Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

CCJW.  Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the GREEK Scriptures.

Revelation 5 v 10.

From the Greek it reads ..... and they are reigning upon the earth.

But in the NWT it reads  ........ and they are to rule as kings over the earth.

In most translations I have looked at it reads as :  'on the earth'.   Why do the GB / Writing Dept translate it as Over the earth ? 

[JJJ-AUSTRALIA]

Because it suits their ideology and also because the translators of the NWT werent scholars.

[Evacuated]

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

 'on the earth'

Check Eph 4:6

[Witness]

The anointed are the new creation. (2 Cor 5:17; 1 Pet 1:23)They will reign on the earth as priests and kings, as well as have access to "heaven'.  That is why they are a "new creation", both human and angel.  (1 Cor 15:44)   God's word is reliable and this is backed up by the promise given to Jacob (Israel) and to his seed:

"Now Jacob went out from Beersheba and went toward Haran. 11 So he came to a certain place and stayed there all night, because the sun had set. And he took one of the stones of that place and put it at his head, and he lay down in that place to sleep. 12 Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder was set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.

13 And behold, the Lord stood above it and said: “I am the Lord God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and your descendants. 14 Also your descendants shall be as the dust of the earth; you shall spread abroad to the west and the east, to the north and the south; and in you and in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed. 15 Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have spoken to you.”

16 Then Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, “Surely the Lord is in this place, and I did not know it.” 17 And he was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven!”

If the priests are to teach the people (Mal 2:7), how can they do so if they are not among them?  The WT has devised a conception of the "144,000" as clones, men, with beards, looking down from heaven unable to enjoy their inheritance. To me, this is Satan making jest of God's new creation.   Since the WT has "trampled" the anointed as it is, why not fill every JW mind with as many lies as they can, about the role of the anointed?  Why not wipe away the individuality and personalities of His priests, not only now as an unrecognizable "nation" presently, but by creating a blasphemous picture of the 144,000 looking exactly the same -  in face, clothing and sex.  Sheesh.  They might as well be some sort of heavenly robot.  

Jesus also spoke of this ladder:

And He said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.”   John 1:51

Mal 2:7 states that the priests are God's messengers.  "Angel" means messenger.  Those ascending and descending on this stairway, are part of  the Bride of Christ that "comes down from heaven" with Jesus, to rule/teach all of Gods children. 

Jesus returns to the earth with his "cloud" of witnesses - "Israel". The "great cloud of witnesses" are God's chosen witnesses - "Israel", not every JW in the organizaiton.  Mark 14:62; 13:26; Heb 12:1; Isa 43: 1,10;  Matt 24:30

Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since [e]the world began.   Acts 3:19-21

who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”   Acts 1:11

Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.  Rev 21:2

He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.  Rev 3:12

The temple/New Jerusalem, made with "living stones", will be with mankind on earth.  They will also have their time in heaven.  So, "ascending and descending" between heaven and earth is necessary for God's kings/priests to serve Him, Jesus and God's children.  

We have been indoctrinated with a lie that supports the silencing of the anointed.  The earth presently is Satan's domain.  His enemy is Christ and Christ's brothers.  Why would he allow the truth about them inheriting the earth, to be revealed in the organization where we know the priests of God have been replaced by a large army of elders who have the authority to spiritually judge His chosen people?  (Joel chapter 2)

4 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Check Eph 4:6

I'm trying to understand why you chose that scripture. 

"one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

God's spirit dwells in the anointed heart.  They are His "dwelling"/temple even while on the earth. (1 Cor 3:16,17) They are priests/kings, even while on earth. (1 Pet 2:5,9) God is naturally, "above" everything, in spirit, because He IS spirit.  John 4:24; Ps 139:7,8

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

15 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Check Eph 4:6

God is "over all". 

Human, angels, 144000 are not. Or?

[Space Merchant]

19 hours ago, JJJ-AUSTRALIA said:

Because it suits their ideology and also because the translators of the NWT werent scholars.

Or it just shows you do not understand and or lack the elementary knowledge of Strong's Concordances. Regardless of translation, it is unwise to not check the strongs and go about your own understanding.

20 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

CCJW.  Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the GREEK Scriptures.

Revelation 5 v 10.

From the Greek it reads ..... and they are reigning upon the earth.

But in the NWT it reads  ........ and they are to rule as kings over the earth.

In most translations I have looked at it reads as :  'on the earth'.   Why do the GB / Writing Dept translate it as Over the earth ? 

Granted the other two were shot down on Hebrew and Greek Strongs, I will inform you of the following. Strong's Concordances' purpose is not to provide content or commentary about the Bible, but to provide an index to the Bible. It  allows the reader to find words where they appear in the Bible in a correct matter. This index allows a student of the Bible to refind a phrase and or passage previously studied. It also lets the reader directly compare how the same word may be used elsewhere in the Bible. In this way Strong provides an independent check against translations, and offers an opportunity for greater, and more technically accurate understanding of text.

Revelations 5:10

You stated the following: From the Greek it reads ..... and they are reigning upon the earth. But in the NWT it reads  ........ and they are to rule as kings over the earth.

The Bible that Jehovah's Witnesses use, NWT (dunno which one you are looking at be it org or revised), shows the following:

and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

The reality of this is the fact that, there is no issue with the verse, granted the Strong's line up correctly. It is only a problem if the is no Strong's indication whatsoever.

[1] There is no Strong's Violation

The answer is simple. The word "Over" is under G#1909

Quote

upon
ἐπὶ (epi)
Preposition
Strong's Greek 1909: On, to, against, on the basis of, at.

the
τῆς (tēs)
Article - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

Some more facts:

Quote

Word: epi

Pronounce: ep-ee'

Strongs Number: G1909

Orig: a primary preposition; properly, meaning superimposition (of time, place, order, etc.), as a relation of distribution (with the genitive case), i.e. over, upon, etc.; of rest (with the dative case) at, on, etc.; of direction (with the accusative case) towards, upon, etc.:--about (the times), above, after, against, among, as long as (touching), at, beside, X have charge of, (be-, (where-))fore, in (a place, as much as, the time of, -to), (because) of, (up-)on (behalf of), over, (by, for) the space of, through(-out), (un-)to(-ward), with. In compounds it retains essentially the same import, at, upon, etc. (literally or figuratively).

Use: Preposition

Heb Strong:

1. 1) upon, on, at, by, before
   2) of position, on, at, by, over, against
   3) to, over, on, at, across, against

For this passage, majority of Translations are in agreement with the Strong's concerning this verse [https://biblehub.com/revelation/5-10.htm]

There is no outside notion of the word either.

As for "The" the same thing applies, that is G#3588.

 

On the other side of the spectrum, there are some out there who try to argue a specific word in the Strong's although it can be incorrect, An example would be the young woman vs. virgin usage in a specific verse found in Isaiah. The irony with this instance, virgin isn't part of the Strong's but due to Christian Tradition, they added it granted the citation says it is incorrect. I had a field day with this one too.

That being said, it is only a violation IF it is a different # and or non-existent.

 

I am linking an example I posted a long time ago when this forum was a debate battlegrounds. The below is an example of adding a word in the text that is NOT lining up with the Strong's in a verse:

 

[Space Merchant]

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

God is "over all". 

Human, angels, 144000 are not. Or?

That's G#1909, therefore, no issue as the Strong's stands as fact. As I recall, I told both you and Witness this in the past, for I remember one of you tried to twisted the Greek Strong's regarding darkness, smoke, destroyer, and I believe pit as well. We will leave it at that for I do not want to expose the cracks in your armure manquant de durabilite, in this thread.

That being said, you guys liked to link biblehub, therefore regarding what @Outta Here  mentioned, this is, obviously not to your liking, correct --> https://biblehub.com/ephesians/4-6.htm

It would be wise to sharpen yourself and go to Bible Hub and learn, or simply google Strong's Concordance.

That being said, The Most High is above all, in the heavens and on earth. No one is equal to him and or can surpass him. He is the God of the Christ, he is the God of me, he is the God of you.

@Witness All those verses cited, as pointed out regarding Strong's are correct, but to go around the concordances raises issue. Keep that in mind.

[Evacuated]

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

"over all"

Don't need to puzzle over this surely??

 

[JJJ-AUSTRALIA]

Lol he must have got all the responses from the watchtower, only the watchtower bible translation is correct without any errors... According Space M. 

[Srecko Sostar]

On 6/9/2020 at 4:49 AM, Witness said:

Why not wipe away the individuality and personalities of His priests, not only now as an unrecognizable "nation" presently, but by creating a blasphemous picture of the 144,000 looking exactly the same -  in face, clothing and sex.  Sheesh.  They might as well be some sort of heavenly robot.  

Hybrids. Mixture of angels and humans. 

Perhaps artist want to show Unity and Uniformity. 

I am not sure that i understand explanation, interpretations of some Bible words about this "transformation". Also, if human are created by God to live on Earth, and WT theology said how Catholics or some other religious people not "going" to "heaven" after death because that is false teachings.....why would that be different for some JW class, "anointed"? 

Resurrection is good hope. But to live on Earth. Why would God be in need to have group of people, earthly women and men for living in "heaven" and rule over humankind? And be invisible to their subjects? I would drove some line with Eden and human. God was invisible to Adam and Eve, Abel, Cain .... according to Bible. But they spoke together.  Human heard a Voice.

This is also interesting. If you "see" God you will be dead, but if you "hear" His voice, you will not be dead. ??!! ...

So, according to WT theology; Will they, 144000, speak with humans? Will humans "heard" their voices as Adam, Eve, Abe, Cain did hear God's? Because "voice" is need to be heard for purpose of learning. Human will need to be instructed how to get "perfection" and how to find "true doctrines" without later,  subsequently,  afterwards so called "clarifications". :))

[Space Merchant]

12 hours ago, JJJ-AUSTRALIA said:

Lol he must have got all the responses from the watchtower, only the watchtower bible translation is correct without any errors... According Space M. 

Ignorance is a bliss, no? Actually my sources were from the Strong's Concordances itself (something I take with seriousness). If you can read carefully, you can see I linked a source(s). I didn't include manuscripts because it would seem it would be a bit of a handful for you.

That being said, the correction is not by translation. The source is by Manuscript Sources. There is a different, i.e. There is a reason as to WHY some verses are omitted from revised versions of most translations vs. the KJV.

But I do invite you if you want, let's make it a challenge, for this is what I live for. Pick any verse from any translation. CSE members love Hermenutical/Scriptural challenges concerning Bible verse/passage translations.

17 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Don't need to puzzle over this surely??

It is too much of a puzzle for Srecko. Perhaps a difficult as that equals to that of the mystery of a Tomato being either fruit or vegetable - too mind boggling, to difficult for him to comprehend.

@Srecko Sostar On the contrary, there's a concordance for that too. Also God cannot be dead, nor can he die. God is not even a man according to the Bible, even by Job's own words. God is a spirit, as stated by the Christ. Seriously.... That is elementary, I really do not have to bring up the very thing you hate the most ----->>>>> Biblical Facts. 

Good times for I remember that inevitable struggle.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

The 'teaching' in the JW religion (1960's & 70's) used to be that the Elders would be Princes here on the Earth in the 'new 'world'. So they taught that the 144,000 would be up in heaven and the Elders would be in charge here on Earth.  It seemed not to be mentioned from then onward but I think the Elders do 'fancy themselves' as princes though.  

I am not going to get into debate with SM about Strong's etc. My point was the CCJW / JW Org / Watchtower, printed quite plainly in their Interlinear Translation that it says 'on the earth', but then they print in the NWT 'over the earth' 

So they have written both themselves. Only one can be right. If the true translation from the GREEK is 'on the earth' then that is what is should be in the NWT.  The question is, Is anyone actually being guided by God's Holy Spirit to write TRUTH ?   Is Strong's guided by Holy Spirit ?