"SPECIAL INVESTIGATION INTO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES"

[Arauna]

2 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Not to have parallel Legislative.

It is not parallel system. Secular authorities look after physical matters which can be proved in court. They do not care about spiritual wellbeing.  Elder's responsibility is to look after spiritual matters.  James says if you are spiritually sick go see the elders.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Repetitio est mater studiorum :)))

 'repetition is the mother of studying'.

 

 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

I do feel pity for @Arauna as she is so blinded by her love of the GB and the Org. 

Quote Arauna, " All aspects of this subject has been covered before in many pages and still you guys keep opening it up again and again (OCD-like) as if this is all you think about." 

BUT Arauna, that is what this topic is about, and it is about new information concerning the victims of CSA. Yes it is an ongoing situation whether in Australia, UK, America or elsewhere. It will continue to be an ongoing topic. It is not OCD as you pretend, but new information being added and then discussed and related to old information.

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

It is not parallel system. Secular authorities look after physical matters which can be proved in court. They do not care about spiritual wellbeing.  Elder's responsibility is to look after spiritual matters.  James says if you are spiritually sick go see the elders.

Then every JW should have been allowed to tell the Police and Superior Authorities from the very beginning. There should not have been any secrecy, and JWs should never have been told to leave it with the Elders. JWs should have had the FREEDOM to chose who they told without the fear of being disfelowshipped. To change the rules now is shutting the stable door after the horse has gone missing. To little toooo late. 

Quote Arauna, "Yes, there are a lot of flaws.. but then..... so did Israel have flaws back in their day - and Jehovah still used them for his purpose."

You have a love to misuse examples. The Israelites were born into that nation. They did not chose to be Israelites. JWs CHOSE to be JWs. Therefor their heart condition should be toward doing GOOD in order to serve GOD properly. The situation EARTHWIDE with Child Sexual Abuse in the CCJW proves that many JWs deliberately turn their back on God. Hundreds of Elders would have had first hand information regarding CSA, and they kept it hidden. Some of those Elders would have been and possibly still are Paedophiles. And you think God will use them ? 

@Space Merchant goes on about helping to save children from child sexual abuse. The JW organisation should announce to a congregation when there is a Paedophile in that congregation. The Elders should say the name of the paedophile so that everyone knows it. The paedophile should be reported to the Police or Superior Authorities, not kept hidden in the congregation. THAT would help keep children safe.  The silly idea that Elders will know when a person is repentant is stupid. And some Elders are even given their position in the congregation back. 

And as I'm shunned by every JW in my area, how am I supposed to tell them what i know ? I have spoken to those that contact me by phone or email, but they do not believe me, and they should not be contacting me (according to man made rules) so they will not pass on the information I give them. These ones are not local but very doubtful they will use the info' i give them. 

SM calls me a bystander, Quite funny as that is a JW expression. Any JW that does not go out preaching is called a JW Bystander here in England.  And it seems that SM expects me to go out and talk to complete strangers, even children, about CSA and Paedophiles. Um, i think I would get arrested or at least accused of something nasty. This is England and people are more unsociable or reserved, so you do not just go up and speak to young children that do not know you. 

 

 

[Space Merchant]

55 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

@Space Merchant goes on about helping to save children from child sexual abuse. The JW organisation should announce to a congregation when there is a Paedophile in that congregation. The Elders should say the name of the paedophile so that everyone knows it. The paedophile should be reported to the Police or Superior Authorities, not kept hidden in the congregation. THAT would help keep children safe.  The silly idea that Elders will know when a person is repentant is stupid. And some Elders are even given their position in the congregation back. 

Announcing does not fix the problem (as many, many examples in history points out, some examples as stated turn out badly and other times bloody), actions taken to prevent anymore forms of abuse to take place does, knowing the signs of someone who is an abuser, and or abused, granted a pedophile is deemed a threat if he acts upon his or her ill desire. An announcement, if need be, should it be made, should only take place after the pedophile who ends up abusing someone is dealt with.

Yes, the pedophile who acts upon abusing someone, the police should be notified, however, there are many variables to that granted bystander syndrome can effect people, be it they are moved to go to the police, told to go to the police and or simply encouraged to go to the police because people tend not to get highly involved, some for reasons, hence not being well equipped to handle the situation. This is liken to internal investigate action done by any institution whereas you have the well versed vs. those who are not, depending on where in the community such abuse has been taking place. It is far more complex if the abuse takes place in the household of the victim because those within the institution cannot detect it, however, the only form of detection they have is the child in question.

It is not a silly idea. Christians are to apply forgiveness of sin as the Christ have, but as stated before, abusers can exploit people in order to get to children. As pointed out in the past, abusers who are within the Jehovah's Witnesses, are, like many pedophiles who abuse children, tend to win over and exploit those within a community. They can express forgiveness to belittle people in order to access children and or that one specific victim, once the exploitation takes place. This is why in regards to helping children, you also have to know how the mind of a pedophile, which is borderline a cross between Sociopath and psychopath whereas if the pedophile is strongly wanting to enact ill action against a child and or anyone, even should they get violent, they have no remorse for their sins, thus going into the psychopathic spectrum, granted, pedophilia is indeed a disorder.

That being said, if the abuser wins over them, and or anyone else, they can easily be accepted back into a community, hence the borderline Sociopath and psychopath notion they express to commit more sin.

  

55 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

SM calls me a bystander, Quite funny as that is a JW expression. Any JW that does not go out preaching is called a JW Bystander here in England.  And it seems that SM expects me to go out and talk to complete strangers, even children, about CSA and Paedophiles. Um, i think I would get arrested or at least accused of something nasty. This is England and people are more unsociable or reserved, so you do not just go up and speak to young children that do not know you. 

 

• 4Jah2me - As for teaching children anything, my wife and I have put ourselves on 'lockdown' so no visitors and no visiting others. Being an 'old man' I don't go out much anyway so the only 'preaching' i do is online through Facebook pages, and it is surprising the good response I get. 
• Space Merchant - That being said, social media, helping children here is a plus because abusers are more active on the internet vs. the institutions, granted the subtly, i.e. YouTube, Facebook, etc. If you can preach to people, you can teach people, including children online. Granted you are on Facebook, how about taking that approach? Help the cause by spreading solutions.

Granted if you can do preaching, you can do the same in terms of the situation, raising awareness, reach one teach one, if JW children does concern you this much.

You do express the bystander syndrome when it comes to the situation in question - You know about Child Abuse, but you do no form of action to combat child abuse. At least is better than being ignorant and or oblivious, however, the notion you express does not surpass those who know about child abuse and are able to take action, regardless, be it in person and or on social media, etc.

The bystander syndrome effects everyone in mankind regardless of the situation (suicide, violence, racism, etc.)

No, I simply told you to use your platform. You said you use facebook, you can fight child abuse in that way, I even told you this, do not get it twisted. That response, you even disliked it.

That being said, you are, indeed a bystander concerning child abuse.

[Space Merchant]

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Repetitio est mater studiorum :)))

And ignorance and being misinformed drags one into ruin, and can bring others down with him. Therefore, the claim fits the bill concerning you, bird man.

The truth in that is the fact you did not know the sex abuse survivors in question, before I mentioned them by name. Another proof, as is with everything pertaining to Biblical Facts.

[Space Merchant]

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But you said exactly that way :)). And conclusion or answer why they (WTJWorg) fighting in wrong way is visible by your appendix: they are "just not equipped to handle such situations".  

Exactly the same way? As I recall, you were refuted strongly in regards to child abuse.

You should not even address the question, I even posed to you a while back:

What is the most important sign that one has to look out for regarding a potential abuser [school setting - church setting - business setting - public space]? 

For someone who speaks of child abuse but does not know this, granted you take no action whatsoever, you fit the same bystander mentality as that of @4Jah2me. The Americans have an expression, all bark, but no bite, as they say. The ones that do bite are the ones to reduce the problem compared to those who merely bark.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Wait ...and you will grow old :))

And here we see the man who laughed at helping children who cannot prove anything. Hypocrisy your claim is if it holds no merit.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You making better reasoning and have better wisdom than WTJWorg GB and Helpers. Thanks!

If you really think that, granted you laughed at helping children in the past, what have you been doing since it was addressed on how to help children? What have you been doing since 2018 to now regarding child abuse and a list of other things that has and or can commit harm to a child?

It is not about having better wisdom, it is about passing wisdom, if the Bible verses concerning safeguarding children is not clear enough, but you laughed and ignored it, not one time either.

In your own thread, I even told you, and I quote: For a guy who wants to have a say in child abuse, you tend to ignore anything pertaining to child abuse prevention in terms of educating the youth, as you have done before and as you have done now, Srecko.

It is now 2020, and still you hold to this mentality whereas many of us have been doing much work since then concerning child abuse.

[Space Merchant]

@Arauna This is the problem, Srecko speaks of equipping wisdom, however, he has not done anything since 2018 concerning child abuse.

For anyone who lacks what child abuse is and how to stop it, educating is key. Even ARC stresses this, you have people like Srecko and 4Jah2me, who does not put the application. 4Jah2me whining about the bystander syndrome when he himself expresses it greatly when all this time he could have used social media as a platform to teach people, granted, he does favor social media.

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

They are not equipped to stop wicked people from choosing to break Jehovah's law.  Even Jehovah allows people to do what they choose.... for now.  The elders can help those who repent or need help spiritually and want to serve Jehovah with an honest heart.

BUT, you guys are the first to call out JWs as cruel when they do manage to get evidence together to put someone out of the congregation.  This is about the only tool they have to protect Jehovah's people and you always use this as a weapon against the JWs  as being cruel, unjust or dictatorial or …. the list goes on.  Elders will only take this action with sufficient evidence..... if they do not have it, then caution and mercy wins. …. but you know this..... it was discussed before

Apologize Arauna, but my comment is not about "cruel elders practice of dfd". I discuss with SM and he was use this explanation in our conversation.

Now i have to continue with your direction of conversation. You said how elders are not equipped to stop wicked people (in congregation) from choosing to break JHVH law. Maybe i don't understand sentence, but free will is given and no one have right to stop anyone to "choose" what ever he/she want. For that world would need Mind Control Police. 

On other hand other people have right to stop, prevent any sort of "breaking the law" (moral or religious or secular law). System was organized in that way and every government have "secular authority" or "public servant" or police in our terminology. 

When elders learned how someone inside is danger for children or other persons in or out of JW Church, it would be normal to expect from them to have responsibility and to call those who are equipped to stop, prevent and punish wicked people.  Instead they call Legal Department who tell them to NOT REPORT case to "secular authorities". 

Well, you and SM are wrong in perspective. :)) 

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

It is not parallel system. Secular authorities look after physical matters which can be proved in court. They do not care about spiritual wellbeing.  Elder's responsibility is to look after spiritual matters.  James says if you are spiritually sick go see the elders.

I am not sure why you said how secular authorities do not care about spiritual well being of individual. Because there is many "worldly" institutions who deal with such "immaterial things" in human life. Perhaps they named that with different terminology, not using strictly religious word such is word "spiritual". Because "spiritual" have few components and connotations and it is not only religious quality. 

 

spiritual

relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And it seems that SM expects me to go out and talk to complete strangers, even children, about CSA and Paedophiles.

If Arauna and SM don't believe You, why would strangers on the street believe in this JW problem!?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

As far as using social media concerning CSA, i have warned many people about contact with Jehovah's Witnesses. I even have a FB page dedicated to such. I upload many articles straight from source. Of course i do not know the honesty or dishonesty of the articles, but I leave it up to the people that read them to make up their own mind. So I'm not exactly a bystander when it comes to warning others about the CCJW. But outside of that i see everything else as 'the world', and none of us can solve the 'world's' problems. Space Merchant sees things totally differently. That is his choice. His life and his situation is probably totally different to mine. Arauna has admitted to obeying the GB, so that is her choice. Whether she obeys blindly and does everything according to 'the book' is also her choice. Mr Harley is just a comedian and a writer looking for input for his next book, so cannot be taken seriously. I have yet to read a spiritual comment from him. Srecko seems to have a similar viewpoint to me, or in fact me to him. He asks intelligent question and gives good quotes, but he gets discredited for it all. JWI seems to be the most balanced, and he gives very good and strong answers. We must all remember that we are all different and i will quote the singer Seal :-

Different kinds of people, with different kinds of lives, Walking toward the future, with different size strides. 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

And ignorance and being misinformed drags one into ruin, and can bring others down with him. Therefore, the claim fits the bill concerning you, bird man.

I am not declare myself as Storm Trooper (from Star wars or any wars).

Yes, i am free as a Bird :)))