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TrueTomHarley

The King of the North Must Stay on Script—it Will Look Awfully Silly if He is Bolivia

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That May 2020 Watchtower really simplified how we can look at the Daniel prophesy of the kings of the north and south. I appreciate it for that reason.

I think it can be likened to the ingredients of a sandwich disappearing. When that happens, what’s the point of keeping track of the two slices of bread that enclose it? Such is the case when the weeds swallow up the wheat and the Master says ‘Don’t worry about it—we’ll sort it out at the harvest.’ (Matthew 13:24-30) If the covenant people disappear, why concern oneself about who is the king of the north and south? They vanish, too. This way, you don’t have to trace some tortuous lineage through the centuries that you can get your head around after a fashion, but the moment you turn away it disappears, like your grasp of relativity. 

When the covenant people reappear during the harvest—well, we know that they are to be between a rock and a hard place. So look for a rock and a hard place. What could be easier than that? When the harvest season arrives, what two parties during the World Wars hate each other’s guts, and also give the covenant people grief for the same reason, that of neutrality? Easy. This new streamlined method works to everyone’s advantage except for Queen Zenobia (my favorite Bible character, second only to Obi Wan Kenobia), and 

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The second of the study articles made it very clear: “For a government to fill the role of the king of the north or the king of the south, it must do three things: (1) interact directly with God’s people, (2) show by its actions that it is an enemy of Jehovah and his people, and (3) compete with the rival king.”

I noted Trump’s campaign words in 

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, “Wouldn’t it be nice if we actually got along with Russia?” and how, were that to happen, it would take the prophesy off-script—the two are notsupposed to get along. Almost immediately outside forces in the form of the media intervened to ensure that the two kings will not get along—they are to stay on script. Almost from the instant he said it, a Russian collusion narrative emerged to ensure the two kings would remain at loggerheads.

In the course of two weeks, the verses of Daniel 11:25-45 were considered at the meeting. A crash course for anyone not in the know: It is king-of-the-north Germany that opposes the king of the south during both world wars and opposes the covenant people, treating them harshly. With the Allied victory ending WWII, the Soviet Union and later Russia takes over the role of the northern king—pushing & shoving the king of the south and also treating the covenant people harshly, lately to be seen in the banning of their organization and publications, confiscation of their property, and arrests leading to the imprisonment of many. 

A nice touch, I thought, was the “little help” rendered at 11:34. Might this be prophetic of the lull in opposition to kingdom preaching from the fall of the Soviet Union to renewed all-out attack on Jehovah’s people in 2017? During this lull, it was not even clear just who the king of the north was. (Davey-the-kid, always quick with a joke, told me it was Bolivia) Jehovah’s Witnesses were the last of all faiths to be legally recognized in 1991 (fall of the Soviet Union) and the first of all faiths (and so far, only) to suffer ban in 2017.

It occurs to me that if the king of the north started being nice to our people he would louse up stipulation 2 of the prophesy, that he must “show by its actions that it is an enemy of Jehovah and his people.” Why doesn’t he do that? There is no better way to discredit Jehovah’s Witnesses than to spectacularly mess up their take on a prophesy. Then we would have to revert back to Davey-the-kid, say it is Bolivia, and look ridiculous. 

Well, maybe will happen that way. But it doesn’t seem likely. If Trump couldn’t derail the prophesy, Putin can’t either. It is probably one of those situations of nations being drawn as with hooks in their jaws. They are too determined in a course of their own seeming choice to do any differently. 

From paragraph 13 and 14 of the second week’s study: 

“A prophecy recorded by Ezekiel gives some insight into what may happen during the last days of the king of the north and the king of the south....it appears that we can expect the following developments....That symbolic hailstorm may takethe form... It could be that this message provokes Gog of Magog into attacking God’s people with the intention of wiping them off the earth.” [italics mine]

Joe at the Kingdom Hall, who can always be depended upon for perceptive comments, chimed in about the “wiggle words” that I’ve italicized—it may....it could be...it appears that. Hardly dogmatic, is it? Sure to be missed by Tom Pearlsandswine, that brother who is known for putting the dog into dogmatic! But the words simply indicate that, while we know the final destination, we do not know the precise route to be taken, and the foregoing only indicates the best educated guess at present. 

Of course, “educated” in this context means educated in the Bible study of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Despite my “crash course” a few paragraph above, I’ve made no effort to thoroughly explain anything—only the barest outline is offered. It is a little bit like how I have lately been reading Thirty Years that Shook Physics, a 1966 book by George Gamow that stood on my Dad’s bookshelf for 50 years and that I rescued from the estate sale. The preface speaks of “Dr. Gamow’s artistic gift as well as his ability to expand science in the layman’s language.” But as I peruse page after page stuffed with arcane mathematical formulas, I say, “I think they are overestimating his ‘gift.’” It’s not nothing. I’d sooner have him around than Wolfgang Pauli. But he is not exactly Mr. Rogers, and neither have I tried to be with the details of the north and south king.

As to what the final fulfillment will be, and what route it will take, 1 Peter 1:12 says: “Into these very things, angels are desiring to peer.” Are you going to tell them to straighten up and get back to work? No. You won’t stop them. But I like the current sense of couching things that only appear likely in wiggle words. It is a little like how we don’t do anti-types anymore, unless such anti-type is clearly spelled out in the Bible—Jesus’ identification with the Passover lamb, for example. It is enough to say, “this reminds me of that.” What! Is someone going to come along later and say it doesn’t?

 

 

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14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Wouldn’t it be nice if we actually got along with Russia?”

They hate our guts..... And I think personally - living here in Georgia where Russia is stealing part of the country every night by moving the fence - that they will eventually re-occupy parts of the old soviet union to fulfill the part in Daniel speaking of the "flooding". Daniel 11: from verse 36 to end.  After a major international incident like re-occupying old territories... and China occupying areas in the south china seas...… warlike actions...… the UN and other countries will step in to provide the "peace" before all-out supersonic war breaks out...  it is easier to control populations in other ways.

Russia has made alliances with all the renegade countries - they sell weapons to Iran, (Pakistan Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan etc) friends with Syria, economic relations with China.  They are extending their "ports" al over the world just like china has been doing.  They have a port in Syria and now are in Libya - fighting the proxy war no doubt to get access to the port to have greater access to the Mediterranean sea.

Things are moving ahead slowly to the situation called Armageddon.

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

During this lull, it was not even clear just who the king of the north was.

Yea, both Russia and China believe that their  first revolutions would have worked better if there was enough wealth to go around for everyone. (they ignore how they murdered so many farmers and food providers). So neo-communism, as I call it, got a little facelift. Capitalism was used by the central governments (they own most of the assets) to increase individual wealth (but mind-you not too much - the state must remain the supreme power) so everyone buys into the idea that communism is a fabulous government system...…. then the clamps came down. Religion of the state.  Luckily the orthodox church has been a good vehicle for religion of the state so they are the only religions not receiving flack but in China - very little persona choices are allowed regarding religion.

So king of the north did receive a bit of a capitalistic facelift in the hands of the central government - all powerful.  The oligarchs are working together with the digitech super-capitalists of the world to govern a new world where science will rule supreme and bring the fourth technical/industrial revolution.  NO place for God in these plans.  Putin is now president for life and so his plans are going ahead.  From their perspective the world really looks hunky-dory. They are getting all that they can wish for because USA is drastically weakening itself from within and the petro-dollar has already fallen.  Iron and clay  (the extreme humanist philosophy and part of the Roman law that is still left in society) is not mixing and acrimony is openly displayed everywhere.

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On 7/24/2020 at 7:21 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

The second of the study articles made it very clear: “For a government to fill the role of the king of the north or the king of the south, it must do three things: (1) interact directly with God’s people, (2) show by its actions that it is an enemy of Jehovah and his people, and (3) compete with the rival king.”

(1)   - interact directly with God’s people  

“Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not.” w02 8/1 p. 13-14 

 

(2)   - show by its actions that it is an enemy of Jehovah and his people

 ( God’s “people” - Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 5:9,10)

 

 "Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders! w02 8/1 p. 13-14 

“In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study.”  

 

“Worse still, if they received special treatment, anointed Christians might find it difficult to remain humble.”    w16 January p. 24

 

And who does receive “special treatment” over God’s chosen priesthood? 

 

 “Why should the elders be shown double  honorAll in the congregation are to be shown honor, but hardworking elders especially so w86 6/1 pp. 20-25 

 

“The beast was allowed to speak arrogant and insulting things. It was given authority to act for 42 months. It opened its mouth to insult God, to insult His name and His tent—those who are living in heaven.”  Rev 13:5,6

 What is God’s “tent”?  It is where God’s spirit resides – in the hearts of the anointed priesthood: 

“Don’t ·you [you all; C the verb is plural] know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you [C just as God’s presence filled the tabernacle; Ex. 40:34–38]?

If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person, because God’s temple is holy ·and you are that temple [or and you are holy; L which is what you are].” 1 Cor 3:16,17 

 

(3)   compete with the rival king.

Who is king over the anointed?  Is it the governing body, or is it Jesus Christ?  Apparently, the elders have more power over the anointed as seen in the above statements, than what Jesus Christ has.  If that power is challenged, the anointed one – anyone – is disfellowshipped – SHUNNED – and considered dead.  Rev 13:15  Since the anointed are members of the Body of Christ, and the elder body readily judges them as they wish, WHO is competing with the rival king, Jesus Christ, who is Head of his Body?  Eph 1:22; 1 Cor 12:12; Col 2:10

 There are no “sacrifices” of praise and truth, made by the anointed priesthood. (1 Pet 2:5 The elder body is in charge of that, of offering idolatrous sacrifices to a god of fortresses. Dan 11:38   

“Yes, [this horn] magnified itself, even [matching itself] against the Prince of the host [of heaven]; and from Him the continual [burnt offering] was taken away and the place of [God’s] sanctuary was cast down and profaned.” Dan 8:11

Spiritual food offered by a false prophet is regulated, to come only from their lips.  Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:16,17 

The “king of the north” is among you, as the “man of lawlessness” sitting/ruling  in God’s Temple.  The elder body, who are exalted over God’s priesthood, is the locust army of both Joel 2 and Revelation 9.  (2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2)

 “But when you see the [

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]abomination of desolation

“I.e. the detestable one who desecrates the temple. See note Matt 24:15. 

 standing [in the temple sanctuary] where it ought not to be (let the reader understand) then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.” Mark 13:17

You have been deceived. 

"2 Now in regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to meet Him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be quickly unsettled or alarmed either by a [so-called prophetic revelation of a] spirit or a message or a letter [alleged to be] from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] come. 

3 Let no one in any way deceive or entrap you, for that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first [that is, the great rebellion, the abandonment of the faith by professed Christians], and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction [the Antichrist, the one who is destined to be destroyed], 4 who opposes and exalts himself [so proudly and so insolently] above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he [actually enters and] takes his seat in the temple of God, publicly proclaiming that he himself is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I was telling you these things? "  2 Thess 2:1-5

The elder body has 'taken its seat' as God's priesthood - who ARE the Temple of God. 

If I was an elder, I would remove myself from the organization, now. (2 Thess 2:8; Rev 16:10)

 

 

 

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