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Jehovah's Witnesses demand 25 million from the state - Sweden


Srecko Sostar

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7 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

This statement is very telling in that you live in a very small world and have never been inside another church. I remember

What I remember is Ronald J Sider’s book ‘The Scandal of the Evangelical Conscience—Why are Christians Living Just Like the Rest of the World.’

After reviewing dozens of verses on conduct, he says “if Paul is even close to being right on what it means to be a Christian, these verses ought to drive us to our knees in repentance, and then determination to reform.

He is an evangelical leader with suggestions for reform. Of course, they are of an organizational nature. And, of course, JWs are already doing them, and yes, they do resolve the problems he details.

I wrote several posts about this

1 hour ago, Witness said:

To the WT organization, money carries more clout than Holy Spirit.  

The reason that people organize is so they can get more things done, and get them done effectively—an obvious plus when it comes to gathering, teaching, and shepherding a worldwide congregation.

The reason that people oppose such organization is that they do not want such things done. It is no more complicated than that.

And the reason the Christian organization applies for money that is legally owed it is....do I really have to explain this?

 

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Well? Of course. The only verb that has probably been added is “demand.” Change it to “asserted that the consequences of the wrong classification should be addressed” and one could not expect anything

What I remember is Ronald J Sider’s book ‘The Scandal of the Evangelical Conscience—Why are Christians Living Just Like the Rest of the World.’ After reviewing dozens of verses on conduct, he say

No, you don’t have to explain anything; although you’ve just cemented the fact that no Holy Spirit is needed to run the WT.  It only needs people.  And money.  Just like all the other “worldly” religi

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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:
3 hours ago, Witness said:

To the WT organization, money carries more clout than Holy Spirit.  

The reason that people organize is so they can get more things done, and get them done effectively—an obvious plus when it comes to gathering, teaching, and shepherding a worldwide congregation.

The reason that people oppose such organization is that they do not want such things done. It is no more complicated than that.

And the reason the Christian organization applies for money that is legally owed it is....do I really have to explain this?

No, you don’t have to explain anything; although you’ve just cemented the fact that no Holy Spirit is needed to run the WT.  It only needs people.  And money.  Just like all the other “worldly” religious organizations, right?

 

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5 hours ago, Arauna said:

It is part of the "unrighteous" riches we can use for Jehovah's work and to help brothers when they are hit by natural or other disasters.

But not to pay compensation to VICTIMS of Child Sexual Abuse in the CCJW.  Oh why are you people so blind !

Jesus makes it so clear that true Christians should let themselves be wronged regarding material things, not make demands on governments for compensation, then refuse to pay compensation to VICTIMS that they have wronged. 

If you cannot see the hypocrisy here it is because you are being blinded by the Devil. 

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And Tom's comment about JWs are already doing them, and yes, they do resolve the problems he details.

This is so laughable it's not even worth a serious reply. In your dreams Tom :) 

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7 hours ago, César Chávez said:

It was okay for Catholics and Protestants to use general population taxes for their churches, but now, Watchtower Nordic haters have a problem with the Watchtower applying for grants. 2 Corinthians 11:8-9

I would like to understand something. Does JW members pay "church tax" in Sweden, Norway or in any other country? How many JWs declare themselves to be a member of a JW church during a census in a country, so that "church taxes" could be levied on that basis? How many countries in the world collect "church taxes"? Is tax money from a believer who is a Catholic given only to the Catholic Church or part of the money is given to other churches? Would JW members agree to have part of their “church tax” be used to support some other “Christian or non-Christian” church? Is it the logic of paying a “church tax”, that members of a particular church support only their own church through the money thus collected, or the state funds all religions? If JW members will pay "church tax" for their own church, will GB be reduced or stop asking for voluntary contributions from their brothers an sisters?

About 2 Corinthians 11:8-9. "I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you".

I think that you misunderstand wording "robbed other churches". Other churches, Paul was talking, are not "worldly churches" of opposite denominations to his church. He speak about "first church" in various places. So, he "robbed" own, fellow, poor or rich, brothers and sisters.  

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I am just so very very happy that Jesus and the Apostles were nothing like the GB and the CCJW is now. 

Oh how the mighty have fallen, the GB and it's helpers. Money grabbing from anywhere but refusing to pay compensation to Victims of Child Sexual Abuse.  What a very sick GB  and Organisation it is. 

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On 8/28/2020 at 11:19 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

I suppose that "unrighteous wealth" should be achieved by working with one's own hands, "by the sweat of your brow", and not by suing  in the courts. :))

 

7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

 

Oh how the mighty have fallen, the GB and it's helpers. Money grabbing from anywhere but refusing to pay compensation to Victims of Child Sexual Abuse.  What a very sick GB  and Organisation it is. 

Why is all of this okay with JWs? 

7 For we have brought nothing into the world, so that neither can we bring anything out. 8 But if we have food and clothing, with these things we will be content. 9 But those who want to be rich fall into temptation and a trap and many foolish and harmful desires, which plunge those people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all evil, by which some, because they desire it, have gone astray from the faith and have pierced themselves with many pains.

But you, O man of God, flee from these things, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patient endurance, gentleness."

Command those who are rich in this present age not to be proud and not to put their hope in the uncertainty of riches, but in God, who provides us all things richly for enjoyment, 18 to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous, sharing freely, 19 storing up for themselves a good foundation for the future, in order that they may take hold of what is truly life."  (1 Tim 6)

The foundation we store up for the future has nothing to do with money! It has nothing to do with building huge complex communities, or procuring power over others.  (Matt 6:20; Phil 3:18,19)

From one month, maybe from one day, to the next, the WT pursues riches, to pursue its desires;  and JWs fork it over. 

This isn't how one follows in the footsteps of Christ.  

 

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On 8/28/2020 at 10:30 PM, Arauna said:

It is part of the "unrighteous" riches we can use for Jehovah's work and to help brothers when they are hit by natural or other disasters.

Again, I am not singling you out, but just your words, "unrighteous riches".  I wonder, do these riches become "righteous" if used for "Jehovah's organization"?  

I also wonder why the WT even refers to the use of “unrighteous riches”, since the parable reveals that the “manager” who is “shrewd” with “unrighteous riches” is called a “dishonest manager”.    (Luke 16:1-13)

 “And the Master praised the dishonest manager, because he had acted shrewdly. For the sons of this age are shrewder than the sons of light, with regard to their own generation.”  (Luke 16:8)

Do we compare the GB to the “manager” in this parable, or one of the “sons of light”?  They are the GB, after all, managers of an organization.  And, they have also placed themselves above all anointed ones, as stewards/managers over God’s household.  Yet they reject any spiritual “riches”/food from God's priests, that they “owe” the Master (Luke 16:5); which certainly would not be considered “unrighteous” if they were to listen and obey Christ.   

It appears that the GB prefer “unrighteous riches”, both in the terms of money, and in the terms of their own selfish lust for power over Jesus’ servants. They have, without Christ’s approval canceled out any spiritual dept the anointed each must “pay” to the Master upon his return. (Luke 17:10)  How? By teaching that a “faithful steward” over God’s household,  is the only source of spiritual food.   You see?  The anointed are not allowed to offer their personal spiritual food, which is their obligation to the Master.  Instead, they are beaten back from doing so, by the presence of the elder body who have the authority to keep them quiet and apart from one another – which benefits who?   JWs?  Not in the least.  They have no clue what “truth” may have been revealed by the cohesiveness of the anointed Body working together under Christ and his Spirit.   (1 John 2:27; 1 Cor 12:11,25)

Cancelling out the debt the anointed have toward their Master benefits those in power, both the GB and the elders.   It preserves their authority over all God’s priests, and every JW.   (1 Cor 4:8; Mark 10:42-44)

The “sons of light” though, would be focused only on the Kingdom, and not on the riches and burdens of “organization”, or the riches of holding power over another.   (1 Thess 5:5)   Their only motivation would be on heavenly things, on doing God’s will in the manner of “sacrifices of praise”.    You see, the sons of light are not as “shrewd” as the dishonest manager, who knows all about “unrighteous riches”.

“If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.”  Col 3:1,2 

That’s pretty hard for the GB to accomplish when they are immersed with “things on the earth”, chasing after money, muscling their way to the forefront  to receive the same riches another religious organization may receive; and then squandering it away instead of helping victims of abuse, abuse resulting from poor “management”.  They challenge the court systems, they challenge the victims.  They are so far from practicing God’s righteousness, it is sickening. 

Because the Master praises the dishonest man for his use of “unrighteous riches”, does this mean he’s safe with God? 

“And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by means of unrighteous riches, so that when it runs out they will welcome you into the eternal dwellings.”

 If the GB were ever to humble themselves before their anointed brothers and sisters, and “make friends” with the Body of Christ by allowing them to bond under Christ;

by allowing the anointed to be independent and free to listen to their Master;

to offer their priestly sacrifices as expected of them; (1 Pet 2:5,9)

by realizing they are all equal before God, and treating them as such;

then those who are “sons of light” would then recognize what a true honest steward would do for the spiritual house of God.  (Eph 2:20-22) And under those circumstances, just maybe, if the GB were to lose all riches, both monetary and that of recognition of power and authority, the “sons of light”, sons of the Kingdom, would receive them into the “eternal dwellings”. 

But these men do not have a humble bone in their body.  Jesus gave us parables that address the situation with the anointed today, because he knew what God’s priests would face in the last days, under the rule of a wicked steward.  (Matt 24:48-51)

 

 

https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2015/01/is-wicked-steward-real.html

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- google translation, part of Croatian Law on the Legal Status of Religious Communities

I do not know the status of the JW church in Croatia on this issue.

Article 17

(1) A religious community acquires funds:

- income from its property,

- from the profits of companies which hold shares or stakes,

- performing charitable, educational, cultural, artistic or other general useful activities, and selling religious publications or souvenirs,

- from the provision of religious services,

- from inheritance and gifts,

- from voluntary contributions (in money, services or works) of natural and legal persons.

(2) Religious communities shall be granted funds from the state budget, the annual amount of which shall be determined depending on the type and significance of its religious buildings (cultural, historical, artistic, etc.), and on the activities of the religious community in educational, social and health care. and the cultural field and its contribution to national culture, as well as the humanitarian and community service of the religious community.

(3) Dedicated support may be granted to a religious community from the state budget and the budget of local self-government units and the budget of regional self-government units, especially for the construction and renovation of religious community facilities.

 

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32 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Croatian

Croatia is catholic.  Since some buildings are very old and may have historic value, I guess they receive funds to maintain this.  JW's do not buy buildings for their value. We do not take income from the properties for tourism etc. We do not open health care clinics etc. as shown below in the Article.

 

38 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

activities of the religious community in educational, social and health care.

 

34 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

depending on the type and significance of its religious buildings (cultural, historical, artistic, etc.),

 

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