....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Elders resist this because they are not trying to make their very own disciples. 

I believe how more practical reason for such "resisting" would be in this: If you give advice to someone, you bear responsibility for content of advice if person implements it in own life situation and things go bad. 

[Witness]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Well well well. A 22lbs produce pack from the USDA. Apparantly all non-profits received a large supply to distribute. I’m very grateful. Elders distributed to the congregation members. But will this become a—gasp!— ‘Go to Donald’ type of thing?

HOW IT WORKS:

https://www.ams.usda.gov/publications/content/farmers-families-food-box-program-faqs

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I believe how more practical reason for such "resisting" would be in this: If you give advice to someone, you bear responsibility for content of advice if person implements it in own life situation and things go bad. 

Of course. Obviously. What!—you think it is right that Christians should be followers of men? I think you mutter just for the sake of muttering.

God’s laws and principles are to be found in the Bible. That is where the guidance and boundaries are. That is where members are to go so as to grow spiritually. The hope is that they should grow to maturity, make decisions per God’s laws and principles, and do not just say, “What do you think, Srecko, so I can think just like you?”

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

So @TrueTomHarley never asks anyone's opinion of anything. Oh, hang on, he does actually, he asks the GB / CCJW / Watchtower opinion of everything by hanging on to their every word..  So that he can think like them. 

But Tom's opinion about Elders seems to be that they are robots programmed to only give GB viewpoints.

As one human being, i was asking another human being their point of view on a matter.  But Tom doesn't seem to like that idea. I think it frightens him. The idea of actually having a personal opinion is something foreign to Tom it seems. 

I wonder how the Governing Body work then ? If they are not allowed to ask other people's opinion. And Elders in a congregation. not allowed to ask other people's opinions. 

Quote "you think it is right that Christians should be followers of men?"

You are a followed of men Tom, you follow your GB and their helpers. 

Quote "God’s laws and principles are to be found in the Bible. That is where the guidance and boundaries are. That is where members are to go so as to grow spiritually."

Yes indeed, and people do go to God's word, and by doing so they prove to themselves that your GB / W/t teachings are wrong.  And one does not have to be a JW to do it either. 

Maybe you would like to discuss with @Space Merchant whether you need to be a JW to obtain guidance from God's word and to grow spiritually. 

Quote " The hope is that they should grow to maturity, make decisions per God’s laws and principles, "

But by CCJW standards those 'decisions made' have to be inline with the GB / JW Org. So basically the decisions are made for you. You see how you follow men. 

 

 

[Space Merchant]

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

Maybe you would like to discuss with @Space Merchant whether you need to be a JW to obtain guidance from God's word and to grow spiritually. 

Learning correctly from the Scriptures is all that someone needs, especially you yourself, from what I can see. Once one understand God's Word, it does not stop there, they continue to progress and build up their faith in the profess. Regardless if someone is a JW, Biblical Unitarian, etc, they can learn too, it is not difficult. When one learn as such, they can develop spiritual growth with ease.

I'm only issue is conspiracy, falsehood and misconception. My biggest issue is Trinitarianism and the later manuscripts that commits to error in Scripture.

That being said, this just shows you assume things without knowing. I believe there is a lesson in the Bible for that, perhaps apply it, and maybe you too can take your own advice and medicine in regards to spiritual growth.

[Space Merchant]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Of course. Obviously. What!—you think it is right that Christians should be followers of men? I think you mutter just for the sake of muttering.

God’s laws and principles are to be found in the Bible. That is where the guidance and boundaries are. That is where members are to go so as to grow spiritually. The hope is that they should grow to maturity, make decisions per God’s laws and principles, and do not just say, “What do you think, Srecko, so I can think just like you?”

What some fail to see is that Jesus gave instruction on how the church is to function. Even if you tell someone this a number of times, as is done on this forum on occasion, they forget very easily, for they do not truly read what is stated. Now, despite these instructions, the men Jesus entrusted, and later other men, were not perfect, therefore, early points in the church's history one can see what was went down, as is with church practices among the early Christians.

That is correct concerning God's Laws, however, some are a bit confused on God's Laws, and, I know Srecko loved this one, how it correlates with Biblical Facts. But yes, when we take up God's Laws and the principles found in Scripture and do well to apply them, we can grow spiritually, and our faith will be strong, but just as a muscle trained by body builders, as is with our faith, we do must continue to train it so it is always growing and staying strong, likewise, as with the Faithful Servant passage, spiritual food and milk is gain through that network as well.

That being said, I do not know how anyone can think as him, granted, I am still flabbergasted by the last decision with him regarding Ba'laam, even prior to my ministry tours with some folk, that notion was still absurd in all sense.

All in all, the core of it all is understanding God's Word, what it means, and how to apply it.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Quote "That being said, this just shows you assume things without knowing."

@Space Merchant  I assumed that you are not a JW and that you have a close relationship with God through Christ. 

I also assumed that TTH believes that a person can only serve God through the CCJW 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Quote @Space Merchant  "What some fail to see is that Jesus gave instruction on how the church is to function."

In the 1st Century there was one Christian religion, as it should still be, but it isn't. 

Now there are many different 'Christian' religions each with their own 'leaders'. 

If I'm right in my thinking, your religion is more tolerant of others, but the CCJW is not. 

You seem more tolerant of some other religions than JWs would be, because JWs are told there is only one way to serve God, and that is through the CCJW.  

 

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Of course. Obviously. What!—you think it is right that Christians should be followers of men? I think you mutter just for the sake of muttering.

God’s laws and principles are to be found in the Bible. That is where the guidance and boundaries are. That is where members are to go so as to grow spiritually. The hope is that they should grow to maturity, make decisions per God’s laws and principles, and do not just say, “What do you think, Srecko, so I can think just like you?”

Why do you think that i was "attack" your thought about:  Elders resist this because they are not trying to make their very own disciples. 

I didn't. It is just fine if they have this positive attitude. Nevertheless, if they have to be role-models of faith, to be imitated from non-elders members, than it can be said how there is a "little danger" of following the men. Even in general positive matters.

Because, i guess how every individual need to build own relation to god, and by that specific, individualized, original, unique way to god's hearth and friendship. I used word "friendship" purposely, because WT publication "pushing" this sort of relationship between members and god as something that have to be established. Of course, it is interesting to understand how god is in position to chose his friend, not we. Even in Abraham situation, he become His friend not because Abraham chose god, but opposite, god chose him. Also, between so many faithful people in the past, who loved god till death, only for one human is reported as been god's friend. (Do not confuse with idea: JHVH was Abraham's friend) ??!! Something to think about, isn't it? :)))  

Well, if somebody have ambition to not "follow" other individuals and/or organization, and/or elders in that organization, he/she have to establish specific "relationship" or if you like "friendship" with ONLY one person, or at least two; Jesus and JHVH. Because Jesus is the name given to people to get close to JHVH. Here we see another WTJWorg omission. They speaking about "friendship"  with JHVH, but "forget" to put Jesus in the center of searching. Because Jesus is The Way to Father.

You said well, elders are not worth to be followed, neither GB and WTJWorg. Because that is what is all about.  :))

[Witness]

16 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

 Also, between so many faithful people in the past, who loved god till death, only for one human is reported as been god's friend. (Do not confuse with idea: JHVH was Abraham's friend) ??!! Something to think about, isn't it? :)))  

Yes, it is interesting that only Abraham was "voiced" as God's  friend.  Yet, His expressions of love, especially for "Jacob"/Zion,  is stated all over the Bible.  Deut 7:6-9; 1 Kings 10:9; Ps 47:4

[Space Merchant]

33 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Quote @Space Merchant  "What some fail to see is that Jesus gave instruction on how the church is to function."

In the 1st Century there was one Christian religion, as it should still be, but it isn't. 

We know of the 1st Century church, the point of which you missed is the instruction. Pay attention.

33 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Now there are many different 'Christian' religions each with their own 'leaders'. 

And your point? The churches of old, likewise, as is with what happen 325AD and beyond.

33 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

If I'm right in my thinking, your religion is more tolerant of others, but the CCJW is not. 

Right in your thinking? I haven't see anything from you concerning Biblical Unitarianism. If so, give some insight because I see nothing of the sort from you.

33 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

You seem more tolerant of some other religions than JWs would be, because JWs are told there is only one way to serve God, and that is through the CCJW.  

It is not about tolerance. It is about cutting through conspiracy and misinformation, granted this forum was a controversial setting for speaking such things as is with church history.

I do the same with Islam, hence I destroy conspiracy with factual fact in said sense. As is with Judaism.

If you haven't notice, I study religion.

There IS one way to serve God, and as pointed out in the past, said path not many is aware of it, and or on that path, trying to get there.

  

42 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Quote "That being said, this just shows you assume things without knowing."

@Space Merchant  I assumed that you are not a JW and that you have a close relationship with God through Christ. 

I also assumed that TTH believes that a person can only serve God through the CCJW 

And yet your other remark said otherwise. But this is true of you, your assumptions get the better of you, even when when the Bible speaks the truth.

 

[Space Merchant]

1 minute ago, Witness said:

Yes, it is interesting that only Abraham was "voiced" as God's  friend.  Yet, His expressions of love, especially for "Jacob"/Zion,  is stated all over the Bible.  Deut 7:6-9; 1 Kings 10:9; Ps 47:4

It is wise to understand as to why this was spoken of regarding Abraham. In Scripture this was noted several times. That is also true, but one should not be confusing both concepts.