"SPECIAL INVESTIGATION INTO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES"

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@Equivocation  Please do not fall into the same trap as Space Merchant.  He seems to think that because the JW Org / GB write 'pretty' words about hating child abuse, that the GB and others are innocent. I notice SM compares Australia to the UK, but doesn't mention America.  I think that the GB and their Lawyers are still withholding the 20 year database of American Child Sexual Abuse victims within the JW Org.. That database must contain the names of hundreds of paedophiles in American congregations, many of them being Elders and MS and probably some men that are now higher up in the organisation. It will probably contain the names of some women too as not all paedophiles are men. 

No matter what magazines are printed congregants will still not believe that there are paedophiles in their congregations. Congregants will still trust all the Elders and MS, and Circuit Overseers etc.. And Elders do not tell the whole congregation even if there is a known paedophile in the congregation. 

Space Merchant has mentioned that some times parents abuse their own children. This is true and it has been proven in courts. But in the CCJW / JW org if a child has reported this to the Elders, the Elders do not believe the child or tells the child not to tell anyone else. It is the secrecy in the JW org that has made it possible for so many paedophiles to abuse so many children. 

[JJJ-AUSTRALIA]

Totally agreed with you 4jah4me, the society has a huge database, and no matter how much pretty words they write in their magazines or how much people (JWs) like to make excuses for, the fact is that they are still covering it and we had a taste of it here in Australia. The funny thing is that the society has an organised committee for HLC around the world and thats a proof that Jehovah God is with them (according to JWs interpretation) to uphold their man made rules of the blood doctrine but for child sex abuse they cant be bothered to have one small committee to safe guard children 😆😆😆.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

And one other thing that puzzles me is, in the ARC investigation the Australian Bethel seemed to have reports of CSA going back 50 years, but in America, where the religion started, they only have reports / database going back to 1997.  So i wonder what they did with all previous reports ? Did they destroy them ? There could have been information previously about men that have 'high positions' in the Org now. 

 

[Space Merchant]

On 6/26/2020 at 5:21 AM, 4Jah2me said:

Please do not fall into the same trap as Space Merchant.  He seems to think that because the JW Org / GB write 'pretty' words about hating child abuse, that the GB and others are innocent. I notice SM compares Australia to the UK, but doesn't mention America.  I think that the GB and their Lawyers are still withholding the 20 year database of American Child Sexual Abuse victims within the JW Org.. That database must contain the names of hundreds of paedophiles in American congregations, many of them being Elders and MS and probably some men that are now higher up in the organisation. It will probably contain the names of some women too as not all paedophiles are men. 

That is where you are blind, he pointed out those articles for people to learn about what child abuse is, and even stated some people actually apply this stuff, to which I even said the following:

On 6/25/2020 at 6:09 PM, Space Merchant said:

only a handful of your faith community reads these things, know these things and apply them, the other handful may dabble a little bit on this information, but would not think it will happen to them, their family or their church congregation, and the other handful are oblivious to all things pertaining to CSA.

Not All JWs are aware of child abuse, some of them know how to dael with the situation, others know about it, but cannot handle the situation and you have some adherents who know nothing of child abuse, in addition to that, they do not even know ARC. And no on here is claiming innocence expect you.

I am comparing the two because child abuse is far greater in those areas, this is all in statistics, of course. These areas far far worse, and the reason I bring up the UK because in regards to the situation we have with JWs in Australia, it is connected. No one is knocking that child abuse is taking place in the US, however, it is smaller in comparison to areas like the UK and other parts of the EU. This is all facts some of which still stand true today.

As for the database, we do not know, some are saying they have one, some are saying they do not, others have said they have destroyed it. We should not be playing multiple choice with something serious.

In the United States, believe it or not, when it comes to Child Abuse, women, sadly, tends to get off the hook easily, and the consequences they endure are not as great as that of men. The reason for this is because of a brazen belief pushed around in society and media, some in law have let women go because of their looks, or status regardless of the institution. Men are far worse of course. When it comes to child abusers, it is often men who take this action, and primarily, according to the FBI, the abusers tend to be Caucasian/White Males, and majority of them are within the household of the person they abuse. Another one is C.O.C.A, otherwise known as Child on Child Abuse, which is a complex situation to deal with either before the abuse takes place, or afterwards because no one would suspect a child to be an abuser, be it boy or girl, but this kind of Child Abuse is far greater in the Social Media as well as Youth Clubs, compared to institutions.

That being said, all areas are plagued with Child Abuse, however, as pointed out many times, the UK, and other EU countries, even Australia, is far worse, and pedophiles in general are in positions, or seek such positions in order to gain access to children.

Also, such things have to be tackle the smart way, otherwise there will be bloodshed, for we already had vigilant justice, assassinations, and a list of other things take place, as is, with the victim and or her friends or family being killed in the process in some cases, as is, those encouraging pedophiles to strike again. This is why child abuse must be fought the correct way.

On 6/26/2020 at 5:21 AM, 4Jah2me said:

No matter what magazines are printed congregants will still not believe that there are paedophiles in their congregations. Congregants will still trust all the Elders and MS, and Circuit Overseers etc.. And Elders do not tell the whole congregation even if there is a known paedophile in the congregation.

It is not terms of belief, it is in terms of application. What @Equivocation and I have pointed out is that some people apply these things and some do not, as is with some who are not even ware of child abuse. Do not get it twisted, perhaps read what was said.

And I have given examples in the past regarding some JWs taking action, i.e. The Swahili Jehovah's Witnesses and his church, The Arabic JW in the UK, and we also have @Equivocation as an example, a teenager who is a JW, who has been applying this information.

Again, there are a handful of JWs out there that are capable of fighting child abuse, and are equip to handle the situation, to say otherwise is hypocrisy when there is proof of this, some of which, even ExJWs also pointed out.

That being said, teaching people about child abuse and how to fight it is indeed powerful.

On 6/26/2020 at 5:21 AM, 4Jah2me said:

Space Merchant has mentioned that some times parents abuse their own children. This is true and it has been proven in courts. But in the CCJW / JW org if a child has reported this to the Elders, the Elders do not believe the child or tells the child not to tell anyone else. It is the secrecy in the JW org that has made it possible for so many paedophiles to abuse so many children. 

This is fact. Majority of child abuse mostly takes place within the household, primarily done by the Father of the house, rarely it is the Mother, however, the Mother in some cases can be an accomplice. Mothers who do child abuse do it differently, sometimes it is not directly abusing the child, but they, in this case, sell off their child to be abused, something of which is very common if the sexes were reversed. This does not have to be proven in court, all it takes is investigative work internally and or by law enforcement.

Again, there are some within institutions who are not well equipped and or not equipped at all to handle child abuse. This is why, as I pointed out to even the JWs, it can be problematic if you do not train these people as well. There are examples of the a JW congregant, possibly an elder, in their church who has taken some form of against, again we can go back to ARC's case study on how the victim found out about child abuse by means of a publication from JWs.

On 6/26/2020 at 8:55 AM, 4Jah2me said:

And one other thing that puzzles me is, in the ARC investigation the Australian Bethel seemed to have reports of CSA going back 50 years, but in America, where the religion started, they only have reports / database going back to 1997.  So i wonder what they did with all previous reports ? Did they destroy them ? There could have been information previously about men that have 'high positions' in the Org now. 

Perhaps, but according to some people, they say it has been destroyed, and or not existing at all. Moreover, such a thing needs to be tackled in a smart way, otherwise there will not just be abuse on people's hands, but blood, after all, this is the United States, whereas we have several examples.

That being said, as pointed out, people are speculating and or coming with their own assumptions.

[Space Merchant]

On 6/26/2020 at 5:59 AM, JJJ-AUSTRALIA said:

Totally agreed with you 4jah4me, the society has a huge database, and no matter how much pretty words they write in their magazines or how much people (JWs) like to make excuses for, the fact is that they are still covering it and we had a taste of it here in Australia. The funny thing is that the society has an organised committee for HLC around the world and thats a proof that Jehovah God is with them (according to JWs interpretation) to uphold their man made rules of the blood doctrine but for child sex abuse they cant be bothered to have one small committee to safe guard children 😆😆😆.

The thing is, there is speculation of it even existing, whereas other say otherwise, therefore, this database notion is muddled.

As for the publication cited by @Equivocation some JWs actually do apply it, however, as pointed out, some do not know what they are doing whereas some JWs are plain oblivious to child abuse. I would not say excuses, more like caught off guard, mainly when they do not know anything pertaining to child abuse. If we can go back to ARC, they have provided solutions to not just the institutions, but the general public, likewise to the JWs, the people of Australia fit that same mentality, as is with everyone else, therefore, they harbor that bystander syndrome like mentality, which is no different from oblivious and or ill-equipped JWs vs. everyone else who is equipped to fight child abuse.

Well Australia, like other EU countries is far worse when it comes to child abuse, a bit out of control be it in an institution or not. You lot are up there compared to other non-EU countries. So it is no surprise that pedophiles can access areas where there is children, for the majority are not that well equipped to handle child abuse as a whole.

The whole Blood Doctrine concept is to abstain from blood, and it is carried over from the Mosaic Law into the New Law, so it is understandable as to why they have this view. Likewise, JWs are not the only people who hold this view, other Christians as well, and to some extent, Jews and those who are following Islam. Moreover, you even have cultures that apply abstaining from blood for a great number of reasons, some, who are not religious, hold this view for reasons of superstition. Perhaps learn more about the law itself, there is a reason behind that.

Again, they would need to be trained on the matter. A solution that even CSA services even point out, and some information provided by ARC. Even you yourself can train yourself on child abuse and help out those who are actually fighting it the wrong way and not be as a person who is sitting on the sidelines just calling CSA without taking action - therefore, I agree with ARC, services, etc that provide the same example, even the Bible when it comes to passing wisdom and teaching children and others.

That being said, as for News Corp, 3 points made by them have been proven false.... As stated, the focus now is only The Redress and ARC, for the accusations are looking more false day by day, meanwhile, you have the Australia police who are said to be blamed here, when some of them who are equipped to fight CSA, took action, not all of them of course, so the former JW cannot simply blame them in this regard because there are some in the law who are capable.

[JW Insider]

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

3 points made by them have been proven false

I am not sure which 3 points you have in mind (that were made by News Corp). Can you be specific?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Quote @Space Merchant  As for the database, we do not know, some are saying they have one, some are saying they do not, others have said they have destroyed it. We should not be playing multiple choice with something serious

If the American CCJW Bethel has destroyed the CSA / Paedophile 20 year Database it would prove they are not serving Almighty God. It would prove that they are deliberately hiding Paedophiles in the CCJW / Watchtower Soc'.  It would prove they have things to hide and that they should not be trusted at all. 

However, i do not believe they have destroyed it. And I believe that Jesus Christ will have that database used in American courts, as part of the cleaning of the CCJW.  Christ will use the Superior Authorities of the 'world' to clean out the things of the 'world' from the CCJW. 

Almighty God used armies of this 'world' to punish the Israelites. And did He use or just allow the Romans to destroy Jerusalem ? Either way it got the job done.  Do you think God and Christ have stopped working toward humans ? Ye people of little faith. 

 

[Equivocation]

@4Jah2me I don't think Spacey is blinding anyone especially the fact is that due to a lot of the things he says covering child sex abuse, he so speaks of his experience, i.e. helping children to learn what child sex abuse is and how to see the signs and all that is a major plus👍🏾. So what he is saying is 💯 true and it is not just with Jehovah's Witnesses, but people in general, all over the world.
We can take you for example - You practically mention child sex abuse all the time, but you haven't taken action whatsoever, well, from looking at the conversation between you and spacey, you ignore the very point he made, then you went on to say that someone who has experience with helping the general public know about child sex abuse, knows nothing at all, although false, but that is what you pressed. Spacey is the opposite, he not only speaks on child sex abuse, but he has done something about it by teaching not just children, but adults about child sex abuse and his actions actually caused positive growth.

So in short, both of you speak about it, but only one of you, in this example, spacey, has and continues to take literal action on child sex abuse in general, heck, he even challenged me and JTR on this a while back.

So as for the publications, like what was pointed out, people who read them understand what child abuse is and understand the signs of both the abuser and someone who has been abused. Even outside of the publications, this is something that is practically, especially in different cultures where the bond between a parent or guardian and child us strong. Likewise with us Jehovah's Witnesses, like the general public, some of us know and take action, others know but don't take any action because they don't know how to execute a plan against the problem, and then you have those that clearly have no idea of anything at all.

By the by, our elders at our hall are capable of dealing with the issue, so to throw all elders into the same basket is kinda silly.

Don't know why you voted down something that is true 🤔 unless you have something to say that would be much appreciated, 4jah2me.

[Equivocation]

@Space Merchant The thing is not everyone puts things into application. Like the example from a while back you mentioned to JTR and I about teaching child about strangers.

Application is a plus, there's no doubt in that and concerning child sex abuse is a problem, I cannot speak for others, but helping out does play a role in reducing it. I don't understand as to why 4jah2me gets aggy about something that is positive. Also people ARE like that when it comes to critical issues, even child sex abuse.

Those publications are just random examples, but I am sure people can find more information on jw.org, if not there, other available information found on the internet with a simple Google Search.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@Equivocation  You are over generalising. I didn't say SM had no idea about child abuse, i said he has no idea about how it has been dealt with in the CCJW.  I also said that he would actually have to be a JW to know how things are handled in the Org. 

I was a JW for 50 years so I do have a bit of knowledge about the Org. Plus I have some knowledge that I should not have, from people that should not tell me. As for Elders, they do as they are told from men higher up in the Org. 

Now as for SM going out into the 'world' and helping children, that is his choice. When i was a JW I was taught to be 'no part of the world' and not to mix with 'worldly' people... Hence I never had any 'worldly' friends, so never knew personally any 'worldly' situations. You have to know people well to be able to talk to them deeply about such personal things. SM is not a JW so his life is different. He seems to share his time between spiritual and physical things. JWs in England spend their time on spiritual matters and occasionally helping brothers and sisters, but not much of helping anyone outside the Org. As I am no longer a JW I have lost all those people that i had contact with. I won't call them friends as they obviously weren't, because they would not have shunned me if they were friends. So, due to this Covid-19 I stay home. I am lucky to have a lovely wife and a good son so I'm not alone. But as for going out into the world, no thank you. 

[Equivocation]

@4Jah2me Well amigo, if you scroll up, the discussion between you guys is clear. Going back to JTR, he is well aware, me even, of how people like him take child abuse in general, counting everything.

That is not true. Be it you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses or not, especially if you are someone who has been teaching children to fight against child sex abuse, you'd know. Child sex abuse is really a big problem around the world, this includes The United States of America where there is a type of culture that promotes pedophile like behavior and over sexualize children. I don't know how old you are, but in my case, I see it all the time in social media and the idea being promoted and embraced. Not sure if you are into social media tho.

Well that is your experience. Like what Spacey said, you will have some Jehovah's Witnesses that are not aware or even trained on child sex abuse so if a case does come up, they don't actually know how to handle it compared to those that do, and in my case, my congregation is a blessing because we not only worship Jehovah together, but we do everything we can to pass on lessons to be applied, likewise with the Latino culture. So our Elders and your elders, although the same faith, differ from each other when it comes to handling things. As for your experience, it isn't mine and if it was an negative one, sorry then, but I don't know how a lot of the people in your country do things.

Well from the day he challenged JTR and me, it was all Bible based when it comes to helping children, only about 5% was from protection services on helping children. Helping children does not mean going into the world, you really have to double check what being part of the world means. Anyways One thing he did point out is the abuser often target specific children, points on safeguarding was brought up, in short, knowing how to fight this problem you have to be knowledgeable. I figure this is the same case with the number of child abuse cases in Australia. Also What I said to you was not to disrespect you, but it is the common way people tend to me regarding problems, be it the gross sin we are talking about right this moment or other things like violence, confrontations, etc. For instance, if you, me, tom, spacey, and the others dealt with a child abuse situation, I can guarantee you that the outcome would be different for each of us, mainly if the abuser is extremely stuble with his actions unless you are aware of the signs such as constant gifting, grooming, etc of the child, the practice of keeping secrets between the abused and the abuser.

Well that depends, there are some Jehovah's Witnesses in your country that does help out. We don't ignore our neighbors, we do what we can to help them. But like I said, I cannot speak for everyone, and what Spacey brought up, it applies to them too because there's no telling how someone would respond to a situation and how yo handle it verses not knowing anything at all, so in a sense, a fight, freeze or flight type situation. So child sex abuse, some people, even some Jehovah's Witnesses, can deal with the problem in a correct manner whereas others can't, whether they know about abuse or not. What Spacey is pressing is Scripture based wisdom, which is indeed a weapon against child abuse. In my case, there are people who know about child abuse but are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and they pass their wisdom to, others, if they want to know how to fight it, I simply give them information from a publication. It is up to the person on how they want to use the information and if they truly want to or are fighting to reduce child abuse in every pocket on the globe.

Well disfellowshipment does cut congregation ties, as for your family, that is a blessing, it is always a blessing to have people close to you. Well I don't know them, however, if you knew the Jehovah's Witnesses I knew, they would take the time to understand where you are coming from, granted, some Jehovah's Witnesses cannot do this verses those that can.

Well I am talking you lol, however, I can't really provide you with much other than what is being talked about, I'm a kid compared to all of guys here. You have every right to speak your mind about child abuse, however, like what Spacey pointed out you can do whatever you can to help out as well as confront child abuse in the right way. Looking at your comments, I don't know what happened at the Hall you were in but you are packing a jar of anger that stretches even outside of child abuse.

I only talk about child abuse when the subject is brought up, but since I am well aware of it and understand the signs and all that stuff as well as comfort people, that is what I can do, that is all I can do.

Errr.. What do you mean going out into the world? 🤔. To be no part of the world means to not participate in anything that involving Babylon, we have to maintain neutrality as to not take sides, i.e. Republican/Democrats and a list of other things. I don't see how you are getting thing idea, can you elaborate and be more clear about it please? Thanks.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@Equivocation  Firstly you seem to assume that i was disfellowshipped. You are  WRONG. 

I quote you "Well disfellowshipment does cut congregation ties, "     BUT because the GB are so wicked they do not allow the Elders to say that a person has LEFT THE ORGANISATION.  Therefore everyone presumes a person was disfellowshipped, and because of that no one will talk to that person. However I do have contacts still in the Org that know the truth and will still talk to me by telephone or email. 

Quote "Errr.. What do you mean going out into the world? "

I don't go out to mix with people. i don't go looking for 'friends' in the world. I don't drink alcohol so don't go to pubs / drinking houses. I don't go to festivals or night clubs. I live in a small town and don't go into the city very often. I live a simple but still interesting life. I'm quite happy walking in the local woodlands or on the beach if it's empty. But England is having a lot of trouble right now, so i tend to stay home most days. I'm 70 and retired, but still lively and keep busy. Even at home i can find lots to do. When the virus is gone, if ever, then i will go out more, but I still won't go looking to meet people. Maybe you cannot understand that some people are quite happy to be alone or just with the ones they love. Even if I get into the 'New World' (very doubtful) I would still prefer peace and quiet and being alone. 

And here in England the CCJW / JW Org teach the congregations not to have any friends outside of the Organisation. I think it is done to keep people in the Org. Some people want to leave but are frightened to leave because they know they will lose everyone. Their whole world of contacts will be gone if they leave. That is a threat that the GB make and it has no scriptural backing. Those that want to leave are PIMO Physically in, Mentally out. They just use the Org as a social club. My conscience wouldn't let me do that. I had reason to leave so i left.