers in the church.
      But at the same time other documents had been released by the Linda Vista congregation, which showed the congregation and headquarters were aware that Campos had sexually assaulted young boys and a girl but still considered him eligible to return to the congregation.
      “In our meeting with him he said he was very repentant for what he did,” wrote an elder at Linda Vista's congregation to Watchtower headquarters in New York in 1999.
      “He stated that he wanted to return to Jehovah. He is willing to face the victims and ask their forgiveness. He now wants to obey Jehovah. Before, when he would speak to people on the platform he would not meditate on what he was doing. Although he needed to confess, he felt shameful and had fear of mankind. He would deceive himself thinking that he could continue serving as an elder. Now he realized that he could not change without help. Ever since his expulsion he has not abused anyone. He has read articles of the publications regarding his sin. He says he does not see or read pornographic information. He stated that ever since expulsion he has worked on having a relationship with Jehovah and the expulsion has served to strengthen him spiritually. He does not miss meetings, and he even takes notes of the program. He also said that he is willing to continue accepting Jehovah’s discipline.”
      While the two sides continued to fight over discovery in the Lopez case, another judge issued sanctions against the Watchtower for refusing to turn over documents in the Padron case.
      The Watchtower also appealed that decision as well.
      As covered by the Reader, in November a state appellate court rejected the appeal, sending the case back to state court and keeping the $4000-per-day sanctions in place.
      Meanwhile, as the Padron case was heading back to state court, attorneys for Lopez and Watchtower agreed to settle the Lopez case.
      Lopez’s attorney, Irwin Zalkin, did not respond to a request for comment prior to publication of this article.
      There is no word yet whether Padron's case has also been settled. A hearing is scheduled for next month.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Treinta y tres cartas y documentos internos, filtrados el martes por la organización de transparencia FaithLeaks, exponen una serie de acusaciones de abuso sexual de menores en la iglesia de los Testigos de Jehová y los esfuerzos que la iglesia hizo para encubrir el escándalo y mantenerlo alejado de la "corte mundana de la ley". Los documentos, escritos entre 1999 y 2012, son comunicaciones entre los líderes de la iglesia y las entidades legales de la iglesia, un grupo conocido colectivamente como Watchtower.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Call it the WikiLeaks of the religion world.
      A new website called FaithLeaks aims to bring transparency to the workings of religious congregations and denominations by publishing documents and data sets provided by anonymous sources.
      The web portal was founded by two former Mormons who have previously gained access to documents shedding light on the inner workings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its position on controversial issues such as gay marriage.
      This week, the two founders — Ryan McKnight and Ethan Dodge — published a trove of 33 letters and documents detailing an internal investigation of alleged sexual abuse within a congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
      The pair hopes to entice others to submit documents that shed light on three main areas: congregational finances, church policies and procedures, and documents related to sex abuse settlements.
       “Our goal is to reduce the amount of deception and untruths and unethical behaviors that exist in some facets of religion,” said McKnight, an accountant who lives in Las Vegas. “If someone is in possession of documents they feel deserve to be made public, we’re simply here to help facilitate that.”

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      The founders of MormonLeaks, a transparency organization that has released hundreds of controversial documents related to inner-workings of the Mormon Church, recently launched FaithLeaks, an ambitious and far-reaching project that aims to expose corruption and abuse across other religious organizations. Today, the new group has published dozens of pages of documents related to sexual assault allegations within the Jehovah’s Witness Church, documents which are presumably part of a database that church officials have refused to relinquish in an unrelated sexual molestation trial, resulting in a one and a half year legal battle and millions of dollars in fines.
      The 69 pages of documents detail how Jehovah’s Witnesses authorities and church officials handled allegations of repeated sexual assault by one of its local leaders. The interviews and detailed notes compiled by church authorities about molestation and rape allegations are horrific. The 33 documents also provide a staggering play-by-play of how the Watchtower Tract and Bible Society—the parent corporation and governing body for the Jehovah’s Witnesses, often simply referred to as “the Watchtower”—handled the case internally over the course of nearly a decade—playing therapist, prosecutor, jury, and judge—and the lengths to which they went to keep these accusations away from the “worldly court of law.”
      The documents show that in 1999, a committee of Jehovah’s Witnesses elders found allegations from two women that their father had sexually abused them to be credible, yet held off on forming an internal judicial committee to take their own form of judicial action against the alleged abuser because one of the daughters was not willing to face the father and formally make the accusations against him, as judicial committee policy requires. Once she went through with the process years later, a spiritually guided trial was held and he was disfellowshipped. However, a year later he was reinstated. The documents show that Jehovah’s Witnesses leaders cast shade on one accuser and her husband for trying to take this matter to secular law enforcement.
      Read more: 
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • By Shiwiii
      I've read some interesting information that has leaked from the wt through various sources and was curious what this group thought. It has to do with the plethora of known child molesters and the covering of those individuals. I'm sure this isn't too much of new news as we have already experienced the ARC (Australian Royal Commission) and the position made by gb Geoffrey Jackson and the folks in charge in Australia. From what I have heard from the average jw is that the ARC was made all just made up lies by apostates to make the org look bad. Well here comes round two? three? The evidence is pretty damaging to the way in which the org cares for its children and their staunch position to keep the org in a good light regardless of who may be collateral damage. While I won't post the actual link to what has been distributed, it is quite easy to find. Look up Faithleaks and then the latest press release. 
      Now I am quite sure there are going to be some here, quite a few actually, who would rather ignore things like this instead of actually finding out if in fact it is true or not. I don't find that in any way unusual from jws actually. When someone is told not to question the answers given, only listen-obey-and be blessed, then the only ones who will actually question those answers are those who actually care about others. After all, isn't that what we are commanded to do by Jesus? Care for others and you would yourself. This is why I am posting this, because if these things were constantly being brought forth about an organization I belonged to, I could not dismiss the claims that ring very similar from country to country. I would have to find out more.  Is this all just apostate lies all around the world made up by people who left the org, or could there be some truth to it? Also, its not like there is a single organization on this planet that is without its faults or bad people who reside within the org, but it is more about how the org deals with these matters. 
      So the simple question posed in this thread is do you approve of the way the wt handles abuse (child, domestic, sexual, etc.)? Do you know how the wt deals with such cases? 
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Reclaimed Voices, a foundation set up in the Netherlands to denounce sexual abuse by Jehovah's Witnesses, received 46 reports of abuse in just a week's time. The number of reports is shocking, Frank Huiting, one of the founders and himself a victim of sexual abuse in a closed Jehovah's Witnesses community as a child, said to broadcaster NOS. 
      The foundation was launched just over a week ago, based on Huiting's own experiences. He was abused from the time he was seven year's old. When Huiting told his parents, they decided not to report it to the police. An elder in the community advised against it. "Then there will be headlines in the newspaper and we don't want that."
      According to the Reclaimed Voices initiators, victims within the closed Jehovah's Witnesses community are not heard and perpetrators are left to continue unchecked. Over the past week, foundation employees heard stories from a number of people who were abused by Jehovah's Witnesses. "The fact that so many reports have come in actually says enough. There are at least hundreds of cases in the Netherlands that should actually come out", Huiting said, according to NOS. He added that so many victims are too afraid to come forward.
      The main purpose of Reclaimed Voices is to be a listening ear. The employees urge victims to speak out, and hope that they also report the abuse. "People walked around with this secret for years. And the fact that they are coming out, can be a relief for them. That was also my experience. We also want to advise them to seek professional help. Also outside the religious community, for example with a social worker, psychologist or general practitioner", Huiting said.
      The foundation aims to collect as man reports of sexual abuse as possible and present them to the board of Jehovah's Witnesses Netherlands and the Dutch government. "We want to get the government to investigate these abuses. And not to start a fight, but really to focus on the victim."
      Earlier this year Dutch newspaper Trouw spoke to a number of people who were sexually abused as children in the Jehovah's Witnesses community. One victim described the religious society as a "paradise for pedophiles". 

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Children who were sexually abused by Jehovah's Witnesses were allegedly told by the church not to report the crimes.
      Victims from across the UK told the BBC they were routinely abused and that the religious organisation's own rules protected perpetrators.
      One child abuse lawyer believes there could be thousands of victims across the country who have not come forward because of the "two witness" rule.
      A spokesperson for the church said it did not "shield" abusers.
      'Bring reproach on Jehovah'
      BBC Hereford and Worcester spoke to victims - men and women - from Birmingham, Cheltenham, Leicester, Worcestershire and Glasgow, one of whom waived her right to anonymity.
      Louise Palmer, who now lives in Evesham, Worcestershire, was born into the organisation along with her brother Richard Davenport, who started raping her when she was four. He is serving a 10-year prison sentence for the abuse.
      The 41-year-old, formerly of Halesowen, West Midlands, said when she told the church of the abuse she was told not to go to police.
      Read more: 
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      A 44-year-old man pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting a teenage boy he had met while working as a teacher in Long Beach, officials said Wednesday.
      Jason Morris Gorski on Tuesday pleaded to two counts of lewd or lascivious acts with a minor under 14, according to a statement from the Orange County District Attorney’s Office.
      Prosecutors said that Gorski met the 13-year-old victim in 2007 while working as a teacher at Southwestern Longview Private. The school shut down in 2008, state records show.
      Gorski had worked at the school for four years and was an active member of the Jehovah’s Witnesses congregation in Cypress when he met the boy.
      In 2009, the teenager reported the abuse to the congregation, which then removed Gorski from his position as an elder, but allowed him to remain an active member. Gorski later moved to South Carolina and started attending a Jehovah’s Witnesses congregation in Charlotte, North Carolina.
      The victim reported the abuse to law enforcement in March 2016. The Buena Park Police Department investigated the case and arrested Gorski in June 2016.
      Gorski is scheduled to return to court for sentencing on Jan. 26 and he faces a maximum possible sentence of 10 years in state prison.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Barry W. Bussey: Last week, the Supreme Court was asked to do something courts never do: review the solely religious decision of a church
      On November 2, the Supreme Court of Canada was asked to do something Canadian courts never do: review the solely religious decision of a church community. Until now, the courts have recoiled from getting involved in religious disputes—and for good reason.
      The case involves Randy Wall, who was dismissed from a Jehovah’s Witness church for failing to repent of his religious offences: getting drunk on two occasions and verbally abusing his wife. Wall’s appeal to another church entity was unsuccessful. He then appealed to a court of law by means of “judicial review,” on the grounds that the church had denied him a proper hearing. 
      In Canadian law, in a process known as “judicial review,” a person can ask a court to “review” (i.e. hear) whether the decision of a “public actor” (such as a government licensing agency) was unfairly decided. Courts rarely review decisions of “private actors” (such as a church); they generally do so only if a private actor’s decision engages property or civil rights. In Wall’s case, the court had to determine whether the Jehovah’s Witness church’s decision involved property or contractual rights, which would then enable the court to review the church’s decision.
      "The church argued it was a private religious body, not a public body"
      The church argued it was a private religious body, not a public body, and that its decision did not affect Wall’s property or contractual rights. It also argued that its disciplinary procedure was a religious process involving prayer and scripture reading aimed at reconciling the relationship between Wall and the church. The lower courts both held that religious decisions can be reviewed by courts to determine whether a church gave a fair hearing, even if no property or contractual rights were engaged. However, both courts were also of the view that property rights were an issue in the case. The Supreme Court of Canada must now decide whether those courts were right. The Supreme Court reserved judgment after last week’s hearing; we can expect its decision early in the new year.
      Courts like to “fix things.” They naturally want to find resolutions to disputes; this is what they exist to do. However, courts have historically avoided getting involved in religious cases, recognizing that they lack the expertise and authority to settle religious disagreements. They handle legal cases, such as contractual disputes, but not religious cases that raise metaphysical truths, such as the definition of God.
      Wall argued his case did involve a “property right,” because his dismissal from his church meant the church members were no longer willing to do business with him. As a real estate agent, 50 per cent of his clientele were Jehovah’s Witnesses. His business folded from the loss of their support. He says there is a direct line of causation between his loss of church membership and business loss. It’s likely the case that one caused the other, but that doesn’t mean Wall’s claim is a legally enforceable property right. 
      "A church member is not required to patronize the business of a former church member"
      The reality is, Wall chose to limit his business to Jehovah’s Witnesses and took a personal risk in doing so. The church did not tell him to do so, and certainly there is no known legal principle that says a church is responsible for the economic losses that might flow from a loss of membership. A church member is not required to patronize the business of a former member. In the same way, we would not expect a former husband to maintain business with his ex-wife’s family.
      At last week’s hearing, Wall’s legal counsel tried to persuade the court that, if there are no grounds under Canadian law for the court to interfere in purely religious matters, the court should then consider adopting U.K. law, which does allow this type of review. “Good luck!” Justice Rosalie Abella quipped, prompting everyone to burst into laughter.
      That exchange suggested the court was not persuaded that it is time to change the law to allow courts to get tangled up in reviewing decisions of religious bodies. That would be a good thing, as courts don’t have the moral or legal authority or doctrinal expertise to decide such matters.
      This hearing occurred around the time of the 500-year anniversary of Martin Luther’s nailing of his 95 Theses to a church door in Wittenberg, Germany. If we have learned anything since then, it’s that the law does not need to apply to every nook and cranny of our lives – especially our religious affairs.
      Barry W. Bussey is Director Legal Affairs at the Canadian Council of Christian Charities. He blogs at lawandreligion.org
       

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      A group of alleged sexual abuse survivors from across the country have filed a $66-million class action lawsuit against the Jehovah’s Witness, CityNews has learned.
      The suit accuses the religious organization of having rules and policies that protect child sex abusers and put children at risk.
      “The organization’s policy and protocol for dealing with allegations of sexual abuse is seriously flawed, and results in further harm to victims of sexual abuse and results in legitimate allegations of sexual abuse going unreported,” it alleges.
      “This is an issue that the wider community should be concerned with, and not just Jehovah’s Witnesses,” says Tricia Franginha. She says her first 14 years of life as a Jehovah’s Witness were filed with sexual abuse.
      “As a result of their procedures, when abuse allegations come forward, these sexual offenders are left at large,” Franginha says. “As most people know about Jehovah’s Witnesses, they are the ones who come to your door on Saturday mornings, when your kids are home, and for all you know, that person has offended more than once.”
      None of the allegations in this the suit have been tested in Ontario Superior Court. A spokesperson for the Jehovah’s Witness says that while the suit has been filed, the organization hasn’t officially received it yet, so they can’t comment on the details.
      “Jehovah’s Witnesses abhor child abuse and would never shield any perpetrator,” says spokesperson Mattieu Rozon. The organization also says congregation elders comply with child abuse reporting laws.
      Franginha says that when she went for help, she was shut down.
      “When I was around 12, I was told that I didn’t have two witnesses and I needed to respect my parents – not to talk about it,” she says.
      The need to have two witnesses corroborate allegations of abuse is singled out in the suit. People who have been sexually abused must present two credible witnesses to their abuse, explains Franginha, who adds that the eyewitnesses must be other Jehovah’s Witnesses in good standing in the church.
      “This, obviously, never happens,” she says. “The very nature of the crime is that it’s secret.”
      The suit also alleges that police are not called when allegations surface and instead they’re handled by church elders inside Kingdom Hall.
      “It is our information, based on people who contacted us, that the systems in place don’t guard against [abuse] happening, and when allegations are made, inadequate measures are in place to ensure that the complaint reaches the proper authorities,” says Bryan McPhadden, laywer at McPhadden Samac Tuovi, which is representing the victims.
      The victims are seeking $20 million for damages from sexual and mental abuse by elders, $20 million for failing to protect children, and another $20 million for breach of duty of care.
      The lawsuit is expected to take years to wind its way through the courts. If you believe you qualify to join the class action suit, you can reach out at www.mcst.ca.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Recourse to secular courts
      Religious laws apply to a believer's spiritual life. They don't trump Canada's Criminal Code, civil law or other statutes. 
      Sometimes, secular courts are even called upon to judge whether a faith-based decision is fair.
      On Nov. 2, the Supreme Court of Canada will hear from an 
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  a decision made by a Jehovah's Witnesses' judicial committee. Elders disfellowshipped — or expelled — Randy Wall when they decided the Calgary man was not sufficiently repentant for two drunken incidents where he allegedly verbally abused his wife.
      This decision by elders of the congregation required Wall's wife and children to shun him. Wall, a real estate agent, alleges the shunning caused him to lose a large number of Jehovah's Witnesses clients. Courts are sometimes are asked to judge the fairness of a religious rule or decision. The Supreme Court of Canada has agreed to hear the case of a Jehovah's Witness who was expelled for alleged verbal abuse of his wife. (Chris Wattie/Canadian Press)
      In 2007, 
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  who took action against her ex-husband for refusing to grant her a religious Jewish divorce, known as a get. "The consequences to women deprived of a get and loyal to their faith are severe," Justice Rosalie Abella wrote.
      "They may not remarry within their faith, even though civilly divorced. If they do remarry, children from a second civil marriage are considered illegitimate and restricted from practising their religion."
      Full article: 
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.