Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Perhaps you are also misunderstanding Furuli's new book if you have aquired one. Therefore, the Watchtower was promoting the 6000 years in the mid-1970's not a false hope that continues to be a false talking point.

This is funny. Let tell us please, when and how will WT stop to promote "overlapping generation" scheme (very connected to "the end of World" ideology as was the 1975 too), and start to point to some individuals in organization who were over zeal in their attempts, how to explain and prolong life to "Generation of 1914" failed doctrine ?  

[Srecko Sostar]

14 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I presume you have every paper copy of every magazine from 1966 through 1975, to prove your point. 

Other wise you have no proof. That one article proves nothing. The CCJW back track all the time. 

I think Cesar just skiped magazines from previous period, from, let say 1968 onward :)). 

[TrueTomHarley]

7 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Binged two seasons last year.

I feel so low-class. My wife and I have rediscovered Perry Mason.

The show is historically accurate, though. There were cars with such tail fins. Last night Perry impaled the villain on one of them just after he confessed and tried to flee the courtroom.

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Yes, the speculation, there were several misinformed witnesses that didn't understand what the 6000 years meant.

In those years they, JW's, understand what was normal to understand according to "accurate knowledge" of those time. "One day" is 7000 years. Human existence of 6000 years will end in 1975. After that period of 6000 years, 1000 years kingdom will rule and 7th Day will be closed with renewed Paradise on Earth. Clear and simple reasoning for organization in those period of time. And now you said that is wrong. :)))

 Yes, organization know that same thing NOW, too. But then, in 1960'es "the truth" was different, not so advanced as today. Light lamp was under the table.:)))

[Ann O'Maly]

9 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

That being said, the whole "putting a boy in a dress" concept is jarring,

Hm. Do you find "putting girls in pants" jarring? Do kilt-wearing Scotsmen and men in kimonos disturb you too? 

[JW Insider]

On 5/26/2020 at 8:54 PM, César Chávez said:

Perhaps you are also misunderstanding Furuli's new book if you have aquired one. Therefore, the Watchtower was promoting the 6000 years in the mid-1970's not a false hope that continues to be a false talking point.

I agree that, by 1974, F.W.Franz was ready to start "walking back" the expectations he had been speculating about. When I came to Bethel in 1976, there was already a lot of whispering that FWF had lost some of his former glory as the Oracle. He had become the "King Saul" when people began to say: “When King Saul dies then things will change.” And this was in large part because he had spent so many years "doubling down" on 1975, whenever he was questioned about it. 

In 1976 F.W.Franz had produced a book called "Our Incoming World Government - God's Kingdom." It was released in 1977. There were whispers that this was his way of getting "back in the saddle" because it contained the kind of information that no one else at Bethel was supposedly capable of, or would dare try to produce. I have a very early copy of this book from one of the Bethel proofreaders (a sister). It contains a curious artifact in the margin, which always reminds me of how this book was seen by some Bethelites in 1977. It's just the simple question in red pencil: "ask?."  It wouldn't mean much to most anyone else, but this was probably the first book ever written by FWF that was sometimes "scoffed" at within the Bethel walls. I heard some of that scoffing myself. The question in the margin was not part of that scoffing. The book was scoffed at for statements like the following:

*** go chap. 8 p. 137 par. 36 Marked Days During the “Time of the End” ***
According to the Bible, those 1,290 days are the equivalent of three lunar years and seven lunar months. According to the lunar calendar, January 18, 1919, fell on Shebat 17, 1919. Three lunar years from then would lead up to Shebat 17, 1922, or February 15, 1922. Seven lunar months counted from that would end with Elul 16, 1922, or at sundown, September 9, 1922

Even fellow members of the Governing Body, at least two, and probably four or more (D.S./A.S./E.C./R.F) thought that the 1975 failure would be a chance to "start from scratch" with all these dates from 1918, 1919, 1922, etc. It was D.S. who used the exact expression that we should "just start from scratch" on chronology.

If you listened to FWF at Bethel breakfast you could see he was trying to regain his "throne" as the respected Oracle. And he was still taking subtle swipes at the idea of a Governing Body, as he had been doing since 1972 or so, and most directly in the September 1975 talk that The Librarian referenced above. Note how FWF, for the first time, changes Jehovah's title to "Governor" in Chapter 2, which is called "The Governor Who Knows the End from the Beginning."

*** go chap. 2 pp. 33-34 pars. 36-37 The Governor Who Knows the End from the Beginning ***
He . . .  with himself as the Supreme Governor. . . . Hence he is “the One telling from the beginning the finale.” He is the Governor who knows the end from the beginning. . . .
   In the very book with which the Bible begins, at Genesis 3:15, the Almighty Governor of all creation made known his basic thought . . . . In the very book with which the Bible ends, at Revelation 11:15-18, the rightful Governor over all mankind gives prophetic description of his take-over of his long-suspended governorship . . .

Other examples from the book are typical of the kind of writing from FWF, that even the proofreaders would likely have been hesitant to question if it looked like a possible mistake. I mention this because the following quote is the location in the proofreader's copy which has a red pencil question mark by the number 605, with the word "ask?" in the margin.

*** go chap. 3 p. 39 par. 4 Predicted World Changes up till God’s Kingdom ***
Human society so deeply divided politically as it is today, and has been since World War I, was not forevisioned indeed by shortsighted man. But are we aware that this political state of human affairs was prophetically illustrated more than 2,580 years ago, or about the year 605 before our Common Era?

I don't know if she ever asked. But you can just see the wheels turning in her head: 2520 prior to Oct 1914 was Tishri 607, so 2,580 years from 607 was Oct 1974. So Tishri 605 was 2578 years prior to Oct 1974, and this book is being proofread in late 1976 or early 1977. This would mean that if the Daniel 2 dream (referred to here) was very late in 605, getting close to 604, then this book might potentially be released a couple of months "less than", not, "more than" 2,580 years ago. No big deal. But wouldn't it be better to say "about 2,580 years ago" instead of "more than"? And why be so teasingly pedantic in the first place?

But where did he (FWF) even get the date 605 for the Daniel 2 dream? 

 The idea is from Daniel 2 about the second year of Nebuchadnezzar:

(Daniel 2:1) . . .In the second year of his kingship, Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar had a number of dreams. . .

This is for another topic, but it's all about the controversy over whether Daniel would have begun counting from one of the major exiles, or from his own exile, if different, or from the normal way of counting the rulership of a king. Note the discrepancies below:

*** w00 5/15 p. 12 par. 17 Pay Attention to God’s Prophetic Word for Our Day ***
During the second year of Nebuchadnezzar’s reign as world ruler of Bible prophecy (606/605 B.C.E.), God sent him a terrifying dream. According to Daniel chapter 2 . . .

*** it-2 p. 457 Nabonidus ***
Discussing events in the 20th year of Nebuchadnezzar (Nisan 605-Nisan 604 B.C.E.)

And this is based on the WTS chronology system, and doesn't even take into account the actual date of Nebuchadnezzar's reign, matching the Biblical record, and based on thousands of pieces of archaeological and historical evidence:

*** kc p. 188 Appendix to Chapter 14 ***
Later writers quote Berossus as saying that after the battle of Carchemish Nebuchadnezzar extended Babylonian influence into all Syria-Palestine and, when returning to Babylon (in his accession year, 605 B.C.E.), he took Jewish captives into exile.

In fact, FWF's 1977 book, just a bit further down from the 2,580 quote above, spells out the standard WTS chronology, except that I don't know where FWF got the info that Nebuchadnezzar was part of the overthrow of "632" seven years years before his WTS accession year AND twenty-seven years before his actual accession year. The first mention anyone knows of for Nebuchadnezzar is about 607 BCE (or 627 WTS dating) which is about 5 years after the assumption below:

*** go chap. 3 pp. 48-49 pars. 25-26 Predicted World Changes up till God’s Kingdom ***
In 632 B.C.E. Nebuchadnezzar shared in overthrowing the Assyrian World Power and thereby set up the Neo-Babylonian Empire, which ranked as the Third World Power of Bible record.—Nahum 2:8 through 3:18; Zephaniah 2:13.
About twenty-five years later, after Emperor Nebuchadnezzar was used as Jehovah’s instrument to destroy unfaithful Jerusalem, the prophet Daniel’s words applied: “Into [your] hand he [the God of heaven] has given, wherever the sons of mankind are dwelling, the beasts of the field and the winged creatures of the heavens, and [you] he has made ruler over all of them.” (Daniel 2:38) This was the case, because, with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians in 607 B.C.E., a typical kingdom of Jehovah God ceased to exist on earth.

FWF gave indications in 1977 and 1978 that he was not reacting well to the push-back on this 1977 book. His "morning worship" comments began to take smart-aleck  pot-shots at those who were not lapping up the "food in due season." The attitude was similar to the time when he expressed his anger at those who thought Jesus was the mediator of every "Tom, Dick, and Harry."   

[JW Insider]

On 5/26/2020 at 8:54 PM, César Chávez said:

Perhaps you are also misunderstanding Furuli's new book if you have aquired one. Therefore, the Watchtower was promoting the 6000 years in the mid-1970's not a false hope that continues to be a false talking point.

There is no misunderstanding of Furuli here. He distances himself very well from the 1975 speculation. Not completely, but he apparently understood it a little better than some District Overseers in the United States. I'm wondering if part of it wasn't the understanding of the verb modal "would." He pins a lot of the correct understanding on that English word. In the United States there may have been more people who read the word "would" as having a slightly stronger meaning.

I have also used the words, "the time is short," in talks as a circuit and district
overseer. But I have never asked the audience to stop with this or that because the time
is short. As the district overseer from 1972 to 1974, I was the principal speaker at all the
circuit assemblies in Norway, and my talks would naturally influence the view of the
Witnesses regarding the year 1975. In 1966,when the book Life Everlasting in the Freedom
of the Sons of God was published, there was a course for circuit servants at the branch
office. When we discussed the book, I remember that the branch servant said that we
should never say that Armageddon would come in 1975 or before that year, because we
cannot know that. He pointed to some words on page 30 of the book: "It would not be
by mere chance or accident but would be according to the loving purpose of Jehovah
God for the reign of Jesus Christ, 'the Lord of the Sabbath' to run parallel with the
seventh millennium of man's existence." The verb "would" shows that this is a possible
but a hypothetical situation. I still have the notes for my talks, and the viewpoint that I
presented in my talks was as follows: 'We do not know when the end will come. But we
are eager to see if the 6,000 years of man's existence run parallel with the 6,000 years of
Yehowa's day of rest! If we can free some time and do more in the preaching work,
even become full-time preachers, while we are looking at the unfolding of world events
down to 1975, that would be very fine. But we should not commit ourselves to the year
1975 or another year. But as we do today, we should have balanced plans for ourselves
and our family that go beyond the year 1975, while we live normal lives and serve
Yehowa wholeheartedly.' [emphasis mine]

My uncle who was in Circuit work at the time, got a different sense of the word "would" in his meetings/training which came from the D.O. in his case. C.Chavez son of D.O. (aka Allen) and scholar JW have both claimed "jp" correctly ties JABrown GT to 2520, It doesn't. Yet, actual parallel zw. 7th mil and JC's 1k yr reign? No connex!

[ComfortMyPeople]

At the beginning of Furuli's book there is a paragraph referring to a certain letter sent to {the congregations? the elders?} The paragraph in question says:

The letter of 15 June 2018 changed this situation:
We would like to inform you of an updated policy with regard to
whether a Christian may administer a blood transfusion if he is directed
to do so by a superior. The previous policy was that it would be a matter
for a personal, conscientious decision whether to obey such an order.
However, after carefully reviewing the matter, the Governing Body has
determined that administering such a transfusion is so closely linked
with an unscriptural practice that one unquestionably becomes an
accomplice in a wrong practice. Therefore, it would not be appropriate
for a Christian to administer a blood transfusion under any
circumstance.—Gen. 9:4; Acts 15:28, 29.4

I would like to mention that I cannot find this letter. I have looked again in the letters to the elders section of our branch in Spain, but I have not found it. I am not saying at all that Furuli is not truthful, only that I cannot find this letter. Maybe someone could help me out ...

 

[Arauna]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

My wife and I have rediscovered

I just watch old movies for entertainment - safer than modern stuff. They have better characterization and plots as well. These days many stories are superficial and use special effects for interest.

[TrueTomHarley]

5 minutes ago, Arauna said:

These days many stories are superficial and use special effects for interest.

Sigh....tell me about it. See: ‘Pop Goes to the Movies’

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2007/06/pop_goes_to_the_1.html

[TrueTomHarley]

21 hours ago, JW Insider said:

the book gives evidence of rushed last-minute organization and some sloppy editing. There is a lot of unnecessary repetition, and a couple of mistakes and typos.

This is reassuring to me. My books have suffered from this, too, and one of them positively reeked with errors, which took forever to ferret out. Several times I announced that all corrections had been made, only to find more blips.

Not long ago, I purchased a homeopathy books from someone supposedly renowned. I was amazed as how slipshod was the formatting, and how much beneficial editing could have been done but wasn’t.

It is a sign of the ebook times, and I am reassured that even Rulf the scholar is afflicted with it. Ideally, you proof a work with professionals, but that is pricey and with ebooks being so cheap, with no guarantee of sales, either you do it yourself or ask well-meaning (but essentially hobbyist) friends to help you out. It is a far more daunting task than it first appears to do it yourself, because you tend to read, not what is there, but what you recall being there. You can do tolerably well for a short article, but if we are speaking of an entire book—good l**k on that!

I even face an additional challenge. If I ask brothers who might be in position to help me out to do so, many will be unconfortable with the material and duck out. It’s frustrating. If I wrote a book about how the Easter Bunny was pagan, they would be lined up 5-deep to proof it, but if I confine myself to what seems more interesting, it is not that way.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Quote @Anna 

Again, there has to be organizational leadership in order for an organization to function, and there even has to be spiritual leadership, leading by example. But is it right for one man, or group of men, to have exclusive monopoly on the INTERPRETATION of scripture, but more importantly should this group have the right to insist that everyone accepts only their interpretation, and if not, they may be denied membership, or if they are already members it will be counted as "treason" and they will be ex-communicated (in our society we no longer chop peoples heads off) and ordered to live like outcasts, outlaws, banished and shunned by the whole community as they know it, including relatives. It sounds to me like something from my movie. Is this the model Jesus had in mind? I repeat, as a group, the GB are untouchable because they have enough support from "subjects". Remove that support and they are "nothing". But didn't Jesus say we should support one another, and come to the aid of our brothers?

Can we examine this paragraph please. 

1. Organisational leadership. Over practical things yes. 

2. Spiritual leadership. This can only be done by those who are guided directly by God, through Christ, through Holy spirit. It creates a problem when men decide for themselves that THEY are God's spokespersons. 

3. Monopoly on interpretation of scripture. The problem seems to have been that 'men' have given false interpretations. And those 'men' have made themselves false prophets. 

4. Their interpretation. To me this is a dictatorship. And if you add the fact that 'their interpretation' of scripture will differ to suit their own needs, then it becomes an insult to God and Christ. 

5. Treason / D/fed. To my mind this confirms the dictatorship.  Wrongful use of excommunicating 

6. Live like Outcasts / Shunned by all JWs.  This is one reason I think JWs should be issued with a 'Rule book' which they should be allowed to read BEFORE getting baptised. As a person that is 'suffering' such I would like to read it in the rules to see what it actually says, and to see what scriptures it is based on.  

7. Is this the model Jesus had in mind ?  Having the 'mind of Christ'.  This is where I mention time and time again, about lack of spirituality. 

8. the GB are untouchable because they have enough support from "subjects" Wrong, It is not support it is fear. Just look at what you have mentioned above, it proves fear.  It reminds me of the German Army. I don't think those men wanted to kill so many people, but they were frightened not to. To some outsiders it would look as if they were supporting Hitler, but in reality the soldiers were frightened of him. So it is with the GB, they may look to be supported, but the brothers and sisters live in fear of being disfellowshipped which is like death to them. 

9.  Remove that support and they are "nothing. I've been saying this for a long time. If congregants  stopped their donations completely, and stopped attending KH meetings, then the GB 'might' start to have a re-think. Doubtful though as their hearts seem to have hardened against their own people, just like the Jewish religious leaders.  

10. Come to the aid of our brothers. The GB have stopped acting like brothers. They have exalted themselves above all of God's servants. Congregants are now frightened of the Elders and more so of the GB. The GB have made up 'rules of men' and 'traditions of men'. 

11. But didn't Jesus say we should support one another, Re-read your paragraph. Do you see any support from the GB ? Or do you see heavy loads put on congregants shoulders and the GB not lifting one finger to help ? 

There are Anointed ones Earthwide. Almighty God will use them when HE is ready to use them. Either the CCJW will be cleansed and re-organised, or, God, through Christ,will form another organisation.