Another jw splinter group.

[Matthew9969]

I just curious of your opinions. Seeing as how there is becoming a great divide of opinions among Jehovah's Witnesses regarding the actions of the governing body do you see a possible future where there will be another splinter group of jw's coming up with their own organization. Kind of like when Russel split off from the 7th day, then the jw's split off from the bible students, Armstrong split off from the jw's and got his own following, etc....?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

When the true Anointed appear then yes. Either God through Christ will clean out the CCJW, or God through Christ will form a new 'religion'. I hate the word religion, but it's what people use. But the true Inspired Anointed must appear first. 

In my opinion God cannot use the CCJW as it is. The Child Sexual Abuse problem is still not properly sorted out. The Shunning policy is totally wrong. This threat of being in the 'Final part of the Final days' is horrible and suggests that Christ is delaying his arrival..  The lie that one has to be a baptised JW to be 'saved' at Armageddon is wrong.  The GB setting themselves up as the F&DS and saying that all the other Anointed are NOT, is just those 8 men exalting themselves. Luke 14 v 11.

So if God and/or Christ is wanting to use the CCJW, the Org will need a good clean out first. 

For my part I do hope that the CCJW is cleaned out and turned to pure worship. But the GB would have to be replaced to do that. They could maybe step down and repent, I don't know.. That is between them and God or Christ.. 

[JW Insider]

6 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Russel split off from the 7th day

You probably meant when Russell split off from some Second Adventists who were already ex-Millerite Second Adventists before Russell met them. They were already a mix of several eclectic beliefs, but far from 7th Day Adventists who were themselves a parallel split from Millerite Second Adventism (but with more continuity than other splits).

6 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

then the jw's split off from the bible students

This one is truer than most of us will admit.

6 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Armstrong split off from the jw's

Wikipedia: The Church of God (Seventh Day) represents a line of Sabbatarian Adventists that rejected the visions and teachings of Ellen G. White before the formation of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1863.

[JW Insider]

6 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

do you see a possible future where there will be another splinter group of jw's coming up with their own organization.

I think that JWs are pretty much the end of the line for most people who leave JWs these days. Most won't go back to any other church in a serious way, even if they have a history with another church, or relatives in that church. A high number will probably become stay at home Christians, and a large number will probably become agnostic, or apathetic. 

If you are thinking about whether persons like Furuli will end up dragging a few hangers-on with him in case he is DFd, I would guess it would only be in Norway, and probably not pull even 100 persons away from the WTS. (Not directly at least.) But Furuli will likely want to take the R.Franz route and just quietly allow Bible study among friends. That won't create a splinter group. A few more will leave apathetically because he will have created nagging questions that some will not have the wherewithal to deal with.  Norway is already saturated with atheists and agnostics, and new churches don't grow very well. Old churches are mostly just for birth, marriage and funeral ceremonies.

[JJJ-AUSTRALIA]

I agreed with jw insider this will be the end of the road for most JWs, i dont think many will go and form a splinter group after the huge disappointment of the current watchtower. 

Speaking of myself and my wife we have had enough of religion, to actually join another group. 

We will probably just live a normal life away from religion and try to be a children of God by our own. 

[Srecko Sostar]

8 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Either God through Christ will clean out the CCJW,

You open interesting theme.

WTJWorg have using specific wording, terminology for own history - cleaning, sifting. This applies to the organization, the system, as a whole. This have to include GB, Lawyers who work for society, elders, MS, Management who run all legal entities under various names, and members of course.

If top management aka GB as group who supposedly is connected with god through Jesus in  a special way, and as Gerrit Loesch  explained on TV, Jesus show Trust to Them (here we see a substitution of the thesis, instead of GB saying how they trust in Jesus, it turns out that Jesus trusts in GB). All this has its roots in the 1914-1919 idea of inspection from the sky, sorry, Heaven.

In one moment we see how exist two sort of "cleansing". One is self cleansing of individuals like Russell and his friends, who were unsatisfied with religion they belong. The WT publication i have read, say nothing about individual, personal need for "cleansing", but how Russell was not satisfied with religious teachings of own church. And that is impetus, that triggered his rejecting of established system he was participated and inherit from parents. Similar is today with many people who become JW's. Most of them join to religion because of "wrong teachings" that exists in their old church, or "promises about better life in the future". Few of them have extra individual needs because they feel guilty about own state of hearth, sinful behavior and similar reason.

In that aspect i don't see how one massive system, organization, and now this is organization with millions of members, can make any sort of "self cleansing" inside this firmly established system. 

Also i don't see why would God and Jesus have extra interest to "clean" WTJWorg system. This is earthly organization as any other religious (or non religious) organization.

If God would have interest to clean WTJWorg, He maybe have same reason to clean Adventist, Catholic, Mormon, Amish and any other Christian or non Christian religion. Because, major of all that people want to believe in God and worship him.  

I believe how God like, would use more personal approach and give His attention to person not organization.

Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. Job 14 4

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Matthew 19 v 26

But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

Matthew 19 v 26

But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24  Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” 25  When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” 26  Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

In this context we see it is conversation between two individuals. Both of them have some expectations from each other. Jesus said to young man: "follow me". Jesus didn't go into explanation how he must join organization, congregation, apostles or similar. He just made one and only precondition, follow ME (in literal way if we going  20 century back, or what is more important in spiritual way. Because even in case of young man and Jesus, his following him literally would be for very limited time - Jesus died soon) . And this is what God can make to be possible - making influence on person to be ready to "leave all" and join Jesus' teachings and example.

That, among other things, make me believe how organization is not precondition for following Jesus. And to use R. Franz terminology, idea and reasoning how "God must have organization", and "you must be part of JHVH organization to be saved", is doctrine that captures JW leaders and members.They are not able to think outside this captive concept. They based their reasoning on;  old Jew organizational national kings ruler system, and 1st century Judeo-Christian movement as role model and proof how God was always had organization of some sort.

I don't see problem with "organization/organizing" as way for accomplish some task. What is worrying is the impossibility/inability of individuals and the whole group of JW's to imagine how with God all things are possible, even that He is in capacity to have people on Earth who are not members of organized Religion, Non-profit Organization, or any Legal Entity that need to be confirmed and recognized  by secular authority.  If we take old Jew Kingdom or 1st century Congregation as historic examples, both of them existing without permission of other historical actors around them. 

Do we really need to believe and accept how earthly organization is really only and best what God have, to be able to gather people who will follow Jesus? And if we take serious JW's claim how their Organization is exactly it, than this is God's third organized system and His third try/attempt to establish True Worship on Earth.

Third time lucky, this time? If WTJWorg is "anti-type" model of their "type" models before, than future is not looking good. Old Jew's Kingdom ended in total fall, spiritually and literally. 1st Congregation ended in apostasy.  

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

That, among other things, make me believe how organization is not precondition for following Jesus.

I don't see problem with "organization/organizing" as way for accomplish some task.

@Srecko Sostar In my opinion, The Organisation of CCJW is not a precondition for serving God through Jesus. But as you say organisation is good for accomplishing tasks. So there has to be a balance. 

Do we really need to believe and accept how earthly organization is really only and best what God have, to be able to gather people who will follow Jesus? 

As you mentioned, the Nation of Israel was the first way that God organised humans. But I think it's purpose was to bring Jesus to 'earth' through that line (King David). 

The 1st century Christians were organised by Jesus. Sent out in two's etc and the forming of congregations. But God / Jesus used the Apostle Paul to write the letters to those congregations, not the 12 Apostles. So in my opinion there was NO 1st century GB. 

However it would make sense to have some form of organised Organisation to preach the 'Good News' earthwide. As you said, to accomplish some task. But it needs to be organised into sections / departments. Spiritual things need to be separate from material things. And the spiritual things must have the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit, otherwise we end up with the situation we have with the GB, false prophecy. 

Hence i believe there will be a true Anointed group of people earthwide to lead God's people. I don't think they need to be all gathered in one building or in one country. We have this wonderful internet system we are using, and the Anointed could use it to communicate this way around the Earth.  Each of the Anointed would understand situations in their own country. So it might be possible for each Anointed to apply different 'rules or restrictions' relating to their own country. (The men having a beard thing, might be a silly example, but in some countries it might have been offensive, in other countries it was no problem, so each Anointed in their own country would have known if it was a serious problem or not). Some things do not affect one's service to God through Christ, they are a matter of conscience. Those things should be left to conscience and no rules made. The preaching work could be organised by the Anointed in their own country. I don't think they need so much literature / books as they print. Surely a good Christian should only need the Bible. ( The Apostles only had the Hebrew writings ). I think it could all be so much simpler. Meetings could be purely to give praise to God, not to study the ideas of men through a magazine. I also think that a true organisation would be more loving and show mercy, not only to it's members, but also to those in need local to them. Although Jesus had two main purposes to fulfil, to teach the Jews and try to bring them back to God, and, to give his life on behalf of others, He also spent a while being kind and helpful to others. 

So an organisation yes, but one run totally different to the way the CCJW is run now.... . 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

So it might be possible for each Anointed to apply different 'rules or restrictions' relating to their own country. (The men having a beard thing, might be a silly example, but in some countries it might have been offensive, in other countries it was no problem, so each Anointed in their own country would have known if it was a serious problem or not).

I wonder what is difference between this two words: rule and doctrine (as part of JW's lexis and vocabulary context)? In example you gave, "beard ban thing", is very well possible to see how Centralized Body in US Bethel made decision (i suppose from Rutherford time) how beard is not for JW's Christians because that would not make them to be seen by "worldly people" as True God's servants. In their attempt to be United and Unison, as characteristic that is  part of Universal View on Organization originated by God. By that, all individuals who are part of such Organization must have clear and general and only one standpoint worldwide about this or any other subject, matter.

And exactly this moment, how all JW's need to have same standpoint about one matter making this "rule" to be doctrine and not just simple rule for some situations that is not obligation for people in other situations. But again, who made "rules" about next thing; what situations are acceptable and what situations are not acceptable to "break a rule"? 

Is/was "beard ban issue" part of recommendation, or rule, or doctrine? 

When congregational elders make decision, according to GB guidance (here we have another terminology- guidance), how brother with beard are not suitable for having public talk or to be in any capacity in congregation or even preaching service, than "beard issue" is not just recommendation or rule but comes to be doctrine as part of JW's Unique Teachings that making this religion to be unique and separate from all other organization and religions.  

In WTJWorg world, members can't be sure about own lexis and meaning of particular word. Because, people would expect how doctrines/teachings are based on firm fundament aka Bible, and will last forever and unchanged. But in this Organization recommendations and rules are of same value as doctrines or to be said Bible doctrines (principles) are put on same low level as rules and recommendations - they can be rejected or changed or molded into other forms depends of  what will pleased WTJWorg Administration.    

Librarian released topics how beard are now allowed for JW members. This confirms how "beard" is part of WTJWorg doctrinal problem.

JW’s are now allowed to have beards and publicly preach....

By The Librarian, March 21, 2017 in Topics

 

New Light! - Beards are now ok.

By The Librarian, May 27, 2016 in Topics

 

[John Houston]

When God had a people chosen on earth they were his organization, am I to believe that line of reasoning? I have to because Jehovah does not change, what works for him in heaven does so on earth. How many carried the mantra 'the Word' in Heavenly realm? Only one, right? Were all the spirit sons seraphs, cherubs? They each had their status and assignments, none doing no more than the other was assigned to do by Jehovah. We may balk at those assigned to lead us while here on earth, because we are in those positions, but Moses led the nation of Israel not the entire nation of people. There were 12 tribes, but only 1 that was assigned to care for the spiritual needs of the entire nation of Israel. What if the other 11 raised up and debated on wanted that assignment? But those even of the very family had assignments, yet wanted to overstep what was meted to them; how were they dealt with?

Those 8 men lead, guide us on a path none here could, nor anyone one else could, so why the beef? One has to be humble, could Peter handle such a global assignment with what he knew then, today? No! He would need much help, just as those older men took care of the spiritual things and let others care for the mundane affairs. But can that very same attitude be taken with the what belongs to Christ now? Again, No! They have to be hands on in all what is going on. Do they make mistakes? Yes, because they are still imperfect human beings, their anointing did not shield them from that. Just as it didn't with the apostles. They are management not owners, so stop thinking for the owners, they will handle everything, the merchandise has not been damaged beyond repair.

[Srecko Sostar]

30 minutes ago, John Houston said:

Those 8 men

https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/87370-furulis-new-e-book-my-beloved-religion-and-the-governing-body/